Global House Processing Credit Card In Home Currency

[wimpy]

Just a heads up... Noticed today that Global House has begun processing my credit card purchases in my home currency rather than Thai baht. Bangkok Bank comes up with the exchange rate for this. They did this without asking which currency I prefer - as Homepro does. When I caught it, I asked them to cancel the transaction and process it in baht, explaining that I get a better exchange rate that way. The canceled transaction shows in my account as $71.10. The baht transaction came out to $68.16. With the amount I spend there on a regular basis, it would add up quickly.

[nong38]

They are also charging a 30bt fee for non Thai credit cards.

[wimpy]

They are also charging a 30bt fee for non Thai credit cards.

Who is, Bangkok Bank or Global House? Where do you see this fee? I see no indication of a fee.

[davejones]

I always ask for payment to be taken in Thai baht, as the exchange rate is way over the top if you let the processor here convert to your home currency. As you say, it can add up very quickly if you use your card often.

[Langsuan Man]

My experience with Global House was positive as far as them charging the CC in Thai Baht, but when returning items not needed they absolutely refused a CC refund and would only give me a store credit. Fortunately there were several other items that I needed so the store credit was used up quickly

[Pib]

I frequently buy items using my U.S. credit card from the Global House in Nakhon Pathom (west of Bangkok above 35KM), and they don't add any additional fee or attempt the DCC (Dynamic Currency Exchange) ripoff...usually a person will end up with approx a 3% lower exchange rate if accepting a DCC transaction...or said another way, you end up paying about 3% more when the charge hits your account due to the lower exchange rate. However, it's been about 2 weeks since I charged something at this Global House. I hope it's not a company-wide change and maybe just the OP's particular Global House....guess I'll find out soon enough as I usually buy stuff at the Nakhon Pathom Global House at least once a month using my credit card. I would prefer not to have to mention "charge in Thai baht" each time or have them redo the charge, but if it save me money then I will....I have done it before...even had to have some HomePro clerks cancel/redo DCC charges (even after I told them to charge in Thai baht when handing them the credit card)...guess they didn't understand me or their brain was on autopilot in just swiping & charging without telling/changing the point of sale transaction machine to charge in Thai baht.

Right now, the only stores that I regularly buy at here in western Bangkok that attempt the DCC ripoff, unless telling them to charge in Thai baht, is HomePro, Sizzler, and Pizza Company.

When a store starts doing the DCC ripoff their point of sale transaction machines automatically default to charging the card's home country currency unless the clerk intervenes while accomplishing the transaction....by intervening I mean telling the point of sale transaction machine to process the charge in Thai baht versus defaulting to the card's home country currency.

[wimpy]

This is a new thing at the Chiang Mai store. There are little signs by the registers telling you how lucky you are to know exactly what exchange rate you will be getting at the time of purchase - never mind that the rate sucks! Should be fine as long as you insist on them processing it in Thai baht. Because I saw the sign, I actually told them I wanted it in baht before they ran the transaction. She handed me the slip and pointed to where it indicated the Thai baht (it also showed the US$ dollar amount and the exchange rate). I told them the rate was poor and insisted they redo the transaction in only Thai baht.

[Pib]

This is a new thing at the Chiang Mai store. There are little signs by the registers telling you how lucky you are to know exactly what exchange rate you will be getting at the time of purchase - never mind that the rate sucks! Should be fine as long as you insist on them processing it in Thai baht. Because I saw the sign, I actually told them I wanted it in baht before they ran the transaction. She handed me the slip and pointed to where it indicated the Thai baht (it also showed the US$ dollar amount and the exchange rate). I told them the rate was poor and insisted they redo the transaction in only Thai baht.

I hear you. But it is amazing how so many people get a warm fuzzy in seeing the charge reflected in their home country currency and for some reason think they are getting a good/better exchange rate or think this method of processing a charge is the norm; but it's definitely not the norm and the only people getting a good deal in a DCC is the store and bank processing the transaction. Preaching to the choir I know.

