Am I A Cheap Charlie If I Don't Tip?

[rgs2001uk]

And l would wager that those who tip big are thought of as plonkers by a grateful recipient. ................

I don't think a Thai you give a few hundred baht tip to is going to look at you as a "plonker" since they already assume you have much more money than them since they certainly can't afford to get on a plane and travel the world and obviously you can. They are more likely to think of you as black hearted if you fail to tip for the same reason I have just listed.

It's also very much part of Thai culture for those with money to be given the opportunity to show how good hearted they are by spending it (ie. paying for the meal, drinks, a wedding, etc...). And that has nothing to do with being a foreigner.. Than is amongst Thais.

of course I read that in a book called "Thailand Fever" talking about the concept of "naam jai" so maybe I got it all wrong.

Never read the book so cant comment on its content.

One thing I know, there is no need for money to change hands for naam jai to occur.

Naam jai is basically doing good unto others without expecting anything in return.

I wouldnt consider giving a tip for a service performed to be naam jai, in fact its more likely to be called jai dee or the person referred to as a puu dee.

[Jayman]

And l would wager that those who tip big are thought of as plonkers by a grateful recipient. ................

I don't think a Thai you give a few hundred baht tip to is going to look at you as a "plonker" since they already assume you have much more money than them since they certainly can't afford to get on a plane and travel the world and obviously you can. They are more likely to think of you as black hearted if you fail to tip for the same reason I have just listed.

It's also very much part of Thai culture for those with money to be given the opportunity to show how good hearted they are by spending it (ie. paying for the meal, drinks, a wedding, etc...). And that has nothing to do with being a foreigner.. Than is amongst Thais.

of course I read that in a book called "Thailand Fever" talking about the concept of "naam jai" so maybe I got it all wrong.

Never read the book so cant comment on its content.

One thing I know, there is no need for money to change hands for naam jai to occur.

Naam jai is basically doing good unto others without expecting anything in return.

I wouldnt consider giving a tip for a service performed to be naam jai, in fact its more likely to be called jai dee or the person referred to as a puu dee.

Doing good onto others (money or not) is an expression of naam jai.

Jai dee and naam jai are not mutually exclusive.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jayman

[pbay]

Tipping is for the birds

Tipping in Thailand seems to be a growth industry where they expect a tip even though they have provided no good service,one thing that put me off tipping there was when I came across a tip tray on the reception desk of hotels,never seen that in any other country.Thais see tipping as a right when they should see it as an extra for good service.

Edited November 29, 2012 by pbay

[poanoi]

I think they see it as free money from random suckers really

[taff33]

If I was in a job that paid me 100b and just down the road there was a same job that paid me 200b what do you think I should do?,may be if the poor under paid workers (no matter what job they are doing) move to the higher paid job, the owner of the lower paid job might start to think may be I should start paying more to my staff,and not let their wages be reimbursed by tips.And by this I mean not for the owner to rake off to much proffit.

[up-country_sinclair]

Personally, I never give less than 100 Baht for any service.

You tip 100 baht for a 60 baht plate of rice or noodles?

You tip 100 baht for a 50 baht beer?

Personally, I think that's crazy.

Edited November 29, 2012 by up-country_sinclair

[transam]

I remember one of our esteemed members who comes to LOS for six months a year, to the same place and eats mainly in the same restaurants, they know him as a long time customer BUT, they charge him MORE than the advertised menu price cos he is a farang. He had no problem with it, THEY knew after they got away with it once that he is a permanent target (tip) .

[tropo]

Why even get into a discussion about business profitability and wages. Let them work it out. If they can't turn a profit they'll close - you've got to ask yourself why are there so many massage places in town?

If you feel compelled to tip, then tip. I would wager that the majority of their customers don't tip due to the number of Middle Eastern and Indian tourists in town these days.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy.

Edited November 29, 2012 by tropo

[Johnsen]

Does the OP have an opinion on this matter.. What do you think of your own actions?? Cheap Charlie or not!! We know this is what you do, how would you label yourself.

[rgs2001uk]

Why even get into a discussion about business profitability and wages. Let them work it out. If they can't turn a profit they'll close - you've got to ask yourself why are there so many massage places in town?

