Thailand In Crisis: At Least One Person Becomes H I V-Positive Every Hour

[sunshine51]

Seems like everybody knows the consequences here but very few

know about simple & available protective measures and how to get

that word out to people in a firm, easy to understand and authorative

manner.

[cup-O-coffee]

More bullshit!

Why?

Firstly, because this is a very serious claim to make, and I do not take it lightly because there are victims out there who suffer and crap like this does not make the truth any easier to get to, and that is why I say bullshit.

Secondly, and generally speaking... I say this because this is Thailand; the land where white lies... any lies are acceptable to push an agenda. This is the land where falsehoods and deceit rank number one in the minds of those in power in order to avoid responsibility and duty to the people, including those who bequeth on their honor that they are there for the people. This is the land where incompetence and lack of skill and outright ignorance are only overshadowed by stiff-necked stubbornness and misplaced pride. This is the land where all statistic gathering is handed to the lowest rung on the ladder, and that which is gleaned is purported by the top rung to be actual fact, when the top rung has no idea what it is spouting about. This is the land where those in power are continually breaking their own laws and subsequently running roughshod over those same laws (again) in an effort to vindicate themselves from any loss of face or guilt. This is a land where it is a known fact that a native of this land will say or do anything if they think it will benefit them, or create an "out" for them to be able to avoid shame or guilt. This is the land where violence is the first reaction when getting their back into a corner, simply because logic, reasoning, self-restraint, self-will (among others) are non-existent in their minds.

I'm not finished. I am making a point.

This is the land where contracts are broken and agreements and guarantees are not met, because everyone knows there is always an out; so it makes no difference what is said or what is written because it takes a person to back up words and writing. The persons responsible are non-entities, They do not exist. Those shadows who haunt our consciences, and whom we understand to be persons of authority, are nothing more than imagined entities whom we compell ourselves to be what they are, when in fact they are glorified myths; walking titles with no substance below the heading. Their job is to ensure they have their job the next day, and not to fulfill the powers of their office, which is endemic to their personal desires and the culture which nourishes and grooms these behaviors and thoughts.

And with that in mind, I know this is the land where all the above can be nicely swept under the rug, or erased, or denied, or twisted and fed mis-information or digressed until ineffective neutrality, and no one will step forward to demand the truth unless it is deceptively orchastrated between the two apparent parties of opposition; all for our entertainment. There's more; oh yes there is, but I have made my point for this matter.

---------------------------------

HIV / AIDS may be what it is, and I have my opinion about that; but what I am on about here is that we read what the Thais (The Public Health Ministry) has taken and interpreted in their fashion and presented to the general public as fact. I have seen those government offices, and I see how they are ran. I have met Thais, throughout my long stay here, who work for the government; and I have dealt with Thais in many government offices. I have seen their systems and the way they run things, and one thing I know for sure; they are the hub of the Six (6) P's (Piss Poor Planning Promotes Poor Performance).

Do I believe what they say? Not one dam_n bit. There's a truth to this, but this is not it.

That is my response to this (in my opinion) very serious claim.

[aguy30]

rayw: As a ratio of a Thai population of about 60 million, that is then 60,000,000 / 4380 or a 1 in 13698 chance of any one person catching it each year (and remember the population changes with births and deaths each year too). Hardly an epidemic surely.

Your thinking is bogus in that when you are playing in a concentrated area like Bangkok, Pattaya, Phucket or Chiang Mai the odds change dramatically. That is where many of the infected people are plying their trade and those are the ones you are likely to have contact with.

You are a wealth of bad info!

Edited November 29, 2012 by aguy30

[lemoncake]

How about free desexing for humans?'that will fix it.

Seriously though what do they expect when thousands have kids by the age of 15-16.

Clearly something is not working

PS. Perhaps a law punishing those who knowingly keep having unprotected sex would help. Few months ago was a good show/interview with a prostitute who openly admitted being HIV and continue to work and insist on no condom. Her reason was, someone made her sick so now she want to give to others

Edited November 29, 2012 by lemoncake

[aguy30]

One thing is for sure, I won't be asking catweasle and camo007 any questions when I am looking for good info.

[dighambara]

Sexual education, anyone?

