Chiang Mai Ram Hospital Revisited

[mrmillersr]

I have a friend whose 38 year old Thai wife went to Chiang Mai Ram hospital for an annual routine check up and was told she had cervical cancer and needed an immediate operation. After getting further tests done elsewhere, it was found she did not have cancer at all.

This is not the only experience I am aware of showing this hospital is quick to recommend needless and dangerous procedures. Another friend had a side pain, admittingly after drinking some rot gut the night before, and decided to have it checked out at the hospital.

He was basically scared into thinking it could be gall bladder cancer and talked into having, what turned out to be a perfectly good gall bladder, removed a few days later.

I took my wife there for back pain issues and we saw two different doctors for a total of about 20 minutes. One recommended Vioxx which has since been taken off the market in the US and the other wanted her to stay overnight and do some exploratory surgery in the morning.

I'm sure there are some good doctors associated with this hospital, but it is a crap shoot at best, similiar to what you frequently find in the western world. The big differences are it will cost you less for often bad advice and some of their doctors may be less skilled than their US/UK counterparts.

Depending on the ailment/injury and time of day, I would recommend going to Dr. Tawatchai at Loi Kroa Clinic. He's been in business there for I think 25 years or more and has seen thousands of patients. I have found he is able to recognize and treat a broad range of problems and does it quickly and at a nominal fee.

[Thaising]

To be on the safe side, I always seek second opinion if I have doubt or reservation of that doctor and hospital.

[fr11]

Depending on the ailment/injury and time of day, I would recommend going to Dr. Tawatchai at Loi Kroa Clinic. He's been in business there for I think 25 years or more and has seen thousands of patients. I have found he is able to recognize and treat a broad range of problems and does it quickly and at a nominal fee.

I was once diagnosed by Dr. Tawatchai of having a certain ailment for which he prescribed antibiotics. Because I didn't trust it completely, I went to check at Chiang Mai Ram hospital. A labarotory test did show I was misdiagnosed. Over to you !

[Ajarn]

Nobody is perfect

[Tywais]

Depending on the ailment/injury and time of day, I would recommend going to Dr. Tawatchai at Loi Kroa Clinic. He's been in business there for I think 25 years or more and has seen thousands of patients. I have found he is able to recognize and treat a broad range of problems and does it quickly and at a nominal fee.

I was once diagnosed by Dr. Tawatchai of having a certain ailment for which he prescribed antibiotics. Because I didn't trust it completely, I went to check at Chiang Mai Ram hospital. A labarotory test did show I was misdiagnosed. Over to you !

I've been seeing him for about 14 years now and he was spot on on every problem I had and corrected all of them. One of the worst problems I had was a severly swollen testicle (about 2-3 times too big) and trust me, walking was not fun (probably more then you want to hear) . It was just after song krang festival and was infected from the moat water. Been that way for 2-3 weeks, 2-3 days after he gave me shots and antibiotics, all clear. He indicated it was not that uncommon along with a variety of other ailments from the dirty water.

However fortunately have not had any major problems to see him for so don't know regarding more sophisticated issues. Being a small and modertly equipped clinic he doesn't have all the tools at his disposal to always be correct with his diagnosis but has been good by me.

[Dustoff]

I've been seeing him (Dr. Tawatchai) for about 14 years now and he was spot on on every problem I had and corrected all of them. One of the worst problems I had was a severly swollen testicle (about 2-3 times too big) and trust me, walking was not fun (probably more then you want to hear) . It was just after song krang festival and was infected from the moat water. Been that way for 2-3 weeks, 2-3 days after he gave me shots and antibiotics, all clear. He indicated it was not that uncommon along with a variety of other ailments from the dirty water.

However fortunately have not had any major problems to see him for so don't know regarding more sophisticated issues. Being a small and modertly equipped clinic he doesn't have all the tools at his disposal to always be correct with his diagnosis but has been good by me.

Excellent posts and I have some experience with this clinic as it is where I and my wife went for the first 3+ years we were living here.