[payanak]

So you people are saying you end up better overall by charging your purchases in Thai Baht? My experience has been just the opposite. I have used my US credit card only at two of the private hospitals here but have used it many times. Initially I charged the service in baht. My credit union in Los Angeles then charged me a 3% foreign currency handling fee and then used a rather unfavorable exchange rate. I have no idea where they got their rate.

Each hospital has always asked me whether I wanted the billing in dollars or baht. I now always tell them to charge in dollars. Both hospitals use Bangkok Bank. I have always gotten a fairly decent exchange rate and no fee at all from my US bank. Much better for me this way.

I've never experienced any DCC nonsense. What am I missing?

[wimpy]

Many cards do not charge a foreign transaction fee. I received a rate of 30.60 from my credit card versus 29.32 for the DCC transaction.

[JimGant]

Each hospital has always asked me whether I wanted the billing in dollars or baht. I now always tell them to charge in dollars. Both hospitals use Bangkok Bank. I have always gotten a fairly decent exchange rate and no fee at all from my US bank. Much better for me this way.

I've never experienced any DCC nonsense. What am I missing?

Your issuing bank doesn't care if the Thai hospital is using DCC to fatten their wallet, or not. If they pass on the network (Visa/MC) 1% fee -- and maybe add 3% of their own, well, they'll still get their 3% -- and Visa their 1%. Do you really think Visa and your issuing bank will give up these 1%/3% fees -- because the DCC scam is in play? Nope. They'll still collect -- while allowing the foreign merchant, and his acquiring bank (like Bangkok Bank), to split an articial spread at their end. That's why the terminology changed from "foreign exchange fee" to "foreign transaction fee" -- Visa was no longer doing the conversion under DCC, hence, the need for new terms.

But because you paid $5500 dollars under DCC -- instead of $5200 had you gone with baht, and the associated FX rate for that day -- both Visa and your issuing bank are a bit happier. Why? 1%/3% of $5500 is mo' betta than 1%/3% of $5200.

And your Thai hospital and its acquiring bank are dividing up the spread between $5200 and $5500. Everyone, except you, makes out.

I'm afraid you misread the numbers if you compared a charge with the same card between DCC and local currency. You'll always get screwed under DCC -- there's no way you'll come out ahead, as your issuing bank and Visa aren't handing both you, and the Thai merchant, any gravy under DCC. They allow the system -- but for a bit more profit, under the guise of instantly knowing your cost in your own currency.

Plenty of historic discusstion on this forum on the negatives (and no positives) of DCC.

What am I missing? Mak mak baht -- or dollars -- I suspect.

[Pib]

I just can't see how anyone (other than the shop and banks) benefits from a DCC transaction--the customer sure don't! But the transaction paperwork or ATM screen you are reading will most likely be using vague/misleading words that make the customer think they are getting a better deal--but they ain't!

The DCC exchange rate given by the store/bank processing the transaction is going to be around 3% lower than what Visa/Mastercard would give you and then if your bank charges a foreign transaction fee(s)...say 3% just for discussion then that fee(s) still gets applied also (now up to 6% in total charges) because the home country bank that issued the credit card charges the foreign transaction fee(s) on a foreign transaction whether it was processed in local currency/Baht, USD, EURO, Pounds, etc....it's just the fact it was a foreign transaction/outside the home country/region that triggers the fee....not the fact it was processed in a foreign currency. And in that 3% fee I mentioned your home country bank may be charging, I'm assuming the bank is absorbing/including the Visa/Mastercard 1% foreign transaction fee into the bank 3% fee...if the bank is not absorbing that 1% fee then we are now up to 7% total.

Maybe this Bank of America Link talking about foriegn tranaction fees might help to explain. And a partial quote is below.

*You should also be aware that even if a transaction is in U.S. dollars, this fee applies if the transaction is made or processed outside the U.S.

I know everytime I was "almost" charged a DCC transaction when looking at the fine/small print on one of the receipts for signature where it show the exchange rate being given ffor the transaction it was around 3% lower than the current TT Buying Rate or what the no foreign transaction fee Visa/Mastercard exchange rate it was. And it came with a short, vague sentence which could imply too many it was a good deal to process the transaction this way in your home country currency...I guess there is just something about see a foreign charge in your home country currency that gives a lot of people a warm fuzzy---when it should be giving the a cold prickly.

