chuckd Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) The damage isn't done by what the Democrats didn't do. The damage is done by what the Republicans have done. So you are denying any Democratic Party responsibility for the so-called lack of gun control? Interesting. You are denying the tea party exists, so.... Yep.We have the Republican Party, the Democratic Party and a couple of other parties...but NO Tea Party. There is a tea party movement, but no officially recognized Tea Party that runs candidates for public office under their banner. Edited December 21, 2012 by chuckd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocN Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The damage isn't done by what the Democrats didn't do. The damage is done by what the Republicans have done. So you are denying any Democratic Party responsibility for the so-called lack of gun control? Interesting. You are denying the tea party exists, so.... Yep.We have the Republican Party, the Democratic Party and a couple of other parties...but NO Tea Party. There is a tea party movement, but no officially recognized Tea Party that runs candidates for public office under their banner. oh, please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samran Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 The damage isn't done by what the Democrats didn't do. The damage is done by what the Republicans have done. So you are denying any Democratic Party responsibility for the so-called lack of gun control? Interesting. You are denying the tea party exists, so.... Yep.We have the Republican Party, the Democratic Party and a couple of other parties...but NO Tea Party. There is a tea party movement, but no officially recognized Tea Party that runs candidates for public office under their banner. I'm sure this is something they'd like to change.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folium Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 How about starting with gun control 1.01.. Weapons and ammunition are not left unsecured within a house or anywhere else for that matter. If this was enforced with annual inspections, a license system based on this requirement being adhered to ,and revocation of said license plus a hefty fine and jail time for persistent offenders...this would hopefully eliminate all the accidental discharges that so often involve kids and occasionally big kids, plus situations like the Lanza's could have been avoided. Talking of the Lanza's the other issue is, IMHO, the notion of guns being seen as "toys" and a form of entertainment. Dress it up how you like, but weapons are designed for one purpose only and that is to kill...end of story. Buy your kids (big or small) an XBox or whatever. Yes, they will become sad f'wits wasting hours on silly games, but at least there's little chance of them killing anyone for real. So make their Christmas present a copy of CoD Modern Warfare whatever rather than an AR-15, and everyone will have a very merry Christmas...."more f'wits less murderers", there's a nice festive jingle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folium Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) How about starting with gun control 1.01.. Weapons and ammunition are not left unsecured within a house or anywhere else for that matter. If this was enforced with annual inspections, a license system based on this requirement being adhered to ,and revocation of said license plus a hefty fine and jail time for persistent offenders...this would hopefully eliminate all the accidental discharges that so often involve kids and occasionally big kids, plus situations like the Lanza's could have been avoided. Talking of the Lanza's the other issue is, IMHO, the notion of guns being seen as "toys" and a form of entertainment. Dress it up how you like, but weapons are designed for one purpose only and that is to kill...end of story. Buy your kids (big or small) an XBox or whatever. Yes, they will become sad f'wits wasting hours on silly games, but at least there's little chance of them killing anyone for real. So make their Christmas present a copy of CoD Modern Warfare whatever rather than an AR-15, and everyone will have a very merry Christmas...."more f'wits less murderers", there's a nice festive jingle! I think some people have a tendency to regard weapons as "toys" or accessories to their desired lifestyle. Rational thought would preclude suburban housewifes buying semi-auto AR-15s. If the story about Mrs Lanza wanting to bond with her son through firearms is true, it is more than a little alarming. The mantra of "People kill, not guns", taken to its illogical extreme makes guns seem harmless and thus little different to toys. Living in the US I was regularly amazed by the cavalier way in which some people kept weapons in their homes and vehicles. Classic disasters waiting to happen. Edited December 21, 2012 by Scott Deleted quote edited out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koheesti Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 You think guns are bad? Driving is even more dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 And another. 