If you feel compelled to tip, then tip. I would wager that the majority of their customers don't tip due to the number of Middle Eastern and Indian tourists in town these days.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy

Personally I think the only people you are keeping happy are the cheap charlie employers who refuse to pay their staff a decent wage, why the heck should they when thay have farangs subsidising for them.

An amazing amount of arrogance and ignorance on this thread.

Please tell me how the first time visitor from, India, China, Russia or The Middle East who sees a sign that says, massage 100 baht is expected to know these girls are being ripped off by their employers, and why the heck should he, and in their customs you dont give tips, why should they be expected to follow farang protcol?

I am not exploiting these girls by not giving a tip, the people doing the exploiting are the employers, and the people perputating this cycle are the farangs who frequent these places.

[Jayman]

Why even get into a discussion about business profitability and wages. Let them work it out. If they can't turn a profit they'll close - you've got to ask yourself why are there so many massage places in town?

If you feel compelled to tip, then tip. I would wager that the majority of their customers don't tip due to the number of Middle Eastern and Indian tourists in town these days.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy

Personally I think the only people you are keeping happy are the cheap charlie employers who refuse to pay their staff a decent wage, why the heck should they when thay have farangs subsidising for them.

An amazing amount of arrogance and ignorance on this thread.

Please tell me how the first time visitor from, India, China, Russia or The Middle East who sees a sign that says, massage 100 baht is expected to know these girls are being ripped off by their employers, and why the heck should he, and in their customs you dont give tips, why should they be expected to follow farang protcol?

I am not exploiting these girls by not giving a tip, the people doing the exploiting are the employers, and the people perputating this cycle are the farangs who frequent these places.

you mean the foreigners that frequent these places and don't leave a tip.

Also, I know for certain that at many places the Russians do tip. As do the Indians. Perhaps you'd feel in better company if they didn't but I have seen them leave and they do.

How do ppl know they should tip? Well, they open their eyes and watch how other customers that are leaving walk up to the person who was massaging them and hand them a tip. It's not like ppl do it in secret. It's completely out there in the open.

But you keep thinking whatever it is that makes you feel better about your unwillingness to tip for a massage.

[rgs2001uk]

Why even get into a discussion about business profitability and wages. Let them work it out. If they can't turn a profit they'll close - you've got to ask yourself why are there so many massage places in town?

If you feel compelled to tip, then tip. I would wager that the majority of their customers don't tip due to the number of Middle Eastern and Indian tourists in town these days.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy

Personally I think the only people you are keeping happy are the cheap charlie employers who refuse to pay their staff a decent wage, why the heck should they when thay have farangs subsidising for them.

An amazing amount of arrogance and ignorance on this thread.

Please tell me how the first time visitor from, India, China, Russia or The Middle East who sees a sign that says, massage 100 baht is expected to know these girls are being ripped off by their employers, and why the heck should he, and in their customs you dont give tips, why should they be expected to follow farang protcol?

I am not exploiting these girls by not giving a tip, the people doing the exploiting are the employers, and the people perputating this cycle are the farangs who frequent these places.

you mean the foreigners that frequent these places and don't leave a tip.

Also, I know for certain that at many places the Russians do tip. As do the Indians. Perhaps you'd feel in better company if they didn't but I have seen them leave and they do.

How do ppl know they should tip? Well, they open their eyes and watch how other customers that are leaving walk up to the person who was massaging them and hand them a tip. It's not like ppl do it in secret. It's completely out there in the open.

But you keep thinking whatever it is that makes you feel better about your unwillingness to tip for a massage.

But you keep thinking whatever it is that makes you feel better about your unwillingness to tip for a massage

Where did I say i dont tip?

Just as a matter of interest, suppose I go to a 350 baht per hour massage centre,

am I expected to tip, and if so how much (yeah up to you)?

I dont frequent these 100 baht places, for one reason only, the girls in them for the most part are useless, in fact they are worse than useless, they can cause you serious problems if you have an injury.

I prefer to go to a place with qualified (yeah I know) staff that know what they are doing, have experience in treating people with lower back pain, and are sensible enough to start out slow and soft and build up to my threshold.

Anyway I thought the thread was about tipping, not cheap charlie massage parlours.

BTW, try tipping less than 250 baht to your caddy after a round of golf.

Nowhere on this thread have I said I dont tip, but I object to people taking the piss.

