British And American Teachers Found Dead In Thai Home

[nurofiend]

There are several posts that are concluding that these guys were users. They would have to be rookies to make this level of a mistake so they would not be hard core users. If they were in fact users then they would be savvy enough to know better about the mixture.

and if they weren't regular users, they could have drank one too many bottles of samsung and swallowed a load of diazepams, it's not like they're expensive, so even if they're not used to taking them it can happen with the 'wrong' combo.

anyway, this is my last post in this thread, respect for the dead and don't want to prolonge arguments with people with nothing better to do.

Edited December 9, 2012 by nurofiend

[animatic]

She forced the door open with a guard,

because the men didn't respond to her trying to get in....

EVEN BASHING THE F'n DOOR IN....

So she assumed they were so drugged up when she saw them sitting nodded out in chairs,

that she just went to bed..... and didn't even check them till 5 am..

Right, and pigs fly...

As likely :

They drank from the same bottle, that she'd tab'd before she went to work,

but she wasn't expecting him to have company drinking.

She said nothing, disposed of it after the guard left,

and waited till later to say anything.

And now she gets the condo to herself.

Two men dying of 'apparently the same thing', found sitting in chairs,

with totally different medical histories,

and one common location and one common 'witness',

who had access to the house and all it's contents.

[meatboy]

all you guys that are speculating need to go out and buy the thai-rath the scene with the 2 deceased is on the front page.

[circusman]

The Diazepam found in the room mixed with alcohol gives a strong high. If the body is a bit dehydrated it is very easy for clogs to form in veins. Although the report don't say if they found alcohol in the room.

Valium gives NO high. It is a muscle relaxant. Mixed with alcohol it is dangerous.

[chrisinth]

If they were sick, they likely wouldn't have choked on their vomit. This is the usual killer when people are lying on their backs, not what they have consumed (alcohol, drugs, solvents, etc) beforehand.

Not sure what you mean by "If they were sick they wouldn't of died"?

Your point is taken but they were sitting up.

My point was that people die from choking on vomit because they have passed out from the substance abuse they have already administered to their bodies are usually in the supine position, face upwards.

As the both of them were in a sitting position, it would be unlikely that vomit caused death, but rather the effects of whatever concoction was in their systems.

[frankold]

The Diazepam found in the room mixed with alcohol gives a strong high. If the body is a bit dehydrated it is very easy for clogs to form in veins. Although the report don't say if they found alcohol in the room.

Valium gives NO high. It is a muscle relaxant. Mixed with alcohol it is dangerous.

You obviously have no idea what your talking about. Drink 5x beers then take 20mg of diazepam and tell me you don't feel high. You'd be away with the fairys.

[chrisinth]

She forced the door open with a guard,

because the men didn't respond to her trying to get in....

EVEN BASHING THE F'n DOOR IN....

So she assumed they were so drugged up when she saw them sitting nodded out in chairs,

that she just went to bed..... and didn't even check them till 5 am..

Right, and pigs fly...

As likely :

They drank from the same bottle, that she'd tab'd before she went to work,

but she wasn't expecting him to have company drinking.

She said nothing, disposed of it after the guard left,

and waited till later to say anything.

And now she gets the condo to herself.

Two men dying of 'apparently the same thing', found sitting in chairs,

with totally different medical histories,

and one common location and one common 'witness',

who had access to the house and all it's contents.

#177 from rogerdee123

"The article says the door was double locked which I presumed meant it was locked with deadbolt (or similar) from inside. The security guard "forced open" the door"

http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915256

Nowhere that I have seen on this thread does it say that the Thai woman saw the two sitting there, left them & went to bed. The door was opened by force the next morning by the security guard.

Unless I have missed something?

#180 from Tazwa

"According to a report from a well known Bangkok newspaper website, the wife had just returned from work at the Ministry of Science and Technology"

Full post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/603615-british-and-american-teachers-found-dead-in-thai-home/page__st__175#entry5915287

animatic, you certainly seem to be tarring all Thais with the same brush with your post. Perhaps you should re-read it.

[matt helm]

What are the odds of two young men dying together in a room coming on the heels of the exact same thing happening last week with the Canadian and Australian. I'd like to know how many people have read about this sort of thing in their own countries because I can't remember reading any.

