Non-Religious On The Rise In England And Wales As Christianity Declines

[Orac]

Well if the UK does turn Muslim where does that leave the Queen? Mind you the Pomms giving up that aweful warm beer for bowing to Mecca 5 tmes a day may not be a bad idea. Aso the "I divorce thee" 3 times will certainly help the UK men become less impoverished, perhaps less over here? Aside from that Muslim countries tend to be economic powerhouses so nothing but good times ahead economically, lucky b*stards, wish I could be there.

Well that's one saving grace you are not there!

Far better off staying in Thailand. Only a muslim insurgency in the south, a large muslim country across the border and about to join an economic community which will include the largest muslim country by population in the world.

[bendejo]

This report aside, I've learned from talking to Brits that the US-style crazy Christianity (fundamentalism, apocalypse scenarios, etc) is catching over there.

Scary. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, but I don't think it will get far. There is a painting by a Yank who's one of these showing Jesus handing down the US Constitution to the founding fathers. I don't think many Brits would buy into such a notion, such as Moses coming down from Sinai bearing the stone tablets on which god wrote the Magna Carta.

[uptheos]

This report aside, I've learned from talking to Brits that the US-style crazy Christianity (fundamentalism, apocalypse scenarios, etc) is catching over there.

Scary. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit, but I don't think it will get far. There is a painting by a Yank who's one of these showing Jesus handing down the US Constitution to the founding fathers. I don't think many Brits would buy into such a notion, such as Moses coming down from Sinai bearing the stone tablets on which god wrote the Magna Carta.

Did he take it from Mount Sinai to Runnymede for King John to sign?

I also don't think Brits would buy into a notion that whilst Joseph Smith was stump cleaning his axe in a wooded area in NY, the Lord appeared to him with a visitation of angels.......(more likely he tried one of the nearby wild mushrooms). Still,200 years later we have a guy who could have had his finger on the button, who actually does believe this stuff!. There are a lot of morons about.

[rgs2001uk]

What are the Muslims like in the UK, can they express themselves as they wish to? Moving to South Pattaya this year I found out there is a mosque somewhere nearby, the Muezzins make quite some noise several times per day. To my surprise, there is even a female muezzin, certainly unheard of in Arabia. Anyway, Muezzins are not allowed or have to shut up in my home country, not sure, but you can't hear one anywhere. Can't build towers either above their worshipping places. Is it the same in the UK?

Please let me know where your home country is, because when I tire of being in Thailand your country sounds a better choice than the UK.

Lets just say the UK panders to their needs.

Germany. The other German-speaking countries have similar laws. Only church bells are ok, not negotiable. Our Muslims are mostly Turks, they start as moderates, and a generation or two down the line they usually become atheists.

Good country, good people, I share many of their values.

The only problem I have is the draconian tax laws, sorry I dont want to be lumbered with a bill to support Greek tax dodgers, or failed de facto commie states such as Spain, Portugal or Italy.

[rgs2001uk]

I lived in Australia for 30 years & not aware of inter Muslim issues, may be there are, but never had any influence on my quality of life, so I don't get the point you are making. If you are talking about a very small minority with extremist links, fair enough. But it doesn't help that Australia has a sizable minority who are racists and bigots as experienced by my Thai wife every few months months. With the links you provided, I read them all and they are saying if you are a Muslim you must comply with the laws of the country you have adopted, so what's the issue? Regards Da'wa, that is also a practice of Christians, even here in Thailand, personally I do not agree with it.

Again from the links you provided all they are saying that if you are a practicing Muslim you should not migrate to a non Muslim country purely for the sake of materialism, so what?

The issues I mentioned were to do with a mosque in Sydney, where the muslims were fighting amongst themselves about who should be the muezzin, from Bosnia and Macedonia or countries from The Balkans, sorry a few years ago, so cant remember the exact details.

The point I was trying to make with the links was,

"I read them all and they are saying if you are a Muslim you must comply with the laws of the country you have adopted, so what's the issue?"

Perhaps religious leaders should remind those whos choose to migrate to comply with the laws of their adopted countries.

