BlueSmurf Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I flew back into Chiang Rai yesterday and the anual burning nightmare has began I see. I could see at least five fires in the fields as we came into land on my side of the plane. Large plumes of smoke rising. If only this was nipped in the bud and an example made by large fines or a short stay in Doi Hang Remand Prison then maybe The Rai would have a chance of cleaner air this dry season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krobert6 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 So, what is the alternative to burning, is it cost effective? Who will suffer if a fire ban was widely implemented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBR250 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 There are at least some alternatives to some forms of burning, such as composting on a large scale for those leaves burned by the side of the road and in forest areas). Re-ploughing rice and corn stubble could also be possible options to explore. More pertinent than asking who will suffer if burning is stopped is asking how many will suffer if it isn't? I would think that health costs for northern residents and the negative economic impact on tourism alone would be enough to ensure a stop to the annual northern pollution. I recall that last year there was a massive (and costly) increase in hospitalization for respiratory problems in the north during burning season. Probably many times those hospitalised stayed ill at home. Not working, not going to school. It is hard to comprehend that the same problem re-surfaces year after year while Thai authorities merely wring their hands and make sympathetic sounds and empty promises. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuukKoeyKorat Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I think this is probably stubble burning after the rice harvest, rather than slash and burn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krobert6 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 There are at least some alternatives to some forms of burning, such as composting on a large scale for those leaves burned by the side of the road and in forest areas). Re-ploughing rice and corn stubble could also be possible options to explore. More pertinent than asking who will suffer if burning is stopped is asking how many will suffer if it isn't? I would think that health costs for northern residents and the negative economic impact on tourism alone would be enough to ensure a stop to the annual northern pollution. I recall that last year there was a massive (and costly) increase in hospitalization for respiratory problems in the north during burning season. Probably many times those hospitalised stayed ill at home. Not working, not going to school. It is hard to comprehend that the same problem re-surfaces year after year while Thai authorities merely wring their hands and make sympathetic sounds and empty promises. But what are the 'COST EFFECTIVE ' ones that the farmers will adopt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldBattles Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The god awful durning has started in Doi Hang in Chiang Rai. You may rest assured that if farangs were doing it we would be reported to the authorities. You can also count on them doing nothing as in the past. My house smells like it has been on fire from the terrible stench. Get ready more is coming until April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krobert6 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) The god awful durning has started in Doi Hang in Chiang Rai. You may rest assured that if farangs were doing it we would be reported to the authorities. You can also count on them doing nothing as in the past. My house smells like it has been on fire from the terrible stench. Get ready more is coming until April. I must be missing something. When you moved to CR you were aware of the burning ? It is a recent thing ? The farmers do not do it for entertainment, do they? Edited November 13, 2012 by krobert6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The god awful durning has started in Doi Hang in Chiang Rai. You may rest assured that if farangs were doing it we would be reported to the authorities. You can also count on them doing nothing as in the past. My house smells like it has been on fire from the terrible stench. Get ready more is coming until April. Not a good time to have dinner there then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldBattles Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Like all others, I have had live with the stench and burning eyes and stuffy nose for the past 7 years. I know that the long term farangs here don't mind it. My dinning sala is free of the smoke for now. The breeze is cool and the food is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Like all others, I have had live with the stench and burning eyes and stuffy nose for the past 7 years. I know that the long term farangs here don't mind it. My dinning sala is free of the smoke for now. The breeze is cool and the food is good. Sadly I do. Once it starts I cannot move outside my aircon room. A Hatari air filter helps a lot. Hope it is less than last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgriffith Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Not much anyone can do about it, in spite of all the well intentioned campaigns by farang, solemn pronouncements by gov't ministers, etc. Why get upset about things that we have no control over? If this year's burning turns out to be as bad as last year, I'll pack up the car and head south as far as needed to get away. If it has to be a month or two or more...oh well, that is the price I pay for enjoying North Thailand most of the year.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSmurf Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 I am just hoping for rain on a regular basis as we had two years ago across the region and north of us.. Will be going south for the whole of March.