Americans Fight For Right To Bear Arms - At Work

[jpinx]

How can people like this justify their existence as a politican?

"But some House Republicans, who hold a majority in the House of Representatives have suggested that action on gun legislation was premature and that they were focused on the tragedy."

from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20782805#

[DocN]

BRITISH HOST SLAMS AMERICANS FOR GUNS

Drudgereport headline.

Yeah, he is a c#$@, always has been. Bad interviewer as well.

But...did you ever see what happens, when O'Reiley interviews someone and disagrees with him?

And as much as I really dispise Morgan: he is right on this case!

An idiot in general, but right on this case!

[Gary A]

The USA is a big country. No way would I live in rural USA with all the loony tune druggies running around, UNLESS I had a means of protecting myself and my family. Where do the home invasions happen. They happen where it is unlikely that the family has any protection available. Most of the gun crimes happen in cities where the gun laws are the strictest. Criminals with guns are basically cowards and misfits who will not attack people who may also be armed.

That said, I DON'T need an assault rifle with a 30 round magazine for home protection.

[farang000999]

I hate to be Mr. Obvious but how many of those gun deaths are related to the drug trade? How many of those other 1st world countries listed are bordering Mexico?

[farang000999]

For another comparison, Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world, with somewhere between 1.2 to 3 million guns in the private residences of its approximately 8 million citizens. In 2006 there were 34 recorded murders or attempted murders with a gun, representing a firearm homicide rate of 1 per 250,000.

Statistics... How do they work?

The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides

Obviously there is no other way to kill yourself than with a gun.

[jpinx]

The USA is a big country. No way would I live in rural USA with all the loony tune druggies running around, UNLESS I had a means of protecting myself and my family. Where do the home invasions happen. They happen where it is unlikely that the family has any protection available. Most of the gun crimes happen in cities where the gun laws are the strictest. Criminals with guns are basically cowards and misfits who will not attack people who may also be armed.

That said, I DON'T need an assault rifle with a 30 round magazine for home protection.

Fairy snuff -- but don't you think that if the social climate was a bit better and the policeforce was big enough to do a proper job, then there'd be fewer crazies? Gun controls does not mean gun ban - it means proper vetting and responsible ownership and usage.

[jpinx]

Looks ike this thread is well-populated with gunslingers No need to banish those who have had the courage to face the world unarmed

[samran]

BRITISH HOST SLAMS AMERICANS FOR GUNS

Drudgereport headline.

I watched part of this and turned it off when Morgan got completely out of line. Rude, discourteous, crass and typical of his interviews with anybody he disagrees with.

He now has the lowest rated show on cable television by viewer count, having lost 100,000 or so of Larry King's former audience.

When will CNN wise up and send him back across the big pond.

Gimme a break.

The regular massacre of innocents is the acceptsble price you pay for your precious second amendment, but an interviewer exercising his rights to free speech under the same constitution is unacceptable?

Duddums.

Me thinks your priorities are a little skewed.

Careful -- I got seriously flamed for suggesting something like that,,,,,

I'm not particularly worried. Getting 'flamed' by these blokes is like being flogged by wet lettuce.

They aren't not able to/not willing to/or don't have the brain capacity to see the fundamental contradiction in their own positions.

All tip and no-iceburg is what these folks are.

[Gary A]

The USA is a big country. No way would I live in rural USA with all the loony tune druggies running around, UNLESS I had a means of protecting myself and my family. Where do the home invasions happen. They happen where it is unlikely that the family has any protection available. Most of the gun crimes happen in cities where the gun laws are the strictest. Criminals with guns are basically cowards and misfits who will not attack people who may also be armed.

That said, I DON'T need an assault rifle with a 30 round magazine for home protection.

Fairy snuff -- but don't you think that if the social climate was a bit better and the policeforce was big enough to do a proper job, then there'd be fewer crazies? Gun controls does not mean gun ban - it means proper vetting and responsible ownership and usage.

My kids learned about guns, how to treat them and how to use them when they were very young. If you don't understand that dopers are very dangerous, you are certainly naive.