4 dead, couple of troopers injured. http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16069042-four-killed-including-gunman-in-shooting-incident-in-pennsylvania-three-troopers-injured?lite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folium Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Let's try a different tack. Saving needless deaths 1.02. How about needing a license to own a weapon, any weapon, but restricted to hunting and target weapons (no auto, semi-auto, handguns or sniper rifles) for which you need to provide a convincing reason for why the weapon(s) is/are needed.. To secure a license you need to prove to your local police that you have secure storage facilities for your weapons and separate storage facilities for your ammuniition. This license is good for 5 years and on renewal you may be asked to again prove the security of your storage arrangements if requested. Any breach of these arrangements results in a loss of license, confiscation of said weapons and further legal action if your inappropriate weapon arrangements caused any further issues. Would this work in the USA? Well that's how things are in the UK today, and they are hardly a major inconvenience and a small price to pay for avoiding needless accidents and worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 And another. 4 dead, couple of troopers injured. http://usnews.nbcnew...rs-injured?lite US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people • Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean I guess we could list every gun death in the world every day. Is that your intention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Let's try a different tack. Saving needless deaths 1.02. How about needing a license to own a weapon, any weapon, but restricted to hunting and target weapons (no auto, semi-auto, handguns or sniper rifles) for which you need to provide a convincing reason for why the weapon(s) is/are needed.. To secure a license you need to prove to your local police that you have secure storage facilities for your weapons and separate storage facilities for your ammuniition. This license is good for 5 years and on renewal you may be asked to again prove the security of your storage arrangements if requested. Any breach of these arrangements results in a loss of license, confiscation of said weapons and further legal action if your inappropriate weapon arrangements caused any further issues. Would this work in the USA? Well that's how things are in the UK today, and they are hardly a major inconvenience and a small price to pay for avoiding needless accidents and worse. A couple of questions. The most effective sniper rifle for years was also a choice of deer hunters The M1903 Springfield, formally the United States Rifle, Caliber .30-06, Model 1903, is an American clip-loaded, 5-shot, bolt-action service rifle used primarily during the first half of the 20th century. And question #2 is it OK in this thread to compare the USA and the UK as you have done above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 No it's probably not OK. A discussion uses a lot of different sources, but anything that is designed to take the thread off-topic or to be a diversion will get deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocN Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 And another. 4 dead, couple of troopers injured. http://usnews.nbcnew...rs-injured?lite US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people • Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean I guess we could list every gun death in the world every day. Is that your intention? I hope you are very happy in that company! Why not ad Afghanistan, Sudan and Nigeria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 And another. 4 dead, couple of troopers injured. http://usnews.nbcnew...rs-injured?lite US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people • Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean I guess we could list every gun death in the world every day. Is that your intention? I hope you are very happy in that company! Why not ad Afghanistan, Sudan and Nigeria? No not really. My comment was motivated by trying to get the thread back on topic which is taking a gun to work. Quote from the article. "Shootings accounted for 80 per cent of workplace homicides between 2005 and 2009, with most involving robberies" I carried a gun at work a number of times and it was to prevent robberies, normally when I had to make late night deposits of large amounts of cash. My boss was too cheap to use a Brinks truck or other armored car service. It wasn't like I wanted to carry the gun. I wanted an armed guard to come and pick up the money but the boss said no. There are businesses in a lot of places in the USA where anyone who carries money also carries a gun. Not to carry a gun would be an invitation to get shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocN Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 And another. 