The Idle And Productive

[swissie]

As I often do, I took a drive through the countryside with my motorbike today, just to see the sights. I saw what I have seen before: People sitting around the house, chatting, watching TV, eating and sleeping.

This is in a boom aerea, where labor-shortage is becoming a real problem. About 150 km N/W of Bangkok and since the affluent Bangkok-Elite has discovered, that one does not have to go to Chiang Mai to see a beautiful, hilly countryside, we are beeing flooded by them, especially over the weekend. Thanks to them, this is "Boom-Town".

My point: Inspite of labor-shortage and relatively high wages, a good part of the adult population seems to prefer the life of "sitting around the house". I admire those people. They seem to be resistent to anythig that would look like entering some sort of "Rat-Race", as it is a standart way of living in "the west".

But I wonder how long this passive life-style can last, knowing well that the neighbouring countries of Thailand are "hungry", willing to learn, willing to advance and much more willing to hop on the merry go round of earning, spending, earning, spending etc. etc.

I myself would hate to see Thailand turning into another Japan.

Before closing, I would like to describe the life of my neighbours 18 year old son. During the night he sleeps. During the day he operates a hammock with his left hand to keep it swinging (somebodies 1 year old baby is in the hammock ), in his right hand a remote control so he can change channels on the TV. This is his day !

I asked him with the help of a translator "how you get money". Answer: Soon I will cut sugar-cane. Will give me cigarette money for long time. I turned bold and asked: When you have wife and children what you do? After some time of reflection the answer was: Maybe I have to cut more sugar-cane.

= If by any chance an european "productivity-enhancer" (from McKinsey etc) should read this, he will probably suffer a mild heart-attack.

Cheers.

[cardholder]

I have never seen better examples of genetic laziness and lack of responsibility than in Thailand.

[SantiSuk]

A hopeful future is too unobtainable for the rural poor - those with capital have made sure they have tied up all the real money-making opportunities.

So it takes an exceptionally motivated individual to break out of the 'why bother' mould. I'm sure that had I been born to my Thai parents in law I would not have turned into the money-making machine that my own upwardly mobile working class parents made of me in the UK.

I can't see Thailand developing out of its medieaval economic structures without an enlightened dictatorship or a revolution

Edited December 19, 2012 by SantiSuk

[Thot]

I too was surprised by the apparent "laziness" of the locals. How could they sit around and talk all day long, sometimes for days at a time. Then when planting and harvesting time came around the Kabuta's with wagons, loaded with people, headed out in early morning and did not return until late afternoon. They either planted rice or harvested rice. Those Etan trucks nosily headed out to the field to plant/harvest the cassava/corn and returning late in the day filled to the brim with a cash crop.

I have watched the folks improve their lives over the years. They do work for it. Spending all day in the sun bent over doing rice or picking up baskets of cassava/corn and walking it up a plank to dump in the truck.

It is exremely hard work from my perspective. I could not do it.

Others who do not have land work at construction or as a farm hand and most stay busy, but not always. There will always be at least one lazy drinking person about, anywhere in the world.

[jamescollister]

You have to remember that we from the west lived a similar life style pre industrial revolution, farmers worked the season, roof thatchers worked the good weather etc.

There is a pub on the royal mile in Edinburgh, on the wall is a sign telling, that in days gone the poor sat out the winter in pubs too keep warm. All they could afford was french claret and oysters.

Since most rural Thais have no mortgage or rent to pay, have very small food costs, limited transport costs, why would they want to adopt a western 50 or 60 hour working week. Would we do it if we had no mortgage or rent, food bills and hi power costs to keep warm.

Like Pavlov's dogs we have been trained to salivate at the thought of a bigger house, newer car, wide screen HD TV with blue ray. Once a year we go on holiday, swing in a hammock, drink, talk and do what the Thais do most days. Who's really the fool. Jim

[transam]

I have never seen better examples of genetic laziness and lack of responsibility than in Thailand.

Try Lao.

[Michael Hare]

You have to remember that we from the west lived a similar life style pre industrial revolution, farmers worked the season, roof thatchers worked the good weather etc.

There is a pub on the royal mile in Edinburgh, on the wall is a sign telling, that in days gone the poor sat out the winter in pubs too keep warm. All they could afford was french claret and oysters.

