Village Violence

[somo]

Asking for advice or experience of similar stuff.

Few days ago a Thai friend of mine in our village was attacked late at night in his home by 4 guys who beat the shit out of him with clubs. The reasons were trivial and just amounted to his wife getting into an argument over 100Baht.

Needless to say he is in hospital. the local amphur police have so far done nothing and the village boss says he doesn't want anything to do with it and they should come to a financial arrangement.

The guy and his wife want the attackers, who are known, to be locked up. The poo yai ban employs the attackers on his land so I think that explains his lack of outrage and he obviously knows the amphur police well so I suspect there has been a bit of consultation going on as to what to do or not to do.

This is the sort offence that in the UK may well be classed as attempted murder and certainly GBH +++ Probably an 8-10 year sentence

My question is this. Should they go to a higher police office and report the lack of action. They are currently at the hospital in Chayapoum town so it would seem the convenient thing to do. Also should they consult a lawyer who may well have police contacts in order to get things moving? After much badgering the amphur police have said they cannot do anything until the friend presents himself at the station to fill out the complaint.

This I think is rubbish and just stalling as the crime is serious and obvious and the villains are known. Perhaps by complaining to a larger police staion they may get some response.

My biggest worry is that if things are not sorted and the bad guys locked up my friend will take matters into his own hands which will escalate the violence considerably.

Would appreciate any advice

[cardholder]

Regrettably, my answer would be "Keep out of it" - unless you are Thai, which I doubt.

It is not your business and the Thais have their own ways of dealing with these situations - most of the outside the rule of law.

That doesn't make it right but you ain't gonna change it.

[Jezz]

you ain't gonna change it.

Sadly that may well be the case.

[somo]

I figured that would be at least one view but he is a friend and to me that means something whatever his nationality. Equally I don't want to become involved inwhat could become a long term feud and have to watch my back for the next 20 years.

I was going to vist him in hospital but he advised against it for that very reason so my help will stay in the background and to do that I need to give him the best advice as to what he can do. The police tend to think of all villagers as stupid so they can just ignore them if they wish so I want them to show they are not stupid.

[I Like Thai]

I figured that would be at least one view but he is a friend and to me that means something whatever his nationality. Equally I don't want to become involved inwhat could become a long term feud and have to watch my back for the next 20 years.

I was going to vist him in hospital but he advised against it for that very reason so my help will stay in the background and to do that I need to give him the best advice as to what he can do. The police tend to think of all villagers as stupid so they can just ignore them if they wish so I want them to show they are not stupid.

That's just what you think they think and may not be true at all.

You're talking about rural Thailand. Survival of the strongest is still very much the rule here. Your friend is basically powerless to do anything about this situation.

Depeding on how influential his attackers are, either he takes matters into his own hands to resolve this or he will just have to accept it. You will only make matters worse if you get involved

[cooked]

The police can do something about it, some cash may need to change hands. They don't think that villagers are stupid, they think that they have no money.

Sorry about your friend.

[rgs2001uk]

Few days ago a Thai friend of mine in our village was attacked late at night in his home by 4 guys who beat the shit out of him with clubs. The reasons were trivial and just amounted to his wife getting into an argument over 100Baht.

The guy may well be a friend, but are you being told the whole story.

I have found at times Thais can be very economical with the truth.

I have also observed over the years, you dont just get beaten up by 4 guys for no reason, the main reasons are usually, loss of face, money or women,

The beating may well have been the last in a chain of events leading up to this, you may well be unaware of what led to this.

Until you know all the facts its hard to know exactly what happened.

Forget the UK, you are living in medieval fuedal Thailand.

Lets be honest, a poo yai baan in this day and age.

[somo]

I figured that would be at least one view but he is a friend and to me that means something whatever his nationality. Equally I don't want to become involved inwhat could become a long term feud and have to watch my back for the next 20 years.

I was going to vist him in hospital but he advised against it for that very reason so my help will stay in the background and to do that I need to give him the best advice as to what he can do. The police tend to think of all villagers as stupid so they can just ignore them if they wish so I want them to show they are not stupid.

That's just what you think they think and may not be true at all.

You're talking about rural Thailand. Survival of the strongest is still very much the rule here. Your friend is basically powerless to do anything about this situation.

Depeding on how influential his attackers are, either he takes matters into his own hands to resolve this or he will just have to accept it. You will only make matters worse if you get involved

Thinking about what other people may think or not think is a waste of thinking in my thoughful opinion!

This is about what they can do other than go and shoot the bad guys because that is very likey to happen if they feel there is no other way.

I am trying to find this other way and advise them of it. His attackers are not influencial just poor farm workers. Come the crunch the poo yai ban will not stand by them but as of now it is a question of how to make the authorities pay attention.