For most minor local and Thai-specific problems, he at least takes the time to talk with you, has a wealth of small clinic experience but we stopped going to him after several senseless mistakes and misdiagnoses. And part of having "all the tools at his disposal" is a willingness to open a medical book of some kind after graduating medical school and not working more hours/days than you can reasonably maintain alertness. We felt that his knowlege of modern pharmachology and the differences between us White Folk and Thais was severly lacking..

Not that this isn't a problem everywhere; some 98k/yr (or so I have read many times) patients in the US become comfortably dead due to medical malpractice and I can imagine that the stats are even worse over here.

Chiang Mai RAM seems pretty good but I don't really trust any of them any more. I have hypo-thyroidism and there are related problems over the years and the only way I seem to have survived several serious maladies (after having gone undiagnosed for SO long) only because I decided to become my own doctor (physician heal theyself?) and conduct serious studies on the internet to educate myself.

To this day, while I would tend to head for Bumrangrad Hospital in BKK for anything remotely serious, I have not found a doctor or hospital that I would recommend giving your total trust.

Me: "Dr. Tawatchai, I tipped my heavy motorcycle over and injured my foot."

Doc: "No you didn't."

Me: "Umm, yes I did. It is a crush injury and I think I may have broken a bone or two."

Doc: "No you didn't. That is gout. I will do a blood test to see if you have gout."

Doc (post blood test): "Your blood test was negative, you do not have gout."

Me: "Okay, as I thought; can we now do an x-ray to see if anything is broken"?

Doc (several times when I insisted): "No, not necessary. Wait and it will get better."

It did not. An x-ray during a trip to Phuket found that I had two broken bones in my foot and repair/healing at such a late date was a real pain in the.. umm.. foot!

Cover your butt with both hands and with education and live a lot longer...

[seeker108]

I must agree with Dustoff that one should be very proactive with ones health and research as much as possible whatever ails you as best you can. I also agree about being very careful regarding using western medical treatment. Last I heard, western medical treatment was itself the 3rd leading cause of death in the west. That is a very scary statistic, especially when many of those deaths ocurred in cases involving minor issues to start with.

I personally tend to enjoy the diagnostic aspects of western medical science while seeking out proven "alternative" natural systems of healthcare for treatment (particularly Ayur Veda). And always seek a second or even third opinion if I have any doubt about an original opinion. I have on more than one occasion experienced doctors expressing their diagnostic opinion as if it were an absolute, indisputable fact while I knew they were not understanding the issue properly and later confirming that they were way off base. And they would insist that I immediately take some drug or do some procedure that would have, as it turned out, done harm, not good and in 1 case could have been fatal.

I know many of you don't feel comfortable enough with your own medical understanding to be as proactive as some others, so it is even more important for you to seek additional opinions before undergoing any serious procedure or taking any western medicine. The consequences of side effects and misdiagnosis are just too serious (including death, if you consider this a problem) to be jumping in blindly. And you really should try to do at least some research. The internet has a wealth of information these days.

Having said all of this, I should also say that I have met many wonderful doctors all over the world who are warm and caring and do have an open mind and are careful in their statements. Hopefully you will always find such doctors.

[rcav8r]

Very valid comments - snipped below - but often, people have difficulty raising the matter of a second opinion. Well, so did I - once ! Then I had a doctor state quite categorically that I should have a bowel section removed - " ... I'll open you up - cut out 2 feet of it - throw it away - and sew up the 2 ends again .... " ! He stressed that this was essential and that I should have it done no more than within 3 months - so get you affairs in order otherwise.

That was enough for me. And I had a witness with me at the time - a qualified nurse. But chicken that I was - I didn't tell that quack that I was going to seek a 2nd opinion - I phoned and left a message with his nurse ! Cluck-cluck ! But I did find another specialist and went to see him. The quack was supposed to have sent all my details but didn't. Nevertheless, the new specialist said he would carry out an "inspection" that same day. I think he took pity on me for the previous cavalier treatment received. And within 45 minutes, he completely reversed the opinion of the other guy. No need for the section to be removed, annual checks and a very minor procedure possibly at 3 - 5 year intervals.