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pomchop Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Not much anyone can do about it, in spite of all the well intentioned campaigns by farang, solemn pronouncements by gov't ministers, etc. Why get upset about things that we have no control over? If this year's burning turns out to be as bad as last year, I'll pack up the car and head south as far as needed to get away. If it has to be a month or two or more...oh well, that is the price I pay for enjoying North Thailand most of the year.... No problems for me thus far and i live in the doi hang area. They have not yet harvested the rice near me and even after they do not burn the stubble but plow it under. At my house the smoke usually doesn't really start until around mid feb and peaks out in march...which is why i always go somewhere else for a nice holiday around first of march. For me the weather and air quality in nov, dec, jan is very nice....the biggest problem is not burning the rice stubble but burning all the underbrush at the end of the dry season. BUT i have been told by Thai friends that they do this because if they let it build up for several years and then it catches fire it would quickly get really out of control. Anyway...i do know for a fact that my opinion about burning will change nothing. It's like driving in CR. They were driving this way long before i arrived and they will be driving this way long after i am gone....so why get all upset over it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gary Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Not much anyone can do about it, in spite of all the well intentioned campaigns by farang, solemn pronouncements by gov't ministers, etc. Why get upset about things that we have no control over? If this year's burning turns out to be as bad as last year, I'll pack up the car and head south as far as needed to get away. If it has to be a month or two or more...oh well, that is the price I pay for enjoying North Thailand most of the year.... Thats one of the reasons why we bought our house on Koh Chang. Escape the pollution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonaldBattles Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The health care bill and damage to health and lost working time has to be a big problem for the law breakers and innocent victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Petruchio Posted November 15, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2012 I can't help myself, dang me. There being nothing that has forced any farang to come to Northern Thailand to live, it must feel good for some to sit off and be sanctimonious about something that has been going on here and in other parts of Southeast Asia for centuries, especially in light of the fact that we are all just voluntarily squatting here in their country on some form of tourist visa or other, and as non-citizens have no practical standing in law or otherwise, except as it suits them to allow. We don't have to like the burning, but we do have to accept it for as long as the Thais do if we choose to live here, and without overly audible criticism and complaint reaching their ears. I know I'll get slanged now, so let's have it! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krobert6 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) I can't help myself, dang me. There being nothing that has forced any farang to come to Northern Thailand to live, it must feel good for some to sit off and be sanctimonious about something that has been going on here and in other parts of Southeast Asia for centuries, especially in light of the fact that we are all just voluntarily squatting here in their country on some form of tourist visa or other, and as non-citizens have no practical standing in law or otherwise, except as it suits them to allow. We don't have to like the burning, but we do have to accept it for as long as the Thais do if we choose to live here, and without overly audible criticism and complaint reaching their ears. I know I'll get slanged now, so let's have it! No slanging from me - I am in total agrement with you Edited November 15, 2012 by krobert6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBR250 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 No slanging from me either. I merely disagree. I might be squatting here, but it is not just my selfish interests that motivate me (along with many Thais I know) to complain about the pollution. Like another poster, I escape it by taking a holiday. Problem solved for me, but there are thousands of others - particularly poorer Thais, who cannot escape the pollution. And I do suspect there are economically viable means of reducing a proportion of the burning. One earlier poster noted that rice stubble in Doi Hang is ploughed back in, not burnt. Better for the soil, and may reduce fertilizer/pesticide costs. Could be an option for many other areas (although not on steep mountain hillsides). One Thai Uni has a research project teaching hill people how to inoculate trees with mushroom spores so they can easily harvest the expensive fungi without burning to clear the ground. There are ways.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 If you have the right type of soil (good drainage) you can plow the straw back in and it will biodegrade into useful compost. But if you have poor drainage as in the clay soils found so often in LOS, and/or water standing in the off-season, you get anaerobic activity which produces byproducts which will damage the next crop. Burning also kills pests and diseases in addition to weeds, and disposes of straw. It's complicated. California in the US is in this quandary. Some rice farmers can plow in and some can't depending on soil type and drainage. California has outlawed burning and the straw is piling up like mountains along Hwy 99 just N. of Sacramento. (State Capital.) Many are working on a solution; some trying to use it with molasses as cattle feed, some trying to ferment it and make alcohol, some trying to gasify it and generate electricity... Nothing yet is economically viable but I'm betting with that much resource, an answer will come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krobert6 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 If you have the right type of soil (good drainage) you can plow the straw back in and it will biodegrade into useful compost. But if you have poor drainage as in the clay soils found so often in LOS, and/or water standing in the off-season, you get anaerobic activity which produces byproducts which will damage the next crop. Burning also kills pests and diseases in addition to weeds, and disposes of straw. It's complicated. California in the US is in this quandary. Some rice farmers can plow in and some can't depending on soil type and drainage. California has outlawed burning and the straw is piling up like mountains along Hwy 99 just N. of Sacramento. (State Capital.) Many are working on a solution; some trying to use it with molasses as cattle feed, some trying to ferment it and make alcohol, some trying to gasify it and generate electricity... Nothing yet is economically viable but I'm betting with that much resource, an answer will come. Sound like a very educated answer , thinks are not always as easy as they seem, or as we would like them to be . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 If you have the right type of soil (good drainage) you can plow the straw back in and it will biodegrade into useful compost. But if you have poor drainage as in the clay soils found so often in LOS, and/or water standing in the off-season, you get anaerobic activity which produces byproducts which will damage the next crop. Burning also kills pests and diseases in addition to weeds, and disposes of straw. It's complicated. California in the US is in this quandary. Some rice farmers can plow in and some can't depending on soil type and drainage. California has outlawed burning and the straw is piling up like mountains along Hwy 99 just N. of Sacramento. (State Capital.) Many are working on a solution; some trying to use it with molasses as cattle feed, some trying to ferment it and make alcohol, some trying to gasify it and generate electricity... Nothing yet is economically viable but I'm betting with that much resource, an answer will come. Sound like a very educated answer , thinks are not always as easy as they seem, or as we would like them to be . Thanks. I have a distant relative who is a rice farmer in California. I forgot to mention that ash is a very good fertilizer for rice too. That huge delta area along the Sacramento River from N. of Sacramento and as the river heads to the coast (roughly toward San Francisco) is all rice farming. They produce a little more than 1/3 the rice that LOS does, but make the US a net exporter of rice because it isn't a staple US. If it were a profitable commodity, rice could be grown in lots of places in the US. As it is it's grown only where the conditions dictate it, which is exactly what happens in LOS. It's now almost a loser crop because rice prices suck, there's no commercial value in the straw as there is in, say, corn stalks... LOS has a huge problem right now because the Thai government went into price support and bought a few mountains of rice at ridiculous prices thinking that if they kept it off the market prices would rise but they fell. Now the Thai government is sitting on mega-tons of rice which is spoiling and there will be another crop behind it. I "think" the government paid about twice what it's worth and when/if they soon unload it they will further depress the market. I'm sure everyone knows that LOS is the world's #1 exporter of rice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmar92 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 If you have the right type of soil (good drainage) you can plow the straw back in and it will biodegrade into useful compost. But if you have poor drainage as in the clay soils found so often in LOS, and/or water standing in the off-season, you get anaerobic activity which produces byproducts which will damage the next crop. Burning also kills pests and diseases in addition to weeds, and disposes of straw. It's complicated. California in the US is in this quandary. Some rice farmers can plow in and some can't depending on soil type and drainage. California has outlawed burning and the straw is piling up like mountains along Hwy 99 just N. of Sacramento. (State Capital.) Many are working on a solution; some trying to use it with molasses as cattle feed, some trying to ferment it and make alcohol, some trying to gasify it and generate electricity... Nothing yet is economically viable but I'm betting with that much resource, an answer will come. Sound like a very educated answer , thinks are not always as easy as they seem, or as we would like them to be . Thanks. I have a distant relative who is a rice farmer in California. I forgot to mention that ash is a very good fertilizer for rice too. That huge delta area along the Sacramento River from N. of Sacramento and as the river heads to the coast (roughly toward San Francisco) is all rice farming. They produce a little more than 1/3 the rice that LOS does, but make the US a net exporter of rice because it isn't a staple US. If it were a profitable commodity, rice could be grown in lots of places in the US. As it is it's grown only where the conditions dictate it, which is exactly what happens in LOS. It's now almost a loser crop because rice prices suck, there's no commercial value in the straw as there is in, say, corn stalks... LOS has a huge problem right now because the Thai government went into price support and bought a few mountains of rice at ridiculous prices thinking that if they kept it off the market prices would rise but they fell. Now the Thai government is sitting on mega-tons of rice which is spoiling and there will be another crop behind it. I "think" the government paid about twice what it's worth and when/if they soon unload it they will further depress the market. I'm sure everyone knows that LOS is the world's #1 exporter of rice. Actually for the year 2012 India is the largest rice exporter at 9.75 million tonnes exported followed by Vietnam at 7 million tonnes and Thailand ranks at 3 with 6.5 million tonnes exported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidelines Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 A melody (of sorts).. The hills are alight with the sound of...crackling fires. All I want for Christmas is...a stop to the burning. On the first day of Christmas, my neighbor gave to me...a smoke filled house. Yesterday all the smog seemed so far away, now it's here to stay...until April I guess. Non Je ne regrette rien?...about moving here so suppose it is time...J'ai allure le feu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Come on Santa light my fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Think yourself lucky you are not back in Australia sceaudugenga. There it is really a case of Smoke Gets In Your Eyes. Makes our little problems seem nothing. I hope it clears there soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gary Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Think yourself lucky you are not back in Australia sceaudugenga. There it is really a case of Smoke Gets In Your Eyes. Makes our little problems seem nothing. I hope it clears there soon. Been back on Koh Chang for 1 week and there is smoke everywhere. Sitting on my balcony I cant see the mainland and thats a first. Driving down we noticed burning from North to South so its a bloody disease thats spreading. No burning on the Island but as I said smoke every where. See you all back in Chiangrai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidelines Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) In celebration of burning season, the TAT should initiate a photo contest for the best "Smokescape" in the 'Rai. An early entry... Edited January 23, 2013 by sidelines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villagefarang Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 In celebration of burning season, the TAT should initiate a photo contest for the best "Smokescape" in the 'Rai. An early entry... How about some smoke and fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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