Government asserts Bt2 trillion loans manageable

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, Dec 28 – The Thai government’s plan to seek Bt2 trillion loans will raise the country’s public debt to 49.9 per cent in 2016, a level which is manageable, according to the Finance Ministry.

Chularat Sutheethorn, director of the Public Debt Management Office (PDMO), said a bill on the Bt2 trillion loans for infrastructure investment will be proposed by the government to parliament next year, adding that the amount of loans remain lower than the required fiscal sustainability level of 60 per cent.

She said the PDMO will start securing loans in the 2014 budget year if the bill is passed.

Apart from the Bt2 trillion loans, the PDMO will need to seek additional lending for several other projects in the next seven years including Bt340 billion for water management. The government has already acquired Bt10 billion for that purpose.

She said the PDMO plans to issue bonds in international markets for the Bt340 billion expenditure.

Ms Chularat added that Thailand’s outstanding public debt as of October this year was Bt4.82 trillion (about US$156 billion) or 43.27 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP). (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-12-28

Government asserts Bt2 trillion loans manageable

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, Dec 28 – The Thai government’s plan to seek Bt2 trillion loans will raise the country’s public debt to 49.9 per cent in 2016, a level which is manageable, according to the Finance Ministry.

Chularat Sutheethorn, director of the Public Debt Management Office (PDMO), said a bill on the Bt2 trillion loans for infrastructure investment will be proposed by the government to parliament next year, adding that the amount of loans remain lower than the required fiscal sustainability level of 60 per cent.

She said the PDMO will start securing loans in the 2014 budget year if the bill is passed.

Apart from the Bt2 trillion loans, the PDMO will need to seek additional lending for several other projects in the next seven years including Bt340 billion for water management. The government has already acquired Bt10 billion for that purpose.

She said the PDMO plans to issue bonds in international markets for the Bt340 billion expenditure.

Ms Chularat added that Thailand’s outstanding public debt as of October this year was Bt4.82 trillion (about US$156 billion) or 43.27 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP). (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-12-28

Does this include the 1.4 trillion baht that the government swept under the BoT carpet?

It would be interesting to know what assumptions are made when claiming that this level of debt is manageable. I hope that one of them is not that "the world's smartest businessman" is PM.

They are going to need a bigger trough.

Government asserts Bt2 trillion loans manageable

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, Dec 28 – The Thai government’s plan to seek Bt2 trillion loans will raise the country’s public debt to 49.9 per cent in 2016, a level which is manageable, according to the Finance Ministry.

Chularat Sutheethorn, director of the Public Debt Management Office (PDMO), said a bill on the Bt2 trillion loans for infrastructure investment will be proposed by the government to parliament next year, adding that the amount of loans remain lower than the required fiscal sustainability level of 60 per cent.

She said the PDMO will start securing loans in the 2014 budget year if the bill is passed.

Apart from the Bt2 trillion loans, the PDMO will need to seek additional lending for several other projects in the next seven years including Bt340 billion for water management. The government has already acquired Bt10 billion for that purpose.

She said the PDMO plans to issue bonds in international markets for the Bt340 billion expenditure.

Ms Chularat added that Thailand’s outstanding public debt as of October this year was Bt4.82 trillion (about US$156 billion) or 43.27 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP). (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-12-28

Does this include the 1.4 trillion baht that the government swept under the BoT carpet?

That's the 1.4 tn baht question

'White-lie' time once again !

The new government cuts corporate-tax & lately income-tax, then proposes to resort to borrowing, to fund their continuing rice-scam & new car-rebates. This is before any serious infrastructure-spending (high-speed trains by 2015, expanding-Swampy or flood/irrigation-projects, for example ?) has taken-place.

But why worry ... it's only public money/debt, after all ? !

Yay for Red Economics Thaksinomics v.3.0 !

BANGKOK, Dec 28 – The Thai government’s plan to seek Bt2 trillion loans will raise the country’s public debt to 49.9 per cent in 2016, a level which is manageable, according to the Finance Ministry.

Manageable? by what criteria is it manageable ?

Tax rates cut rebates for vehicle purchases a money pit for the rice scam scheme, All that is happening is that the debt mountain ii steadily increasing and who is going to have to foot the bill ?

,Mr.and Mrs. Somchai will have to pay the bill as will their children .The current maladministration is creating a debt bondage society for the future generations of the Thai people which will last for many years to come.

Meanwhile the ''commission'' agents who get a rake of on every deal will be living in luxury abroad just as the puppet master does now in Dubai.

So very easy to spend other peoples monies.

Edited December 28, 201213 yr by siampolee

Well, there's 'good debt' and there is 'bad debt'.

Good debt is when you borrow money to make infrastructure improvements, like faster trains, better highways, BTS & Subway extensions, etc.

Bad debt is when you borrow money to invest in the rice futures market - with potential losses in the hundreds of billions of baht.