As far as I am aware the Uk doesnt have lwas allowing honour killings.

I also believe Australia has problems such as, the Sydney gang rapes and the Cronulla riots.

"Again from the links you provided all they are saying that if you are a practicing Muslim you should not migrate to a non Muslim country purely for the sake of materialism, so what?"

So please tell me why they come in ever increasing numbers?

Quite ironic really, they fought for independance from first Britain, then India, then independance from Pakistan, I would have though finally after securing their indepandance they would be happy, so why do so many wish to come to the UK if not for the sake of materialism?

[Pushit]

Do you believe in fairy tales?? Be it Christian or Muslim??

[7by7]

Dewsbury has a shariah court.

Which has no legal powers whatsoever.

Sharia courts in the UK are voluntary organisations which some Muslims use to resolve civil disputes between themselves. They are not recognised by the UK legal system, can only deal with civil disputes, not criminal ones, and their rulings are not enforceable under UK law.

But don't let the facts spoil your prejudice.

Perhaps religious leaders should remind those whos choose to migrate to comply with the laws of their adopted countries.

As far as I am aware the Uk doesnt have lwas allowing honour killings.

It does not, and in the UK such killings are treated as what they are; murder.

Shafilea Ahmed murder trial: Parents guilty of killing

[bigbamboo]

There is nothing wrong is anyone worshipping anyone or anything... be it the sun or a god or a prophet or whatever if it makes them feel better. The more the merrier.

Just don't foist the obsession on anyone else because that's when the trouble starts.

[simple1]

Re post # 35

The issues I mentioned were to do with a mosque in Sydney, where the muslims were fighting amongst themselves about who should be the muezzin, from Bosnia and Macedonia or countries from The Balkans, sorry a few years ago, so cant remember the exact details.

This had zero relevance to non Muslim Australians, so again what's your point?

The point I was trying to make with the links was,

"I read them all and they are saying if you are a Muslim you must comply with the laws of the country you have adopted, so what's the issue?"

Perhaps religious leaders should remind those whos choose to migrate to comply with the laws of their adopted countries.

As far as I am aware the Uk doesnt have lwas allowing honour killings.

Already answered in post #37

I also believe Australia has problems such as, the Sydney gang rapes and the Cronulla riots.

Yes there were two gang rapes, but an even more horrific attack and killing about the same time was by a white Australian gang. The riots were initiated by white Australians.

"Again from the links you provided all they are saying that if you are a practicing Muslim you should not migrate to a non Muslim country purely for the sake of materialism, so what?"

So please tell me why they come in ever increasing numbers?

Quite ironic really, they fought for independance from first Britain, then India, then independance from Pakistan, I would have though finally after securing their indepandance they would be happy, so why do so many wish to come to the UK if not for the sake of materialism?

Other than family reunion I guess Muslim immigrants to the UK are just ignoring the fatwa's. Kind of similar to non Muslims ignoring the dictates of their religious leaders

[7by7]

Although Christianity overall may be on the decline in England and Wales, in some areas it is thriving and expanding.

Part of my work involves collecting data for planning applications. Over the last year we have done several of these jobs for congregations wishing to open new churches in various London areas.

But as these churches are run by immigrants from West Africa, I guess the likes of Mosha will be against them, too.

[Mosha]

Although Christianity overall may be on the decline in England and Wales, in some areas it is thriving and expanding.

Part of my work involves collecting data for planning applications. Over the last year we have done several of these jobs for congregations wishing to open new churches in various London areas.

But as these churches are run by immigrants from West Africa, I guess the likes of Mosha will be against them, too.

As long as they integrate I don't give a shit. However when schools employ teaching assistants to supervise a class while the teacher get English born muslim Asians kids English to an acceptable standard. It shows they have no intention of integrating. They don't hear English at home. My sister used to be one of those assistants until about 13 years ago.

[7by7]

Your sisters experience is, I submit, both out of date and untypical.

My daughter (actually step daughter) arrived in the UK with her mother 13 years ago. She attended a primary school for 2 years and then moved to a secondary school. Both schools had many Muslim pupils. None of them had extra English; being second or third generation in the UK they didn't need it.

