Cambodia To Face Mass Return Of Nationals Working In Thailand

[Trembly]

only a couple of years until the ASEAN agreement is in place, that may be interesting

Don't hold your breath. AEC changes are meant to be incremental. The first group to get anything approaching freedom of movement will be highly skilled professionals, doctors, nurses, lawyers, expert experts on something or another etc.

[Arkady]

Sure...the govt is going to deport 160,000 Cambodians next Friday. They know were everyone is living, have bus tickets prepared, and everyone will willingly leave. Sure. Sounds like it's time for another extension of the verification program.

Or maybe a crackdown on unverified Khmers.

[Arkady]

only a couple of years until the ASEAN agreement is in place, that may be interesting

Don't hold your breath. AEC changes are meant to be incremental. The first group to get anything approaching freedom of movement will be highly skilled professionals, doctors, nurses, lawyers, expert experts on something or another etc.

Yes, and in answer to the concerns of Thai experts in the said fields that they won't be able to compete in their own country any more, officials are assuring them that the foreign experts will need to pass exams in Thai to work in Thailand. On the other hand, not many Thai experts will be able to pass exams in English or other languages to work elsewhere in ASEAN, So the freedom of labour movement provisions are going to be a non-event for Thailand.

[Trembly]

only a couple of years until the ASEAN agreement is in place, that may be interesting

Don't hold your breath. AEC changes are meant to be incremental. The first group to get anything approaching freedom of movement will be highly skilled professionals, doctors, nurses, lawyers, expert experts on something or another etc.

Yes, and in answer to the concerns of Thai experts in the said fields that they won't be able to compete in their own country any more, officials are assuring them that the foreign experts will need to pass exams in Thai to work in Thailand. On the other hand, not many Thai experts will be able to pass exams in English or other languages to work elsewhere in ASEAN, So the freedom of labour movement provisions are going to be a non-event for Thailand.

Which is causing many a red face among the Thais responsible for answering to their ASEAN chums because it is so spectacularly off-message . . . I know a very senior Thai envoy who privately despairs at the engagement, or rather non-engagement of Thailand on bringing standards up to snuff and focusing instead putting on flag-waving pageants and national costume displays in schools.

I expect that he is probably on the receiving end of as much piss-taking by his ASEAN opposite numbers as Asian etiquette will allow.

[hellodolly]

only a couple of years until the ASEAN agreement is in place, that may be interesting

Don't hold your breath. AEC changes are meant to be incremental. The first group to get anything approaching freedom of movement will be highly skilled professionals, doctors, nurses, lawyers, expert experts on something or another etc.

Well there is no doubt about it the flow of expert experts will be a one way flow into Thailand.

Thailand still has not caught on to the idea of decent education given them these people so they will continue to turn out collage grads with little education but they will look good.

[Trembly]

only a couple of years until the ASEAN agreement is in place, that may be interesting

Don't hold your breath. AEC changes are meant to be incremental. The first group to get anything approaching freedom of movement will be highly skilled professionals, doctors, nurses, lawyers, expert experts on something or another etc.

Well there is no doubt about it the flow of expert experts will be a one way flow into Thailand.

Thailand still has not caught on to the idea of decent education given them these people so they will continue to turn out collage grads with little education but they will look good.

A good thing I think; it might finally wake Thailand up.

[4evermaat]

Thailand!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you ever known a country to be so full of its own self importance. <deleted>.....

The United States of America?

[DP25]

I think it's going to be interesting after few years when both Burma and Cambodia are becoming better places to live. At least some of these nationalities are willing to go back to their home countries, instead of living here.

At that time Thailand might need to do changes to attract foreign workers here for manual labor.

After a few years, you are kidding right. I have been coming here since 1970 Thailand is so far ahead of everyone else there is no catching up, especially with the governments they have, Then again with Taksin jocking Thailand could go down fast

Realy? since 1970? so im guessing your an old un as we say in England. To old to see the changes. Burma and Cambodia are getting far more attention from tourists these days than the sad, tired, rip off thailand. I have lived here for 14 years (not as long as you) but i prefer to spend my time in Laos/Cambodia/Burma than in thailand

Yeah lots of foreigners like Cambodia and Lao better. The people there are so incredibly, desperately poor that they will put up stuff Thais no longer will. The girls are much, much poorer and have fewer options so the bar scene attracts women who are younger, better looking, and less mercenary and they will go with any farang around for a few pennies tossed their way. The people are so poor, that their scams are so minor to the average foreigner that they don't even realize they are being overcharged. As Cambodia and Laos develop this will all change in ways that many farang will not like. The average Camodian is lucky to make 2 dollars a day working a full day, when they have a bit more they won't be so desperate and prices and rip offs will increase exponentially.

