For Those That Have Children ....

[sylvafern]

It can happen [taking children from a pram] but it's not like it happens all the time .... just happened once to me, but has happened to 3 other mothers I know .... also once only and this is over the course of the 8 years I've been in Thailand.

Think-too-mut - sorry that you think I am "bullshitting" and trying to get a bite from others .... have way more better things to do than waste my time making up stories. I wrote the original post at a time when this was really upsetting me asking how other people deal with it.

If you don't have this problem - lucky you and lucky them, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to others. Can I ask, are you children pale skinned with pale hair, or are they dark skinned or full Thai? If they are darker skinned or full Thai, this just proves the point that others made that this nearly always only happens to light skinned or farang babies and kids. If your kids are farang/light skinned and are able to move through a shopping center or similar without recieving abnormal attention from strangers then you are, like I said, very lucky.

Why don't you ask some farang friends or collegues you know, especially women, and see what they think ..... Without a doubt I garuntee they will be able to tell you similar stories about the way Thais react to their child (again, I'm talking about strangers here, not people known to them).

Edited November 21, 2006 by sylvafern

[patongpanda]

I have a 16 month old son who's half-Thai (but very light-skinned) who is constantly grabbed, touched, kissed, pointed at, talked about, etc, etc when we're out in public, e.g. shopping. I don't mind if it's just a wave, a game of peek-a-boo, or a comment on how cute he is .... but when he's grabbed, touched, taken out of his push-chair when my back is turned, or is being mobbed by people taking photos of him on their phones it really stresses me out, especially when I've already specifically told someone not to do it (shop assistants are the worst!). Sometimes, in my limited Thai, I attempt to explain the concept of stranger danger, but other times I literally push the person away or keep walking at the same pace and run them over with the push chair (and then feel bad cos they weren't to know they were the 20th person that day to maul him). How do others cope with it? Does it drive you crazy or do you just accept it as part of the culture here?

I love it. I hand over my 8-month old son and have a break. He usually comes back in a couple of hours.

[helicoptor]

We have never allowed stangers to mess with our children in the way that is common in Thailand - But let me clarify 'Common'.

Thais do this to foreign kids. They do not do this to the children of other Thais they do not know.

Putting asside disease, there is an issue about establishing the right of a child to its own privacy in its own body.

When our daughter was young we caught one woman cutting a curl of blond hair off my daughter's head! Pinching, tickling, picking the children up was obviously more the norm, my response, our response was to take care of our children first and care about Thai sensibilities second.

I treat any stanger who wants to mess with our kids exactly the same, no matter who they are (Thai or not).

They do so at their perril.

I've slapped hands, pinched people back, and in that extreme case where we caught a woman cutting a blond curl off my daughter's head, I took the scissors off her and cut a chunk out of her own hair.

Thais don't do this to the children of other Thais they don't know, and to put it in context. If they came across a wealthy Thai and his family, the would not even dare go near the children, let alone mess with them.

Good Post GH, as I stated earlier on this thread manners are universal and irrespective of whether its the "Thai way", it's not 'My way' and anyone attempting to manhandle my son in any way as described in this thread will, under no undertain terms get a 'zero tolerance from me'.

[Alliecat]

I have only just found this thread - and my god do I hear you. I go out with my four month old baby, people want to touch, pet, stroke, take him away from me all of the time.

People have woken him up while he was asleep in his fathers arms by pinching his legs (out of dads line of sight), have taken him from me and walked off with him, kissed him, fed him food, all sorts. Most of it is harmless and my bubba just maintains a bored look. It's not until the night that he has nightmares and his stress comes out.

Now I realise how it is affecting him I limit the amount of exposure he has, limit the amount of touching he receives and make sure if he is being touched by people he doesn't know then I (or his dad) am always with him. Now I put him in the pram, he has a sun shade over him to protect him from both the sun and the constant attention.

