This will be a hard concept for Thaksin and his PTP lackeys to understand - that someone would take a stance on a moral position where there is no benefit to themselves.

I don't see any Democrat Minister taking a moral stand. Mores the pity.

As for former PM Abhisit he appears to have broken all of the rules of moral conduct in his handling of the Redshirt demonstration in the Thai Capital thus being directly or indirectly responsible for much loss of life. Given his illustrious UK education at the seat of the greatest law makers on the planet his actions puzzle law abiding members of the Thai public.

This will be a hard concept for Thaksin and his PTP lackeys to understand - that someone would take a stance on a moral position where there is no benefit to themselves.

I don't see any Democrat Minister taking a moral stand. Mores the pity.

As for former PM Abhisit he appears to have broken all of the rules of moral conduct in his handling of the Redshirt demonstration in the Thai Capital thus being directly or indirectly responsible for much loss of life. Given his illustrious UK education at the seat of the greatest law makers on the planet his actions puzzle law abiding members of the Thai public.

Of course they are taking a moral stand and one to be applauded by the nation.

Ever since Thaksin, Chalerm's sons, Arisman and the rest set the tone for fleeing from justice for enough time to get things illegally "fixed" the whole criminal population flees justice from murderers to bus drivers.

Aphisit's and Suthep's stand is truly admirable.

The reason those with a red affiliation don't like it is that it shows that one side has morals that Thai children can take example from at a time when corruption is so widely accepted. The other side doesn't despite having their "government" in power and their arms around a few authorities' throats.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Reconciliation bill even if it is passed, has nothing to do with the crime against humanity

committed. The persons in charge of ordering heavily armed soldiers to open fire on unarmed

civilians will still be brought to justice - amnesty are only for the victims or political prisoners

who are still on trials and in prisons. People will never allow reconciliation with murderers.

So, please explain what order was given

Until a trial exposes what transpired during PM Abhisit's residence in the 11th Infantry Barracks of Bangkok we will never know exactly how or why the Thai Army were mobilized into a civil war footing by the then PM Abhisit. At best the outcome shamed Thailand as unarmed citizens fell to the Thai Army fusillades. Above all the bereived hunger for knowledge of how Ex PM Abhiisit may try to justify his actions

Reconciliation bill even if it is passed, has nothing to do with the crime against humanity

committed. The persons in charge of ordering heavily armed soldiers to open fire on unarmed

civilians will still be brought to justice - amnesty are only for the victims or political prisoners

who are still on trials and in prisons. People will never allow reconciliation with murderers.

So, please explain what order was given

Until a trial exposes what transpired during PM Abhisit's residence in the 11th Infantry Barracks of Bangkok we will never know exactly how or why the Thai Army were mobilized into a civil war footing by the then PM Abhisit. At best the outcome shamed Thailand as unarmed citizens fell to the Thai Army fusillades. Above all the bereived hunger for knowledge of how Ex PM Abhiisit may try to justify his actions

When the Thaksin apologists try the old innocent posting gambit it is not very clever even thought they might think it is. The escalation of the violence was the responsibility of their redshirt mates (telegraphed by Arisman) so lets not argue the toss about this. Plus the reds and their mates the blackshirts were up for it as well. The throwing of blood at the beginning was a warning. What really upsets these red cheerleaders is that the army cleared their violence off the streets. I wonder how many of the bereaved were in the audience politely clapping Arisman's ministrations to burn down Bangkok?

This will be a hard concept for Thaksin and his PTP lackeys to understand - that someone would take a stance on a moral position where there is no benefit to themselves.

I don't see any Democrat Minister taking a moral stand. Mores the pity.

As for former PM Abhisit he appears to have broken all of the rules of moral conduct in his handling of the Redshirt demonstration in the Thai Capital thus being directly or indirectly responsible for much loss of life. Given his illustrious UK education at the seat of the greatest law makers on the planet his actions puzzle law abiding members of the Thai public.

No they don't. Particularly when contributors as above include the redshirts in their category of 'law-abiding members of the Thai public'. Pause for incredulous laughter. The reality is that the redshirts hoped that by systematically upping the level of violence during the events they would force the government to retreat and ultimately resign (ie overthrow the govt.) That the day ended in failure is what they really lament.

Does anyone know what the exact communiqué was from the CRES to the RTA?

Was it an authorisation to use live ammunition in self defence?

Was it an order to clear protesters with the use of arms?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

‘In the case when [the authorities] find flagrant offences in which the perpetrators are using firearms against officials, or use weapons or explosives against military positions and important premises as specified by the CRES, the authorities are authorized to use firearms against the perpetrators to stop their actions. But, if the perpetrators are mingling among the protesters to the extent that such use of firearms might endanger innocent people, the use of firearms is prohibited, except in cases where military units have already deployed marksmen sufficiently able to shoot to stop the activities. In addition, if military units find targets but cannot themselves carry out the shooting, for example, because the targets are shielded, etc., the units can ask for support from snipers from the CRES.’

