British And American Teachers Found Dead In Thai Home

[jbrain]

over 55 hours since the news broke. No new data from investigators? Oh, that's right, almost forgot, there are no real investigators (or investigations) in Thailand. Even if there were, they wouldn't want farang talking about this case. Better if we all forget about it, and go back thinking of Thailand as the ideal tourist destination, with flowers and blue skies, and colorful coral reefs and miles of trashless beaches, and smiling stewardesses as far as the eye can see.

Hmm, has it actually ever been like that ?

[Humbugged]

over 55 hours since the news broke. No new data from investigators? Oh, that's right, almost forgot, there are no real investigators (or investigations) in Thailand. Even if there were, they wouldn't want farang talking about this case. Better if we all forget about it, and go back thinking of Thailand as the ideal tourist destination, with flowers and blue skies, and colorful coral reefs and miles of trashless beaches, and smiling stewardesses as far as the eye can see.

Hmm, has it actually ever been like that ?

Yes....about 1am last friday night.

[classic-chassis]

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Generally opiates make the user fall to sleep, and then die if they have taken too many. Not like they were taking cyanide is it? Why would either of them stumble around the room? Probably both been sitting in the same position many times before. The wife knew what was going on, so it was nothing new for any of them.

They probably took a mixture of drugs, slowly drifted off to sleep feeling nice and fuzzy, never to wake again. As one poster has pointed out Methadone is potent long after the initial effects wear off.

I certainly don’t see the big mystery, or the murder theory. Couple of drugies pushing the envelope a little too far.

Edited December 10, 2012 by classic-chassis

[fakename]

I like the theory about the heater, that sounds like the best, since all condos in Thailand have heaters. Usually in Thailand, two people always die at the same time, it just natural here.

I, nor my gf, ever leave the house without a key, and if I did, surly wouldnt go to a hotel, if I couldnt get in. Just too many unusual things that dont make sense. Its probably useless to guess what they took or didnt take, because what ever it was, it could have been mixed with something extra, which we cant know about, unless the police do their work.

[razer]

I think it is time for embassies to have a CID team to "assist" and collect evidence when foreign nationals die under unusual circumstances. That includes collecting evidence at the scene. I think it would be a great asset for the Thai police, the government and TOT. Alternatively, when suspicious deaths become so common they become a joke, perhaps embassies should start issuing travel warnings to Thailand.

Edited December 10, 2012 by razer

[animatic]

You can take Valium and not be a recovering addict.

It has many normal medical uses besides just artificially induced stress reduction.

Muscle problems, back pain, knee injuries, neurological issues, etc.

Valium also was recreationally in the past, but not that much anymore.

It also could be quite addictive, and became less proscribed because of that.

You could drink alcohol with it an not keel over,

you really had to do it stupidly to top yourself with it.

Edited December 10, 2012 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

I like the theory about the heater, that sounds like the best, since all condos in Thailand have heaters. Usually in Thailand, two people always die at the same time, it just natural here.

I, nor my gf, ever leave the house without a key, and if I did, surly wouldnt go to a hotel, if I couldnt get in. Just too many unusual things that dont make sense. Its probably useless to guess what they took or didnt take, because what ever it was, it could have been mixed with something extra, which we cant know about, unless the police do their work.

yeah, it's freezing right now..........

[classic-chassis]

Why do some posters say they died at the same time? They died on the same night. They probably fell into a drug induced stupor at the same time. There could have been hours between deaths though.

[skorchio]

Too funny. You, not me, suggested they ODed an diazepam and booze. I said should wait until mass spec or gas choreography run and let science not forum room speculation decide it. So how the heck am I now the one speculating.

I guess you were just trying to save face by flipping that on me, otherwise I am communication with alzeheimers patient. Conversation we had went about like this: Dad, want go for a walk today. No, I am not hungry. I already ate. . .

<deleted>, "gas choreography"? I laugh out loud. In Ireland these words would describe an amusing dance. If you have enough time on your hands to read and comment on a forum which is dedicated to those with not enough things to do, pls use some of that internet time to research the terms you use. You are supposedly referring to 'gas chromatography', a process used in identifying chemical compounds. Earlier in this forum I read 'obnoxious fumes', perhaps that was a reference to a fart?