He's young and I feel that a certain level of exposure to other people is good - having read about the baby kidnappings I will keep it in mind. But having experienced the mob mentality that can happen I know why this thread was started - it is quite hard to handle at first. My friends have not understood until they come out with me. One friend is positively rude to all the questions and attention he receives. Its not jealousy on her part, it's simply that she does not live in Thailand and it is overwhelming.

A smile goes a long way. "No" goes even further.

Basically my baby comes first and i have developed (very fast) the skills to protect him.

[Siwanan]

When we adopted our first Thai child, and we were new parents in a strange culture with our cute 1 year old baby..oh, what a mistake we made to go to a shopping malls with him! While we were looking for some baby clothes, a group of saleswomen took our child from a pram and put him to sit on a counter, suddenly about ten women around him, touching and laughing. Our child was in panic (You know, he just get new parents, and suddenly a group of Thais grab him!), we were almost in tears (in panic too)..

After first time, that could happen in every other shop, restaurants etc. if we were not fast enough to stop it.

Well, that was before I get to know this culture, but I was angry because I felt like those strangers ignore me as a mother, just took my baby like he was theirs.

[helicoptor]

Well now that we are now here in LOS, I can comment first hand on this topic,

We have an 8 month old son who is 100% farang, blonde hair, blue eyes, we have been here now only two weeks but already so many incidents to report, some neutral, mainly positive, none negative.

Going about our shopping around Big C, Tesco Lotus, etc we get a lot of staring, thais normal reaction are to smile when they see our boy, some stop and gently pinch his leg or speak to him, ask how old he is and whether he 'girl or boy' (dressed in blue, with t-shirt & shorts IMO obvious what sex he is).

The car park attendant at foodland asks boy or girl, when I tell him boy he gives me the which makes me

GF is getting a bit with all the attention but for me I don't mind it. It actually makes me feel that he is MY son.

Its also great when we go for something to eat, the waitresses want to pick him up and run around with him showing him off, as he doesn't mind this neither do we; it also stops him getting irate and bored just sitting in his buggie while we eat, if he didn't like it we wouldn't allow it.

Each time someone wants to hold him or even take a picture of him, they have asked beforehand which is what I would expect, as I said before manners are universal, irrespective of where you are.

We are only 2 weeks in though, but for now its mainly good and, in the main, the attention doesn't bother us.

[leisurely]

Give it time, give it time.....................

[November Rain]

It's the ka-nom thing that gets me more than the touching. I'm sorry, with all due respect to the Thai culture, I still do not get how complete strangers think they have the complete & unassailable right to give my child any snack they see fit at any time of the day! No regard for food allergies or intolerance, no regard for my rules as regards what he eats & when... He has been given everything from fruit (not too bad, apart from the principle) to candy, to chicken satay, to potato crisps (chips) to gum, and never once have I been asked if it's OK. I've had to teach him (5 yrs old) to come & ask me if it's OK to take something offered, because he evidently has more sense than those doing the offering!

[chanchao]

OMG...

What in incredible load of Expat-angst on these pages.. Quotes like these gave me a good laugh (well, smirk) :

off with him, kissed him, fed him food, all sorts. Most of it is harmless and my bubba just maintains a bored look. It's not until the night that he has nightmares and his stress comes out.off with him, kissed him, fed him food, all sorts. Most of it is harmless and my bubba just maintains a bored look. It's not until the night that he has nightmares and his stress comes out.

...

oh, what a mistake we made to go to a shopping malls with him! While we were looking for some baby clothes, a group of saleswomen took our child from a pram and put him to sit on a counter, suddenly about ten women around him, touching and laughing. Our child was in panic (You know, he just get new parents, and suddenly a group of Thais grab him!), we were almost in tears (in panic too)..

For crying out loud.. I have a VERY cute 1 year old, and frankly I think it's a blessing that people toddle around with her. I recall a VERY funny Dave Barry column about the lunacy of 'taking kids to restaurants' because with all the crap kids pull there's no time left to actually stick food in your mouth... Well what a blessing Thailand is then!! There's enough waitresses around to give you some time, and I welcome it if they go play with the baby for a bit so you actually get to eat. I wouldn't allow just any complete stranger to cart her off to unknown areas but that's easily explained if needed.

