At Least 27 Dead In Connecticut School Shooting - Cbs News

[telldem]

I just got back in the States today and this is big news. All the murdered children were 6 to 7 years old...It makes you want to hug your kids a little tighter.

R.I.P to all the victims of this senseless crime.

Sent from my LG-MS770 using Thaivisa Connect App

[chuckd]

Hopefully this will be on topic since it refers to public school security in the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama administration, Congress quietly let school security funds lapse

UPDATED 23:43 PM EST, DECEMBER 14, 2012 | BY JOHN SOLOMON AND KIMBERLY DVORAK

Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.

More here: http://www.washingto...ecurity-failure

[Credo]

Obama administration, Congress quietly let school security funds lapse

UPDATED 23:43 PM EST, DECEMBER 14, 2012 | BY JOHN SOLOMON AND KIMBERLY DVORAK

Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.

More here: http://www.washingto...ecurity-failure

Have to make those tea baggers happy, and save money--but not lives. Can't limit anybody's right to own or shoot a gun.

I think that the far right wing is going to find out that most people are getting really fed-up with their crap. You call it rights, but it's not.

An empty vessel makes the most noise.

[NCFC]

Just what is wrong with the culture that makes some many young American males go out and commit these massacres?

In this case, the young man comes from a very comfortably-off family. He lived in a large house with a swimming pool in great surroundings. The family had plenty of money and could have wanted for nothing materially.

Compare this with so many Thai kids who live in poverty and little chance of ever escaping a life of few opportunities. So many Thai families struggling to cope with little in the way of material benefits.

So many of these school killers seem to come from comfortable middle-class backgrounds and want for nothing. If only they could experience what many Thai kids have to deal with.

I can't comment on a solution, whether it be gun control or some other control, because I simply don't understand what drives these young men to kill.

Edited December 16, 2012 by NCFC

[rucus7]

Do grown ups really need to play with military grade weaponry in the year 2012??

[KuhnPaen]

Do grown ups really need to play with military grade weaponry in the year 2012??

http://en.wikipedia....habara_massacre

The Japanese tend to like using trucks and knives more.

BTW>>>nice eye catching poster. Its easier than actually reading about WHY Europe's murder rates are lower. It's not gun control.

http://www.law.harva...auseronline.pdf

Edited December 16, 2012 by Scott

[tideout]

The US is a violent country. It's history is full of violence within the country and it seems constantly involved in violent conflict around the globe. Some of the most popular video games for kids re-enact warfare and violence. It's not a surprise then that the violence turns inward in horrible ways.

Where did you get that brilliant deduction? Guess you burried your head in the sands when it comes to Sudan, Libia, Syria, Afhganastan, Southern Thailand, Brazil, just to name a few. Better look into your own back door before saying the US is the most violent. Our wonderful press today paint a doomsday picture for everyone. If you think American movies are violent better check out novies made in China, Japan. and South Korea. Ands some Euorpean movies aren't exactly tame either.

US has some random weirdness for sure, but I have not l have not locked a door in years at either of residences. One in a large city and the other a popular beach area similar to Phucket. Thiskind of thing shocks because it dies nit matter where you are, something weird can happen. I am not worried at all about me. If anything happened to my children I would freak.

I'm glad you haven't had any problems, but history isn't defined by one or two doors that are locked or not.

[tideout]

My son is much less violent and angry here, in fact he is content and creative. Hmmmm, 1 year not watching USA's violent TV and movies simulating thousands of acts of death destruction and treachery, as well as a lot of bad cussing and loud obnoxious aggressive selfish behavior encouraging materialism and wealth,power.

I was exposed to hours of that crap and commercials too, it's being consumed daily and spreading more violence. I miss the 1950's...

I think your post may be overlooked but strikes pretty close the hear of the matter. Violence and aggression is hard to separate from the American DNA at this point and goes back to the early days of the country. It's why any substantial change will be difficult to realize.