[MaxYakov]

The Diazepam found in the room mixed with alcohol gives a strong high. If the body is a bit dehydrated it is very easy for clogs to form in veins. Although the report don't say if they found alcohol in the room.

Valium gives NO high. It is a muscle relaxant. Mixed with alcohol it is dangerous.

Yes, Valium apparently is dangerous if mixed with alcohol, but is also both psychologically and physiologically addictive according to this Valium Addiction Help site:

http://www.valiumadd...and-other-drugs

As far as it's being a muscle relaxant, perhaps the drug's (Diazepam) documented (Wiki-documented, that is) characteristics, medical application and potential side effects should be considered:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam

Edited December 9, 2012 by MaxYakov

[moskito]

What a load of crap! Diazapam is well know as Valium. It's not a strong drug. There wasn't any mention of milligram dosage. Yellow are 5 mg and blue are 10mg. Unless they took a lot of blues and drank a liter or more of whiskey each, there's no way they died from an over dose of valium.

I believe the brand name Valium has not been mentioned in news reports. Not all brands and generic products of diazepam have the same colours.

sorry, but when I look at this picture the whole story is very hard to belive... WHO dies like this? sitting in a chair and not even making an attemped to get up?? looks like they just fall asleep and died, not even slipped down out of the chair?? I am not a criminalist but it lookes kind of staged...

[davejones]

I hope somebody will ask for an autopsy. That is the only way to go to determine what was the real cause of death. Somebody also will have to reexamine the Crime Scene and find that little element that has been overlooked. Everything else, you are all right, is just idle speculation.

I hope your joking. An autopsy in this country goes to prove nothing at all. In fact, 9 times out of 10 it will bring more questions than answers.

As for the "crime scene", I'm sure it's been trampled over by BIB and the press and then the gf probably came in to do a full cleanup. No chance preserving a crime scene for Matlock is this country.

There is nothing at all to suggest it's a crime, so there's no crime scene to preserve.

[MaxYakov]

What are the odds of two young men dying together in a room coming on the heels of the exact same thing happening last week with the Canadian and Australian. I'd like to know how many people have read about this sort of thing in their own countries because I can't remember reading any.

That's funny. I don't remember reading about any either:

Two Western Men Found Dead in Bangkok Hotel Room (Yeah, the 'other' one):

http://tastythailand...ug-involvement/

Two Men Found Behind Trash Bin - Drug Overdose Suspected - Boston:

http://www.bostonglo...lVUP/story.html

Two Men Die in Sauna - UK:

http://www.dailymail...-gay-sauna.html

Two Men Die - Lansing, MI - Murder Suicide:

http://www.basehorin...murder-suicide/

Two Men Die of Deadly Gases - UK:

http://www.dailymail...kers-eight.html

Two Men Killed - Eastern New Orleans Hotel Room:

http://www.nola.com/...der-double.html

Two Men Killed - Suspected Illegal Boarding House Explosion/Fire:

http://articles.pasa...ent-spokeswoman

Two Men Died in 'Diego' Mudslides - Trinidad:

http://333.thedailyh...mudslides-.html

I suppose this would count too:

Strange Death of Two Sisters in Thailand

http://www.wired.com...rs-in-thailand/

Oh, well. It must be just my amnesia acting up again ...

It does make me wonder if there is a Thai insurance carrier that will cover tandem drug 'accident' deaths.

To the departed, RIP.

Edited December 9, 2012 by MaxYakov

[Tazwa]

She forced the door open with a guard,

because the men didn't respond to her trying to get in....

EVEN BASHING THE F'n DOOR IN....

So she assumed they were so drugged up when she saw them sitting nodded out in chairs,

that she just went to bed..... and didn't even check them till 5 am..

Right, and pigs fly...

As likely :

They drank from the same bottle, that she'd tab'd before she went to work,

but she wasn't expecting him to have company drinking.

She said nothing, disposed of it after the guard left,

and waited till later to say anything.

And now she gets the condo to herself.

Two men dying of 'apparently the same thing', found sitting in chairs,

with totally different medical histories,

and one common location and one common 'witness',

who had access to the house and all it's contents.

#177 from rogerdee123

"The article says the door was double locked which I presumed meant it was locked with deadbolt (or similar) from inside. The security guard "forced open" the door"

http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915256

Nowhere that I have seen on this thread does it say that the Thai woman saw the two sitting there, left them & went to bed. The door was opened by force the next morning by the security guard.