Regardless they are DECADES behind Thailand in development, they will be lucky to catch up in 50 years let alone surpass.

[zakk9]

I think it's going to be interesting after few years when both Burma and Cambodia are becoming better places to live. At least some of these nationalities are willing to go back to their home countries, instead of living here.

At that time Thailand might need to do changes to attract foreign workers here for manual labor.

After a few years, you are kidding right. I have been coming here since 1970 Thailand is so far ahead of everyone else there is no catching up, especially with the governments they have, Then again with Taksin jocking Thailand could go down fast

Realy? since 1970? so im guessing your an old un as we say in England. To old to see the changes. Burma and Cambodia are getting far more attention from tourists these days than the sad, tired, rip off thailand. I have lived here for 14 years (not as long as you) but i prefer to spend my time in Laos/Cambodia/Burma than in thailand

Yeah lots of foreigners like Cambodia and Lao better. The people there are so incredibly, desperately poor that they will put up stuff Thais no longer will. The girls are much, much poorer and have fewer options so the bar scene attracts women who are younger, better looking, and less mercenary and they will go with any farang around for a few pennies tossed their way. The people are so poor, that their scams are so minor to the average foreigner that they don't even realize they are being overcharged. As Cambodia and Laos develop this will all change in ways that many farang will not like. The average Camodian is lucky to make 2 dollars a day working a full day, when they have a bit more they won't be so desperate and prices and rip offs will increase exponentially.

Regardless they are DECADES behind Thailand in development, they will be lucky to catch up in 50 years let alone surpass.

If you look upon SE Asia as a brothel, I suppose you are right

I find it surprising how many assume that the neighbouring countries will develop the same way as Thailand. Malaysia hasn't and neither has Singapore. As opposed to Thailand, most of these countries have kept strong ties to the European countries that used to colonize them, keeping and modernising much of the infrastructure that was built then, 60 or more years ago. This is visible in much of how the governments are organised, and particularly within the education sector. While the Cambodian schools and universities have a long way to go, they are developing and the students are actually learning things, like foreign languages (even without free tablet computers to all students). They also accept foreign expertise to a much larger degree than Thailand. Angkor Wat and the National Museum in Phnom Penh are excellent examples of how working together globally has helped preserving invaluable ancient treasures for the future. Yes, there is corruption and there are problems, but that seems to be inevitable in this part of the world, surprisingly also in Thailand.

50 years? That will be when Thailand makes the 15th attempt to auction away the 4G mobile network frequencies, a technology that is already being implemented in Cambodia as well as in other countries in the region. Thailand excel mainly in three areas:

- The ability to attract foreign investors to establish industry using their own, foreign technology.

- Making tourists feel welcome, at the beach, in restaurants, at the temple or in bed.

- Spending money on things that make Thailand look like an advanced, modern society. Cars and motorways are prime examples of that, as are the resulting traffic jams.

[FarangTalk]

Yeah lots of foreigners like Cambodia and Lao better. The people there are so incredibly, desperately poor that they will put up stuff Thais no longer will. The girls are much, much poorer and have fewer options so the bar scene attracts women who are younger, better looking, and less mercenary and they will go with any farang around for a few pennies tossed their way. The people are so poor, that their scams are so minor to the average foreigner that they don't even realize they are being overcharged. As Cambodia and Laos develop this will all change in ways that many farang will not like. The average Camodian is lucky to make 2 dollars a day working a full day, when they have a bit more they won't be so desperate and prices and rip offs will increase exponentially.

Regardless they are DECADES behind Thailand in development, they will be lucky to catch up in 50 years let alone surpass.

The sex-trade in Cambodia is minuscule in comparison to Thailand. There are no go-go bars either, that sort of 'entertainment' is banned.

Cambodian women working in the bars tend to be more choosy than their Thai counterparts, so will not go with just anyone who is paying, so you are wrong on that count also. The bars tend to be hostess style, so a lot less seedy and pushy than those in Thailand. In addition a lot of the girls working in bars there are actually Vietnamese.

With the current rate of growth things will change, I'm just glad I saw it all back in 2000 before most people turned up.