Not if you believe the Cultural Ministry - there is no sex in Thailand, everyone is virgin until death...LOL

Reminds me of the claptrap over itchy ears - a bunch of stupid people saying it was UN-Thai - ROTFLMAO

[tinom]

Pornthep said he would launch a campaign urging young girls to carry at least two condoms in their bag so they are always prepared.

I thought girls would be considered prostitutes if carrying condoms and get arrested...

Hub of Non-sense

[Travelman868]

Sounds just like another of those hastily typed down horror news newspapers try to reel in readers with... A good idea here for everyone participating in the discussion is to think outside the box and check what AIDS really is and how it was "designed"... People not die of aids, but because of a tempered with test that is more or less "strict" in counting particular cells in the blood mix but does absolutely NOT detect any virus as there is none. Third world and also many southeast asian countries have the tests with the lowest treshold - kicking in very early. If the text says "positive", then the doctors subscribe medicine that not prolongs life of the patient for up to ten years as they say, but actually kills them by slowly suffocating the metabolism and destroying vital organs. In the past these "nice" doctors subscribed AZT to the poor victims of the AIDS scam - AZT is a trash medication - a waste of the cancer research. It was abandoned because it kills the patient within 10 years. Open you eyes people and please please read and research in the internet about AIDS!!!

I don't want you to believe me, but do your own research on this issue. There are doctors who were in the AIDS research and who dropped it and went public to expose this construct of lies that by now killed millions using medicine that had no other use but destroying and ultimately killing the host. As I said - do your own research and hopefully wake up!

Just as food for thoughts: I know Thailand's dive scene for over 20 years now. The dive masters and instructors to 90% are all messing around in bars and other "etablissements" almost on a daily basis, often drunk and not really keen on using condoms and all. None of them I know died of AIDS, but 5 of them died in fatal road accidents and one lost his leg.

Didn't you wonder why it was so quiet for a long time about AIDS? Didn't you wonder why all of the AIDS positive people who refused medication and changed their life style to non-smoking, no drugs, no alcohol and sports were ALL negative 3 months later and survived the "deadly" disease?

I know that my email will most likely kick off an avalanche of mails flaming me for writing all this. As I said - I don't insist that what I am writing is correct and I of course urge everyone to use condoms - but I want you to stop just dreaming and sucking in everything the streamlined media says and do your own research. It is important!!!! If AIDS were what they said it was, we all would be dead by now! Wake up!!!!!

This article is just another campaign to slow Thailand down and give it a bad name. Whoever profits from this has done another great job on keeping Thailand down. Every single incident that would not be worth being mentioned in the news abroad is blown up beyond proportion if it happens in Thailand. Some of you wonder why? No? Then keep sleeping...

When people write comments like this I wonder what is their motive.

Firstly, when Thai people are diagnosed as HIV+, they are not automatically given medicine. The Thai Government instruct hospitals to wait until the CD4 is down to 200. Thai hospitals do not check the viral count unless it is paid for.

In most western countries anti virals are prescribed immediately. This has the effect of decreasing the viral load and over a period reduces the possibility of transmission. The doctors are hopeful that medicine will be giver earlier.

CATWEASLE What happens in your home country I don't know, but AZT has not been used for years. I think your comments are unhelpful, and dangerous.

[davejones]

Is there is one new HIV case every hour = 8,760 per year.

But as of 13 Nov there were only 533 cases so far this year. That's less than two a day.

Someone isn't very good at maths.

Edited November 29, 2012 by davejones

[Ajaan]

Several people mention sex edication in schools . I believe sex education encourages girls to find out about and experience this thing called sex .

In rural areas almost every village has at least one goodtime motel . I am told that it is common practice for schoolgirls to provide the sexual sevice , bt300 .

Does Thailand have a problem , pretending that it is not sexually orientated , not a No.1 destination for sex holidays of all persuasions , no pornography ?

As in most other countries , it seems that drug users and homosexual men who don't use a condom are the primary passers and contractors of HIV .

Oh my god!! How can you seriously write such drivel?! This is what all conservatives in every country use as their argument to not be responsible and give the education their children deserve!! "Sex education leads to more sex?!" I suppose you also think "distributing free condoms" leads to more sex too? And "drug users...and homosexual men...are the primary passers and contractors of HIV in MOST countries??" Tell that to the millions of people dying of AIDS in countless African countries, where it is most clearly a HETEROSEXUAL problem....jesus, get yourself educated before you try to open your mouth.

