Traffic Growth In Chiangmai.

[cheeryble]

It's not just me.

Everyone I know has noticed an amazing increase in traffic all in just the last months.

On any of the main roads, Huay Kaew etc, it can take many changes of lights to get through.

Yesterday even coming in from the south on the canal rd to the Suthel junction it would have taken fifteen minutes to get through (to the next waits further up) had I not used some Italian Job tactics.

It has got to the point I am loathe to use the car and try to get on the motorbike.

I raise the topic as it has real repercussions.

Some ways into the city have bottlenecks whereby you really only have one choice of route.

Example Mae Rim.

You are (unless you really duck and dive) obliged to come through the lights on the MR road at the far end of the canal rd, near the bridge to Mae Jo. If this follows CM's lead, it will really affect life for those in MR.

So why the sudden increase?

Is it because of the stupidest policy I ever heard of, giving back 100,000 baht off the price of a new car if you're a first time buyer (amazing how many first time buyer grannies and second cousins there suddenly are). If you wanted to clog up crowded roads what could be stupider? I'm friendly with the owner of Suzuki. He told me he'd sold 1400 hatchbacks this year. I said what are you doing still working?

Is it time to move upcountry?

Edited December 9, 2012 by cheeryble

[NancyL]

Perhaps some of the traffic growth could be related to the holidays and beginning of tourist season -- with many in-country tourists. In scanning the license plates during recent Huey Kaew traffic jams, I see a lot of plates from provinces outside CM -- many, many from Bangkok.

I use song thaews and tuk-tuks and lately, song thaews have been reluctant to go to Huey Kaew -- even if I'm just going to KSK, after 3:30 pm when the traffic on Huey Kaew really starts to build.

[elektrified]

Was thinking the same thing yesterday. Took 30 minutes to get from Thannon Suthep to Huay Kaew on Nimmanhaemin in the afternoon. Have been going through 300 THB/day in gas lately. Every time I go in the car I get stuck in traffic and just waste gas. I'm getting sick of driving the car. I too, tried taking a red bus to KSK the other day and all drivers declined. What's up?

[BuddhaMind]

I appreciate the conversation about traffic and how to get around it. Always nice to know a secret route I've never found. Although sadly, I didn't see one in your post. But I'm a lot less interested in calling a 100,000B car purchase incentive "stupid." As though this countrywide program has anything to do with traffic in Chiang Mai. If you are so sensitive to traffic, forget about moving upcountry, just go for broke and move out of the country. Oh wait, you'll probably do the same complaining in your own country, so scratch that. Yeah, move upcountry. Somewhere inside Burma. Somewhere you'll wish you had traffic. And good restaurants. And shopping. And friends. Movies. A real city. With traffic.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Just wait until the big new mall is finished at Rincom intersection. Completion is said to be late 2013.

Oh Boy

Maybe it could help some of Huay Kaew traffic if people shop there and don't go to KSK.

[true blue]

Just wait until the big new mall is finished at Rincom intersection. Completion is said to be late 2013.

Oh Boy

Maybe it could help some of Huay Kaew traffic if people shop there and don't go to KSK.

ksk closing when new mall opens,its called progress,all this traffic,live with it,its happening in nearly every city around the world.

[Beanster1]

In the next two years I think we'll see a lot of traffic moving towards the East near the super highway with Central Festival and the Promenade opening. Airport plaza and KSK will see a drop off. Though there will still be tons of people wanting to head up to Doi Suthep during bank holidays and the high season.

[zippydedodah]

Just wait until the big new mall is finished at Rincom intersection. Completion is said to be late 2013.

Oh Boy

Maybe it could help some of Huay Kaew traffic if people shop there and don't go to KSK.

ksk closing when new mall opens,its called progress,all this traffic,live with it,its happening in nearly every city around the world.

what proof can anyone offer that KSK is closing when the new mall(s) open? I agree, there will be less of a rush to get to airport central plaza and KSK if there are more/better malls spread out around the greater CM area.... but who said anything about KSK closing?

Lastly: an interesting attempt at a traffic solution, if you ask me... don't need more people to drive to the malls and cause congestion... bring a mall to them! coming soon, near you.

[BlackArtemis]

Traffic is not progress. Progress is creating infrastructure such as mass transit options like sky rails and subways.