[animatic]

Too funny. You, not me, suggested they ODed an diazepam and booze. I said should wait until mass spec or gas choreography run and let science not forum room speculation decide it. So how the heck am I now the one speculating.

I guess you were just trying to save face by flipping that on me, otherwise I am communication with alzeheimers patient. Conversation we had went about like this: Dad, want go for a walk today. No, I am not hungry. I already ate. . .

<deleted>, "gas choreography"? I laugh out loud. In Ireland these words would describe an amusing dance. If you have enough time on your hands to read and comment on a forum which is dedicated to those with not enough things to do, pls use some of that internet time to research the terms you use. You are supposedly referring to 'gas chromatography', a process used in identifying chemical compounds. Earlier in this forum I read 'obnoxious fumes', perhaps that was a reference to a fart?

"Gas chromatography (GC), is a common type of chromatography used in analytical chemistry

for separating and analyzing compounds that can be vaporized without decomposition."

"Mass spectrometry (MS) is an analytical technique that measures the mass-to-charge ratio of charged particles.^[1] It is used for determining masses of particles, for determining the elemental composition of a sample or molecule, and for elucidating the chemical structures of molecules, such as peptides and other chemical compounds."

"A toxicology test checks blood, urine, or saliva for the presence of drugs or chemicals. In rare cases, stomach contents or sweat may also be checked.

Drugs can be accidentally or deliberately swallowed, inhaled, injected, or absorbed through a skin surface or

mucous membrane. These include prescription medicines, non-prescription medicine (such as ASA or acetaminophen), vitamins, nutritional supplements, alcohol, and illegal drugs, such as cocaine and heroin.

A toxicology test may check for one specific drug or for up to 30 different drugs at once. Testing is often done on a urine or saliva sample instead of blood, because urine and saliva tests are usually easier to do than blood tests and many drugs show up in either urine or saliva. Traces of a drug may remain in urine longer than in blood. Urine tests often can detect drug use within the last 5 days. Saliva testing can detect drugs used within the past day."

"If the test is used as a drug screen, it must be done during a certain time period after the drug has been taken or while forms of the drug can still be detected in the body. Examples are below:

• Alcohol: 3 to 10 hours
  
• Amphetamines: 24 to 48 hours
  
• Barbiturates: up to 6 weeks
  
• Benzodiazepines: up to 6 weeks with high level use
  
• Cocaine: 2 to 4 days; up to 10 to 22 days with heavy use
  
• Codeine: 1 to 2 days
  
• Heroin: 1 to 2 days
  
• Hydromorphone: 1 to 2 days
  
• Methadone: 2 to 3 days
  
• Morphine: 1 to 2 days
  
• Phencyclidine (PCP): 1 to 8 days
  
• Propoxyphene: 6 to 48 hours
  
• Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC): 6 to 11 weeks with heavy use"
  

"

Toxicologists, chemists, and pathologists all need to be involved to correctly interpret results.

''The first thing we would do is a basic screen for drugs in the urine and in the blood," Magnani says. The search would be for drugs such as opiates,

amphetamines, marijuana, alcohol, and barbiturates, she says.

The basic toxicology screen typically uses an immunoassay, Robin says. This type of test looks for drugs in the blood using specific antibodies that detect various classes of drugs.

If something shows up, a more sophisticated test is done, using techniques such as mass spectrometry, which can identify chemicals in substances by their mass and charge.

"These confirmatory methods are actually more sensitive," Robin says. "You can find lower quantities [of the substance]."

The more sophisticated tests can tell experts the exact concentration of the drug or other substance, says Hall, who is also clinical assistant professor of public health at Weatherford College in Weatherford, Texas.

Experts also can determine if two drugs found together may have had a synergistic effect -- which happens when two drugs similar in their actions produce an exaggerated effect when taken together. It's akin to ''one plus one equals five," Robins says.

Experts have to determine if the drug or other substances found in the specimens are a therapeutic dose, a toxic dose, or a lethal dose -- whether they contributed to the death or caused the death."