[Bagwan]

I have it on good authority that there are only 12 or so doctors in the whole of Thailand who may be recognised as being competent in the field of treating HIV positive patients. None of them post here. You might bear that in mind when chewing over in your mind some of the posts preceding this one.

My source of information told me about a year ago that the the official figures fed to him say that there are 14,000 known cases of HIV positive patients in Chonburi province. This represents about 1.2% of the populace. 6,000 of these are treated in Sriracha (and there are no prizes for guessing which hospital deals with the vast majority of them), and 4,000 cases are treated within the bounds of Banglamung, My source alone deals with 2,000. These numbers were supplied by medical practitioners and whether they have been massaged or not is a matter of opinion. How these figures relate to the reality of the prevalence of the disease is merely one of - think of a number and then double it.

My wife has been infected for 21 years and it was only discovered 11 years ago when I took her to a private hospital as I was concerned about her persistent coughing. The physicians diagnosis was tuberculosis and as a matter of routine, since TB is an opportunistic and deadly disease, tested her for HIV. The test proved positive and her CD4 count was found to be 400. Now after treatment by knowing professionals her CD4 count is now just over 1000 and her viral load less than 40 copies per ml, i.e. virtually undetectable. Any suggestion that her good health,vitality and survival has been due to nourishment, regular exercise and avoiding the use of nicotiune and alcohol, I view as beyond the bounds of rationality and into that of ignorance and stupidity.

[Thai at Heart]

I have it on good authority that there are only 12 or so doctors in the whole of Thailand who may be recognised as being competent in the field of treating HIV positive patients. None of them post here. You might bear that in mind when chewing over in your mind some of the posts preceding this one.

My source of information told me about a year ago that the the official figures fed to him say that there are 14,000 known cases of HIV positive patients in Chonburi province. This represents about 1.2% of the populace. 6,000 of these are treated in Sriracha (and there are no prizes for guessing which hospital deals with the vast majority of them), and 4,000 cases are treated within the bounds of Banglamung, My source alone deals with 2,000. These numbers were supplied by medical practitioners and whether they have been massaged or not is a matter of opinion. How these figures relate to the reality of the prevalence of the disease is merely one of - think of a number and then double it.

My wife has been infected for 21 years and it was only discovered 11 years ago when I took her to a private hospital as I was concerned about her persistent coughing. The physicians diagnosis was tuberculosis and as a matter of routine, since TB is an opportunistic and deadly disease, tested her for HIV. The test proved positive and her CD4 count was found to be 400. Now after treatment by knowing professionals her CD4 count is now just over 1000 and her viral load less than 40 copies per ml, i.e. virtually undetectable. Any suggestion that her good health,vitality and survival has been due to nourishment, regular exercise and avoiding the use of nicotiune and alcohol, I view as beyond the bounds of rationality and into that of ignorance and stupidity.

Glad to here that your wife is doing well.

I have a business colleague who's wife works in the regional health department in chonburi/pattaya area.

The known statistica hiv l prevelance among sex workers in that region is 9 times the national average as she told me. It is never publicly declared, and instead the figures are published on a nationwide basis.

It should give anyone pause for thought.

[lifeisadream]

I have been reading news on this forum for years. Though I felt the desire I never felt there were enough skeptical readers, enough viewers who could suspend their beliefs long enough to digest what I intended to write. This time around things feel different. Some people have noticed that the numbers don't add up.

How many people have contemplated the AIDS story that begin with a African man and a monkey? That story is crazier than the tooth fairy and Santa Claus myth wrapped together. Goerbbels has been linked to the famous quote, "When you tell a lie, tell a big one, and then reinforce it often." The whole "medical" drama concerning AIDS is almost totally fabrication. This virus is transmitted through blood. Without blood there can be no transmission. AIDS is transmitted via needles, blood donors, and mothe-to-baby. It is almost impossiboe to be infected from unprotected ses. Unprotected sex is about happiness. Protected sex is about ....