UK public debt as percent of GDP 85% ?

Thailand 49.9%

They are going to need a bigger trough.

And deeper pockets.

Just to be correct. The FIDF debt the BoT had been handed begin of this year was 1.14 trillion only, not 1.4

http://www.thaivisa....th-fidf-decree/

So only 1,140,000,000,000 Baht and not 1,400,000,000,000 Baht. Numbers seem so much bigger when you use all the zeros.

It would be interesting to know what assumptions are made when claiming that this level of debt is manageable. I hope that one of them is not that "the world's smartest businessman" is PM.

]

Do you know anything about Thailand's recent economic history, or is this just an opportunity for you to take a cheap shot at the PM?

Are you denying that democrat PM Leekpai did not leave the country in an economic mess? It was PM Thaksin that put the country on the path to economic recovery in 2001. In a few short years, The Thaksin government had chopped the debt to GDP ratio down to its recent historic level. It was under the democrat Abhisit administration that finance minister Korn started to increase the debt to GDP ratio significantly.

BANGKOK, Dec 28 – The Thai government’s plan to seek Bt2 trillion loans will raise the country’s public debt to 49.9 per cent in 2016, a level which is manageable, according to the Finance Ministry.

Manageable? by what criteria is it manageable ?

Tax rates cut rebates for vehicle purchases a money pit for the rice scam scheme, All that is happening is that the debt mountain ii steadily increasing and who is going to have to foot the bill ?

,Mr.and Mrs. Somchai will have to pay the bill as will their children .The current maladministration is creating a debt bondage society for the future generations of the Thai people which will last for many years to come.

Meanwhile the ''commission'' agents who get a rake of on every deal will be living in luxury abroad just as the puppet master does now in Dubai.

So very easy to spend other peoples monies.

Is that so? By your logic then, the Abhisit administration must have been the poster boy for out of control corruption as the debt to GP ratio soared to 44.9% under the dynamic duo of Abhisit and Korn.

Using your logic, you should instead be singing the praises of the PM and "your man in Dubai" since the ratio is 43.27%.

After all, the comparative decrease after a year of government must mean a Herculean accomplishment , at least that is what your logic states.

Congratulations for your endorsement of the government, even though it was not your intent.

Here's a tip for you to consider for the next time you want to take a cheap shot: Check your facts first.

So only 1,140,000,000,000 Baht and not 1,400,000,000,000 Baht. Numbers seem so much bigger when you use all the zeros.

That is a lot of zero's to be sure . . . and it's only getting bigger . . .

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Absolutely nothing - if you believe it.

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Absolutely nothing - if you believe it.

The Dutch might be fudging a bit but I believe Standard and Poors and Moodys. Do you have a better source?

Edited December 28, 201213 yr by chiangmaikelly

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Absolutely nothing - if you believe it.

The Dutch might be fudging a bit but I believe Standard and Poors and Moodys. Do you have a better source?

My source is my brain and the BOT under-the-carpet amount shown in earlier posts.

I don't believe any of the credit agencies since they got the credit swaps disaster so wrong in 2008.

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Absolutely nothing - if you believe it.

The Dutch might be fudging a bit but I believe Standard and Poors and Moodys. Do you have a better source?

My source is my brain and the BOT under-the-carpet amount shown in earlier posts.

I don't believe any of the credit agencies since they got the credit swaps disaster so wrong in 2008.

Every country and bank in the world believes the credit rating agencies. Your statement takes you off into the realm of crankdom. Sorry but if anyone believed you the world financial system would collapse in a moment. No more replies from me to you because I don't accept you as a financial authority above the economists at Standard and Poors and Moodys and every country in the world.

Edited December 28, 201213 yr by chiangmaikelly

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Absolutely nothing - if you believe it.

The Dutch might be fudging a bit but I believe Standard and Poors and Moodys. Do you have a better source?

The UK even with over 80 per cent government debt is one of just three of the world's top economies to still have it's Triple A credit rating with all three major ratings agencies. The current debt figure isn't the only factor taken into account but also the perceived direction a nation's economy is being taken.

Edited December 28, 201213 yr by bigbamboo

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Read again, I didn't say anything wrong with the quoted public debt of 43% now, or the 49% by 2016. I was just rectifying what gKid wrote in #13 (Are you denying that democrat PM Leekpai did not leave the country in an economic mess? It was PM Thaksin that put the country on the path to economic recovery in 2001. In a few short years, The Thaksin government had chopped the debt to GDP ratio down to its recent historic level. It was under the democrat Abhisit administration that finance minister Korn started to increase the debt to GDP ratio significantly.)