[jpinx]

The USA is a big country. No way would I live in rural USA with all the loony tune druggies running around, UNLESS I had a means of protecting myself and my family. Where do the home invasions happen. They happen where it is unlikely that the family has any protection available. Most of the gun crimes happen in cities where the gun laws are the strictest. Criminals with guns are basically cowards and misfits who will not attack people who may also be armed.

That said, I DON'T need an assault rifle with a 30 round magazine for home protection.

Fairy snuff -- but don't you think that if the social climate was a bit better and the policeforce was big enough to do a proper job, then there'd be fewer crazies? Gun controls does not mean gun ban - it means proper vetting and responsible ownership and usage.

My kids learned about guns, how to treat them and how to use them when they were very young. If you don't understand that dopers are very dangerous, you are certainly naive.

Glad that the real problem has been fingered. Fix the social problems and people will not become dopeheads. Meantime, at least keep the guns totally out of reach of the crazies

[samran]

The USA is a big country. No way would I live in rural USA with all the loony tune druggies running around, UNLESS I had a means of protecting myself and my family. Where do the home invasions happen. They happen where it is unlikely that the family has any protection available. Most of the gun crimes happen in cities where the gun laws are the strictest. Criminals with guns are basically cowards and misfits who will not attack people who may also be armed.

That said, I DON'T need an assault rifle with a 30 round magazine for home protection.

Fairy snuff -- but don't you think that if the social climate was a bit better and the policeforce was big enough to do a proper job, then there'd be fewer crazies? Gun controls does not mean gun ban - it means proper vetting and responsible ownership and usage.

My kids learned about guns, how to treat them and how to use them when they were very young. If you don't understand that dopers are very dangerous, you are certainly naive.

And I think here in lies the point that most people miss - especially in the US when they point to places like Switzerland and Israel where they have high gun ownership and low levels of gun fatalities.

Basically, everyone is very well trained to use them - and had to have a couple of years of military training to get to that point.

Add to the fact that both these countries have comprehensive health care systems where mental health can be treated more effectively also is another check and balance on the state of play.

A few people have like to use the car analogy here (which I've personally found stupid). ie "if there is a car crash - why don't we ban cars'.

It misses the point, but if we are going along the lines of a car analogy is what you've got in the US is the situation where cars are effectively allowed to drive 200mph in a school zone - and this is condoned as the right to drive 200mph overides everyone elses rights.

What is needed is not to ban cars, but to get them driving at 15mph through the school zone instead.

[chiangmaikelly]

The USA is a big country. No way would I live in rural USA with all the loony tune druggies running around, UNLESS I had a means of protecting myself and my family. Where do the home invasions happen. They happen where it is unlikely that the family has any protection available. Most of the gun crimes happen in cities where the gun laws are the strictest. Criminals with guns are basically cowards and misfits who will not attack people who may also be armed.

That said, I DON'T need an assault rifle with a 30 round magazine for home protection.

Fairy snuff -- but don't you think that if the social climate was a bit better and the policeforce was big enough to do a proper job, then there'd be fewer crazies? Gun controls does not mean gun ban - it means proper vetting and responsible ownership and usage.

My kids learned about guns, how to treat them and how to use them when they were very young. If you don't understand that dopers are very dangerous, you are certainly naive.

And I think here in lies the point that most people miss - especially in the US when they point to places like Switzerland and Israel where they have high gun ownership and low levels of gun fatalities.

Basically, everyone is very well trained to use them - and had to have a couple of years of military training to get to that point.

Add to the fact that both these countries have comprehensive health care systems where mental health can be treated more effectively also is another check and balance on the state of play.

A few people have like to use the car analogy here (which I've personally found stupid). ie "if there is a car crash - why don't we ban cars'.

It misses the point, but if we are going along the lines of a car analogy is what you've got in the US is the situation where cars are effectively allowed to drive 200mph in a school zone - and this is condoned as the right to drive 200mph overides everyone elses rights.

What is needed is not to ban cars, but to get them driving at 15mph through the school zone instead.

The Swiss took away the bullets too; that's gotta help lower the shooting.

[jpinx]

Good grief....