The pro-bono Red Shirt propagandist will tell you that means Abhisit ordered the murder of innocent, unarmed Red Shirts.

As a foreigner I still do not understand what Thaksin did or did not do that on the face of it gives him such appeal to many Thais and yet attract a large degree of condemnation from foreigners.

Everything Thaksin has done/did has (if you buy into the propaganda) been (on the face of it) for the "people" of Thailand.

If you are able to look beyond that, you'll see that everything he has done/did was for HIS benefit and HIS benefit alone. Why do you think he is so rich? He didn't get that way by any honest means.

They may not be perfect but I admire their determination to do right in this case.

What else can they do? Plead guilty? The allegations are serious and anything les than a decisive victory would end Mr. Abhisit's political career. It's all he has.

What he did that appeals to many thais is that he implemented some populist policies that a portion of the populace believes was for the benefit of the poor.

The condemnation he receives from farangs is earned because a majority of farangs have the ability to see past egocentric propaganda and detect the fraud and lies.

Considering most 'farangs' do not know a thing about Thai history, cannot speak fluent Thai, don't read or watch local media (because they cannot understand it), do not understand the nuances of Thai culture (or Thai-Chinese culture to be more precise) I don't think the majority of 'farangs' have the ability to see much at all.

Most 'farangs' arrived during or after Thaksin's tenure and that's all they know. He's their bogeyman. They hated him when he was in power, and why not? Under his watch not many things improved for the self-important Western expat community; visa laws were tightened, bars and entertainment venues were closed earlier and Purachai went on his campaign against immorality. They see Thailand changing and they resented it.

[

Of course they are taking a moral stand and one to be applauded by the nation.

Ever since Thaksin, Chalerm's sons, Arisman and the rest set the tone for fleeing from justice for enough time to get things illegally "fixed" the whole criminal population flees justice from murderers to bus drivers.

Aphisit's and Suthep's stand is truly admirable.

The reason those with a red affiliation don't like it is that it shows that one side has morals that Thai children can take example from at a time when corruption is so widely accepted. The other side doesn't despite having their "government" in power and their arms around a few authorities' throats.

Mr. Thaksin was never accused of using the military against the civilian population. Nor have any of the others you mention.

There are some who blame Mr. Thaksin for the casualties, as the country attempted to stop the narco terrorist drug cartels from taking control of Thailand. There were multiple investigations, none of which Mr. Thaksin fled from. The two main investigations occurred while Mr. Thaksin was in the country. None of the investigations were able to support charges against Mr. Thaksin.

There is a distinct difference between using a nation's military against its civilian population and allegations related to civil and common criminal allegations.

[

Of course they are taking a moral stand and one to be applauded by the nation.

Ever since Thaksin, Chalerm's sons, Arisman and the rest set the tone for fleeing from justice for enough time to get things illegally "fixed" the whole criminal population flees justice from murderers to bus drivers.

Aphisit's and Suthep's stand is truly admirable.

The reason those with a red affiliation don't like it is that it shows that one side has morals that Thai children can take example from at a time when corruption is so widely accepted. The other side doesn't despite having their "government" in power and their arms around a few authorities' throats.

Mr. Thaksin was never accused of using the military against the civilian population. Nor have any of the others you mention.

There are some who blame Mr. Thaksin for the casualties, as the country attempted to stop the narco terrorist drug cartels from taking control of Thailand. There were multiple investigations, none of which Mr. Thaksin fled from. The two main investigations occurred while Mr. Thaksin was in the country. None of the investigations were able to support charges against Mr. Thaksin.

There is a distinct difference between using a nation's military against its civilian population and allegations related to civil and common criminal allegations.

Mr. Thaksin?

This will be a hard concept for Thaksin and his PTP lackeys to understand - that someone would take a stance on a moral position where there is no benefit to themselves.

I don't see any Democrat Minister taking a moral stand. Mores the pity.

As for former PM Abhisit he appears to have broken all of the rules of moral conduct in his handling of the Redshirt demonstration in the Thai Capital thus being directly or indirectly responsible for much loss of life. Given his illustrious UK education at the seat of the greatest law makers on the planet his actions puzzle law abiding members of the Thai public.

Of course they are taking a moral stand and one to be applauded by the nation.

Ever since Thaksin, Chalerm's sons, Arisman and the rest set the tone for fleeing from justice for enough time to get things illegally "fixed" the whole criminal population flees justice from murderers to bus drivers.