[classic-chassis]

Obnoxious gas=a fart! That's funny.

[Nana Cowboy]

John Paul Getty III took a near lethal combo of methadone, alcohol and Valium. Must be a deadly combo of substances if these guys took a bunch of all 3. Of course we dont know if they did

Getty was an alcoholic and drug addict. In 1981, taking a cocktail of valium, methadone and alcohol resulted in liver failure and a strokewhich left him quadriplegic and nearly blind.^[10]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Getty_III}

[tinfoilhat]

just think, if someone had farted on top of all that, he probably would have died

[maidu]

I think it is time for embassies to have a CID team to "assist" and collect evidence when foreign nationals die under unusual circumstances. That includes collecting evidence at the scene. I think it would be a great asset for the Thai police, the government and TOT. Alternatively, when suspicious deaths become so common they become a joke, perhaps embassies should start issuing travel warnings to Thailand.

Thai investigators need foreign experts in such circumstances. They've proven, month by month, that they're either unwilling or unable to do an objective, thorough, and professional job. Thais could also benefit by having farang run their gov't institutions, but that's another topic.

[F430murci]

Too funny. You, not me, suggested they ODed an diazepam and booze. I said should wait until mass spec or gas choreography run and let science not forum room speculation decide it. So how the heck am I now the one speculating.

I guess you were just trying to save face by flipping that on me, otherwise I am communication with alzeheimers patient. Conversation we had went about like this: Dad, want go for a walk today. No, I am not hungry. I already ate. . .

<deleted>, "gas choreography"? I laugh out loud. In Ireland these words would describe an amusing dance. If you have enough time on your hands to read and comment on a forum which is dedicated to those with not enough things to do, pls use some of that internet time to research the terms you use. You are supposedly referring to 'gas chromatography', a process used in identifying chemical compounds. Earlier in this forum I read 'obnoxious fumes', perhaps that was a reference to a fart?

iPhone autocorrect . . . Regardless, you understood what was meant so no need for pontification.

[F430murci]

Too funny. You, not me, suggested they ODed an diazepam and booze. I said should wait until mass spec or gas choreography run and let science not forum room speculation decide it. So how the heck am I now the one speculating.

I guess you were just trying to save face by flipping that on me, otherwise I am communication with alzeheimers patient. Conversation we had went about like this: Dad, want go for a walk today. No, I am not hungry. I already ate. . .

<deleted>, "gas choreography"? I laugh out loud. In Ireland these words would describe an amusing dance. If you have enough time on your hands to read and comment on a forum which is dedicated to those with not enough things to do, pls use some of that internet time to research the terms you use. You are supposedly referring to 'gas chromatography', a process used in identifying chemical compounds. Earlier in this forum I read 'obnoxious fumes', perhaps that was a reference to a fart?

"Gas chromatography (GC), is a common type of chromatography used in analytical chemistry

for separating and analyzing compounds that can be vaporized without decomposition."

"Mass spectrometry (MS) is an analytical technique that measures the mass-to-charge ratio of charged particles.^[1] It is used for determining masses of particles, for determining the elemental composition of a sample or molecule, and for elucidating the chemical structures of molecules, such as peptides and other chemical compounds."

"A toxicology test checks blood, urine, or saliva for the presence of drugs or chemicals. In rare cases, stomach contents or sweat may also be checked.

Drugs can be accidentally or deliberately swallowed, inhaled, injected, or absorbed through a skin surface or

mucous membrane. These include prescription medicines, non-prescription medicine (such as ASA or acetaminophen), vitamins, nutritional supplements, alcohol, and illegal drugs, such as cocaine and heroin.

A toxicology test may check for one specific drug or for up to 30 different drugs at once. Testing is often done on a urine or saliva sample instead of blood, because urine and saliva tests are usually easier to do than blood tests and many drugs show up in either urine or saliva. Traces of a drug may remain in urine longer than in blood. Urine tests often can detect drug use within the last 5 days. Saliva testing can detect drugs used within the past day."