[koheesti]

After reading the below article, I feel the problem are teenagers/young adults who are loners at school, dress in black, wear trench coats, have above average intelligence, are "Goths" or have Asperger's. The Colombine killings were also done by the same type. As were the Dark Knight killings. To be safe, we should round them up, test them, identify the potentially dangerous ones and lock them up. That would save a lot of lives.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248782/High-school-tech-club-student-turned-cold-blooded-executioner-How-classmates-remember-genius-Adam-Lanza.html

[chuckd]

Obama administration, Congress quietly let school security funds lapse

UPDATED 23:43 PM EST, DECEMBER 14, 2012 | BY JOHN SOLOMON AND KIMBERLY DVORAK

Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.

More here: http://www.washingto...ecurity-failure

Have to make those tea baggers happy, and save money--but not lives. Can't limit anybody's right to own or shoot a gun.

I think that the far right wing is going to find out that most people are getting really fed-up with their crap. You call it rights, but it's not.

An empty vessel makes the most noise.

Please explain how the Tea Party (i,e, Republicans) have any influence whatsoever on what the Obama administration does or does not do.

The so called Tea Party controls nothing in either House of Congress and the Republicans control only one half of Congress. The Senate (Democratic controlled) has not passed a budget in nearly four years. Continuing resolutions aren't cutting it.

You might consider reading up on recent US history.

[koheesti]

Do grown ups really need to play with military grade weaponry in the year 2012??

http://en.wikipedia....habara_massacre

The Japanese tend to like using trucks and knives more.

BTW>>>nice eye catching poster. Its easier than actually reading about WHY Europe's murder rates are lower. It's not gun control.

http://www.law.harva...auseronline.pdf

Interesting link to that incident in Japan.

For those of us who don't want to download a PDF (or any other) file, can you tell what the second link is about?

[jpinx]

Do grown ups really need to play with military grade weaponry in the year 2012??

http://en.wikipedia....habara_massacre

The Japanese tend to like using trucks and knives more.

BTW>>>nice eye catching poster. Its easier than actually reading about WHY Europe's murder rates are lower. It's not gun control.

http://www.law.harva...auseronline.pdf

Interesting link to that incident in Japan.

For those of us who don't want to download a PDF (or any other) file, can you tell what the second link is about?

That .pdf is a crock... Harvard wanting to blame Russia for spreading bad information about USA gun useage.

[koheesti]

Obama administration, Congress quietly let school security funds lapse

UPDATED 23:43 PM EST, DECEMBER 14, 2012 | BY JOHN SOLOMON AND KIMBERLY DVORAK

Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.

More here: http://www.washingto...ecurity-failure

Have to make those tea baggers happy, and save money--but not lives. Can't limit anybody's right to own or shoot a gun.

I think that the far right wing is going to find out that most people are getting really fed-up with their crap. You call it rights, but it's not.

An empty vessel makes the most noise.

Please explain how the Tea Party (i,e, Republicans) have any influence whatsoever on what the Obama administration does or does not do.

The so called Tea Party controls nothing in either House of Congress and the Republicans control only one half of Congress. The Senate (Democratic controlled) has not passed a budget in nearly four years. Continuing resolutions aren't cutting it.

You might consider reading up on recent US history.

I don't think that any gov't program for more security in school would have reached the elementary school in Newtown. That would be one of the last places I would expect security to be needed.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

Please stay on the topic of the OP.

[NeverSure]

I think that the far right wing is going to find out that most people are getting really fed-up with their crap. You call it rights, but it's not.

Wishful thinking. You don't know how it works. This is a constitutional issue. To change the constitution, 2/3 of the states have to decided to each vote to change it. That won't happen in my lifetime because too many of them are rural. It actually gets more complicated than that even, so it isn't something which can be politically driven by, well, politicians.

90 million adult Americans own guns. One of them committed a horrible crime at a school. 89,999,999 didn't. I wish I had those odds on the roads in Thailand where it seems everyone is trying to kill me.

[jpinx]

I think that the far right wing is going to find out that most people are getting really fed-up with their crap. You call it rights, but it's not.

Wishful thinking. You don't know how it works. This is a constitutional issue. To change the constitution, 2/3 of the states have to decided to each vote to change it. That won't happen in my lifetime because too many of them are rural. It actually gets more complicated than that even, so it isn't something which can be politically driven by, well, politicians.

90 million adult Americans own guns. One of them committed a horrible crime at a school. 89,999,999 didn't. I wish I had those odds on the roads in Thailand where it seems everyone is trying to kill me.