Unless I have missed something?

#180 from Tazwa

"According to a report from a well known Bangkok newspaper website, the wife had just returned from work at the Ministry of Science and Technology"

Full post: http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915287

animatic, you certainly seem to be tarring all Thais with the same brush with your post. Perhaps you should re-read it.

Chrisinth, yes you have missed something, but not in this thread. If you read the Bangkok Post report you will see the wife never came home from work in the morning, she came home at night. And yes, she did see the two men but presumed they were dozing off and she then went to bed.

Describing a door as being "double locked" as the wife did does not necessarily mean there were two keyed locks. If I locked one door from the inside and then used one of those chain type devices I would still describe it as being double locked.

[maidu]

I hope somebody will ask for an autopsy. That is the only way to go to determine what was the real cause of death. Somebody also will have to reexamine the Crime Scene and find that little element that has been overlooked. Everything else, you are all right, is just idle speculation.

There is only one person in Thailand who might be able to do a professional autopsy, and we don't know whether she will be involved.

These types of threads are painful. Opinions are offered based upon incomplete short news items. How many times does it have to be said? The facts are not established and as we have seen time and time again, the details will change as more information is made public. I won't comment on the story except to say, that I will wait until there are actual facts established. We do a disservice to ourselves when we allow speculation to overtake common sense.

You are assuming Thai authorities will do a professional job. That's a BIG assumption. It's more likely they will do nothing, and hope it all blows away and/or get wiped from peoples' consciousness when the next unsolved deaths show up in the news.

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman". This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol. There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

The speculations are largely because Thai authorities are notorious for either doing nothing or coming to wrong-headed conclusions. Can you admit that 2 ordinarily healthy men died under mysterious circumstances? Let's hope other men and women don't die similarly. Perhaps a modicum of what's posted here might preclude other untimely deaths. Plus, how can you be 100% sure there was no 'foul play.' Were you at the scene? If I died mysteriously, I would welcome others (strangers, whomever) speculating on cause of death. If nothing else, it might help others avoid a similar fate, and it might assist with finding a perpetrator, it there was one. I can promise you, none of my (very few) relatives would mind one iota.

- edited for spelling

Edited December 9, 2012 by maidu

[SteeleJoe]

ENOUGH WITH THE BIZARRE SPECULATION!!!!

One of these men was my friend. I just got off the phone with his girlfriend, "the woman".

This is a tragic event that involved NO FOUL PLAY except for the accidental mix of drugs and alcohol.

There, now you can all get back to something more important.

Thank you, and PLEASE be respectful of the situation.

So you can confirm that he worked at Linguista for the last 4 years then, as you know him as a personal friend?

-mel.

Yes....of course, but why? I worked with him in his previous job.

I merely tried to end all the bizarre speculations that is often

a result from these tragedies. I was only trying to help.

Aha! The name of the school is "Inlingua" not "Linguista"! If you worked there, you'd know that!

Sorry.. This CSI Forum is very seductive...

[Roel]

Mosikto said:

sorry, but when I look at this picture the whole story is very hard to belive... WHO dies like this?

They did.

sitting in a chair and not even making an attemped to get up??

Apparently not able to do so (for whatever reason).

looks like they just fall asleep and died, not even slipped down out of the chair??

Why would they slip out of these kind of chairs?

I am not a criminalist but it lookes kind of staged..

If you WERE a criminalist you probably concluded it was NOT staged because it looks unnatural/uncommon and it is highly unlikely that a murderer would have put them in such positions.

But then, there is no murderer. A sad case of two young drug users overdosing or taking a lethal cocktail of whatever substance(s) it was. RIP guys and condolences to the families and especially to the Thai wife who just lost her husband and hopefully does not read this forum.

[maidu]

The photo doesn't show alcohol containers and I don't see any puke. It does look staged. If a grown man's body stops working in a chair, he is likely to slide or slump down - over the side or down to the floor. Still unanswered questions, and it's no surprise there are no updates from authorities.

[PoodMaiDai]

That are also my thoughts. No other possibility that 2 people sitting next to each other and awake can die at exactly the same time without the other one noticing anything strange going on.

Such a thing is perfectly normal in Thailand.

[Briggsy]

No vomit.

Hands nicely folded in laps.