Another poster mentioned about a tip box (<deleted>) only in Pattaya, I have never seen one upcountry in any 7-11.

[ThaiBob]

If I was in a job that paid me 100b and just down the road there was a same job that paid me 200b what do you think I should do?,may be if the poor under paid workers (no matter what job they are doing) move to the higher paid job, the owner of the lower paid job might start to think may be I should start paying more to my staff,and not let their wages be reimbursed by tips.And by this I mean not for the owner to rake off to much proffit.

One problem with your logic is there is no higher paid job down the road.

[rgs2001uk]

If I was in a job that paid me 100b and just down the road there was a same job that paid me 200b what do you think I should do?,may be if the poor under paid workers (no matter what job they are doing) move to the higher paid job, the owner of the lower paid job might start to think may be I should start paying more to my staff,and not let their wages be reimbursed by tips.And by this I mean not for the owner to rake off to much proffit.

One problem with your logic is there is no higher paid job down the road.

Take it you dont read Thai.

When I am sat at a red light I regularly read adverts on the back of, Farmhouse bread trucks, Unif tea trucks advertising starting wages of anywhere from 10-15k per month.

The next time you are in Central have a look at the job adverts, plenty of jobs available.

The problem with these P6 girls is they have no education, qualifiactions or experience, as I mentioned previously, they are unemployable even in a regular massage parlour, never mind a 7-11 paying about 30 baht per hour.

[ThaiBob]

If I was in a job that paid me 100b and just down the road there was a same job that paid me 200b what do you think I should do?,may be if the poor under paid workers (no matter what job they are doing) move to the higher paid job, the owner of the lower paid job might start to think may be I should start paying more to my staff,and not let their wages be reimbursed by tips.And by this I mean not for the owner to rake off to much proffit.

One problem with your logic is there is no higher paid job down the road.

Take it you dont read Thai.

When I am sat at a red light I regularly read adverts on the back of, Farmhouse bread trucks, Unif tea trucks advertising starting wages of anywhere from 10-15k per month.

The next time you are in Central have a look at the job adverts, plenty of jobs available.

The problem with these P6 girls is they have no education, qualifiactions or experience, as I mentioned previously, they are unemployable even in a regular massage parlour, never mind a 7-11 paying about 30 baht per hour.

I responded to this statement ".....If I was in a job that paid me 100b and just down the road there was a same job that paid me 200b what do you think I should do?...."

Do you really think a massage girl would be hired as a truck driver?

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^^^

Do you really think a massage girl would be hired as a truck driver?

Where did I say employed as a truck driver?

Take it you dont read Thai, as I mentioned various positions available.

Dont let your ignorance of Thai language or ignorance of the facts cloud your judgement.

[tropo]

Do you really think a massage girl would be hired as a truck driver?

Maybe. She would have strong arms.

[ThaiBob]

^^^^^^^

Do you really think a massage girl would be hired as a truck driver?

Where did I say employed as a truck driver?

Take it you dont read Thai, as I mentioned various positions available.

Dont let your ignorance of Thai language or ignorance of the facts cloud your judgement.

Oh, I understand, "adverts on the back of, Farmhouse bread trucks, Unif tea trucks" are not advertising for truck drivers, and your point could have been made by simply stating there are other job opportunities readily available. Your ability to read Thai adds nothing to the discussion as we already know employers advertise their job opportunities in Thai.

"Dont let your ignorance of Thai language or ignorance of the facts cloud your judgement."....not sure what you mean or see the relevance of that statement. I have taught English to Thais, speak and read basic Thai and I do not consider myself ignorant of Thai language. All this has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

[ThaiBob]

Do you really think a massage girl would be hired as a truck driver?

Maybe. She would have strong arms.

Yes, strong arms and hands, and not to mention a good work ethic. Long days, 6 days a week, no benefits and she knows too when to shut up and not make problems for the boss about the girls from Lao or Cambodia (who 7 days a week and for less money).

[Barack]

Why even get into a discussion about business profitability and wages. Let them work it out. If they can't turn a profit they'll close - you've got to ask yourself why are there so many massage places in town?

If you feel compelled to tip, then tip. I would wager that the majority of their customers don't tip due to the number of Middle Eastern and Indian tourists in town these days.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy.