Isn't it correct that the problem is not the guns themselves, but the lack of gun control and security when they are in private hands? This latest tragedy was caused by a mentally unstable person having easy access to multiple guns owned by his own family. Controlling and securing arms is just common sense or anyone can walk into your house and "borrow" whatever you have lying around in the kitchen drawers or where-ever.

To take the driving corollary - driving licence standads could be improved by making the test more stringent. Similarly with guns - a potential gun owner has a responsibility to prove that they are a fit and proper person for such ownership.

[DocN]

After reading the below article, I feel the problem are teenagers/young adults who are loners at school, dress in black, wear trench coats, have above average intelligence, are "Goths" or have Asperger's. The Colombine killings were also done by the same type. As were the Dark Knight killings. To be safe, we should round them up, test them, identify the potentially dangerous ones and lock them up. That would save a lot of lives.

http://www.dailymail...Adam-Lanza.html

What?

I didn't even read the article, because if it makes you come to the conclusion, that all "Goth" people and/or Batman-fans should be rounded up and tested psychologically, it must be a) crap or b ) you dint't understand it!

I love the Batman- movies and I don't even own a gun and non of the movies made me want to go out and shoot 20 people!

Guess, I am off the hook then!

But your idea sounds much better than just getting tighter gun laws. Just randomly pick a group that can be widely put under one label and test them.

And to prevent terrorist attacks, just round up everyone looking arabic and test them.

And to prevent children from being molested, just round up all creepy looking guys....brave new world!

Hopefully this will be on topic since it refers to public school security in the US.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama administration, Congress quietly let school security funds lapse

UPDATED 23:43 PM EST, DECEMBER 14, 2012 | BY JOHN SOLOMON AND KIMBERLY DVORAK

Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.

More here: http://www.washingto...ecurity-failure

What modern, democratic, educated country need " money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies"?

[Chicog]

After reading the below article, I feel the problem are teenagers/young adults who are loners at school, dress in black, wear trench coats, have above average intelligence, are "Goths" or have Asperger's. The Colombine killings were also done by the same type. As were the Dark Knight killings. To be safe, we should round them up, test them, identify the potentially dangerous ones and lock them up. That would save a lot of lives.

http://www.dailymail...Adam-Lanza.html

Oh yes, let's lock people up for crimes they haven't even committed.

Very bright idea.

[folium]

Do grown ups really need to play with military grade weaponry in the year 2012??

http://en.wikipedia....habara_massacre

The Japanese tend to like using trucks and knives more.

BTW>>>nice eye catching poster. Its easier than actually reading about WHY Europe's murder rates are lower. It's not gun control.

http://www.law.harva...auseronline.pdf

We cannot simply look to Washington, or any set of politicians, for end-all-debate solutions. Gun laws are only one part of the broader discussion about how to manage guns and attitudes toward guns in American society. Along with gun laws, there is a need for public education efforts. This is precisely what was done with cigarettes: make them harder to buy (through taxes) and accompany that with public information campaigns (commercials, billboards, etc.). Why should we treat guns any differently?

Let’s be honest: we can’t stop shootings completely. There will always be hard-to-comprehend acts of violence. But these facts should not prevent us from taking steps to improve the situation at hand. We might not be able to stop all instances of gun violence, but we can work to slow their occurrence — so long as we all agree that there is somewhat of a problem, believe improvements can be made, and accept that solutions are more complex than we have been led to believe.

Talking of simplistic nonsense the link posted above needs to be highlighted for what it really is.

Let's start with the fact that it was not a "Harvard University" study, as neither author has any connection with that renowned body of learning and knowledge. Rather, the paper was published in a *student* journal run by conservatives/libertarians. Check their web page, and - suspiciously - no mention of submissions being peer reviewed, nor is there a standard list of editors to guarantee the seriousness of the journal.

There is precious little "data" in the report, and comes all in the form of tables, with no statistical analysis.

The murder rate in Luxembourg is overstated by an order of magnitude, and since that country plays a major role in the argument based on their Table 2...

Being an utter cynic I wonder if they were "sponsored" to produce this piece, but who would be interested in doing that.....?

Four real Harvard (http://www.hsph.harv...eath/index.html) studies conclude that:

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide.