You got a life in Thailand now go live it and check your US/Euro Suburban Angst at the door.

There.

[sbk]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions chanchao, as you are yours.

"judge not lest you be judged" is some very wise, very old advice that many know but do not heed.

[chanchao]

I have to say though there's a VERY noticeable difference between when Mum is around or not. If mum is around, people keep their distance much more. But when it's just dad & baby it seems a free for all to come chat & play. Dad doesn't mind the attention.

Still some in this discussion seemed to think that it's distressing to interact with strangers/other people. I submit that most distress that you see in young children is mirrored from Mum's distress. Like when they fall over and don't really hurt themselves, but Mum throws a tantrum then 10 times out of 10 the baby will feel hurt / uneasy and will cry.

Always having been a shy kid myself, it gives me great pleasure to see my baby respond so well to strangers.

[Boo]

As others have said already, if it was "normal" attention then it isn't a problem but removing a kid from it's pushchair without parents permission & wandering off with it can be distressing for both parent & child. If you think that hard pinching or in the one instance of someone trying to cut a lock of the kids hair is ok, then good luck to you but but if some stranger wandered off with my kid or cut it's hair they will regret it.

As said previously, your kid, your rules. I dont' think "western angst" has anything to do with it. Imagine the worst senario where you lost your child or someone really hurt it, I'm sure that you'd wish you had had more angst (btw I hope it never happens)

[Siwanan]

Chanchao,

Think again; first time in Thailand, we didn't speak a word Thai, group of strangers take our new baby and carry him from a shop to a staff's room where we couldn't see him. And that gives You a good laugh? There are reasons why it is good that mom is around..

[think_too_mut]

My daughter is adorable and people's attention was mostly about asking her mother if it is a good job to look after a farang baby.

Restaurants - we never wanted to disturb anyone, over last 3 years we have been 6-7 times to the restaurants, when the baby was small and sleeping in her carry-on capsule.

I am with Chanchao, that Thais would take the baby while the parents are having their dinner. It happened 2-3 times. Not a big deal, just customer service. With a Thai twist - we felt the baby was in good hands.

Certainly, we are proud when our child jumps into a deep water at the swimming pools, while Thais say "only a crazy farang would let a child do this".

Farangs, their kids looked like a sissified version of cartoons, have never done that. Their parents guarding them were not much better themselves.

[Nawtilus]

I agree with Chanchao, having 2 of them, never had a problem.

TTM... I also love it when both my kids are far more independant and social. My son was jumping inot the deep end at 2y0 and standing at the end of the diving board at 3 and jumping in. Thais were amazed by it, the main thing was my son loved it and what he enjoyed, I enjoyed. He aslo goes down the big slide at Siam park at 4yo, we go together, he thinks it is awesome, all the Thai families at the bottom clap when he comes down.

If anyone allows or leaves their child to be taken off somewhere that they cannot be seen, then perhaps the people that take the child should not be blamed alone.

[Sakeopete]

I am sorry to rain on the parade.

The original post is a rubbish, things like that might happen, if accumulated accross the entire farang comunity.

Thais taking up a child from it's prem? Give me a break. Bullshit.

Could be, a mother too proud of her baby telling us some unbelievable stories. Or having her own problems.

I am surprised that so many posters took the bite.

You are wrong 'think_too_mut', I have a son who just turned 1 y/o and from the time he was 3 months till present he has been taken out of his stroller several times especially by sales ladies at the mall. Most hold out their hands to him and give me a look to get approval but one did not. My wife became very upset with her for not asking for our approval. My son always gets the attention mention by the OP including many sniff kisses, he doesn't mind the attention. I never see that attention given to the 100% Thai babies at the mall but at our condo complex I see the 100% Thai babies get the same attention from neighbors.

I did have one incident at Dream World where a lady that worked at one of the games booth took a fancy to him and wouldn't give him back to me I had to peel my son away from her.