In commercial sex situations how many condoms break? How many slip off or aplplied incorrectly? Where are the AIDS patients? Ask your wife if she knows anyone from her village that died of AIDS (excluding drug users). Where are these millions of infected people? They say millions have it but don't know that they do. Utter hogwash. The whole scam is intended to sell more condoms, plastic gloves, thow away needles, etc. A multi-billion pound industry. Go visit a Wat or hospital with AIDS patients...there are more people in bowling alleys than in these centers. Dlon't believe in this cocamammy story and you will find you won't people in a bunch of other fabricated pieces of proganda.

M. Bauman

In fours years this is my first post.

[JimmyTheMook]

I have it on good authority that there are only 12 or so doctors in the whole of Thailand who may be recognised as being competent in the field of treating HIV positive patients. None of them post here. You might bear that in mind when chewing over in your mind some of the posts preceding this one.

My source of information told me about a year ago that the the official figures fed to him say that there are 14,000 known cases of HIV positive patients in Chonburi province. This represents about 1.2% of the populace. 6,000 of these are treated in Sriracha (and there are no prizes for guessing which hospital deals with the vast majority of them), and 4,000 cases are treated within the bounds of Banglamung, My source alone deals with 2,000. These numbers were supplied by medical practitioners and whether they have been massaged or not is a matter of opinion. How these figures relate to the reality of the prevalence of the disease is merely one of - think of a number and then double it.

My wife has been infected for 21 years and it was only discovered 11 years ago when I took her to a private hospital as I was concerned about her persistent coughing. The physicians diagnosis was tuberculosis and as a matter of routine, since TB is an opportunistic and deadly disease, tested her for HIV. The test proved positive and her CD4 count was found to be 400. Now after treatment by knowing professionals her CD4 count is now just over 1000 and her viral load less than 40 copies per ml, i.e. virtually undetectable. Any suggestion that her good health,vitality and survival has been due to nourishment, regular exercise and avoiding the use of nicotiune and alcohol, I view as beyond the bounds of rationality and into that of ignorance and stupidity.

You certainly don't have to answer this , but any idea how she was infected ?

[Estrada]

"One person is getting infected with HIV every hour", and he is getting fed up with it, I mean 24 times in one day is a bit much for anyone.

[jrincon17]

Well duh, looks whats dancin' on the tables.

[Jingthing]

I'm a bit surprised to see the number of HIV denial type postings here. Bernard Trink redux?

[chaiyapoon]

I know one farang male and 3 thai women who are Hiv positive.The farang, a long term friend ,was infected from a blood transfusion many years ago. He seems in good shape to me the last time I saw him and is on meds.

Of the women two were infected by their Thai husbands. The husbands have both since died.The other was infected by a much younger boyfriend who was a pretty boy and likely also gay. He too has died.My girlfriend knows of 2 of her friends with Hiv .Another has recently died.It seems to be spreading in the village populations and is nearly all Thai to Thai.

The first case I was told about caused a lot of talk in the village and she had to move out for several years. She was an outcaste effectively.Now years later there are a lot more people with Hiv and its more accepted that the risks of transmission are tiny.

[matt helm]

44 percent of every 100,000 with std is very scary. What makes it even worse in that hepatitis is not considered an std and I'm sure a large percentage must be infected with it considering the public higiene problem. Gays being at the top of the HIV list is not really a surprise but sex workers being even lower than a normal couple is a big surprise.

Edited November 29, 2012 by matt helm

[Jingthing]

44 percent of every 100,000 with std is very scary. What makes it even worse in that hepatitis is not considered an std and I'm sure a large percentage must be infected with it considering the public higiene problem. Gays being at the top of the HIV list is not really a surprise but sex workers being even lower than a normal couple is a big surprise.

Gays are not the same thing as MSM (men who have sex with men), rather they are a SUBSET of MSM.

[matt helm]

44 percent of every 100,000 with std is very scary. What makes it even worse in that hepatitis is not considered an std and I'm sure a large percentage must be infected with it considering the public higiene problem. Gays being at the top of the HIV list is not really a surprise but sex workers being even lower than a normal couple is a big surprise.

Gays are not the same thing as MSM (men who have sex with men), rather they are a SUBSET of MSM.

That's true, I forgot about bisexuals. Which brings up an interesting point. Did the sex worker category include the lady boys? I cant believe lady boys also have low HIV counts.

[Jingthing]

The vast majority of men in the entire world including Thailand who sometimes have sex with men (MSM) do NOT identify as gay men.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

44 percent of every 100,000 with std is very scary.