Since most rural Thais have no mortgage or rent to pay, have very small food costs, limited transport costs, why would they want to adopt a western 50 or 60 hour working week. Would we do it if we had no mortgage or rent, food bills and hi power costs to keep warm.

Like Pavlov's dogs we have been trained to salivate at the thought of a bigger house, newer car, wide screen HD TV with blue ray. Once a year we go on holiday, swing in a hammock, drink, talk and do what the Thais do most days. Who's really the fool. Jim

I do this every day in Ubon and get paid for it. My work is my hobby. I get a real buzz out of my work which for the most part is rewarding and relaxing. At the same time I keep fit and healthy.

[cardholder]

You have to remember that we from the west lived a similar life style pre industrial revolution, farmers worked the season, roof thatchers worked the good weather etc.

There is a pub on the royal mile in Edinburgh, on the wall is a sign telling, that in days gone the poor sat out the winter in pubs too keep warm. All they could afford was french claret and oysters.

Since most rural Thais have no mortgage or rent to pay, have very small food costs, limited transport costs, why would they want to adopt a western 50 or 60 hour working week. Would we do it if we had no mortgage or rent, food bills and hi power costs to keep warm.

Like Pavlov's dogs we have been trained to salivate at the thought of a bigger house, newer car, wide screen HD TV with blue ray. Once a year we go on holiday, swing in a hammock, drink, talk and do what the Thais do most days. Who's really the fool. Jim

When you have nothing (and are used to having nothing) there is not much that you need.

[Jezz]

There's something enchanting and relaxing about Thai villages that seem to have a lot of people doing nothing. On the other hand many people work harder than I would know how at harvest time. Okay, it's a small part of the year but vital to the communities. Yes, when the harvest is in several things happen - at least in my family. If it's been a good harvest they give a lot of money and produce to the monks at surrounding temples, invite extended family to enjoy lap-up meals in celebration, and buy little extras that have had to wait. Also keep in mind many family members who do go off to work in the big cities like Bangkok travel home to help with the harvest. It's their working holiday. Many village families also have relatives working abroad and sending money home to support the rest of the family. No doubt there'll always be the others who'll continue to sit in the sun outside the house all day not caring too much about the future - so long as someone else is bothering.

[cardholder]

There's something enchanting and relaxing about Thai villages that seem to have a lot of people doing nothing. On the other hand many people work harder than I would know how at harvest time. Okay, it's a small part of the year but vital to the communities. Yes, when the harvest is in several things happen - at least in my family. If it's been a good harvest they give a lot of money and produce to the monks at surrounding temples, invite extended family to enjoy lap-up meals in celebration, and buy little extras that have had to wait. Also keep in mind many family members who do go off to work in the big cities like Bangkok travel home to help with the harvest. It's their working holiday. Many village families also have relatives working abroad and sending money home to support the rest of the family. No doubt there'll always be the others who'll continue to sit in the sun outside the house all day not caring too much about the future - so long as someone else is bothering.

A friend observed that the 'average Thai rice farmer' was not unduly over-worked. They would get someone with a Kubota to plough the land. They spread (or watched cheap village labour) throw rice seed around. They would watch the rains come and MAY throw a bit of fertilizer on the land at some stage. Come harvest time they would watch as the rice harvester gathered the crop.

[Jezz]

A friend observed that the 'average Thai rice farmer' was not unduly over-worked.

The good news is smaller rice harvesters are now more available at realistic rates, making it possible for small farmers to save a bit of wear and tear on their backs. Maybe in years to come there'll be fewer old women bent double, unable to straighten after a lifetime of planting and cutting rice by hand.

[jamescollister]

A friend observed that the 'average Thai rice farmer' was not unduly over-worked.

The good news is smaller rice harvesters are now more available at realistic rates, making it possible for small farmers to save a bit of wear and tear on their backs. Maybe in years to come there'll be fewer old women bent double, unable to straighten after a lifetime of planting and cutting rice by hand.

Out my way people still harvest by hand, but it is not a big rice area. As posted before, went for a ride, away from the jungle mountain area, not 20 km and saw not one person harvesting by hand. All the fields had been make bigger so machines could do the work. Just like cassava here, people chop it by hand and spread it to dry along the road side. Think that way will be gone in the next few years. The times they are a changing. Jim

[Jezz]

The times they are a changing. Jim

Right. My family have worked it out that the cost of paying labourers to cut by hand costs roughly the same as hiring a mechanical harvester.