[chanchao]

> Think again; first time in Thailand, we didn't speak a word Thai, group of strangers

> take our new baby and carry him from a shop to a staff's room where we couldn't

> see him. And that gives You a good laugh?

So I take it you speak better Thai now so as to not remain a social dyslexic? What do you suppose a bunch of shop girls do with the kid, fry it up in their wok along with any pets they hunter-gathered off the streets on their way to work?

[sbk]

My my what a judgemental lot you are.

As Boo has said, your kid, your rules. It is not your place to tell another person how to feel or react to a situation that they are uncomfortable with. Something to remember when posting

[Boo]

There has been reports of a 13year old boy missing after getting separated from his parents at a large departments store in London. He doesn't speak english so like most small children, cannot communicate with whoever might find him. But for all you who like to judge so much, remember, it only takes a split second for a child to dissapear in a crowd.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6172699.stm

Edited December 15, 2006 by Boo
changed age

[chanchao]

That's actually a good point about getting lost. I'll go find some dog-tags (if that's what they're called) for the kid to wear.

( Of course in department stores they just announce it if they find stray kids. )

[Boo]

The point if you read if properly, is that this boy was never found to make an announcment. He was seperated for a couple of minutes & no one has seen him since. So what happened to him, a 13y/o old boy who speaks no english?? The police are now saying he was picked up by an opportunist. Who knows but he isn't with his family anymore thats for sure.

So mock or judge other people for not allowing strangers for wandering off with their kids or handling them and if you don't mind it happening then thats your perogative but not everyone who trys to wander off with your child may be a kindly shop assistant or with the best intentions. But as the parent, you have to decide the limits & so do the other parents who commented here.

Oh, and yes, department stores will put an announcement but ONLY if they find the kid in the first place.

[JacknDanny]

The point if you read if properly, is that this boy was never found to make an announcment. He was seperated for a couple of minutes & no one has seen him since. So what happened to him, a 13y/o old boy who speaks no english?? The police are now saying he was picked up by an opportunist. Who knows but he isn't with his family anymore thats for sure.

So mock or judge other people for not allowing strangers for wandering off with their kids or handling them and if you don't mind it happening then thats your perogative but not everyone who trys to wander off with your child may be a kindly shop assistant or with the best intentions. But as the parent, you have to decide the limits & so do the other parents who commented here.

Oh, and yes, department stores will put an announcement but ONLY if they find the kid in the first place.

I hear what you say Boo. I am a father and I am very ,very protective towards my 5 yr old. However here in Thailand I really do feel as though he is a lot safer than he would be in the UK. There are stories in England every day about bad things happening to kids. Here in Bangkok, I really do feel that society is a lot more child friendly and as such personally do not panic when someone wants to touch him, within reason, and before when he was a baby, women used to always want to hold him. As a single parent, I took this as a positive for my son, not having his mother around. He never suffered because of it and he enjoyed it!!

[soihok]

The point if you read if properly, is that this boy was never found to make an announcment. He was seperated for a couple of minutes & no one has seen him since. So what happened to him, a 13y/o old boy who speaks no english?? The police are now saying he was picked up by an opportunist. Who knows but he isn't with his family anymore thats for sure.

So mock or judge other people for not allowing strangers for wandering off with their kids or handling them and if you don't mind it happening then thats your perogative but not everyone who trys to wander off with your child may be a kindly shop assistant or with the best intentions. But as the parent, you have to decide the limits & so do the other parents who commented here.

Oh, and yes, department stores will put an announcement but ONLY if they find the kid in the first place.

This is so sad.

We lost our dauhgter for about 15 mins at a park in Singapore this year, she is 4 and unable to speak due to her being mentally disabled.

I am ,utterely,unable to imagine the grief that we would suffer if she had not been found.

I spent three and a half hours of dental surgery the next day and could only think of wandering aimelessly around that place forever looking for her,,,never felt a thing with the teeth.

I go by only one rule as far as kids out of the house go.

Never,ever let your kid out of your sight.