2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

3. Across states, more guns = more homicide.

4. Across states, more guns = more homicide (part 2)

Moreover (http://ije.oxfordjou.../2/214.full.pdf), "the rate of firearm deaths in the United States exceeds that of its economic counterparts eightfold and that of UMI (upper-middle-income) countries (9.69) by a factor of 1.5.

Finally, there is a pretty nice correlation (yes, I know, correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation, though the two are highly correlated, as statisticians say) between percent gun ownership and firearm deaths *within* the US (http://www.statcrunc...?reportid=15389).

Edited December 16, 2012 by folium

[chuckd]

What's amazing to me is the mindset of liberals vs.conservatives.

If conservatives don't like guns, they don't buy them.

If liberals don't like guns they don't want anybody to buy them.

Some of you people need to get a life.

[Credo]

That is very disingenuous. I am a liberal and I support the 2nd Amendment. I don't own a gun, never wanted one on my property, and didn't allow hunting on my land. My neighbors all had guns and I didn't begrudge them their weapons--which were seldom used, I might add.

I object to concealed weapons (generally) and assault type weapons.

Not all us liberals believe there should be no guns. In the US we have a pervasive attitude that leads people to believe that guns solve problems. In part, the attitude has to change. No law is going to do that--it is going to take a shift like there was with cigarette smoking--which still is available, even though it is very bad for you.

[DocN]

What's amazing to me is the mindset of liberals vs.conservatives.

If conservatives don't like guns, they don't buy them.

If liberals don't like guns they don't want anybody to buy them.

Some of you people need to get a life.

Total BS!

But a common point, made by right wingers!

No one wants to take guns away or forbid the sale of guns.

But just like not everybody can be an astronaut (for obvious reasons), not EVERYBODY should be able to buy guns.

Simple but totally different from what you accuse the pesky liberals of!

Edited December 16, 2012 by DocN

[sustento]

Some of you people need to get a life.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could say that in a thread that's talking about 27 dead people.

[aussiebebe]

That is very disingenuous. I am a liberal and I support the 2nd Amendment. I don't own a gun, never wanted one on my property, and didn't allow hunting on my land. My neighbors all had guns and I didn't begrudge them their weapons--which were seldom used, I might add.

I object to concealed weapons (generally) and assault type weapons.

Not all us liberals believe there should be no guns. In the US we have a pervasive attitude that leads people to believe that guns solve problems. In part, the attitude has to change. No law is going to do that--it is going to take a shift like there was with cigarette smoking--which still is available, even though it is very bad for you.

I like your post, so do you think this latest shooting will cause a shift in attitude? As a foreigner looking at the US, I myself wonder when the tipping point will arrive. Out of the 12 worst shooting sprees in US history, 6 happened in the past 5 years and every time I've wondered "maybe this time" but nothing changes. With this latest shooting, with 20 of the victims being just 5-6 years old, if nothing happens this time I'll just be dumbfounded, what will it take? 20 innocent Kindergarten students shot on average 11 times each and it's still not enough to counter the NRA's influence on US gun laws?

[folium]

That is very disingenuous. I am a liberal and I support the 2nd Amendment. I don't own a gun, never wanted one on my property, and didn't allow hunting on my land. My neighbors all had guns and I didn't begrudge them their weapons--which were seldom used, I might add.

I object to concealed weapons (generally) and assault type weapons.

Not all us liberals believe there should be no guns. In the US we have a pervasive attitude that leads people to believe that guns solve problems. In part, the attitude has to change. No law is going to do that--it is going to take a shift like there was with cigarette smoking--which still is available, even though it is very bad for you.

I like your post, so do you think this latest shooting will cause a shift in attitude? As a foreigner looking at the US, I myself wonder when the tipping point will arrive. Out of the 12 worst shooting sprees in US history, 6 happened in the past 5 years and every time I've wondered "maybe this time" but nothing changes. With this latest shooting, with 20 of the victims being just 5-6 years old, if nothing happens this time I'll just be dumbfounded, what will it take? 20 innocent Kindergarten students shot on average 11 times each and it's still not enough to counter the NRA's influence on US gun laws?

Solutions to gun crime in the USA?

No easy ones that will just fall off a proverbial tree. But here are a few humble suggestions....