Indeed, the only pupil at both schools who received extra English was my daughter!

So, using your logic, she and other Thais shouldn't come to the UK!

After all, they build their Buddhist temples all over the place. There's one in the town where I live, another about 30 minutes drive away and several more within a 2 hour drive.

These Thais socialise together, speak Thai together, often work together.

So you must, using your logic, object to Thais in the UK as well; or is it only Muslims you're prejudiced against?

Edited December 16, 2012 by 7by7

[Mosha]

I suggest you go stand out side Thornhill high school at kicking out time. It's in a white village, but you won't see many white faces or hear much English.. I've just had friends here from home, and they said it's worse than when I was last there. The year after one of the home grown terrorists from Thornhill helped bomb London. I'm pleased that your experiences are different, but parts of West Yorkshire is getting ethnically cleansed of non muslims. Certainly the hindus and seikhs I knew had no time for them

Edited December 16, 2012 by Mosha

[folium]

Someone posted a link showing the tipping point of muslim populations. That 4.8% is misleading. Many towns in England no longer feel English. Dewsbury has a shariah court.

Oh dear...

Towns " no longer feel English", do you mean white and Christian? What do you mean by "English"?

Do you have a problem with a Patel and a Panesar playing for the England cricket team; a Farrah, Adams or Ennis representing Team GB?

[rucus7]

Having no Religion, is the most intelligent option. Why not form you own beliefs? All organized Religions have been very good at creating bloodshed, distrust and superstition.

[Mosha]

Someone posted a link showing the tipping point of muslim populations. That 4.8% is misleading. Many towns in England no longer feel English. Dewsbury has a shariah court.

Oh dear...

Towns " no longer feel English", do you mean white and Christian? What do you mean by "English"?

Do you have a problem with a Patel and a Panesar playing for the England cricket team; a Farrah, Adams or Ennis representing Team GB?

No just 75% of the women walking round in a burkah.

[endure]

Some good news from the UK at last!

But read between the lines, and you can see the UK becoming a Muslim country before too long!

By numbers, not choice!

From the census data, 4.8% of the population of England and Wales are Muslim.

As I said before, the first mosque in the UK opened in 1889.

So in 122 years the Muslim population has grown to just 4.8% of the population.

At that rate it will take a long time before the UK is a majority Muslim country, if at all.

Someone posted a link showing the tipping point of muslim populations. That 4.8% is misleading. Many towns in England no longer feel English. Dewsbury has a shariah court.

Manchester has a Beth Din.

[endure]

I suggest you go stand out side Thornhill high school at kicking out time. It's in a white village, but you won't see many white faces or hear much English.. I've just had friends here from home, and they said it's worse than when I was last there. The year after one of the home grown terrorists from Thornhill helped bomb London. I'm pleased that your experiences are different, but parts of West Yorkshire is getting ethnically cleansed of non muslims. Certainly the hindus and seikhs I knew had no time for them

What's a 'white village'?

[MAJIC]

Some good news from the UK at last!

But read between the lines, and you can see the UK becoming a Muslim country before too long!

By numbers, not choice!

From the census data, 4.8% of the population of England and Wales are Muslim.

As I said before, the first mosque in the UK opened in 1889.

So in 122 years the Muslim population has grown to just 4.8% of the population.

At that rate it will take a long time before the UK is a majority Muslim country, if at all.

Long term Snapshot figures can be a bit deceiving.

In the 2001 UK Census there was a 2.7% Muslim population in the UK,and in 2011 there was 4.8%,which from a population of 57,000,000 = 2,736,000, which includes a growth rate of 2.1% in 10 years.

[MAJIC]

Some good news from the UK at last!

But read between the lines, and you can see the UK becoming a Muslim country before too long!

By numbers, not choice!

From the census data, 4.8% of the population of England and Wales are Muslim.

As I said before, the first mosque in the UK opened in 1889.

So in 122 years the Muslim population has grown to just 4.8% of the population.

At that rate it will take a long time before the UK is a majority Muslim country, if at all.

Long term Snapshot figures can be a bit deceiving.