[SouthernMan3]

Yes - like treating their foreign workers with less disdain! My wifes family didn't have two pots to pi$$ in in rural Isaan, but I have twigged over the years that they turn their noses up like there's a bad smell whenever the subject of Cambodians comes up. Not one of Thialand's more attractive cultural traits. Not surprising that Cambodians don't like Thais and regard them as a bit to high and mighty

Thank god for cambodia. The people in Isaan have someone to look down on. Tooooo funny. Cuz they are right on the top in Thailand.

"On the top in Thailand"

Please qualify.....

[SouthernMan3]

I think it's going to be interesting after few years when both Burma and Cambodia are becoming better places to live. At least some of these nationalities are willing to go back to their home countries, instead of living here.

At that time Thailand might need to do changes to attract foreign workers here for manual labor.

After a few years, you are kidding right. I have been coming here since 1970 Thailand is so far ahead of everyone else there is no catching up, especially with the governments they have, Then again with Taksin jocking Thailand could go down fast

Realy? since 1970? so im guessing your an old un as we say in England. To old to see the changes. Burma and Cambodia are getting far more attention from tourists these days than the sad, tired, rip off thailand. I have lived here for 14 years (not as long as you) but i prefer to spend my time in Laos/Cambodia/Burma than in thailand

Then move !

[SouthernMan3]

Getting more tourists than before - yes, but increases in Lao and Camby are no more than in Thailand I would guess. Love both Laos and Cambodia but to deny that Thailand is still not light years ahead of both in development is bonkers as we say in England. When they have developed a bit more they will get the rip-offs don't you worry! [and while we are on that subject, Cambodian immigration is a disgrace at some border crossings].

Nonetheless, I can understand why some will choose C/L/M over T, in the same way many of us choose Isaan over BangPats

I don't know what Cambodian border crossings you use, but compared to Thai immigration, Cambodian immigration nowadays is a very friendly experience. Most of them even have these little stickers on the windows saying "No money to be paid here".

While Cambodia was rather backwards only a few years ago, they have been cleaning up very nicely, at least what is visible to tourists, and I have been experiencing less rip-offs and corruption, not more, as they have developed. Phnom Penh has become a very civilized city and new, reasonably priced "boutique hotels" are popping up almost every month. Much cleaner than Bangkok too, and the traffic is mostly civilized.

As for the nationality verification: This is apparently the same for all countries bordering Thailand. Those who want to work here needs a special passport and an id card that allows them to work here. A Burmese friend of mine had to wait for months for her documents (and pay thousands of baht along the way). Apparently, the Cambodian government has been working to slowly on this one, or maybe they aren't as eager as the Burmese government to have their citizens working in Thailand.

I don't know what Thai immigration you use but they are ALWAYS very friendly to me.

Of course I have been here for 30 years, have a non-o, am married with 2 children and know most of them (and/or their bosses).

[SouthernMan3]

Cambodian immigration is already light years ahead of Thailand. I have been using the Koh Kong or Aran crossings for 12 years. My last 3 trips thru Aran have been a nightmare. On the Khmer side it takes 2 or 3 mins, unless you turn up with all the tourist buses leaving Siem Reap at 7-6am. However on the Thai side scams are in full swing. 500baht gets you about halfway up the 1 to 1.5 hour line, not even to the front. While the Khmers have finger print scanners and a seemingly efficient computer system the Thais are merrily going as slowly as possible so their scam artists at the back of the line can generate more cash. Thailand is going backwards very fast. For me the biggest difference is the eagerness of many of the youth who want to learn and improve themselves and their country. I absolutely cannot say the same of Thai youth I have met.

You obviously do not know the 'right' people.....

[HHBM]

Serious question: am I the only one who notices Cambodians begging in the streets while Burmese are off to work in the factories 6-7 days a week? I'm not trying to stereotype, but I've yet to see a Burmese begging on the streets of Thailand. Is there a historical reason, cultural reason, difference in police protection vs. enforcement? While on the subject, I didn't see any beggars in Laos, but I don't claim to be well-travelled by any stretch.

[samran]

Serious question: am I the only one who notices Cambodians begging in the streets while Burmese are off to work in the factories 6-7 days a week? I'm not trying to stereotype, but I've yet to see a Burmese begging on the streets of Thailand. Is there a historical reason, cultural reason, difference in police protection vs. enforcement? While on the subject, I didn't see any beggars in Laos, but I don't claim to be well-travelled by any stretch.

My guess is that there were many landmine and other victims of unexploded ammunition victims from Cambodia who have been used as beggars by whoever exploits them.