I think some people think that they got screwed by their home country bank's lower exchange rate but it can be just the bank's foreign transaction fee(s) that makes it appear they got a bad rate...a lot depends on how the home country bank applies and breaks out the fees on your account---but when the dust settles it still boils down to how much home country currency was charged to your account whether it was a bad exchange rate and/or fees.

As a rule of thumb for folks to figure out if they got screwed fee/exchange rate wise on a credit/debit card transaction is say if you buy something for 10,000 baht (or whatever amount) on Day X, look-up the Thai bank TT Buying Rate (you can do that right here on the Thai Visa home page which shows the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate) which always runs real close to the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate and determine what that converts to in your home country currency. THEN, look at the home country currency charge(s) that hit your bank account when the fee-dust settled. The difference in total charge hitting your bank account between the TT Buying Rate on the Posting Date of the charge to your account is what your are losing/gaining exchange and fee wise.

DCC is bad, very bad for the customer; but great for the store, local transaction processing bank, and your home country bank most likely still gets its normal fee regardless of what currency the transaction occurred in as they almost always are charging for a transaction occurring outside the home country/region. DCC bad, very bad for the customer.

[Langsuan Man]

I just can't see how anyone (other than the shop and banks) benefits from a DCC transaction--the customer sure don't! But the transaction paperwork or ATM screen you are reading will most likely be using vague/misleading words that make the customer think they are getting a better deal--but they ain't!

The only time, that the DCC option was of benefit to me was when submiting bills to my US health insurance company since when I submitted bills in Thai Baht for re-imbursement they used some unknown formula for establishing the exchange rate. At least submitting bills that had been converted via DCC, I was assured that I was being re-imbursed for the correct amount

This is no longer needed since I took Pib's advice and got a Capital One Rewards card, and now just submit the credit card charge to the insurance company

[Pib]

I just can't see how anyone (other than the shop and banks) benefits from a DCC transaction--the customer sure don't! But the transaction paperwork or ATM screen you are reading will most likely be using vague/misleading words that make the customer think they are getting a better deal--but they ain't!

The only time, that the DCC option was of benefit to me was when submiting bills to my US health insurance company since when I submitted bills in Thai Baht for re-imbursement they used some unknown formula for establishing the exchange rate. At least submitting bills that had been converted via DCC, I was assured that I was being re-imbursed for the correct amount

This is no longer needed since I took Pib's advice and got a Capital One Rewards card, and now just submit the credit card charge to the insurance company

I stand corrected...Yea, I can see a DCC transaction possibly working better for the card holder in some reimbursement scenarios compared to using the exchange rate given by a company like an insurance company. And hopefully the credit card, like CapOne card, is a no foreign transaction fee card which means such a fee will not hit your card account although the receipt in hand which you must submitted with the medical claim only reflects the basic charge and not the foreign transaction fee charge also. But then again, unless the insurance company is reimbursing 100% of the claim the part that is your deductible and/or co-pay comes out of your pocket and will be higher due to the DCC transaction. But if say getting reimbursed 100% by your employer for a rental car on a business trip and to avoid the exchange rate variable, then DCC should be better in terms of you not losing out...although your employer ends up paying/reimbursing a higher amount due to the DCC...but you the individual came out OK. But generally, DCC is bad, very bad for the final bill payer/reimbursor.

[Pib]

Langsuan Man,

After posting above and while walking the dogs it struck me that if your medical insurance company is like mine (which is Tricare) paying for the medical bill using a DCC transaction "does not" work to your advantage. Why? Because although the credit card receipt will show the DCC "total" charge in home country currency/USDs and Thai baht, the detailed hospital bill showing the various medical charges (ie., blood test, Xray, doctor fee, nursing fee, room charge, etc) will most likely be in Thai baht only with the total amount also shown in baht.