But foot bent over at odd angle. (as body was pulled up into sitting position)

T-shirt pushed up (as body was pulled up into sitting position)

Both facing the same way very neatly.

I'm not having it. Someone has arranged this.

I also live in a condo. It has 4 locks on the door.

1) a Yale lock (can be locked and unlocked from the outside and inside)

2) a deadlock (can be locked and unlocked from the outside and inside)

3) a chain (can be locked and unlocked from the inside only)

4) a bolt ( can be locked and unlocked from the inside only)

When I go out, I lock 1) and 2). The door is now double locked.

[Roel]

No vomit.

Hands nicely folded in laps.

But foot bent over at odd angle. (as body was pulled up into sitting position)

T-shirt pushed up (as body was pulled up into sitting position)

Both facing the same way very neatly.

I'm not having it. Someone has arranged this.

I also live in a condo. It has 4 locks on the door.

1) a Yale lock (can be locked and unlocked from the outside and inside)

2) a deadlock (can be locked and unlocked from the outside and inside)

3) a chain (can be locked and unlocked from the inside only)

4) a bolt ( can be locked and unlocked from the inside only)

When I go out, I lock 1) and 2). The door is now double locked.

But then why WOULD anybody arrange this? If the bodies were on the floor, why not leave them there? What is the suggestion/alibi-factor with the upright positions?

[MEL1]

I also live in a condo. It has 4 locks on the door.

1) a Yale lock (can be locked and unlocked from the outside and inside)

I'm not having you have a Yale lock on your condo door, unless you fitted it yourself!!

They don't exist on Thai properties!

-mel.

[chrisinth]

She forced the door open with a guard,

because the men didn't respond to her trying to get in....

EVEN BASHING THE F'n DOOR IN....

So she assumed they were so drugged up when she saw them sitting nodded out in chairs,

that she just went to bed..... and didn't even check them till 5 am..

Right, and pigs fly...

As likely :

They drank from the same bottle, that she'd tab'd before she went to work,

but she wasn't expecting him to have company drinking.

She said nothing, disposed of it after the guard left,

and waited till later to say anything.

And now she gets the condo to herself.

Two men dying of 'apparently the same thing', found sitting in chairs,

with totally different medical histories,

and one common location and one common 'witness',

who had access to the house and all it's contents.

#177 from rogerdee123

"The article says the door was double locked which I presumed meant it was locked with deadbolt (or similar) from inside. The security guard "forced open" the door"

http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915256

Nowhere that I have seen on this thread does it say that the Thai woman saw the two sitting there, left them & went to bed. The door was opened by force the next morning by the security guard.

Unless I have missed something?

#180 from Tazwa

"According to a report from a well known Bangkok newspaper website, the wife had just returned from work at the Ministry of Science and Technology"

Full post: http://www.thaivisa....75#entry5915287

animatic, you certainly seem to be tarring all Thais with the same brush with your post. Perhaps you should re-read it.

Chrisinth, yes you have missed something, but not in this thread. If you read the Bangkok Post report you will see the wife never came home from work in the morning, she came home at night. And yes, she did see the two men but presumed they were dozing off and she then went to bed.

Describing a door as being "double locked" as the wife did does not necessarily mean there were two keyed locks. If I locked one door from the inside and then used one of those chain type devices I would still describe it as being double locked.

K, thanks for that, I haven't read the article in the other paper, just basing observation on this thread. Seems to be a conflict in reporting (no surprise really) as I have read here that she returned early, got no reply and booked into a hotel until the morning.

Without all the facts, it is pure speculation anyway................

[Briggsy]

No vomit.

Hands nicely folded in laps.

But foot bent over at odd angle. (as body was pulled up into sitting position)

T-shirt pushed up (as body was pulled up into sitting position)

Both facing the same way very neatly.

I'm not having it. Someone has arranged this.

I also live in a condo. It has 4 locks on the door.

1) a Yale lock (can be locked and unlocked from the outside and inside)

2) a deadlock (can be locked and unlocked from the outside and inside)

3) a chain (can be locked and unlocked from the inside only)

4) a bolt ( can be locked and unlocked from the inside only)

When I go out, I lock 1) and 2). The door is now double locked.

But then why WOULD anybody arrange this? If the bodies were on the floor, why not leave them there? What is the suggestion/alibi-factor with the upright positions?