[Thai at Heart]

Yes - like treating their foreign workers with less disdain! My wifes family didn't have two pots to pi$$ in in rural Isaan, but I have twigged over the years that they turn their noses up like there's a bad smell whenever the subject of Cambodians comes up. Not one of Thialand's more attractive cultural traits. Not surprising that Cambodians don't like Thais and regard them as a bit to high and mighty

Thank god for cambodia. The people in Isaan have someone to look down on. Tooooo funny. Cuz they are right on the top in Thailand.

"On the top in Thailand"

Please qualify.....

Everyone in the whole country, colloquially looks down on those in Isaan, so I guess those in isaan can thank their lucky stars that everyone in Thailand looks down on Cambodians. A bit of one upmanship is always good for the soul and national pride.

[Trembly]

Yes - like treating their foreign workers with less disdain! My wifes family didn't have two pots to pi$$ in in rural Isaan, but I have twigged over the years that they turn their noses up like there's a bad smell whenever the subject of Cambodians comes up. Not one of Thialand's more attractive cultural traits. Not surprising that Cambodians don't like Thais and regard them as a bit to high and mighty

Thank god for cambodia. The people in Isaan have someone to look down on. Tooooo funny. Cuz they are right on the top in Thailand.

"On the top in Thailand"

Please qualify.....

Everyone in the whole country, colloquially looks down on those in Isaan, so I guess those in isaan can thank their lucky stars that everyone in Thailand looks down on Cambodians. A bit of one upmanship is always good for the soul and national pride.

This is rapidly changing. Less than a decade ago Isan people felt ashamed to speak to Isan on the sky-train. Now they have absolutely no qualms. There are also soaps that are set in Isan (although the main characters are still rich Isan farmers with big houses and big family dramas rather than poor ones with small etc) A trajectory not dissimilar to the Irish in England.

[SouthernMan3]

Yes - like treating their foreign workers with less disdain! My wifes family didn't have two pots to pi$$ in in rural Isaan, but I have twigged over the years that they turn their noses up like there's a bad smell whenever the subject of Cambodians comes up. Not one of Thialand's more attractive cultural traits. Not surprising that Cambodians don't like Thais and regard them as a bit to high and mighty

Thank god for cambodia. The people in Isaan have someone to look down on. Tooooo funny. Cuz they are right on the top in Thailand.

"On the top in Thailand"

Please qualify.....

Everyone in the whole country, colloquially looks down on those in Isaan, so I guess those in isaan can thank their lucky stars that everyone in Thailand looks down on Cambodians. A bit of one upmanship is always good for the soul and national pride.

I get it.

But, not everyone.

That would be racist.

[alant]

only a couple of years until the ASEAN agreement is in place, that may be interesting

That may be irrelevant too. ASEAN doesn't allow the free movement of all labour.

where can you get info on the agreement?

[hellodolly]

I think it's going to be interesting after few years when both Burma and Cambodia are becoming better places to live. At least some of these nationalities are willing to go back to their home countries, instead of living here.

At that time Thailand might need to do changes to attract foreign workers here for manual labor.

After a few years, you are kidding right. I have been coming here since 1970 Thailand is so far ahead of everyone else there is no catching up, especially with the governments they have, Then again with Taksin jocking Thailand could go down fast

I have no facts or figures but I know that Cambodia is growing economically and Burma is just waking up.

They will both be looking for workers.

[Sheryl]

All they need to do is like on the other side of the country. Go home get a temporary passport. They will get a work permit from the labour office, and report to immigration every 90 days. No big deal.

It costs almost $300 to get a Cambodian passport, which is then valid for only 3 years, has few pages and they will not add pages to it when full, you have to get another one. Takes 1-2 months to get as well (there is an "express" track but you can imagine what that costs!)

Which is why so few Cambodians have passports -- and certainly none in the socioeconomic group that would be doing low wage work in Thailand.

[Sheryl]

I don't know what Thai immigration you use but they are ALWAYS very friendly to me.

Of course I have been here for 30 years, have a non-o, am married with 2 children and know most of them (and/or their bosses).

He is probably using a land border crossing as opposed to airport.

I can't speak for the other locations but Aranyaprathet is awful. An express channel (sometimes 2) for Thais which is usually empty and then long lines & very surly officers for everyone else.

[phuketrichard]

All they need to do is like on the other side of the country. Go home get a temporary passport. They will get a work permit from the labour office, and report to immigration every 90 days. No big deal.