When the claim arrives the insurance company they process/enter into their system each and every individual medical charge on the hospital bill/receipt and their system automatically applies "their" currency exchange rate. And depending on the level of payment verification they want to confirm payment of the hospital bill they are going to look at the credit card receipt total amount and ensure it comes pretty close to the total amount on the detail hospital bill and probably look to confirm the credit card receipt matches the final date of medical service and reflects the charge is made by the hospital.

So, even through paying under a DCC transaction that gives a crappy exchange rate, you are still going to be reimbursed based on whatever exchange rate the insurance company uses in its reimbursement system. If "not" using DCC you would have paid less dollar-wise (more money left in your pocket) and you would still be getting reimbursed based on the insurance company's exchange rate.

The claim exchange rate used by Tricare is real close to the 1 USD note/currency rate based on my claims and this Note rate is about 3% lower than the TT Buying Rate from looking at the Bangkok Bank website....and usaully a DCC exchange rate is also around 3% lower than the TT Buying Rate. So, yea using a DDC transaction could make it easier to estimate what you insurance company is probably going to reimburse you dollar-wise, but by going the DCC route you have just spent approx 3% more than what a non-DCC transaction would have cost you...a 3% totally out of your pocket/not reimbursed since the detailed hospital bill in Thai baht is most likely used by the insurance company.

I guess it would all depend on "which receipt" the company uses to punch in the amount charged, but I bet it will be the detailed line-by-line hospital/doctor bill in Thai baht versus the total home currency/USD dollar amount on the credit card receipt. But if you can get the the line-by-line hospital bill in USDs then that would make a definite difference. Same would apply for a reimbursement like a rental car....all depends on which receipt document the finance section is going to use for reimbursement....the detailed receipt probably shown in a foreign currency or the credit card DCC transaction receipt...but my guess is the detailed bill will be used. When the dust settles you are probably still burnt by the lower DCC exchange rate. Yea, DCC bad, very bad.

Happy Holidays,

Pib

[JimGant]

The claim exchange rate used by Tricare is real close to the 1 USD note/currency rate based on my claims and this Note rate is about 3% lower than the TT Buying Rate

Wow. Uncle Sam reimburses us 3% more than they have to -- by using a crummy (for them) conversion rate!

Example. My hypothetical 10,000 baht hospital bill is approved by Tricare, who then reimburses me 7500 baht (the other 25% is my co-pay). Now, I can request this reimbursement in baht -- which presumably Uncle Sam can "buy" at or near the best rate, the Interbank Exchange Rate, which was 30.63 on 24 Dec. Cost for 7500 baht -- $245.

But I request reimbursement in dollars. The 24 Dec TT buying rate (30.49), less 3%, results in 29.58. Cost to Uncle Sam -- $254.

And say I charged the hospital bill with a no fee Visa card, and it was processed 24 Dec. Going rate from the Visa site for 24 Dec: 30.57. My cost for 7500 baht: $245. If I asked for a dollar reimbursement, I'd take Uncle Sam for 9 bucks. (Sure, many will be reimbursed at or below what they paid, because they have fee plastic in their wallets. But why should Uncle give a nod to the less-than-prudent?)

And if my Thai hospital converted the line entries from baht to dollars (using, of course, the DCC exchange rate), I could then only be reimbursed in dollars (per Tricare's guidance). Result: Uncle again pays 3% too much.

With the budget deficits, Tricare has come under close scrutiny of late. I would hope there's something to the above picture that I am missing.......

And not much help from Tricare documentation:

The exchange rate applied will be the exchange rate on the last

day of of the 'episode of care' or last date of invoiced services.

Citigroup is the standard exchange rate used by International

SOS.

Try deciphering this exchange rate........

(Pib, I haven't filed a Tricare claim yet in Thailand, so I have no paperwork to look at. Cheers.)

[Langsuan Man]

All I know was that when I submitted the BPH bill to Blue Cross (overseas claim service) backed up with the credit card bill they gave me the full USD credit towards my yearly deductible. It may have been different if they had to "send" me money as a reimbursement, since they may have been more strict since they had to "pay"

Being a former federal emplyoee , primarily stationed overseas, I do know that whenever seeking reimbursement for travel expenses the finance and accounting office for my agency used a master exchange rate that was based upon dollar purchases of over 100K

[JimGant]

All I know was that when I submitted the BPH bill to Blue Cross (overseas claim service) backed up with the credit card bill they gave me the full USD credit towards my yearly deductible

Which means you got a 3% free credit on your deductible, meaning you'll reach your deductible cap sooner, and then meaning Blue Cross starts paying bills sooner than had they translated your baht bills themselves, using the most favorable rate of the day. This inefficiency certainly means higher premiums. But, I'm not worried about Blue Cross.