4 dead, couple of troopers injured. http://usnews.nbcnew...rs-injured?lite US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people • Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean I guess we could list every gun death in the world every day. Is that your intention? I hope you are very happy in that company! Why not ad Afghanistan, Sudan and Nigeria? No not really. My comment was motivated by trying to get the thread back on topic which is taking a gun to work. Quote from the article. "Shootings accounted for 80 per cent of workplace homicides between 2005 and 2009, with most involving robberies" I carried a gun at work a number of times and it was to prevent robberies, normally when I had to make late night deposits of large amounts of cash. My boss was too cheap to use a Brinks truck or other armored car service. It wasn't like I wanted to carry the gun. I wanted an armed guard to come and pick up the money but the boss said no. There are businesses in a lot of places in the USA where anyone who carries money also carries a gun. Not to carry a gun would be an invitation to get shot. So...when you carried a gun to work...exactly how many times did someone try to rob you? How many times did someone try to rob your colleagues? How many time have you EVER been in a situation, where you came even close to want to use a gun? Let me guess: (maybe...maximum) once in your life! I am from Germany, a country no less free or democratic or whatever, compared to the US. And we have all the criminals you can ask for. NEVER EVER in my life, not even here in Thailand, did I feel the idea creeping up on me in the back of my mind, that I would have been safer with a gun! So tell me: how many times! And PLEASE...be honest! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people • Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean I guess we could list every gun death in the world every day. Is that your intention? I hope you are very happy in that company! Why not ad Afghanistan, Sudan and Nigeria? No not really. My comment was motivated by trying to get the thread back on topic which is taking a gun to work. Quote from the article. "Shootings accounted for 80 per cent of workplace homicides between 2005 and 2009, with most involving robberies" I carried a gun at work a number of times and it was to prevent robberies, normally when I had to make late night deposits of large amounts of cash. My boss was too cheap to use a Brinks truck or other armored car service. It wasn't like I wanted to carry the gun. I wanted an armed guard to come and pick up the money but the boss said no. There are businesses in a lot of places in the USA where anyone who carries money also carries a gun. Not to carry a gun would be an invitation to get shot. So...when you carried a gun to work...exactly how many times did someone try to rob you? How many times did someone try to rob your colleagues? How many time have you EVER been in a situation, where you came even close to want to use a gun? Let me guess: (maybe...maximum) once in your life! I am from Germany, a country no less free or democratic or whatever, compared to the US. And we have all the criminals you can ask for. NEVER EVER in my life, not even here in Thailand, did I feel the idea creeping up on me in the back of my mind, that I would have been safer with a gun! So tell me: how many times! And PLEASE...be honest! 1st time I was in college and working the late night shift at a gas station. 2nd time an out of work auto worker in Lansing Michigan used a shotgun to hold up my restaurant. 3rd time was the Cork and Cleaver restaurant in Denver. 2PM the manager was taking the deposit to the bank. The robber shot first. The Manager died (I was the bartender). Next time was around 3AM and the alarm company called me at the same time they called the cops. My restaurant was being broken into. I got there before the police. Holiday Inn; an employee's husband pulled a gun on me because the cocktail waitresses uniforms were too sexy. Same Holiday Inn I broke up a poker game in one of the rooms. I could go on.... Oh gee, I forgot Charity. She was a dancer in Denver and she was married but I didn't know she was married. Her husband came home. I didn't have a gun; she did. Good thing. I'm just scratching the surface here. I've been in the bar, restaurant and hotel business most of my life in big cities. Chicago, Denver, East St Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa, Miami. Edited December 22, 2012 by chiangmaikelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Off topic posts and replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaikelly Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) Business and guns and cash. Today it's a drug problem. I would rather use an armored car but each pickup is expensive. Small business men can't afford it. If one has a small bar that deposits a few thousand daily is that enough for a druggie to kill you? Sure. How do the publicans handle it in other countries? I don't know. How do they handle it? Edited December 22, 2012 by chiangmaikelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 BRITISH HOST SLAMS AMERICANS FOR GUNS Drudgereport headline. I watched part of this and turned it off when Morgan got completely out of line. Rude, discourteous, crass and typical of his interviews with anybody he disagrees with. He now has the lowest rated show on cable television by viewer count, having lost 100,000 or so of Larry King's former audience. When will CNN wise up and send him back across the big pond. Don't send him back. It's not OUR fault that in a country with about 313,000,000 people, you can't find just one American to replace Larry King! However, for now I think his confrontational style is OK, if no one else dare confront these gun loonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) So...when you carried a gun to work...exactly how many times did someone try to rob you? How many times did someone try to rob your colleagues? How many time have you EVER been in a situation, where you came even close to want to use a gun? Let me guess: (maybe...maximum) once in your life! I am from Germany, a country no less free or democratic or whatever, compared to the US. And we have all the criminals