It costs almost $300 to get a Cambodian passport, which is then valid for only 3 years, has few pages and they will not add pages to it when full, you have to get another one. Takes 1-2 months to get as well (there is an "express" track but you can imagine what that costs!)

Which is why so few Cambodians have passports -- and certainly none in the socioeconomic group that would be doing low wage work in Thailand.

Sheryl;

Not true.

it only costs that much if u want it fast

you can get it for $135 ( that's what i paid for my gf's recent passport last dec) took 50 days 32 pages

$135 45-50 days

$185 21-35 days

$285 7-10 days

$384 3-5 days

You get two extensions valid for 2 years ( $5 or $7 for 4years) than you need apply for a new passport. Whats really strange is Cambodian Passports can ONLY be issued in Cambodia no matter where you are or live

[phuketrichard]

Palin an Osmach are very easy borders to enter /depart from, never any traffic

and never any scams

Koh Kong they will try and scam you but their hearts aren't in it, unless ur really new to crossing borders in asia and easy intimidated.

Poi pet deporting for Cambodians they cant enter the same lines as farangs and are overly questioned reasons for leaving Camboida an then on the thai side why they are going to Thailand

[Sheryl]

All they need to do is like on the other side of the country. Go home get a temporary passport. They will get a work permit from the labour office, and report to immigration every 90 days. No big deal.

It costs almost $300 to get a Cambodian passport, which is then valid for only 3 years, has few pages and they will not add pages to it when full, you have to get another one. Takes 1-2 months to get as well (there is an "express" track but you can imagine what that costs!)

Which is why so few Cambodians have passports -- and certainly none in the socioeconomic group that would be doing low wage work in Thailand.

Sheryl;

Not true.

it only costs that much if u want it fast

you can get it for $135 ( that's what i paid for my gf's recent passport last dec) took 50 days 32 pages

$135 45-50 days

$185 21-35 days

$285 7-10 days

$384 3-5 days

You get two extensions valid for 2 years ( $5 or $7 for 4years) than you need apply for a new passport. Whats really strange is Cambodian Passports can ONLY be issued in Cambodia no matter where you are or live

Your GF was very, very lucky. Everyone I know who went the under $285 route waited more than 6 months before capitulating and paying more. And everyone I know (quite a number) who paid $285 waited at least a month.

Officially posted fees are one thing, what they actually charge are another.

In any even even $135 would not be affordable for a migrant laborer. Until the passport fee comes down, this will remioan a big barrier. (There has been some talk of lowering it, I believe).

I have a Thai neighbor who wanted to hire some Cambodian staff & asked me to help since I am there half the year and have many Khmer connections. I told her I would be happy to find her reliable people but only if she made an arrangement that was legal as I was not going to expose anyone to the risks that come with being illegal. We reviewed the toptions open -- passport, the "border pass" (with no passport can get a pass good for 7 days at a stretch in the provinces along the border) and migrant worker registration with the Min of labor (which in fact does not require a passport) and none were affordable for her, by the time the costs were added in it was just as cheap or cheaper to hire a Thai. t

So that was the end of that. It's why so many people flout the law -- the law is just not set up to be practical to follow.

Yes, you can get extensions - but not more pages, and they give very few pages to begin with.

[Sheryl]

Palin an Osmach are very easy borders to enter /depart from, never any traffic

and never any scams

Koh Kong they will try and scam you but their hearts aren't in it, unless ur really new to crossing borders in asia and easy intimidated.

Poi pet deporting for Cambodians they cant enter the same lines as farangs and are overly questioned reasons for leaving Camboida an then on the thai side why they are going to Thailand

I think the discussion was about the Thai side, coming in. Poipet isn't bad for either farang or Khmer in my experience (though the latter get soaked for a bit of $), but the Thai side (Aran) is terrible. Farang do not get questioned, but expect humungous waits and rudeness. If the line is at all long, it extends out into the hot sun with no shade. Meanwhile, 1 or 2 completely empty posts with staff await the occasional Thai. I can understand giving a degree of preferential treatment to your own nationals but this takes it to an absurd level.

Stayed like that even during the airport closure when huge numbers of people were forced to enter overland.

[phuketrichard]

these are not official prices and are the norm thru travel agents and have been for over 5 years that i have helped Cambodians get passports and for my GF, her sisters an various friends of mine.

Next time u need a passport done, head over to Lucky Lucky motorcycle on Monivong

Palin ( which is NOT opposite Aran) is and in and out for everyone as is Osmach