In the 2001 UK Census there was a 2.7% Muslim population in the UK,and in 2011 there was 4.8%,which from a population of 57,000,000 = 2,736,000, which includes a growth rate of 2.1% in 10 years.

Updated Population figures for the UK:........

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/population

[Mosha]

I suggest you go stand out side Thornhill high school at kicking out time. It's in a white village, but you won't see many white faces or hear much English.. I've just had friends here from home, and they said it's worse than when I was last there. The year after one of the home grown terrorists from Thornhill helped bomb London. I'm pleased that your experiences are different, but parts of West Yorkshire is getting ethnically cleansed of non muslims. Certainly the hindus and seikhs I knew had no time for them

What's a 'white village'?

The village has very few Asians. Only 2 such villages in Dewsbury now.

[7by7]

I suggest you go stand out side Thornhill high school at kicking out time. It's in a white village, but you won't see many white faces or hear much English.. I've just had friends here from home, and they said it's worse than when I was last there. The year after one of the home grown terrorists from Thornhill helped bomb London. I'm pleased that your experiences are different, but parts of West Yorkshire is getting ethnically cleansed of non muslims. Certainly the hindus and seikhs I knew had no time for them

If this is the school you referred to earlier, then as the white parents refuse to send their children there it is hardly surprising; is it.

You go on about integration; but it's hard to integrate into a society that refuses to accept you!

"Friends from home." Which presumably means you don't live in the UK. So it's ok for you to migrate to another country, but not for people you don't like to migrate to the UK. Theres a word for that; begins with an H.

On the 5th October 1974 I was walking to meet some friends in the Horse and Groom in Gulidford. I didn't make it as the street was blocked by police following the bomb. Using your logic, I should hate all Irish people, hate all Catholics, because the IRA bombed a pub I regularly drank in.

Every religion, every ethnic group has it's fanatics, but judging the vast majority by the actions of this very small minority merely exposes your own ignorance.

To say that parts of Yorkshire are being ethnically cleansed of non Muslims again shows your ignorance.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

the mass expulsion or killing of members of one ethnic or religious group in an area by those of another.

So, how many non Muslims have been expelled from West Yorkshire? How many have been killed?

Yes, some Hindus do hate Muslims and vice versa, that's what led to the partition of India and the creation of Pakistan. But using the prejudices of other people to justify your own is a pitifully weak.

Some Muslim women do wear burkas. That's their choice; the UK is a free country, in case you hadn't noticed.

Do you also object to Sikh men wearing turbans?

Hindu women wearing saris?

What about the dress code of Hasidic Jews?

Edited December 16, 2012 by 7by7

[uptheos]

I suggest you go stand out side Thornhill high school at kicking out time. It's in a white village, but you won't see many white faces or hear much English.. I've just had friends here from home, and they said it's worse than when I was last there. The year after one of the home grown terrorists from Thornhill helped bomb London. I'm pleased that your experiences are different, but parts of West Yorkshire is getting ethnically cleansed of non muslims. Certainly the hindus and seikhs I knew had no time for them

What's a 'white village'?

[7by7]

Some good news from the UK at last!

But read between the lines, and you can see the UK becoming a Muslim country before too long!

By numbers, not choice!

From the census data, 4.8% of the population of England and Wales are Muslim.

As I said before, the first mosque in the UK opened in 1889.

So in 122 years the Muslim population has grown to just 4.8% of the population.

At that rate it will take a long time before the UK is a majority Muslim country, if at all.

Long term Snapshot figures can be a bit deceiving.

In the 2001 UK Census there was a 2.7% Muslim population in the UK,and in 2011 there was 4.8%,which from a population of 57,000,000 = 2,736,000, which includes a growth rate of 2.1% in 10 years.

So, assuming the growth over the last 10 years continues and the non Muslim population steadily declines, it will be at least another 30 years before the Muslim population reaches 10% of the total population.

Hardly "the UK becoming a Muslim country before too long" is it!

Indeed, as the largest increase in foreign born people now living in the UK was people from Poland (ninefold over the 10 years) and as most Poles are Catholic; the argument that England and Wales will become Catholic countries is far more likely.