That was 7 years ago - in the UK - the quack's name I have no hesitation in saying is/was Dr Chin in Sutton Coldfield, UK - the "good" specialist in Solihull has since died - rest his soul - and I am under another specialist's care at the Theppanya (which is or was the Ram 2) who is a fine doctor I believe. I was informed by Kh Champoo at Ram 1 that they are NOT affiliated with Theppanya (Ram 2 - Two) anymore. And with the few horror stories I've heard about Ram 1 (One) recently, I'm not surprised either !!!

So, back to the post thread, if in any doubt - do the following as suggested ................

+ always seek a second or even third opinion if ..... any doubt about an original opinion

+ important for you to seek additional opinions before undergoing any serious procedure or taking any western medicine

+ you really should try to do at least some research. The internet has a wealth of information these days

+ having said all of this, I should also say that I have met many wonderful doctors* all over the world who are warm and caring and do have an open mind and are careful in their statements

* for me? Perhaps 5 in total - and one of them died already ...........

Good health MalcolmL

[Chillaxin]

Depending on the ailment/injury and time of day, I would recommend going to Dr. Tawatchai at Loi Kroa Clinic. He's been in business there for I think 25 years or more and has seen thousands of patients. I have found he is able to recognize and treat a broad range of problems and does it quickly and at a nominal fee.

I was once diagnosed by Dr. Tawatchai of having a certain ailment for which he prescribed antibiotics. Because I didn't trust it completely, I went to check at Chiang Mai Ram hospital. A labarotory test did show I was misdiagnosed. Over to you !

I've been seeing him for about 14 years now and he was spot on on every problem I had and corrected all of them. One of the worst problems I had was a severly swollen testicle (about 2-3 times too big) and trust me, walking was not fun (probably more then you want to hear) . It was just after song krang festival and was infected from the moat water. Been that way for 2-3 weeks, 2-3 days after he gave me shots and antibiotics, all clear. He indicated it was not that uncommon along with a variety of other ailments from the dirty water.

However fortunately have not had any major problems to see him for so don't know regarding more sophisticated issues. Being a small and modertly equipped clinic he doesn't have all the tools at his disposal to always be correct with his diagnosis but has been good by me.

Did someone splash your exposed penis with dirty moat water? Or maybe splashed the testicle directly?

[john b good]

Nobody is perfect

Ajarn, please refer to my signature line

[john b good]

I have a friend whose 38 year old Thai wife went to Chiang Mai Ram hospital for an annual routine check up and was told she had cervical cancer and needed an immediate operation. After getting further tests done elsewhere, it was found she did not have cancer at all.

This is not the only experience I am aware of showing this hospital is quick to recommend needless and dangerous procedures. Another friend had a side pain, admittingly after drinking some rot gut the night before, and decided to have it checked out at the hospital.

He was basically scared into thinking it could be gall bladder cancer and talked into having, what turned out to be a perfectly good gall bladder, removed a few days later.

I took my wife there for back pain issues and we saw two different doctors for a total of about 20 minutes. One recommended Vioxx which has since been taken off the market in the US and the other wanted her to stay overnight and do some exploratory surgery in the morning.

I'm sure there are some good doctors associated with this hospital, but it is a crap shoot at best, similiar to what you frequently find in the western world. The big differences are it will cost you less for often bad advice and some of their doctors may be less skilled than their US/UK counterparts.

Depending on the ailment/injury and time of day, I would recommend going to Dr. Tawatchai at Loi Kroa Clinic. He's been in business there for I think 25 years or more and has seen thousands of patients. I have found he is able to recognize and treat a broad range of problems and does it quickly and at a nominal fee.

I don't think that this problem is peculiar to CM Ram. People have been diagnosed with AID's here in the realm and following second opinions obtained later they are shown to be clear of the dread desease.

Dr. Tawatchai at Loi Kroa Clinic!..... Yes he does have a good reputation and I have visited his clinic quite a few times over the past 18 years.