[transam]

The times they are a changing. Jim

Right. My family have worked it out that the cost of paying labourers to cut by hand costs roughly the same as hiring a mechanical harvester.

but 2 weeks quicker eh.

[Jezz]

but 2 weeks quicker eh.

Thereby hangs a tale. The rice bagged up at the time of mechanical cutting was all emptied out again to dry, raked over and turned for a few days, then rebagged by hand! Still room for refinements me thinks. Edited December 19, 2012 by Jezz

[jamescollister]

The times they are a changing. Jim

Right. My family have worked it out that the cost of paying labourers to cut by hand costs roughly the same as hiring a mechanical harvester.

but 2 weeks quicker eh.

Not only faster, my sheet rubber tappers had to go to cup as they could not find workers to harvest. Most of the rice planting and harvesting here is a family concern. Hard to find anyone to harvest at 300 Baht a day. Machines can go 24/7, people can't. Look at the wheat fields of the west, they drive from one end of a country to the other, just basic cost minimization, 10 men can dig a hole in 10 days. One digger can do it in less than a day.

Was doing a few calculations on how things are done here, watched some guys planting rubber trees using little stick digging tools and hoe shovel things. If they were on 300 Bath a day, which they are not, but paid by the hole. With my pick and real shovel I can out dig any 5 locals. Have to say I have dug a few holes in my life, but I would make over 1000 Baht a day just digging holes with real tools.

If the ground is rock hard from no rain they soak it to soften the soil, mister pick and I and just smash through. Jim

[isanbirder]

I find most of the older people in our village work quite hard to make a meagre living, but many of the youngsters just do the occasional day's work (for lao kao money), and sponge on their parents for the rest. The ones who do work are generally doing so in Bangkok or somewhere else where they can earn a steady 300 baht a day or more. And they do send money back to the village.

The difference between the younger generation and their parents is that the younger people have grown up wanting TV, DVD player, mobile phone, motorbike etc, and don't want to work to pay for them. The older people realise that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

[swissie]

I find most of the older people in our village work quite hard to make a meagre living, but many of the youngsters just do the occasional day's work (for lao kao money), and sponge on their parents for the rest. The ones who do work are generally doing so in Bangkok or somewhere else where they can earn a steady 300 baht a day or more. And they do send money back to the village.

The difference between the younger generation and their parents is that the younger people have grown up wanting TV, DVD player, mobile phone, motorbike etc, and don't want to work to pay for them. The older people realise that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Hit's close to home and my opening thread title.

The older generation is content with this livestyle. But if the younger generation wants DVD, Mobile Phones, TV and Motorbikes, the sweet life of humble idleness will have to come to an end.

You can't have it all, right? In short: The usual "Rat-Race" will have to commence. (I think these days it's called blind "consumerism".)

Well, I for one decdided to get away from this "merry go round", and that's why I am here in the sticks in Thailand. Due to my age , I am confident, that I will not have to sit here and see Thailand turn into another Japan.

Cheers.

[krisb]

Once there was a Rich man walking near the beach, he saw this Fisherman lying down inside his boat. Resting and enjoying the breeze of the air that comes from the ocean. The fisherman seemed to care less of what was going on around him and simply lying down like a lazy person doing nothing at all...

The Rich man was bothered seeing this Fisherman seemingly doing nothing. He went close to the fisherman and ask, "Excuse me sir, but what are you doing?" The fisherman replied without hesitation, "I'm resting!"

Then the Rich man said, "Are you not going to go out fishing?"...... "No, I have already caught enough fish for the day." the fisherman replied. The Rich man told to himself "This fisherman is such a lazy person".. So he asked again... "Why wouldn't you go out and catch more fish?" Then the fisherman puzzled and asked... "What will I do with those more fishes?" ... The Rich man laughed to himself, thinking the fisherman was so stupid and said... "Well, you could sell it to others. Then, if you'd sell them, you could buy a new bigger boat.. then afterwards maybe you could get more fishes with these big boats and get more boats to catch more fishes... Then maybe in time you would be rich like me and have more money..."

Then the fisherman still puzzled and asked a question... "And...... what will I do with a lot of money???"

Then the Rich man astonished thinking how stupid this guy is said..... "Then you could relax and have fun for yourself?"

Strikingly the fisherman replied and asked..... "SO WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM DOING?"

Edited December 22, 2012 by krisb