Pib's example, however, really does have me chagrined, especially with all the frenzied focus on Federal cost savings, particulary with Tricare. Kinda reminds me of the movie "Dave," where the ersatz president needs to call in his hometown CPA to fix the national budget.

Again, I hope I'm missing something with this Tricare bungle.... And what is this "Citigroup is the standard exchange rate?" There are plenty of Federal exchange rates published that approximate the Interbank Exchange Rate (IER). Unless Citgroup's "standard exchange rate" approximates these federal rates, we, the taxpayers, are being taken for a ride.

the finance and accounting office for my agency used a master exchange rate that was based upon dollar purchases of over 100K

Now, that sounds like something approximating the IER. Maybe, unlike Tricare, there were no middlemen contractors.

[Pib]

The claim exchange rate used by Tricare is real close to the 1 USD note/currency rate based on my claims and this Note rate is about 3% lower than the TT Buying Rate

Wow. Uncle Sam reimburses us 3% more than they have to -- by using a crummy (for them) conversion rate!

Example. My hypothetical 10,000 baht hospital bill is approved by Tricare, who then reimburses me 7500 baht (the other 25% is my co-pay). Now, I can request this reimbursement in baht -- which presumably Uncle Sam can "buy" at or near the best rate, the Interbank Exchange Rate, which was 30.63 on 24 Dec. Cost for 7500 baht -- $245.

But I request reimbursement in dollars. The 24 Dec TT buying rate (30.49), less 3%, results in 29.58. Cost to Uncle Sam -- $254.

And say I charged the hospital bill with a no fee Visa card, and it was processed 24 Dec. Going rate from the Visa site for 24 Dec: 30.57. My cost for 7500 baht: $245. If I asked for a dollar reimbursement, I'd take Uncle Sam for 9 bucks. (Sure, many will be reimbursed at or below what they paid, because they have fee plastic in their wallets. But why should Uncle give a nod to the less-than-prudent?)

And if my Thai hospital converted the line entries from baht to dollars (using, of course, the DCC exchange rate), I could then only be reimbursed in dollars (per Tricare's guidance). Result: Uncle again pays 3% too much.

With the budget deficits, Tricare has come under close scrutiny of late. I would hope there's something to the above picture that I am missing.......

And not much help from Tricare documentation:

The exchange rate applied will be the exchange rate on the last

day of of the 'episode of care' or last date of invoiced services.

Citigroup is the standard exchange rate used by International

SOS.

Try deciphering this exchange rate........

(Pib, I haven't filed a Tricare claim yet in Thailand, so I have no paperwork to look at. Cheers.)

Jim,

That's pretty much how Tricrae reimburses. Just for example using one line entry off my last medical bill claim. It was a B60 medical charge and Tricare exchanged/converted that B60 to to $2.02 on the claim using a 0.03360 exchange rate (or said another way B29.762 / 1 USD) for that 12 Sep 12 charge. That was the exchange rate as identified on the claim payment form they send to you. Or maybe said another way, I was given reimbursement credit of 29.762 baht on each of my USDs spent. If say they would have given me a rate closer to what I get if using my no foreign fee transaction fee Visa debit card that $2.02 on the claim using the 12 Sep Visa exchange rate of 0.032236 for B60 would have been $1.93. Now if it's a charge hitting my bank account then of course I want the higher Visa exchange rate which means a smaller dollar charge to by bank account; but if the dollar amount is ultimately being used to determine my reimbursement amount in dollars then a lower exchange works to my advantage. I think I got this right...when trying to figure out exchange rates and whether person should be using the Buying or Selling Rate or XYZ rate it can get really confusing...and of course card companies/bank's now this and use it to their advantage.