If you're a big tipper you're helping out all these cheap charlies by keeping the staff happy

Personally I think the only people you are keeping happy are the cheap charlie employers who refuse to pay their staff a decent wage, why the heck should they when thay have farangs subsidising for them.

An amazing amount of arrogance and ignorance on this thread.

Please tell me how the first time visitor from, India, China, Russia or The Middle East who sees a sign that says, massage 100 baht is expected to know these girls are being ripped off by their employers, and why the heck should he, and in their customs you dont give tips, why should they be expected to follow farang protcol?

I am not exploiting these girls by not giving a tip, the people doing the exploiting are the employers, and the people perputating this cycle are the farangs who frequent these places.

you mean the foreigners that frequent these places and don't leave a tip.

Also, I know for certain that at many places the Russians do tip. As do the Indians. Perhaps you'd feel in better company if they didn't but I have seen them leave and they do.

How do ppl know they should tip? Well, they open their eyes and watch how other customers that are leaving walk up to the person who was massaging them and hand them a tip. It's not like ppl do it in secret. It's completely out there in the open.

But you keep thinking whatever it is that makes you feel better about your unwillingness to tip for a massage.

But you keep thinking whatever it is that makes you feel better about your unwillingness to tip for a massage

Where did I say i dont tip?

Just as a matter of interest, suppose I go to a 350 baht per hour massage centre,

am I expected to tip, and if so how much (yeah up to you)?

I dont frequent these 100 baht places, for one reason only, the girls in them for the most part are useless, in fact they are worse than useless, they can cause you serious problems if you have an injury.

I prefer to go to a place with qualified (yeah I know) staff that know what they are doing, have experience in treating people with lower back pain, and are sensible enough to start out slow and soft and build up to my threshold.

Anyway I thought the thread was about tipping, not cheap charlie massage parlours.

BTW, try tipping less than 250 baht to your caddy after a round of golf.

Nowhere on this thread have I said I dont tip, but I object to people taking the piss.

Another poster mentioned about a tip box (<deleted>) only in Pattaya, I have never seen one upcountry in any 7-11.

Ok, you tip. Out of curiosity, hypothetically, what would you tip the 99 baht massage girl, the caddy and your restaurant server?

[poanoi]

The massage girl would get either 1 or 50 baht, depending how badly i want her next time.

I would make a deal with the caddy beforehand, how much his/her wage will be,

unless the caddy is included in the fee.

Obviously i won't tip a waitress, lest she does something not related to bringing me the beer/food i'm expected to pay.

Think about it for a second: You order a beer, lest that beer is handed to you,

there isnt anything to pay for, so they have to bring that beer, or i didnt get what i ordered,

and i get me beer elsewhere.

Edited November 30, 2012 by poanoi

[tropo]

Ok, you tip. Out of curiosity, hypothetically, what would you tip the 99 baht massage girl, the caddy and your restaurant server?

I recently tipped a blind lady 50 pesos for an 80 peso 30 minute massage. I wanted to tip more but my wife wouldn't let me.

Restaurant - usually 20 baht (average cheap Thai restaurants around Pattaya).

Don't play golf.

If I start playing golf, how much would you recommend.

Edited November 30, 2012 by tropo

[ThaiBob]

"Ok, you tip. Out of curiosity, hypothetically, what would you tip the 99 baht massage girl, the caddy and your restaurant server?" ....I think that question was specifically directed to rgs2001uk.

[rgs2001uk]

Ok, you tip. Out of curiosity, hypothetically, what would you tip the 99 baht massage girl, the caddy and your restaurant server?

I dont use these cheapo massage places, as I mentioned earlier most of these girls are clueless.

I mentioned earlier I sometimes use a place in On Nut that charges 100 baht per hour, if I get a 1 or 2 hour massage i give a 100 baht tip.

I also have a woman that comes to the house (if you get a good one hang on to her), very skilled at what she does, more of a chiropractor, she charges 250 baht per hour, I get a 2 hour session and give her 700 baht, I also pay her taxi fare to and from the house, its about 100 baht each way, I give her 300 baht for the taxi, so in total a 2 hour massage costs me 1,000 baht, worth every penny.

Golf caddy, depends on course, day of the week, company I am with and how good she was,but always at least 250 baht tip.