Aphisit's and Suthep's stand is truly admirable.

The reason those with a red affiliation don't like it is that it shows that one side has morals that Thai children can take example from at a time when corruption is so widely accepted. The other side doesn't despite having their "government" in power and their arms around a few authorities' throats.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

Nonsense.

The fleeing has been happening way before Thaksin came along. It's the way it has always been.

Chuan Leekpai's (Abhisit's mentor) own brother fled the country after allegedly embezzling from a Thai bank. Chuan also has a conviction from the National Anti-Corruption Commission for undeclared shares in a co-operative.

Suthep brought down Chuan's administration in the 90's with his corruption.

One side has morals? History says otherwise.

It saddens me to say that this government is so corrupt and one sided and one agenda to bring back their corrupt Evil Leader.... TS....

Ts is the one who should be standing trille for murder and All the other crimes he has committed.... When will justest ever come to?

Thailand Needs a new government that will truly care for it's people and not to just line pockets with Money from the Thai people....

This will be a hard concept for Thaksin and his PTP lackeys to understand - that someone would take a stance on a moral position where there is no benefit to themselves.

no benefit to themselves? you must be joking!! public image maybe?

they know100% that they won't be convicted... brave men my ring.

Ah yes, Public image. With that and $5 you'll get a cup of coffee at Starbucks. OTOH it's one of the few assets of the PM. But i was referring to real, tactile, folding or bankable type benefits - the sort PTP understands, and lusts after despite its stench.

As to the likelihood of a conviction, it seems you have some faith in the Thai court system. Whether it is totally immune to political manipulation is another argument.

you'd be a fool to think abhist/suthep think they'd actualy see any jail time for this.

they know it........ you know it.............. we all know it...............

nothing brave about their reaction whatsoever.

They are just wiping their brow with relief that it isn't the ICC (so far).

In the unlikely event that occurs, only then they would sweat!

They are just wiping their brow with relief that it isn't the ICC (so far).

In the unlikely event that occurs, only then they would sweat!

You are referring to the Thaksin cronies and his gang of thieves right?

They are just wiping their brow with relief that it isn't the ICC (so far).

In the unlikely event that occurs, only then they would sweat!

Carra?

Given that the ICC probably wouldn't intervene while the country is dealing with it, there is not much chance of the ICC getting involved.

It saddens me to say that this government is so corrupt and one sided and one agenda to bring back their corrupt Evil Leader.... TS....

Ts is the one who should be standing trille for murder and All the other crimes he has committed.... When will justest ever come to?

Thailand Needs a new government that will truly care for it's people and not to just line pockets with Money from the Thai people....

All goverments are corrupt,not only in this country.

sent from the jungle using my I pad drum kit

This will be a hard concept for Thaksin and his PTP lackeys to understand - that someone would take a stance on a moral position where there is no benefit to themselves.

no benefit to themselves? you must be joking!! public image maybe?

they know100% that they won't be convicted... brave men my ring.

Ah yes, Public image. With that and $5 you'll get a cup of coffee at Starbucks. OTOH it's one of the few assets of the PM. But i was referring to real, tactile, folding or bankable type benefits - the sort PTP understands, and lusts after despite its stench.

As to the likelihood of a conviction, it seems you have some faith in the Thai court system. Whether it is totally immune to political manipulation is another argument.

you'd be a fool to think abhist/suthep think they'd actualy see any jail time for this.

they know it........ you know it.............. we all know it...............

nothing brave about their reaction whatsoever.

I would have said the same about Thaksin, but this is the miracle year of amazing Thailand

They are just wiping their brow with relief that it isn't the ICC (so far).

In the unlikely event that occurs, only then they would sweat!

Don't worry, if and only if the Thai government officially let's the ICC investigate, the task will be well defined. Any aspects related to Pheu Thai party list MP UDD leaders will be off limit.

They are just wiping their brow with relief that it isn't the ICC (so far).

In the unlikely event that occurs, only then they would sweat!

Don't worry, if and only if the Thai government officially let's the ICC investigate, the task will be well defined. Any aspects related to Pheu Thai party list MP UDD leaders will be off limit.

Of course you are correct but these PTP numb nuts best be careful what they ask for. They just may get more than they bargained for. I expect the ICC would frown seriously on a two million Baht lunch box given to them to secure a favorable verdict for the PTP/red shirt gang.

All goverments are corrupt,not only in this country.

sent from the jungle using my I pad drum kit

Yes they are to one degree or another. But Thailand ranks right up there at the top with the blatant self-serving thievery. And that is the same no matter what "color" they are.

They are just wiping their brow with relief that it isn't the ICC (so far).

In the unlikely event that occurs, only then they would sweat!