you can ask for. NEVER EVER in my life, not even here in Thailand, did I feel the idea creeping up on me in the back of my mind, that I would have been safer with a gun! So..how many times in your life have you bought Fire Insurance if you owned a home? How many times have you lost homes due to fire? How many times was your house close to burning down & you were glad you had the fire insurance? If you never owned a home please insert any other form of often bought but rarely used insurance. I am not saying what is right or wrong. But I am saying what one person in one part of the world feels they need for insurance may not match what a person from Germany feels they need. Personally I have never carried a gun for protection & if I felt I needed to I would not live there. But I cannot presume to tell others what they need or do not need. Edited December 22, 2012 by mania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 A trained monkey could have replaced King. No-one up to that standard in the 313 Mil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocN Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 So...when you carried a gun to work...exactly how many times did someone try to rob you? How many times did someone try to rob your colleagues? How many time have you EVER been in a situation, where you came even close to want to use a gun? Let me guess: (maybe...maximum) once in your life! I am from Germany, a country no less free or democratic or whatever, compared to the US. And we have all the criminals you can ask for. NEVER EVER in my life, not even here in Thailand, did I feel the idea creeping up on me in the back of my mind, that I would have been safer with a gun! So..how many times in your life have you bought Fire Insurance if you owned a home? How many times have you lost homes due to fire? How many times was your house close to burning down & you were glad you had the fire insurance? If you never owned a home please insert any other form of often bought but rarely used insurance. I am not saying what is right or wrong. But I am saying what one person in one part of the world feels they need for insurance may not match what a person from Germany feels they need. Personally I have never carried a gun for protection & if I felt I needed to I would not live there. But I cannot presume to tell others what they need or do not need. There are many things that cause a fire! Lightning, short circuit etc. How many different things cause "gun deaths"? Another comparisson, that doesnt work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) There are many things that cause a fire! Lightning, short circuit etc. How many different things cause "gun deaths"? Another comparisson, that doesnt work! Actually it works well. Given the fact that the vocal bunch of 5 or so here are on about too many guns existing in the US. If that is what you want to claim then how do you now claim insurance against a gun is a weak argument Insurance is insurance The reason for insurance is threat perceived Does not matter how many flavors in a sub category. Also, Please remember as I said in my last post.... Personally I have never carried a gun for protection & if I feltI needed to I would not live there. But I cannot presume to tell others what they need or do not need. Edited December 22, 2012 by mania 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 So...when you carried a gun to work...exactly how many times did someone try to rob you? How many times did someone try to rob your colleagues? How many time have you EVER been in a situation, where you came even close to want to use a gun? Let me guess: (maybe...maximum) once in your life! I am from Germany, a country no less free or democratic or whatever, compared to the US. And we have all the criminals you can ask for. NEVER EVER in my life, not even here in Thailand, did I feel the idea creeping up on me in the back of my mind, that I would have been safer with a gun! So..how many times in your life have you bought Fire Insurance if you owned a home? How many times have you lost homes due to fire? How many times was your house close to burning down & you were glad you had the fire insurance? If you never owned a home please insert any other form of often bought but rarely used insurance. I am not saying what is right or wrong. But I am saying what one person in one part of the world feels they need for insurance may not match what a person from Germany feels they need. Personally I have never carried a gun for protection & if I felt I needed to I would not live there. But I cannot presume to tell others what they need or do not need. So...when you carried a gun to work...exactly how many times did someone try to rob you? How many times did someone try to rob your colleagues? How many time have you EVER been in a situation, where you came even close to want to use a gun? Let me guess: (maybe...maximum) once in your life! I am from Germany, a country no less free or democratic or whatever, compared to the US. And we have all the criminals you can ask for. NEVER EVER in my life, not even here in Thailand, did I feel the idea creeping up on me in the back of my mind, that I would have been safer with a gun! So..how many times in your life have you bought Fire Insurance if you owned a home? How many times have you lost homes due to fire? How many times was your house close to burning down & you were glad you had the fire insurance? If you never owned a home please