Edited December 16, 2012 by 7by7

[MAJIC]

@ 7by7 Post No 54.

I have researched a new update of the UK Population figures,obtained from the Central Office of UK Government Statistics.

Officially there are 62,000,000 in the UK,at the last Census.

Of which in 2001 there were 1,674,000 Muslims @ 2.7% of Population

In 2011 there were ...............2,976,000 Muslims @ 4.8% of Population

An increase of.......................1,383,000.Muslims in Ten years.

Its easy to be laid back about this subject,and how it will not effect Christianity.

But personally I am very concerned,this is a huge amount for a small Island,and will do just that.

If this carries on,and coupled with the decline in Christianity,it will not be many years before Christianity will be the second Religion in the UK.

Some members on Thai Visa think that they musn't be Hypocritical because we want our Spouses to join us,in the land of our Birthright, considering Thais in the UK are only a little more than 30,000,in residence permanently, and also they are Bhuddists, there is no chance of them (or intent) of them being the number one Religion

Edited December 16, 2012 by MAJIC

[Bwanatickey]

England has changed,and continues to change. Where I live many Pubs have shut,Social clubs are closing as well,not enough young members joining. Brits don't drink any more,and the ones that do tend to move abroad,where the booze is cheaper.

Many closed Pubs reopen as,Indian,chinees take aways or restaurants,and Tesco express supermarkets,or corner shop supermarkets.

The old England is certainly dieing out,discussion in public about this is Verbotten.

[Mosha]

I live in Thailand partly because I couldn't get my wife a visa, even just to visit. I suppose Jack Straw was being biggoted when he insisted muslim women showed there faces when attending his constituency surgery meetings.

This is part of a review for an e-book on my home town. I haven't read it as I have no reader device.

"To surmise Danny Lockwood's book, "The Islamic Republic of Dewsbury" is a stark reminder that England (and the west for that matter) has lost the plot. The unsaid but sad conclusion to this work is that there seems to be no strength of will to address the obvious problems highlighted within. That Lockwood refuses to be quiet on this important matter offers some hope that eventually those in control will hear his and other voices clearly stating `the emperor has no clothes.'

Keep your eye on what happens in the town of Dewsbury - it is `the canary in the (Yorkshire) mine' of things to come."

[endure]

England has changed,and continues to change. Where I live many Pubs have shut,Social clubs are closing as well,not enough young members joining. Brits don't drink any more,and the ones that do tend to move abroad,where the booze is cheaper.

Many closed Pubs reopen as,Indian,chinees take aways or restaurants,and Tesco express supermarkets,or corner shop supermarkets.

The old England is certainly dieing out,discussion in public about this is Verbotten.

So you're complaining about the fact that British youth doesn't drink as much as they used to? You're also complaining about the fact that the pubs that they used to drink in are being turned into viable businesses rather than being allowed to moulder as derelict buildings? Precisely what are you complaining about?

[Somtamnication]

This topic has been hijacked by apologists for the former labour government.

[simple1]

I live in Thailand partly because I couldn't get my wife a visa, even just to visit. I suppose Jack Straw was being biggoted when he insisted muslim women showed there faces when attending his constituency surgery meetings.

This is part of a review for an e-book on my home town. I haven't read it as I have no reader device.

"To surmise Danny Lockwood's book, "The Islamic Republic of Dewsbury" is a stark reminder that England (and the west for that matter) has lost the plot. The unsaid but sad conclusion to this work is that there seems to be no strength of will to address the obvious problems highlighted within. That Lockwood refuses to be quiet on this important matter offers some hope that eventually those in control will hear his and other voices clearly stating `the emperor has no clothes.'

Keep your eye on what happens in the town of Dewsbury - it is `the canary in the (Yorkshire) mine' of things to come."

You should read the book to get a more balanced view. From a review of the book you reference as the definitive description of Muslims in Dewsbury "In his descriptions the vast majority of Muslims in Dewsbury are hard working people who just want to get on with their lives" URL of the book review at:

http://durotrigan.blogspot.com/2012/11/guest-book-review-islamic-republic-of.html