At the moment they are all hoping that if things are delayed long enough it will just go away.

How to kick start them into meaningful action is what i would like to know.

[I Like Thai]

I figured that would be at least one view but he is a friend and to me that means something whatever his nationality. Equally I don't want to become involved inwhat could become a long term feud and have to watch my back for the next 20 years.

I was going to vist him in hospital but he advised against it for that very reason so my help will stay in the background and to do that I need to give him the best advice as to what he can do. The police tend to think of all villagers as stupid so they can just ignore them if they wish so I want them to show they are not stupid.

That's just what you think they think and may not be true at all.

You're talking about rural Thailand. Survival of the strongest is still very much the rule here. Your friend is basically powerless to do anything about this situation.

Depeding on how influential his attackers are, either he takes matters into his own hands to resolve this or he will just have to accept it. You will only make matters worse if you get involved

Thinking about what other people may think or not think is a waste of thinking in my thoughful opinion!

This is about what they can do other than go and shoot the bad guys because that is very likey to happen if they feel there is no other way.

I am trying to find this other way and advise them of it. His attackers are not influencial just poor farm workers. Come the crunch the poo yai ban will not stand by them but as of now it is a question of how to make the authorities pay attention.

At the moment they are all hoping that if things are delayed long enough it will just go away.

How to kick start them into meaningful action is what i would like to know.

May I respectfully suggest that you apply this to the situation you are endeavouring to involve yourself in.

[Huayrat]

Just keep out of it nosey falang... They dont live or defend themselves like us.. In my wifes villang 10 men chopped a guys head off with a machete only to find out it was the wrong guy they wanted.. stay out of it this aint your country where law exists

Edited December 20, 2012 by metisdead
: Underscore removed.

[metisdead]

A post advocating killing somebody has been removed as well as the replies.

[jamescollister]

Somo, been there done that and I am an ex cop and prison officer, UK and OZ.

Best advise keep out of it, but if you want to get involved, or believe you should stand up for the right, there are ways.

First don't deal with the local cops if you are not connected, the local police are usually locals and family ties go along way. I can not get a ticket out here, wife calls the local police chief Pa. Small thing, yet when we caught a guy selling stolen rubber he would not act. Family connections, not only to him, but many of the officers under his command, they have to live in the same villages.

District Governor, not the elected one the one appointed by BKK, not a local and we have had lunch many a time. Go see him, he phones the Police district commander. Tells him to get his ass into gear, next day the rubber thief is in cuffs and gives up all his rubber stealing friends.

Not really different from the west, it's who you know, not what is just.

BIL got beaten up 2 years ago, went to the police, nothing they could do. He returned with the FIL [ district life time job coroner type] and a few of the local village heads Cops could do nothing, no case to prosecute, but if the ring leader disappeared there would be no investigation.

This year alone the border army around here has pulled out 6 bodies and it's a big jungle out there.

Don't think your western ideas hold firm here, Karma is real and those who do bad will end up being taken care off in the end.

Even in the west we used to say, what goes around, comes around. Jim

[somo]

Just keep out of it nosey falang... They dont live or defend themselves like us.. In my wifes villang 10 men chopped a guys head off with a machete only to find out it was the wrong guy they wanted.. stay out of it this aint your country where law exists

You are clearly racist so please stop offering advice.

Please only post if you have something positive to say as to how I can advise my friend.

[somo]

Somo, been there done that and I am an ex cop and prison officer, UK and OZ.

Best advise keep out of it, but if you want to get involved, or believe you should stand up for the right, there are ways.

First don't deal with the local cops if you are not connected, the local police are usually locals and family ties go along way. I can not get a ticket out here, wife calls the local police chief Pa. Small thing, yet when we caught a guy selling stolen rubber he would not act. Family connections, not only to him, but many of the officers under his command, they have to live in the same villages.

District Governor, not the elected one the one appointed by BKK, not a local and we have had lunch many a time. Go see him, he phones the Police district commander. Tells him to get his ass into gear, next day the rubber thief is in cuffs and gives up all his rubber stealing friends.

Not really different from the west, it's who you know, not what is just.

BIL got beaten up 2 years ago, went to the police, nothing they could do. He returned with the FIL [ district life time job coroner type] and a few of the local village heads Cops could do nothing, no case to prosecute, but if the ring leader disappeared there would be no investigation.

This year alone the border army around here has pulled out 6 bodies and it's a big jungle out there.

Don't think your western ideas hold firm here, Karma is real and those who do bad will end up being taken care off in the end.

Even in the west we used to say, what goes around, comes around. Jim

At last a considered reply, thank you JC

Not having any significant connections is it worth going to the city police (perhaps with a financial incentive) who are more removed from the situation in the hope they will get the amphur police to act?

Also could a lawyer do anything to get things moving or are they most likely a waste of time and money.