[Jingthing]

As usual, Zakaria hits it out of the ballpark, yet again:

In fact, the problem is not complex, and the solution is blindingly obvious.

...

The U.S. gun homicide rate is 30 times that of France or Australia, according to the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, and 12 times higher than the average for other developed countries.

...

Instead, why not have government do something much simpler and that has proven successful: limit access to guns. And not another toothless ban, riddled with exceptions, which the gun lobby would use to “prove” that such bans don’t reduce violence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-the-solution-to-gun-violence-is-clear/2012/12/19/110a6f82-4a15-11e2-b6f0-e851e741d196_story.html

[samran]

The Swiss took away the bullets too; that's gotta help lower the shooting.

Good for them. Perhaps the US can do the same?

Then you can have all the guns that you want.

Edited December 20, 2012 by samran

[simple1]

As usual, Zakaria hits it out of the ballpark, yet again:

In fact, the problem is not complex, and the solution is blindingly obvious.

...

The U.S. gun homicide rate is 30 times that of France or Australia, according to the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, and 12 times higher than the average for other developed countries.

...

Instead, why not have government do something much simpler and that has proven successful: limit access to guns. And not another toothless ban, riddled with exceptions, which the gun lobby would use to “prove” that such bans don’t reduce violence.

http://www.washingto...d196_story.html

The horse has already bolted with nearly 300 million weapons privately owned. Gun law control should be enacted, but will probably only make a difference to gun related murders in say 20/30 years. Looking at the Israeli regulations for licensed gun owners, once they order their firearm from a gun store, they are allowed to take it home with a one-time supply of 50 bullets, which cannot be renewed. The reality is this restriction would never be permitted in USA, but maybe their is a policy whereby X number of bullets can only be purchased per annum or if used for target shooting all bullets must be purchased at the range and any unused handed back. As to the discussion regards private sales to unlicensed users - 40% of sales - I have no idea how that can be effectively regulated, as well as the huge loophole of mentally ill people not being reported by 13 States & those States that do so under reporting.

As US citizens are now buying weapons at an enormous rate in anticipation of tighter gun laws, cannot the President issue an Executive Order to cease sales until new regulations have been reviewed and enacted?

Edited December 20, 2012 by simple1

[Jingthing]

OMG, America used to the "I can" country; now it's the "I give up, we're too far gone" country.

[jpinx]

As usual, Zakaria hits it out of the ballpark, yet again:

In fact, the problem is not complex, and the solution is blindingly obvious.

...

The U.S. gun homicide rate is 30 times that of France or Australia, according to the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, and 12 times higher than the average for other developed countries.

...

Instead, why not have government do something much simpler and that has proven successful: limit access to guns. And not another toothless ban, riddled with exceptions, which the gun lobby would use to “prove” that such bans don’t reduce violence.

http://www.washingto...d196_story.html

The horse has already bolted with nearly 300 million weapons privately owned. Gun law control should be enacted, but will probably only make a difference to gun related murders in say 20/30 years. Looking at the Israeli regulations for licensed gun owners, once they order their firearm from a gun store, they are allowed to take it home with a one-time supply of 50 bullets, which cannot be renewed. The reality is this restriction would never be permitted in USA, but maybe their is a policy whereby X number of bullets can only be purchased per annum or if used for target shooting all bullets must be purchased at the range and any unused handed back. As to the discussion regards private sales to unlicensed users - 40% of sales - I have no idea how that can be effectively regulated, as well as the huge loophole of mentally ill people not being reported by 13 States & those States that do so under reporting.

As US citizens are now buying weapons at an enormous rate in anticipation of tighter gun laws, cannot the President issue an Executive Order to cease sales until new regulations have been reviewed and enacted?

Exactly right - it is a huge problem so remove the guns from the equation of crazy + gun = dead kids

A full registration scheme with one year amnesty and a buy back scheme and after that people who keep anything unregistered are criminalised. That's a start,,,,,,,

[Chicog]

I must listen to Alex Jones, I bet he's going apoplectic.

[simple1]

OMG, America used to the "I can" country; now it's the "I give up, we're too far gone" country.

No I wasn't saying that, now was I?