Restaurants, depends where I eat and who I am with, sometimes someone else pays for everything, sometimes we operate on whats known as American share (the total bill is divided by the number of people irrespective of who ate and drank what), sometimes I pay for everything.

I also make sure I give the money to the girl in her hand, this ensures she gets the tip and not the owner.

For ++ places, someone should tell the staff the tip is already included in the price, if the service has been good I will tip,again going directly to the sever in her hand.

[MJCM]

It seems that your a Cheap Charlie if you refuse to pay 200 THB for a Big C Taxi for a short distance, and if you ask their excuse for these amounts, they say "Petrol Prices", but if you say Petrol is still at 29.xx for a long time. The shut up and walk away.

I bet next time they will ask you money for helping you loading stuff in to their car.

[Jayman]

It seems that your a Cheap Charlie if you refuse to pay 200 THB for a Big C Taxi for a short distance, and if you ask their excuse for these amounts, they say "Petrol Prices", but if you say Petrol is still at 29.xx for a long time. The shut up and walk away.

I bet next time they will ask you money for helping you loading stuff in to their car.

not sure what time period you are speaking from when you discuss petrol prices.

91 regular is 43.75 and 91 gasohol is 35.38 thb/liter

to compare.. that same petrol in Jan 2012 was

91 regular 35.77 and 91 gasohol was 32.74 thb/liiter

Edited November 30, 2012 by Jayman

[Naam]

It seems that your a Cheap Charlie if you refuse to pay 200 THB for a Big C Taxi for a short distance, and if you ask their excuse for these amounts, they say "Petrol Prices", but if you say Petrol is still at 29.xx for a long time. The shut up and walk away.

I bet next time they will ask you money for helping you loading stuff in to their car.

not sure what time period you are speaking from when you discuss petrol prices.

91 regular is 43.75 and 91 gasohol is 35.38 thb/liter

to compare.. that same petrol in Jan 2012 was

91 regular 35.77 and 91 gasohol was 32.74 thb/liiter

why spoil a nice taxi bashing with boring facts?

[MJCM]

It seems that your a Cheap Charlie if you refuse to pay 200 THB for a Big C Taxi for a short distance, and if you ask their excuse for these amounts, they say "Petrol Prices", but if you say Petrol is still at 29.xx for a long time. The shut up and walk away.

I bet next time they will ask you money for helping you loading stuff in to their car.

not sure what time period you are speaking from when you discuss petrol prices.

91 regular is 43.75 and 91 gasohol is 35.38 thb/liter

to compare.. that same petrol in Jan 2012 was

91 regular 35.77 and 91 gasohol was 32.74 thb/liiter

Sorry but in this context Petrol was Diesel as this is what these guys use. Or LPG or NGV

Edited November 30, 2012 by MJCM

[ThaiBob]

Not sure of the relevance of petrol prices. You can't be CC since no service was accepted and performed, and no tipping issues.

[ThaiBob]

Ok, you tip. Out of curiosity, hypothetically, what would you tip the 99 baht massage girl, the caddy and your restaurant server?

I dont use these cheapo massage places, as I mentioned earlier most of these girls are clueless.

I mentioned earlier I sometimes use a place in On Nut that charges 100 baht per hour, if I get a 1 or 2 hour massage i give a 100 baht tip.

I also have a woman that comes to the house (if you get a good one hang on to her), very skilled at what she does, more of a chiropractor, she charges 250 baht per hour, I get a 2 hour session and give her 700 baht, I also pay her taxi fare to and from the house, its about 100 baht each way, I give her 300 baht for the taxi, so in total a 2 hour massage costs me 1,000 baht, worth every penny.

Golf caddy, depends on course, day of the week, company I am with and how good she was,but always at least 250 baht tip.

Restaurants, depends where I eat and who I am with, sometimes someone else pays for everything, sometimes we operate on whats known as American share (the total bill is divided by the number of people irrespective of who ate and drank what), sometimes I pay for everything.

I also make sure I give the money to the girl in her hand, this ensures she gets the tip and not the owner.

For ++ places, someone should tell the staff the tip is already included in the price, if the service has been good I will tip,again going directly to the sever in her hand.

Well, I sure had you pegged wrong. I will now have to re-evaluate the meaning of life.