Like I said above I am not stupid enough to get directly involved (never been any good with guns) but just want to research the best advice I can give in the background.

I suppose when it comes down to it I am trying to figure what i would so if it was me that was subject to such an attack.

Would I stay and fight for some kind of justice, run away, do a money deal or pick up a gun? These are my friends choices and I do sympathise with him. At the end of the day it is his choice but I want to give him the best advice as i do fear that the last option is the one he is going for.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^^^, you are sadly mistaken if you think there is some sort of rank structure over here, where if you bypass someone and go above him his superior will override him, wrong, it dont work like that.

Its a feudal society, why do you think so many local immigration offices can apply rules that dont apply in Bkk?

A lawyer is a complete waste of time and money, only my opinion based on what I have seen and been told.

JC has nailed it, let it go or live with the fallout.

Face will come into play someday, this victim you talk of is probably already planning how to extract revenge with no comeback.

There are somethings its best not to know about.

[jamescollister]

Somo, if you know a good lawyer and they are few, good way to go.

The builder at my house [for 3 years now] slow is not the word.

His father was attacked with a steal bar, he is 70 years old. The attacker [ Known by by the father ] is a yabba addict. Cops took a report and said they will deal with it, meaning when they pick him up at a road block, or he gets arrested i in BKK . Could not be bothered to go out and look for him. 2.000 Baht later they could be bothered and went out and arrested the guy. I paid as usual.

As said justice will be done, but a bit of grease makes it happen faster.

On a bright side my rubber thieves got a year, where in the west they would have got a good behavior order. Jim

[richardjm65]

I can only agree with the cautions suggested so far. It's not your game. The aggrieved will, at some time, find his own way of dealing with it. Could be a year or two down the line, but the grudge will not be forgotton. There's a hierarchy in each village and the police and residents in those villages understand that. There's nothing to be gained by you, (a foreigner), trying to enforce what you perceive as justice by calling in a higher authority - it just won't work.

Far better to avoid setting yourself up as an easy target, no matter how angry you may be and however much you may disapprove of the injustice. Keep out of it. Thai village customs and law work their own way, in their own time. There will likely come a time of reckoning.

Stay cool.

[SlyAnimal]

Ask your friend how you can help, and help him.

That's the best you can do.

He knows the rules, he knows the people, he knows what is possible and what is not. He also knows the full story on why he was beaten up, and the appropriate response.

You might not know the full story, 4 guys beating the crap out of him over 100 THB doesn't sound right, not unless he really heavily insulted them.

If he's not willing to goto the police himself, then there's probably a good reason why (And it might be that he simply prefers a financial arrangement). You'd do best to cede to his wishes.

[rgs2001uk]

Ask your friend how you can help, and help him.

That's the best you can do.

He knows the rules, he knows the people, he knows what is possible and what is not. He also knows the full story on why he was beaten up, and the appropriate response.

You might not know the full story, 4 guys beating the crap out of him over 100 THB doesn't sound right, not unless he really heavily insulted them.

If he's not willing to goto the police himself, then there's probably a good reason why (And it might be that he simply prefers a financial arrangement). You'd do best to cede to his wishes.

4 guys beating the crap out of him over 100 THB doesn't sound right

Agree 100%,

Unless its a case of mistaken identity and I doubt that very much here from whats been said, as a general rule in Thailand, you will know who attacked you (or ordered for you to be attacked) and you will know the reason you were attacked.

This wasnt no random beating, someone was sending a message.

[Riley'sLife]

I understand the OP's sense of injustice, which many of us share, but it must be remembered that this is NOT the UK. Things are done differently here, especially upcountry.

I would seriously counsel the OP to keep well clear of ANY involvement. It is simply not worthwhile getting involved even on the periferary, let alone actively. Escalation could prove extremely dangerous, and even fatal.

Let your Thai friend and his Thai friends/family deal with it. The police would be the only help the OP could personally call upon if needed, and they have already made their stance abundantly clear. I suggest you could even consider having a vacation for a few weeks to give yourself an excuse for not getting involved. Things can turn nasty here in the blink of an eye.

[somo]

I do indeed know the full story

The wife was involved in a loud shouting match over the 100 baht and insults were thrown back and forth.

Hubby passing on his tractor said anyone messing with his wife would have to go through him and carried on thinking not too much about it.

His wife is a loud mouthed so and so but straight talking lady which is unusual in these parts and why I like her. having said all that there is history and everone in the incident is related one way or another so for sure there are emotions there I am not party too.

This may well have just been the spark who knows. All I am trying to do is give best advice whilst staying in the background.

while no one stirs things up the minor actors in the village and amphur have their way but I strongly suspect that if I can discretley give them a push from above they may start to do their duty.