Because you were involved in the drugs in some way, taking, procuring, preparing or just being there. When the two got taken ill, rather than call an ambulance, you put their unconscious bodies back on the chairs to sleep it off. Maybe you have done it before. Maybe there was other evidence that you wanted to remove before the authorities saw the scene. Maybe you wanted to clean up. Maybe you were in a complete panic and were not thinking straight.

Also, there is the possibility that the police, the untrained rescue boys, the security guard, the press put the bodies on the chairs. The police have messed up crime scenes before and have moved bodies around to give photographers a better photo in their opinion.

Sitting neatly on the chairs like that is so unlikely and given the reliability of the sources here, I don't believe it.

[tinfoilhat]

it would seem candid commentary on the value of the baseless spceculation to be found on this thread is not appreciated.

One can only conclude that such idiocy is not only condoned it is encouraged around here.

[Osiris]

Mosikto said:

sorry, but when I look at this picture the whole story is very hard to belive... WHO dies like this?

They did.

sitting in a chair and not even making an attemped to get up??

Apparently not able to do so (for whatever reason).

looks like they just fall asleep and died, not even slipped down out of the chair??

Why would they slip out of these kind of chairs?

I am not a criminalist but it lookes kind of staged..

If you WERE a criminalist you probably concluded it was NOT staged because it looks unnatural/uncommon and it is highly unlikely that a murderer would have put them in such positions.

But then, there is no murderer. A sad case of two young drug users overdosing or taking a lethal cocktail of whatever substance(s) it was. RIP guys and condolences to the families and especially to the Thai wife who just lost her husband and hopefully does not read this forum.

Post like yours bring out the logic in me, which something your statement lacks completely.

Here's the real deal; It was staged! It was a murder! There is no way in hell that two people with different genetics die at exactly the same time from the same drug, or poison, without trying to help the other person. Full stop!

The Thai woman, for whom you are gushing with compassion, doesn't need to read this forum, because she is probably in it neck deep.

I sincerely doubt this will ever be solved because it is was done by a Thai against a farang. A truthful revelation would only lead to a reduction in tourist income. Are you Thai by chance?

[amykat]

There are several posts that are concluding that these guys were users. They would have to be rookies to make this level of a mistake so they would not be hard core users. If they were in fact users then they would be savvy enough to know better about the mixture.

So according to your logical conclusion, no experienced drug addicts/users would ever die in the world, only newbies?

[amykat]

I just looked up some info on methadone mortality ....in the US, in 2004, there were 3849 deaths attributed to methadone, 82% of which were listed as accidental and "most involved a combination of methadone with other drugs (especially benzodiazepines)."

The fact alone that one is taking methadone, would indicate that you are an experienced user of opiates, for whatever reason, and it would seem odd for a "newbie" drug user or pain medication user, to have the choice of even trying methadone ...it isn't a commonly found drug in your medicine cabinet, or available in the street.

[Thai at Heart]

Valium and booze should not be mixed right?

[Geekfreaklover]

.

Seems odd that two men should die at around about the same time in the same room. Very odd. But if you think about it, and if they were both drug and alcohol users who had both used drugs and alcohol together and had acquired the same tolerance level to the drugs and alcohol perhaps it is not that strange that they both checked out at the same time after a heavy session. A mix of alcohol and barbs along with methadone and some solvent abuse would have probably been sufficient for them to both die. One egging the other on etc.

My thoughts go to the family. It is not wise to start thinking about conspiracies just yet. A toxicology report should be requested and if not furnished by the Thai authorities then funded by the next of kin if deemed necessary

Edited December 9, 2012 by Geekfreaklover

[AntMan1]

I just looked up some info on methadone mortality ....in the US, in 2004, there were 3849 deaths attributed to methadone, 82% of which were listed as accidental and "most involved a combination of methadone with other drugs (especially benzodiazepines)."

The fact alone that one is taking methadone, would indicate that you are an experienced user of opiates, for whatever reason, and it would seem odd for a "newbie" drug user or pain medication user, to have the choice of even trying methadone ...it isn't a commonly found drug in your medicine cabinet, or available in the street.

OK i'm a stumped by your post, where has it been said that they were using methadone?

I hope i die in Thailand as it'll be good to have done a drug overdose, poisoned by my friends bird after eating his bacon and eggs, carbon monoxide poisoned, committed suicide etc etc..... all in the one death.