Treat guns like cigarettes. Admit they are a problem, crank up the prices of weapons and particularly ammunition via taxes, reinvest the revenue generated in public education programmes and weapon buy backs.

All handguns and semiautomatic weapons made illegal. Buyback programme instituted for these, expensive but worth the investment. All weapons have to be securely stored with ammunition kept separately, annual police checks of this and only hunting weapons allowed with a license.

40 years ago most adults smoked (and drink driving was not regarded as much of an issue) now it is regarded as somewhat weird. Perhaps the attitude re weapons might go the same way. Any decent society can change the way it does business if enough people regard current activities and attitudes as unacceptable.

[Credo]

Aussiebebe, I don't know what it will take, but I grew up with the gun culture and hunting. I wasn't very crazy about hunting, but it was OK. What did turn me completely off was once wounding an animal and having to then kill it, up close and personal. It was the last thing I ever shot. I also then lost interest in guns, although they were all around me and there was always a rifle in the pickup.

The difference was that when I and many of my generation grew up, if we had a gun, it was for hunting animals. Now people seem to have guns for shooting people--people of different races; people of different religions; people with different politics etc..

I enjoy TV and watch a lot of the series--CSI, NCIS and a few sitcoms--but it is a constant explosion of gunfire on most of them. Maybe it's from fighting in too many conflicts? But it's a part of the psyche. We need to have our guns and we need to shoot at things. Unfortunately, we've nearly wiped out the wildlife, so now we shoot each other.

This psychological idea has to change. Guns need to be seen as a tool and the fascination factor needs to disappear. Until then, there will be a problem with shooting rampages.

[koheesti]

Isn't it correct that the problem is not the guns themselves, but the lack of gun control and security when they are in private hands? This latest tragedy was caused by a mentally unstable person having easy access to multiple guns owned by his own family.Controlling and securing arms is just common sense or anyone can walk into your house and "borrow" whatever you have lying around in the kitchen drawers or where-ever.

True to a point, but the killer had "easy" access to weapons in the house after he killed his mother.

[koheesti]

After reading the below article, I feel the problem are teenagers/young adults who are loners at school, dress in black, wear trench coats, have above average intelligence, are "Goths" or have Asperger's. The Colombine killings were also done by the same type. As were the Dark Knight killings. To be safe, we should round them up, test them, identify the potentially dangerous ones and lock them up. That would save a lot of lives.

http://www.dailymail...Adam-Lanza.html

What?

I didn't even read the article, because if it makes you come to the conclusion, that all "Goth" people and/or Batman-fans should be rounded up and tested psychologically, it must be a) crap or b ) you dint't understand it!

I love the Batman- movies and I don't even own a gun and non of the movies made me want to go out and shoot 20 people!

Guess, I am off the hook then!

But your idea sounds much better than just getting tighter gun laws. Just randomly pick a group that can be widely put under one label and test them.

And to prevent terrorist attacks, just round up everyone looking arabic and test them.

And to prevent children from being molested, just round up all creepy looking guys....brave new world!

I guess you're bringing all Batman fans into this because you can't really find fault with what I actually wrote. First, you don't even read the article I was commenting on, then you add things to my comment in order to disagree. It would be better just to post a fresh comment with your view than to try and connect it to things you haven't read or misread.

[jpinx]

Isn't it correct that the problem is not the guns themselves, but the lack of gun control and security when they are in private hands? This latest tragedy was caused by a mentally unstable person having easy access to multiple guns owned by his own family.Controlling and securing arms is just common sense or anyone can walk into your house and "borrow" whatever you have lying around in the kitchen drawers or where-ever.

True to a point, but the killer had "easy" access to weapons in the house after he killed his mother.

I believe the mother was shot, so the son had easy access to the guns before she was killed. If the controls had been in place, the guns would have been under lock and key in a HD steel locker - as was mine when I had a rifle for hunting in UK. The police checked on me without appointment and always wanted to see how I kept the weapon and the ammo separately and with different keys for access. If such rudimentary safeguards had been in place then the outcome in CT might well have been very different. The deranged son would have to resort to a knife or axe or similar and the total toll of dead would have been considerably less.

[endure]

An off topic post has been removed. This thread is not about the EU, bankers or NATO. It is about a shooting in Connecticut.