It is just a question of how to prod them into it. As we all know inaction is rife here but it can be overcome I feel with incentives.

I am currently in Bangkok and already have an armed guard at my house. Bit over the top I feel as there is no obvious link to me and only my 78 year old MIL + crazy alcholic BIL there. My wifes family are however taking it seriously. Will find out more over the New Year

[jamescollister]

^^^^^^^, you are sadly mistaken if you think there is some sort of rank structure over here, where if you bypass someone and go above him his superior will override him, wrong, it dont work like that.

Its a feudal society, why do you think so many local immigration offices can apply rules that dont apply in Bkk?

A lawyer is a complete waste of time and money, only my opinion based on what I have seen and been told.

JC has nailed it, let it go or live with the fallout.

Face will come into play someday, this victim you talk of is probably already planning how to extract revenge with no comeback.

There are somethings its best not to know about.

There is a very strong rank structure here. The system is hard for westerners to see, but if is there.

3 or 4 years ago while having lunch in the the big city of Buntharik. At the table was the FIL, sub district governor [ who acted as my best man/cousin for my wedding ] District and Vice Governors, plus a few other people with pull. Before anyone asks, I was not paying, that would make me above them.

Anyway I ran out off smokes, drinking bee,r have to smoke. Go to walk to the shop, Gov throws me the keys to his car.

Get stopped by a young cop at the intersection on the main road, have 50 Baht, no wallet, on ID, he is not happy.

Limited Thai, but he comes back to the restaurant.

Cop is not happy, his new posting will be in Yala or Pattenya. who you know as equals and friends make the difference here.

As an ex cop, stood up for him, he was just doing his job.

See him sometimes at a check point when taking the kids to school, just a big smile and waved through. Jim

[somo]

That's a bit like what is happening to me.

Ex cop/soldier with guns galore adopted me as a friend a while back and has now turned up uninvited but fully equiped to sleep on our balcony until things sort themselves out. My concern is that he already feels we are somehow involved! Having said that he is also one of those who can get away with anything!

[cbrer]

Simple advice for any situation in Thailand.

Never get involved in any way and leave Thailand for the Thais.

You sit back, put your feet up, and enjoy the show.

[PoodMaiDai]

As it was already mentioned, STAY OUT OF IT. They will sort it out in their own way, for better or worse. The moment you get involved, you run a high risk of becoming the target and everyone turning on you.

When I worked in South Africa we had to deal with very unsavory characters. Lots of real criminals there who would eat the most hardened Thai for breakfast. The locals knew the police would not help them in situations such as this so the only way to deal with it was have them killed. Sometimes the police would do it for them for a small fee. I don't condone such things, just telling you how they did it in South Africa. We are all westerners living in a region of the world where life doesn't mean a whole lot. Uneducated people instantly turn to violence and unfortunately there is only one way to deal with those types. Locking them up only prolongs the inevitable, which is their release and revenge on the person who put them there and caused the loss of face.

[jamescollister]

Simple advice for any situation in Thailand.

Never get involved in any way and leave Thailand for the Thais.

You sit back, put your feet up, and enjoy the show.

Easy to say if you don't make your living here. As the movie said. no country for old men. Not young myself, but have had to sleep tooled up, or as the yanks would say. loaded for bear. My land, my kids future and come and steal from my kids, you will have a problem. Jim

e

[cbrer]

Not young myself, but have had to sleep tooled up, or as the yanks would say. loaded for bear. My land, my kids future and come and steal from my kids, you will have a problem. Jim

For the love of Buddha move your family to a society where you don't have to sleep 'tooled up' to feel safe.

[Lickey]

Some of you might remember a post i made some years ago about the wifes cousin getting badly beaten by a drunk at her home, the local cops wanted 10kbht to go talk with this man, cousin didnt have money, i offered to pay, Mrs says no, Nobody messes with our family, a year later this fella got a poison bamboo sliver in his ear, verdict, drunk himself to death at Sonkram,

Somo, dont get involved, it will sort itself out,

And although mrs brother is a police captain, he said he had no jurisdiction or pull in our area,

[PoodMaiDai]

Simple advice for any situation in Thailand.

Never get involved in any way and leave Thailand for the Thais.

You sit back, put your feet up, and enjoy the show.

Easy to say if you don't make your living here. As the movie said. no country for old men. Not young myself, but have had to sleep tooled up, or as the yanks would say. loaded for bear. My land, my kids future and come and steal from my kids, you will have a problem. Jim

e

I think it is a little different when they come to YOUR house. Then it becomes your problem. But unless the problem happens to you, your house, or direct family (wife and kids), you need to stay out of it.

[SantiSuk]

OP asks for advice from falang; falang give advice (pretty consistently); OP gives every indication of wanting to ignore falang advice.

So it's the Thais that have a strange culture is it?