I think (I hope) Tricare's exchange rate thinking is they are assuming you used USD cash/Notes to get that B60 to pay the bill which means you got the lower cash/note exchange rate to obtain that B60 for payment...so, they just use the reimbursement rate that closely compensates you for the dollars you had to spend to get the baht to pay the Thai medical bill. Now this approach is fair to the claimant...sure the govt could save some reimbursement money by using another exchange rate that works to it's advantage but it would actually work against the claimant.

Now if I had requested the claim be paid in Baht vs Dollars I don't know how that would ultimately work out exchange rate wise. I see from a JUSMAG link the "Thai baht is reimbursed by check through Citigroup Thailand." I guess that means a check is cut in Thai baht and you go get that Citigroup check cashed along with any chech-cashing fee that may apply if cashing it at another Thai bank or if Citigroup Thailand charge a fee for non-account members. I also briefly looked at Citigroup exchange rate and they see less favorable than othe Thai banks. I just get my reimbursement check in USDs and then use the USAA internet banking Deposit at Home function to cash the check...as you know it only takes a few minute to scan, upload, and get he check posted to your account....sweet.

It still seems to me that if paying the medical bill via DCC which results in a higher charge to your bank account due to the crappy exchange, and then the medical insurance company most likely using a medical charge line-by-line bill shown in Thai baht approach and their own exchange rate that even with a favorable claimant exchange rate that the claimant is still losing out due to the initial DCC crappy exchange rate. However, but, if the insurance company only looks at the total credit card charge versus the usually multiple/numerous individual charges on a one-hour or multiple day hospital/doctor visit and reimburses for every individual charge on the bill (which sometimes they don't) I can see how a DCC credit card transaction would not work against the individual. But it's just I know I have never experienced using a dental or medical plan over my life where they didn't use the line-by-line medical/dental reimbursement approach since some charges/medical procedures are reimbursed at different rates, some may not be allowed/reimbursed at all, and a few reimbursed at 100%---just like Standard Tricare/SOS does in terms of not reimbursing some items (which usually piss you off and then you start discussions with them) and a few reimbursed at 100%...and the rest at their standard reimbursement rate. OK, that's enough talk on exchange rates and medical reimbursement for me today....both make me sick sometimes.

Happy Holidays,

Pib

[JimGant]

Yeah, it certainly sounds like Tricare is giving the benefit of the doubt to the claimant. In your case, if you paid in cash, it was cash obtained from your Schwab card, thus getting a near IER rate, not the note buy rate at the bank. But, there's certainly no way they could know that -- thus they treat you as someone unable to obtain the most efficient plastic possible. Nice if, indeed, that were the case -- but not very reasonable in these tight times for Tricare. The claimant should bear the burden of being efficient, including refusing a DCC charge (as is his right, which Tricare would need to advertise, I guess, in order to lower reimbursement from the DCC overcharge rate).

All this blabber, of course, from the auditor's perpespective of the Tricare contractors. Perhaps overseas Tricare costs are just too small for any meaningful cost reforms.

Oh, 60 baht for your last hospital visit..... Those heart transplants are just getting too expensive in the Kingdom.

[Pib]

Oh, 60 baht for your last hospital visit..... Those heart transplants are just getting too expensive in the Kingdom.

No, that was the cost of one botox shot to remove some wrinkles....to help keep me looking young. Seriously, that was just one line item (some kind of nurse's fee) on the total bill for that hospital visit, which was really just like an outpatient doctor visit...I have a good private hospital within a 10 minute drive and can see a doctor at their primary care clinic within 15 minutes of walking into the clinic (and my doc speak good English also)...I sure can't gripe about not being able to quickly get an appt/see a doctor....and the cost is cheap. The whole bill came to around a 1000 baht consisting of around a half dozen different charges on the bill. And in a few minutes I off to the hospital again as I have a sinus infection/super duper head cold. Maybe I'll use DCC to pay--on not!!!!. Naw, instead I'll flip out my no foreign transaction fee CapOne No Hassles credit card, pay in Thai baht, and also get 1% cash back...see it pays to get sick. Happy Holidays.