The 100,000B scheme is a large contributor, all you have to do is count the number of eco cars with red plates, know of at least 8 people who have gotten a car through this scheme.

The reality is that Thailand is not a proactive country, it's reactive. They won't realize the need for a subway or something similar until it is drastically needed and then plan on and take 10 years to do so... How long did those underpasses take again?

As for those saying "move if you don't like it", I'm sorry I didn't know we couldn't make negative observations or complaints about things in Chiang Mai, does traffic now fall under Lèse Majesté? Talk to Thais. they make the same observations and many want some sort of mass transit option as well.

[cheeryble]

I appreciate the conversation about traffic and how to get around it. Always nice to know a secret route I've never found. Although sadly, I didn't see one in your post. But I'm a lot less interested in calling a 100,000B car purchase incentive "stupid." As though this countrywide program has anything to do with traffic in Chiang Mai. If you are so sensitive to traffic, forget about moving upcountry, just go for broke and move out of the country. Oh wait, you'll probably do the same complaining in your own country, so scratch that. Yeah, move upcountry. Somewhere inside Burma. Somewhere you'll wish you had traffic. And good restaurants. And shopping. And friends. Movies. A real city. With traffic.

1. Make secret routes public? Huh?

2. The countrywide program is needed to help Bangkok as well as CM fill up it's roads? They didn't need to give away subsidies for smaller cars, just tax bigger engines......same as the US should do.

3. CM was great to drive five to ten years ago. Been getting worse but OK, whilst still enjoying friends and restaurants.

Now too much. Places north are fine and probably will be for a while, especially if the govt doesn't tempt people to buy more cars. No need to move to Burma.

4. "A real city. With traffic".......you mean like BKK?

5. How the hell are people going to access the new Huay Kaew mall by car? 5000 cars all doing illegal u turns at the end of the Superhwy?

Edited December 9, 2012 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

Perhaps some of the traffic growth could be related to the holidays and beginning of tourist season -- with many in-country tourists. In scanning the license plates during recent Huey Kaew traffic jams, I see a lot of plates from provinces outside CM -- many, many from Bangkok.

I use song thaews and tuk-tuks and lately, song thaews have been reluctant to go to Huey Kaew -- even if I'm just going to KSK, after 3:30 pm when the traffic on Huey Kaew really starts to build.

True about Bangkokians, more number plates visible.

As for beginning of holiday season, well, it happens every year, but the traffic not like this.

[TommoPhysicist]

Example Mae Rim.

You are (unless you really duck and dive) obliged to come through the lights on the MR road at the far end of the canal rd, near the bridge to Mae Jo. If this follows CM's lead, it will really affect life for those in MR.

From MR turn left onto the 121, right at the lights after the medium Tesco, right onto the road from MaeJo, right onto the superhighway, over the bridge and off at the big Tesco exit, left after big Tesco ..... that brings you out onto the moat. Very quick in a car.

Alternatively, use a m/c like everyone else ..... no delays at all then.

Edited December 9, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Asiantravel]

Is it because of the stupidest policy I ever heard of, giving back 100,000 baht off the price of a new car if you're a first time buyer (amazing how many first time buyer grannies and second cousins there suddenly are).

they can't manage traffic just like they can't manage water....

[cheeryble]

Example Mae Rim.

You are (unless you really duck and dive) obliged to come through the lights on the MR road at the far end of the canal rd, near the bridge to Mae Jo. If this follows CM's lead, it will really affect life for those in MR.

From MR turn left onto the 121, right at the lights after the medium Tesco, right onto the road from MaeJo, right onto the superhighway, over the bridge and off at the big Tesco exit, left after big Tesco ..... that brings you out onto the moat. Very quick in a car.

Alternatively, use a m/c like everyone else ..... no delays at all then.

Think I would prefer to follow the river road.

But yes, I tend to be using the Phantom more and more which is fine by me except there just are never enough panniers.

That ain't gonna change the meta-picture of more people and more jams though.

Edited December 9, 2012 by cheeryble

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Just wait until the big new mall is finished at Rincom intersection. Completion is said to be late 2013.