It certainly is. It implies that 44% of the Thai population have an STD. That's getting on for 30 million people. On the other hand whoever wrote the article might just have plucked a bunch of numbers out of a bag without understanding what they mean.

[brianP]

Seems a good time to live clean and with purity in not cheating,fornicating,gambling,drugging,homoing,etc. Be true to yourself and protect the weak!

[Dr Robert]

HIV can be sexually transmitted. Get it?

[meatballs]

Makes you wonder what percentage of sex tourists take home a little extra after spending time with bargirls. One very good reason I won't be seen dead in the same room as a bargirl so to speak. I value my quality of life far to much.

I've slept with hundreds of bargirls here in SEA. At least half with no condoms. Last tests came back negative. That's all I know. Seems like this HIV disease is pretty hard to get or I would have gotten it.

[simple1]

Makes you wonder what percentage of sex tourists take home a little extra after spending time with bargirls. One very good reason I won't be seen dead in the same room as a bargirl so to speak. I value my quality of life far to much.

I've slept with hundreds of bargirls here in SEA. At least half with no condoms. Last tests came back negative. That's all I know. Seems like this HIV disease is pretty hard to get or I would have gotten it.

Lucky you, what are you going to post if you do contract HIV and pass it on to your GF/wife. Oops I ran out of luck, tough for others I may have infected.

[geriatrickid]

Makes you wonder what percentage of sex tourists take home a little extra after spending time with bargirls. One very good reason I won't be seen dead in the same room as a bargirl so to speak. I value my quality of life far to much.

You raise a valid point. A few years ago, Germany had a serious spike in reported STIs. Excluding syphilis, which was linked to refugees and immigrants from a specific region, the STI outbreak was directly linked to German nationals sexual escapades in high risk regions, The same for Denmark and the UK. Interesting enough it only took a handful of patients in each of the countries to be characterized as the starting point of infection. Fortunately, the national health agencies in these countries intervened to stop serious damage. However, I have to wonder. What happens with the Iranians, arabs, Indians and Chinese that visit some of the disease reservoir regions? The Chinese and Indian health agencies are pretty good at responding to an epidemic, but the inherent problem was always in getting people tested. In the middle east there are serious ramifications to getting diagnosed with an STI especially HIV. As such, there is a big obstacle to getting tested.

One of the reasons why many countries are able to contain serious illness is that they have testing programs. This is one of the problems in Thailand. The preventative testing system is in disarray. Yes, HIV is a problem, but hepatitis is just a serious and you can't do a quick test for that. I used to be friendly with one of the girls that was doing her research and I'd tag along. (I was a bit of an opportunist expressing interest in her work, when my real interest was in her.) The number of sero positive clients, along with TB and hepatitis carriers that were plying their trade was frightening. My biggest fear was genital warts. So many of the guys seemed to have them and a lot of them had girlfriends. I reckoned thay they were most likely bulking up the viral loads on their partners which was a recipe for serious illness in the women. I met several patients that had cervical cancer.Thailand is the only place I have seen such a cluster. I saw several male workers that had oropharynx diseases. It wasn't my specialty so I didn't understand what was involved. Back then no one had shown the link between HPV and the anomalies and cancer. Now it is known. In plain language, IMO Thailand is at the tipping point for a major devastating health crisis.

[chooka]

Makes you wonder what percentage of sex tourists take home a little extra after spending time with bargirls. One very good reason I won't be seen dead in the same room as a bargirl so to speak. I value my quality of life far to much.

I've slept with hundreds of bargirls here in SEA. At least half with no condoms. Last tests came back negative. That's all I know. Seems like this HIV disease is pretty hard to get or I would have gotten it.

Oh well don't give up old chap, chin up and keep working at it.

[raybal5]

Wow one every hours !!! That is 12 people every day or 4380 a year, and they call that an epidemic !!!! As a ratio of a Thai population of about 60 million, that is then 60,000,000 / 4380 or a 1 in 13698 chance of any one person catching it each year (and remember the population changes with births and deaths each year too). Hardly an epidemic surely. Also those that do catch HIV generally take far more risks than most of us (and no I do not just mean unprotected normal heterosexual sex) so a normal persons chance of catching HIV is extremely low and in fact far less than getting killed or maimed crossing a busy street here in Thailand or say riding a motorbike here.