insert any other form of often bought but rarely used insurance. I am not saying what is right or wrong. But I am saying what one person in one part of the world feels they need for insurance may not match what a person from Germany feels they need. Personally I have never carried a gun for protection & if I felt I needed to I would not live there. But I cannot presume to tell others what they need or do not need. Here is a group of people who felt safer with their guns: http://www.npr.org/2012/04/27/151526930/korean-store-owner-on-arming-himself-for-riots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 A trained monkey could have replaced King. No-one up to that standard in the 313 Mil? Yeah but we're all busy posting on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 BRITISH HOST SLAMS AMERICANS FOR GUNS Drudgereport headline. I watched part of this and turned it off when Morgan got completely out of line. Rude, discourteous, crass and typical of his interviews with anybody he disagrees with. He now has the lowest rated show on cable television by viewer count, having lost 100,000 or so of Larry King's former audience. When will CNN wise up and send him back across the big pond. Don't send him back. It's not OUR fault that in a country with about 313,000,000 people, you can't find just one American to replace Larry King! However, for now I think his confrontational style is OK, if no one else dare confront these gun loonies. The people that started a petition calling for him to be deported are the same people that had a lengthy interview with David Icke this morning and fawned all over him. Apparently the British Royal family are all satan worshippers and they keep finding the bodies of children and women on royal estates and everyone is covering it up. The authors names are Kurt Nimmo and Alex Jones, and they are the exact sort of nutters who should not have access to firearms, they are borderline David Koresh's: Apparently the globalists are coming for your guns as well as poisoning your water and using mind control, etc. If this is what Morgan is up against, he's laughing all the way to the bank, and I don't even like the obnoxious buffoon. So I hope he keeps up the good work against these head cases. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sing_Sling Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 So...when you carried a gun to work...exactly how many times did someone try to rob you? How many times did someone try to rob your colleagues? How many time have you EVER been in a situation, where you came even close to want to use a gun? Let me guess: (maybe...maximum) once in your life! I am from Germany, a country no less free or democratic or whatever, compared to the US. And we have all the criminals you can ask for. NEVER EVER in my life, not even here in Thailand, did I feel the idea creeping up on me in the back of my mind, that I would have been safer with a gun! So..how many times in your life have you bought Fire Insurance if you owned a home? How many times have you lost homes due to fire? How many times was your house close to burning down & you were glad you had the fire insurance? If you never owned a home please insert any other form of often bought but rarely used insurance. I am not saying what is right or wrong. But I am saying what one person in one part of the world feels they need for insurance may not match what a person from Germany feels they need. Personally I have never carried a gun for protection & if I felt I needed to I would not live there. But I cannot presume to tell others what they need or do not need. How utterly ridiculous comparing fire insurance or any insurance . . . it's a strawman argument at best and disingenuous obfuscation at worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) How utterly ridiculous comparing fire insurance or any insurance . . . it's a strawman argument at best and disingenuous obfuscation at worst Actually I thought it was a good analogy. But your limited biased scope wants to immediately pounce with that rebuttal claiming it is ridiculous etc. Yet drop the words guns & fire & instead look at it as perceived threat. Folks deal with perceived threat by trying to insure or defend against it. Does not matter what the threat is But again as I also said in that post Personally I have never carried a gun for protection & if I feltI needed to I would not live there. But I cannot presume to tell others what they need or do not need. Edited December 23, 2012 by mania 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 How utterly ridiculous comparing fire insurance or any insurance . . . it's a strawman argument at best and disingenuous obfuscation at worst Actually I thought it was a good analogy. But your limited biased scope wants to immediately pounce with that rebuttal claiming it is ridiculous etc. Yet drop the words guns & fire & instead look at it as perceived threat. Folks deal with perceived threat by trying to insure or defend against it. Does not matter what the threat is But again as I also said in that post Personally I have never carried a gun for protection & if I feltI needed to I would not live there. But I cannot presume to tell others what they need or do not need. Even if it increases the risk of you being shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Off-topic and troll posts removed. Stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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