Oh Boy

Maybe it could help some of Huay Kaew traffic if people shop there and don't go to KSK.

ksk closing when new mall opens,its called progress,all this traffic,live with it,its happening in nearly every city around the world.

what proof can anyone offer that KSK is closing when the new mall(s) open? I agree, there will be less of a rush to get to airport central plaza and KSK if there are more/better malls spread out around the greater CM area.... but who said anything about KSK closing?

Lastly: an interesting attempt at a traffic solution, if you ask me... don't need more people to drive to the malls and cause congestion... bring a mall to them! coming soon, near you.

supposedly it's announced or at least considered that the Central Dept store in KSK will close because they are going into the new mall. No idea about the Tops.

If they were to lose those two large tenants then will be interesting to see what happens from there.

[Rancid]

Yeah, Huay Kaew, Nimmenhiemen area is a traffic nightmare that will only get worse, but hey it is worth it as you have close and easy access to...ah, coffee shops. I suppose if coffee was my lust I'd be over there as well, Changklan side still not too bad except in peak hour.

[cheeryble]

Changklan side still not too bad except in peak hour.

Chang Kian may become the worst when the exhibition centre opens and condos like the Westwind which are way too big for the infrastructure and access roads.

[jackr]

Traffic is not progress. Progress is creating infrastructure such as mass transit options like sky rails and subways.

The 100,000B scheme is a large contributor, all you have to do is count the number of eco cars with red plates, know of at least 8 people who have gotten a car through this scheme.

The reality is that Thailand is not a proactive country, it's reactive. They won't realize the need for a subway or something similar until it is drastically needed and then plan on and take 10 years to do so... How long did those underpasses take again?

As for those saying "move if you don't like it", I'm sorry I didn't know we couldn't make negative observations or complaints about things in Chiang Mai, does traffic now fall under Lèse Majesté? Talk to Thais. they make the same observations and many want some sort of mass transit option as well.

Indeed, folk who say that kind of stuff typically have very small brains and are all over this forum.

Lots more people have moved in this year, including loads of Bangkokians, Koreans and farang retirees, but the sudden increase is probably because of the extra tourists and more songthaews on the roads. You then have the cops ****ing about with the lights at random (sometimes holding green on the quieter roads), which doesn't make any difference bar having you sit in one spot longer. It ain't gonna get better as the city is growing without any structure and zero mass transit. CM is now the Bangkok of the north.

I think the 'move' solution is the best one, op.

[Ulysses G.]

One of my first memories of Chang Mai is how terrible the traffic was about 25 years ago. Of course, I mostly stayed in the Thapae Gate area back then and there was not a lot going on elsewhere.

[ThaiPauly]

I have been speaking about this problem to a few people in the last few days, everyone seems to be noticing it, I think the rebate scheme is having an effect. I know of someone who has brought a new car on finance that does not even hold a driving license, just so she could get the rebate. She has had the car 2 months and has not even driven it yet, her boyfriend drives it. How many others are doing this?

Has anybody noticed the amount of cars on the road that don't have any plates at all because the dealers have run out? they cannot keep up with the demand.

This has to be one of the worst thought out schemes that the government has sanctioned, putting more cars on the road is just what this city (or the country) does not need....heaven knows what effect it has had on Bangkok, but it can't be good.

I agree with the posters that are saying it takes much longer to get anywhere now and I can only see the problem getting worse

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It's not a linear thing; congestion gradually builds, but it's mostly not an issue, except that every 'squeeze' becomes a bigger traffic jam over time. Kind of like climate change; mostly not noticeable, but every extreme event becomes a little more extreme.

For example when it rains, when there is a VIP motorcade somewhere (like last #$(*$ Friday exactly during rush hour), a holiday (esp. Huay Kaew towards Doi Suthep) and so on. Then over time, those events become more and more troublesome.

Normally though, even around 5:45pm, it takes me all of 15 minutes to get from way out of town towards Sankamphaeng to the Thapae Gate area. So I'm not really complaining; extra traffic is to be expected as the city grows, which brings many benefits as well. It IS after all a city. I think it's best to stop trying to think about it as a tranquil Rose of the North, and more as by far the best *CITY* in Thailand.

Edited December 10, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[worgeordie]

I remember the good old days 27 years ago, you could cycle around town

no problem, now you take your life in your hands when you cross the road,

Chiang Mai, defiantly and quickly needs a safe,reliable,wide spread,cost

efficient, transport system that serves the people,and that is not run Mafia

style.