"If the test is used as a drug screen, it must be done during a certain time period after the drug has been taken or while forms of the drug can still be detected in the body. Examples are below:

• Alcohol: 3 to 10 hours
  
• Amphetamines: 24 to 48 hours
  
• Barbiturates: up to 6 weeks
  
• Benzodiazepines: up to 6 weeks with high level use
  
• Cocaine: 2 to 4 days; up to 10 to 22 days with heavy use
  
• Codeine: 1 to 2 days
  
• Heroin: 1 to 2 days
  
• Hydromorphone: 1 to 2 days
  
• Methadone: 2 to 3 days
  
• Morphine: 1 to 2 days
  
• Phencyclidine (PCP): 1 to 8 days
  
• Propoxyphene: 6 to 48 hours
  
• Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC): 6 to 11 weeks with heavy use"
  

"

Toxicologists, chemists, and pathologists all need to be involved to correctly interpret results.

''The first thing we would do is a basic screen for drugs in the urine and in the blood," Magnani says. The search would be for drugs such as opiates,

amphetamines, marijuana, alcohol, and barbiturates, she says.

The basic toxicology screen typically uses an immunoassay, Robin says. This type of test looks for drugs in the blood using specific antibodies that detect various classes of drugs.

If something shows up, a more sophisticated test is done, using techniques such as mass spectrometry, which can identify chemicals in substances by their mass and charge.

"These confirmatory methods are actually more sensitive," Robin says. "You can find lower quantities [of the substance]."

The more sophisticated tests can tell experts the exact concentration of the drug or other substance, says Hall, who is also clinical assistant professor of public health at Weatherford College in Weatherford, Texas.

Experts also can determine if two drugs found together may have had a synergistic effect -- which happens when two drugs similar in their actions produce an exaggerated effect when taken together. It's akin to ''one plus one equals five," Robins says.

Experts have to determine if the drug or other substances found in the specimens are a therapeutic dose, a toxic dose, or a lethal dose -- whether they contributed to the death or caused the death."

Rather simple. Mass spec is utilized to rule out false positives, confirm exactly what is in blood stream and then ratios are examined in relation to time ingested and how the substance is metabolized such as hepatic first pass.

[saakura]

I read they were employed by a run of the mill franchise type language institute and not an international school?

Not all international schools have the highest of standards. And there are all kinds of folks in more important/harder to get to positions leading double lives.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies have been deleted.

Please stay on the topic and refrain from extremely derogatory remarks about the deceased.

[elektrified]

drugs kill everywhere, but many are unaware of the dangers

Where was there any mention of drugs? Or du you know something about the deaths?

The linked "full story" is where the drugs are mentioned.

A single "pang" of Valium... Nothing unusual about that -- and hardly enough to do 2 grown men in...

[elektrified]

check facebook page rangsit appartment ---- insecticide

Bingo....very interesting and dare I say coincidental???...

[TommoPhysicist]

From a friend who went to his funeral today in Robin Hood Bay.

"Have just got back from Charlie Milsom's funeral at St Stephen's Church just along from our house. They're burying him right now but we've escaped. It's very wet out there. I understand people helped with the cost of bringing him home.

His friend Luke had composed an excellent eulogy of childhood memories, which the vicar Michael Waters (our choirmaster) read. I wrote a bit from us 4 in book of condolences: So sad to see such a bright light go out.

We sang Good King Wenceslas, (it being the Feast of St Stephen today)"

Edited December 22, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[lovelaos]

.

Seems odd that two men should die at around about the same time in the same room. Very odd. But if you think about it, and if they were both drug and alcohol users who had both used drugs and alcohol together and had acquired the same tolerance level to the drugs and alcohol perhaps it is not that strange that they both checked out at the same time after a heavy session. A mix of alcohol and barbs along with methadone and some solvent abuse would have probably been sufficient for them to both die. One egging the other on etc.

They both had relatively responsible jobs and after googling the name of one it seems he is a photographer and IT/graphic design teacher with a degree.

Hardly seem likely candidates for being hard drug takers or alcoholics.

So photographers, IT/graphic design teachers with degrees don't do drugs or drink alcohol?

Do you live on the same planet as the rest of us?