Don't worry, if and only if the Thai government officially let's the ICC investigate, the task will be well defined. Any aspects related to Pheu Thai party list MP UDD leaders will be off limit.

Of course you are correct but these PTP numb nuts best be careful what they ask for. They just may get more than they bargained for. I expect the ICC would frown seriously on a two million Baht lunch box given to them to secure a favorable verdict for the PTP/red shirt gang.

Let the ICC investigation lead where it does. The UDD is begging for its' participation. Those who oppose reveal themselves.

Bottom line, advocates of ICC particpation and those who oppose it, speaks volumes, however they rationalize it.

Let the ICC investigation lead where it does. The UDD is begging for its' participation. Those who oppose reveal themselves.

That's the thing. The PTP are trying to define where it can lead.

Let the ICC investigation lead where it does. The UDD is begging for its' participation. Those who oppose reveal themselves.

Those people who are begging for the I.C.C. to become involved in Thailands judicial matters would be well advised to re-read the Aesop fable ''The King Of The Frogs.''

A salutatory lesson in being careful for what you wish for as you may well get it..

They are just wiping their brow with relief that it isn't the ICC (so far).

In the unlikely event that occurs, only then they would sweat!

Don't worry, if and only if the Thai government officially let's the ICC investigate, the task will be well defined. Any aspects related to Pheu Thai party list MP UDD leaders will be off limit.

Of course you are correct but these PTP numb nuts best be careful what they ask for. They just may get more than they bargained for. I expect the ICC would frown seriously on a two million Baht lunch box given to them to secure a favorable verdict for the PTP/red shirt gang.

Let the ICC investigation lead where it does. The UDD is begging for its' participation. Those who oppose reveal themselves.

The UDD leaders want the ICC to investigate the 92 deaths, or sometimes just 'our dead' (76). Plain and simple. No context information required, k. Jatuporn still has his Ghandi Tshirt. Robert A. still maintaining the ICC is really at it, real soon there may be progress, one-offish or so.

BTW the Economist article on k. Thaksin getting a bit desperate seems to have caught the attention of Robert A. and the PPT. Robert A. phrases it as 'PPT Rips the Economist for its Myopic Coverage of Thailand'. Just check out on http://robertamsterdam.com/thailand/

Interestingly enough I cannot see the PPT page Robert A. refers to. Blocked by the current government it seems

you'd be a fool to think abhist/suthep think they'd actualy see any jail time for this.

they know it........ you know it.............. we all know it...............

nothing brave about their reaction whatsoever.

People also thought that Thaksin would never be found guilty or heaven forbid be given prison time. Not because he had a strong defence but because they had seen the way he got off in an earlier case of hiding his assets, because his own party was in power, and because they knew he had deep pockets to pull off law-evading stunts like passing out lunch boxes packed with money. But he was found guilty and he was given prison time. Abhisit doesn't have the benefit of deep pockets like Thaksin, he doesn't have his own party in power. He does have some strings he can pull, but how strong those strings are, i'm not so sure. Certainly the military don't seem to bothered about him these days. Perhaps because it is him that is keeping the spotlight away from them.

The only real thing that would give Abhisit cause for confidence would be the strength of his case and the ridiculousness of the charge. Great. But this isn't a parking fine we are talking. This is a death sentence. Even if the chances are small, who would hang around for that possibility? Well we know Thaksin wouldn't.

Let the ICC investigation lead where it does. The UDD is begging for its' participation. Those who oppose reveal themselves.

Those people who are begging for the I.C.C. to become involved in Thailands judicial matters would be well advised to re-read the Aesop fable ''The King Of The Frogs.''

A salutatory lesson in being careful for what you wish for as you may well get it..

I presume the UDD has only one response, "bring it on!"

Let the ICC investigation lead where it does. The UDD is begging for its' participation. Those who oppose reveal themselves.

Those people who are begging for the I.C.C. to become involved in Thailands judicial matters would be well advised to re-read the Aesop fable ''The King Of The Frogs.''

A salutatory lesson in being careful for what you wish for as you may well get it..

I presume the UDD has only one response, "bring it on!"

Followed by the story of 'the wolf, the horse and the man'

Anyway, the OP is on 'death before amnesty bill, no compromise on whitewash Thaksin', not on whitewashing UDD leaders

What on earth is wrong... Murder Charge on the previous Prime minister....when Mr T went on a killing spree ... drug wars. If justice is found then Thailand should look into all cases. Mr T cannot even get a chinese passport to travel on....he had to go to Europe and get one there that will get him access into Asia.... Talk about loosing face! I guess his party members have to lend their face for him now. I hope not their brains too..... this is a circus. I hope justice will be done.