Edited December 20, 2012 by simple1

[Asiantravel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jplh7uatr-E&feature=player_embedded#!

[koheesti]

Restricting ammo just might work. There are a lot of people who make their own ammo at home. But they aren't the low-life criminal types looking for a quick score. They are the true gun enthusiasts who probably have an NRA membership card in their pocket. But if criminals can figure out how to make drugs, they can probably figure out how to make their own ammo too...eventually.

[Chicog]

I think the whole mental health issue is a smokescreen the NRA and Gun lobby are using in this instance to try and distract from the obvious.

How many normally sane people who legally own guns go off on one when they have a stressor like divorce, loss of employment, etc?

And what's the first thing someone who is emotionally disturbed should NOT be able to lay their hands on and fill with bullets?

Answers on a postcard....

Edited December 20, 2012 by Chicog

[culicine]

There are some really dumb Yanks out there !

I wonder if you will dare say that when they all have guns at work!

Boss: could you please get back to work....*said kindly*

Employee: No, I'm still on my 3 hour coffee break"

Boss: Ok, take all the time you need.....would you like anything? Another coffee perhaps...or a foot rub?

[chuckd]

Here is an interesting little snippet from today's news. It would seem the Democrats have problems with gun control as well as those dreadful Tea Party (which doesn't exist) conservatives.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pelosi: Harry Reid and 'Big Money' Are the Reasons I Didn't Hold Any Votes on Gun Control from 2009 to 2011

11:09 AM, DEC 20, 2012 • BY JOHN MCCORMACK

...from the article...

But when nearly 260 Democrats controlled the House from 2009 to 2011, then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi didn't hold a single vote on gun control. Why not?

“Perhaps you’re familiar with the 60-vote rule in the Senate," Pelosi told me. "Our members are very courageous. They’ll walk the plank on any tough vote. But I don’t want them to walk the plank on something that’s not going to become the law.”

...and...

From 2009 to 2011 there were either 59 or 60 Democrats in the Senate, plus five Republicans who had voted for the "assault weapons ban" in 2004 (Judd Gregg, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, George Voinovich, and Dick Lugar). In other words, it was Democratic opposition in the Senate, chiefly from Majority Leader Harry Reid, that disuaded Pelosi from holding a single vote on gun control from 2009 to 2011.

Of course, Pelosi was more than willing to vote on other measures, such as cap-and-trade, that stood little chance of passing the Senate. Why did Pelosi choose to ratchet up pressure on Senate Democrats over cap-and-trade but not gun control? "Well, I’m not going to speculate about that," DeGette told me following the press conference.

Entire article here: http://www.weeklysta...nds_690733.html

[Credo]

The damage isn't done by what the Democrats didn't do. The damage is done by what the Republicans have done.

[mania]

The damage isn't done by what the Democrats didn't do. The damage is done by what the Republicans have done.

These merry go rounds always make me dizzy

How about we just say each Human is responsible for his or her own wrongful actions?

Too easy?

None should ultimately be blamed for what some nut job did.

It is not due to what anyone else did or didn't do.

It is due to what the perpetrator of the crimes did period.

If not where does this frivolous blame game end?

Criminals are not infants that need to be excused for their crimes

because some adult did not lock away every dangerous tool out there.

Republicans or Democrats did no harm by upholding Constitutional Law

at least not in the minds of adults

[chuckd]

The damage isn't done by what the Democrats didn't do. The damage is done by what the Republicans have done.

So you are denying any Democratic Party responsibility for the so-called lack of gun control?

Interesting.

[DocN]

The damage isn't done by what the Democrats didn't do. The damage is done by what the Republicans have done.

So you are denying any Democratic Party responsibility for the so-called lack of gun control?

Interesting.

You are denying the tea party exists, so....

[Credo]

The damage isn't done by what the Democrats didn't do. The damage is done by what the Republicans have done.

So you are denying any Democratic Party responsibility for the so-called lack of gun control?

Interesting.

No, just responding to your accusation that they coulda/shoulda/woulda done something. Personally, I think a discussion of Democrat/Republic politics isn't the topic. Plenty of Democrats carry guns.