Remember that the figure of one every hour is still massively a statistic that is biased heavily to gay sex and intravenous drug users. No I do not have the figures to hand so don't ask, nor the time to look it up to back that statement up, but I am pretty sure that is the case, so feel free to Google some hard facts from an objective and sensible site (no not say the highly biased and restrictive catholic church science laboratory site or whatever). So should we stop crossing the road or stop riding motorbikes which are far far more dangerous to our health, as well as stop unprotected normal hetero sex?? Sure if you do engage in gay sex or even hetero anal sex or inject drugs then sure you should really change your lifestyle and at least ensure you then take protection if you care about yourself. As for the majority of us then take care for sure but do not be frightened into not being able to have an enjoyable fulfilling sex life if say you are one of those who truly cannot use condoms. But scare mongering of a virus that is extremely very difficult to catch and highly unlikely for a normal person to catch should be considered in true honest perspective and not blown out of all reasonable proportions. So just use your head and if you can avoid taking unnecessary high risks of course.

Sure I know every case of HIV is a personal disaster and extremely sad for the poor souls who catch it, and indeed nobody deserves to catch such an infection, even a drug addict for goodness sake as they are still frail human beings like the rest of us. Be great when there is a vaccine against it that we can all get cheaply and of course when there is a total and affordable cure. No I am not advocating an orgy of unprotected sex (fun though that must be !!), but conversely if you are sensible and careful about your partners and like many who find protected sex unfulfilling or even impossible then this is no reason to lower your and your partners' enjoyment of pleasurable sex life. So if sex with a condom is perfectly okay for you and workable, then sure carry on using them as it makes perfect sense of course. However if you are like many and just cannot use condoms with any success then just be careful and use your head and either lead a life of abstinence from more than one partner sex or know and keep the level of risk to a very low and tolerably acceptable level for you and your partners.. If you do take even such a very very low risk then it is still of course possible to get infected, just always be aware of that but keep it in factual perspective and be aware that you should be far more concerned and put far more priority into carefully crossing the road or riding a motorbike here. Far far more risk of sexually transmitted Hepatitis than HIV too, but you CAN at least sensibly get vaccinated against that.

I heard from a knowledgeable STD senior doctor some 10 years ago that statistically if you had totally unprotected normal genital sex with a fully blown AIDS victim, it is so hard to get infected from normal hetero sex that it would take having such sex 1000 times on average for a male to catch HIV from such an infected woman or 500 times for a woman to catch it off of a fully infected male AIDS victim. But he responsibly added that it is purely a statistical average and it could happen the very first time of course, though you would or should generally know from all external signs if a person has full blown AIDS or not. If they have only HIV at that stage of their illness then you may not know that for sure, but then again the chances of getting infected from them with normal unprotected sex is then massively decreased to a much less than the average stated of once every 1000 (or 500) times.

So please no silly flaming as I am not being irresponsible or selfish or even stupid but just trying to present the facts in a completely open minded and honest way from all I have learned and deducted about this subject (though by no means an expert of course), and to try to put things into a less media sensationalistic perspective.. Sure HIV is a real factual problem and not a myth and something we should all be fully aware of and make our decisions accordingly and responsibly. But it is not anything like an epidemic as is sensationally claimed, even in Thailand, and indeed the published figures themselves do not add up to it being so. Sure even 1 person infected in a year is one too many of course and an intolerable disaster for that person's life. Positive feedback and factual comments to add to our communal real knowledge are welcomed,of course, but crappy self opinionated flaming will, as it should, just be rightfully ignored as always. This is NOT about morals and religions and myths but about facts and truth so lets sensibly keep it that way.

Finally. remember it is down to each person whether or not to take risks, and only for others to educate them on the unexaggerated true risks, not the over sensationalist rhetoric that we all have to endure, It takes both partners (or maybe more individuals if you like more adventurous sex ) to agree willingly to have unprotected sex, so it is entirely up to them to know and accept the risks. if you personally want to be remain virtually 100% safe and sure then that is rightfully down to you to decide to always use good protection, like a condom, and never have unprotected sex. That is your decision and yours alone to make such a judgement call, or not of course.

Not sure what planet you are on but on Earth there are 24 hours in a day. So 24 hours x 365 days = 8760 per year.