You cannot take any risk

[El Taco Loco]

Our 8 month old, half Thai half Brit, gets approached a lot. If anything because his skin is very white (whiter than me). It does drive me nuts when people come up and touch his hands and everywhere else. But as we live in Thailand, I accept it. However his mom is very very quick on the draw with her wet wipes to clean his hands or anywhere else he has been touched, after we walk away.

She also does tell them he is not well and that stops most of them. Othertimes it backfires and they touch him more, hoping to comfort this "sick" baby.

Every parent in this forum has a right to allow or not, others touching their kids. I do not understand some of the angst to others who do not like it. To each his own.

I have bitten my lip many times whiles Thais sing about my son, but at the end, he is well loved by all and love is very short in this world nowadays.

[DrFisher]

I guess I'm lucky. I'm part American Indian so my children look Chinese; people think my wife and I adopted them!

[Livinginexile]

I have a 16 month old son who's half-Thai (but very light-skinned) who is constantly grabbed, touched, kissed, pointed at, talked about, etc, etc when we're out in public, e.g. shopping. I don't mind if it's just a wave, a game of peek-a-boo, or a comment on how cute he is .... but when he's grabbed, touched, taken out of his push-chair when my back is turned, or is being mobbed by people taking photos of him on their phones it really stresses me out, especially when I've already specifically told someone not to do it (shop assistants are the worst!). Sometimes, in my limited Thai, I attempt to explain the concept of stranger danger, but other times I literally push the person away or keep walking at the same pace and run them over with the push chair (and then feel bad cos they weren't to know they were the 20th person that day to maul him). How do others cope with it? Does it drive you crazy or do you just accept it as part of the culture here?

I have an 8 month son, half Thai and I have the same experience. Lighten up dude, Thai people love children, especially narack ones.

Me and my son love the attention and it can only be a positive experience for my son. Learn to enjoy it.

[JacknDanny]

I have a 16 month old son who's half-Thai (but very light-skinned) who is constantly grabbed, touched, kissed, pointed at, talked about, etc, etc when we're out in public, e.g. shopping. I don't mind if it's just a wave, a game of peek-a-boo, or a comment on how cute he is .... but when he's grabbed, touched, taken out of his push-chair when my back is turned, or is being mobbed by people taking photos of him on their phones it really stresses me out, especially when I've already specifically told someone not to do it (shop assistants are the worst!). Sometimes, in my limited Thai, I attempt to explain the concept of stranger danger, but other times I literally push the person away or keep walking at the same pace and run them over with the push chair (and then feel bad cos they weren't to know they were the 20th person that day to maul him). How do others cope with it? Does it drive you crazy or do you just accept it as part of the culture here?

I have an 8 month son, half Thai and I have the same experience. Lighten up dude, Thai people love children, especially narack ones.

Me and my son love the attention and it can only be a positive experience for my son. Learn to enjoy it.

Totally agree

[chanchao]

Sorry to dig this one up again, but I now have fresh and very recent experience on how strangers in Western countries treat small children they may encounter.

To some it up:

In Europe, the only people who as much as smiled at my baby were actually Asian!! The natives: Complete *complete* absence of all traces of even acknowledging another human being, all be it a young one. It was just weird beyond words.

But then that's why we call Thailand home.

Edited January 9, 2007 by chanchao

[think_too_mut]

Sorry to dig this one up again, but I now have fresh and very recent experience on how strangers in Western countries treat small children they may encounter.

To some it up:

In Europe, the only people who as much as smiled at my baby were actually Asian!! The natives: Complete *complete* absence of all traces of even acknowledging another human being, all be it a young one. It was just weird beyond words.

But then that's why we call Thailand home.

On my recent flight from NZ to Japan, there was a baby crying it's guts out. The parents were tatooed (fingers and necks included), ignorant trailer camp people (I guess).

Who calmed the baby? A Philipina woman who took the baby under her wing, while the parents were drinking their double whiskeys, careless.

[t.s]

i like it. i go to restaurants, someone takes care of the kid. I try on a pair of pants someone takes care of the kid.

personally, i don't know how i would handle raising a child back in north america.