All these red buses jostling around town,there are too many,belching smoke ,

blocking the roads,stopping where they like,its a free for all, no organization

at all, but alas I do not seen any changes coming ,not even in the far future.

in typical Thai style the Govt will wait until the City is gridlocked THEN try and

find a solution.

regards Worgeordie

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

It's not a linear thing; congestion gradually builds, but it's mostly not an issue, except that every 'squeeze' becomes a bigger traffic jam over time. Kind of like climate change; mostly not noticeable, but every extreme event becomes a little more extreme.

For example when it rains, when there is a VIP motorcade somewhere (like last #$(*$ Friday exactly during rush hour), a holiday (esp. Huay Kaew towards Doi Suthep) and so on. Then over time, those events become more and more troublesome.

Normally though, even around 5:45pm, it takes me all of 15 minutes to get from way out of town towards Sankamphaeng to the Thapae Gate area. So I'm not really complaining; extra traffic is to be expected as the city grows, which brings many benefits as well. It IS after all a city. I think it's best to stop trying to think about it as a tranquil Rose of the North, and more as by far the best *CITY* in Thailand.

its good idea.. Rebranding.... Let's not call the roads traffic choked but call them vehicle storage zones or safety corridors. After all its hard get into a serious accident parked waiting for a light to turn. It's one way to keep speeds and accidents down.

[cheeryble]

Ran into my equal best Thai friend yesterday at very busy Nimmanhemin fair area.

She's a Public TV producer so she has her finger on the pulse.

First thing I asked

"what about the traffic the last months?"

She replied:

"There are an awful lot of things (events) happening right now"

Let's hope that's at least partially the case and things start to ease up.

[anselpixel]

It's not all bad: now I worry much less about hitting the street during a motorbike accident.

There's no room to fall most of the time.

[cmsally]

A scan over the number plates in City area this morning, I would say at least 30% BKK, then another 20 or so % a mix of which I saw - Lamphun, Lampang, Uttaradit and Phit. (quite a lot), Krabi, Songkhla, Phrae, Chiang Rai.

[cheeryble]

. So I'm not really complaining; extra traffic is to be expected as the city grows, which brings many benefits as well. It IS after all a city. I think it's best to stop trying to think about it as a tranquil Rose of the North, and more as by far the best *CITY* in Thailand.

Nice way to look at it!

I guess we hit the sweet spot just recently when local made cakes, cheese, coffee, bacon, good internet, etc etc had arrived but we could still whizz around on half empty roads.

Am thinking of hijacking my own thread into one about something

I've thought about for some time......... educating Thais how to drive more safely........in a very easy format.

Seeing my Thai television friend reminded me as I was going to approach her about it.

I was thinking say eight simple rules.......like "don't pull out of a side turning without stopping and looking."......."always give way to the right on a roundabout"...... "don't pull out and wait halfway across the fast lane when doing a u-turn on a motorway, wait until ALL lanes are free to go"..........presented one at a time in a very digestible, nay gripping, two or three minute snippets perhaps even in a comedy format by say Nong and Tookie.

I'm convinced if it was simple and funny and well done many lives and limbs would be saved and we could all drive around in less of a state of readiness for instant disaster.

Perhaps this should go onto a wider thread than just CM

Edited December 10, 2012 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

A scan over the number plates in City area this morning, I would say at least 30% BKK, then another 20 or so % a mix of which I saw - Lamphun, Lampang, Uttaradit and Phit. (quite a lot), Krabi, Songkhla, Phrae, Chiang Rai.

I did the same yesterday in Nimman and indeed saw some BKK Mahanakon plates.... but not so many.

The thing is though that traffic is one of those things that runs easily until just that very small extra percentage of cars slows it down inordinately to a jam. Reduce the number just slightly and things go freely again.

[Dante99]

......"always give way to the right on a roundabout"...... "

That's a great one.

[rene123]

I live on the south side of town and I regularly ride to Doi Sutthep area. I'm always thankful that I ride a scooter like a Thai, and weave in and out of the vehicles that all seem to be "parked" along the route. I timed the light at one of the main intersections and it took 5 minutes before my lane was allowed to proceed. Thankfully I was on a scooter and not "parked" like all the cars and trucks waiting to go through.