Now that you did ask this quoestion, you should keep in mind that debt to GDP ratio should not be seen as an absolute, stand-alone figure. It should be regarding in combination of at least the countries sovereign rating. A combination will give an indication as to costs of borrowing (like interest rate charged). From S&P, December 2012 figures it seems.

country Local Currency rating Foreign Curr. rating T&C assessment
Netherlands AAA AAA AAA
Thailand	 A- BBB+ A

Edited December 28, 201213 yr by rubl

Manageable by who exactly? Its easy to spend and manage other peoples money.

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Read again, I didn't say anything wrong with the quoted public debt of 43% now, or the 49% by 2016. I was just rectifying what gKid wrote in #13 (Are you denying that democrat PM Leekpai did not leave the country in an economic mess? It was PM Thaksin that put the country on the path to economic recovery in 2001. In a few short years, The Thaksin government had chopped the debt to GDP ratio down to its recent historic level. It was under the democrat Abhisit administration that finance minister Korn started to increase the debt to GDP ratio significantly.)

Now that you did ask this quoestion, you should keep in mind that debt to GDP ratio should not be seen as an absolute, stand-alone figure. It should be regarding in combination of at least the countries sovereign rating. A combination will give an indication as to costs of borrowing (like interest rate charged)

country Local Currency rating Foreign Curr. rating T&C assessment
Netherlands AAA AAA AAA
Thailand	 A- BBB+ A

I agree but the subject of this thread is only public debt.

Lets see if I have this right. "debt as of October this year was Bt4.82 trillion (about US$156 billion) or 43.27 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP)." Now the PTP"... government’s plan to seek Bt2 trillion loans will raise the country’s public debt to 49.9". So that is a 40% increase in debt but only equates to 12% per cent of GDP. Now thats what I call creative arithmetic.

Edited December 28, 201213 yr by waza

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Read again, I didn't say anything wrong with the quoted public debt of 43% now, or the 49% by 2016. I was just rectifying what gKid wrote in #13 (Are you denying that democrat PM Leekpai did not leave the country in an economic mess? It was PM Thaksin that put the country on the path to economic recovery in 2001. In a few short years, The Thaksin government had chopped the debt to GDP ratio down to its recent historic level. It was under the democrat Abhisit administration that finance minister Korn started to increase the debt to GDP ratio significantly.)

Now that you did ask this quoestion, you should keep in mind that debt to GDP ratio should not be seen as an absolute, stand-alone figure. It should be regarding in combination of at least the countries sovereign rating. A combination will give an indication as to costs of borrowing (like interest rate charged)

country Local Currency rating Foreign Curr. rating T&C assessment
Netherlands AAA AAA AAA
Thailand	 A- BBB+ A

I agree but the subject of this thread is only public debt.

Tell gKid who started with an incorrect historical overview of Thai debt to GDP ratio and who influenced it.

ADD: the effect of public debt level cannot be judged correctly without also judging / correllating the debt/GDP ratio and country sovereign rating. IMHO.

Edited December 28, 201213 yr by rubl

Lets see if I have this right. "debt as of October this year was Bt4.82 trillion (about US$156 billion) or 43.27 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP)." Now the PTP"... government’s plan to seek Bt2 trillion loans will raise the country’s public debt to 49.9". So that is a 40% increase in debt but only equates to 12% per cent of GDP. Now thats what I call creative arithmetic.

What numbers are you using for GDP in 2016?

Actually it was Gen Chavalit who led Thailand into the 1997 crisis. K. Chuan tried to cleanup, but his austerity measures were not really popular. K. Thaksin had the luck of a booming World Economy, but unclear how long his populism could have lasted without causing problems.

As for Debt to GDP ration, here some nice graphs:

http://www.tradingec...ent-debt-to-gdp

So what's wrong with 49% government debt? It is a lot less than those spendthrift nations like the Netherlands at 65%

Read again, I didn't say anything wrong with the quoted public debt of 43% now, or the 49% by 2016. I was just rectifying what gKid wrote in #13 (Are you denying that democrat PM Leekpai did not leave the country in an economic mess? It was PM Thaksin that put the country on the path to economic recovery in 2001. In a few short years, The Thaksin government had chopped the debt to GDP ratio down to its recent historic level. It was under the democrat Abhisit administration that finance minister Korn started to increase the debt to GDP ratio significantly.)

Now that you did ask this quoestion, you should keep in mind that debt to GDP ratio should not be seen as an absolute, stand-alone figure. It should be regarding in combination of at least the countries sovereign rating. A combination will give an indication as to costs of borrowing (like interest rate charged)

country Local Currency rating Foreign Curr. rating T&C assessment
Netherlands AAA AAA AAA
Thailand     A- BBB+ A

I agree but the subject of this thread is only public debt.

Aren't these ratings pertaining to public debt only? Corporate or personal debt is a completely separate issue.

Just to be correct. The FIDF debt the BoT had been handed begin of this year was 1.14 trillion only, not 1.4

http://www.thaivisa....th-fidf-decree/

Maybe it grew