Building A New Desktop System

[MikeWill]

More on RAM (quote from http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/24/nav...gle/page15.html )

With new programs pushing memory requirements to fresh heights, there has never been a better time to maximize your RAM.

RAM is normally rated at its highest tested stable speed, first by the chip manufacturer in cycle time (measured in nanoseconds, abbreviated ns), then by the module producer in frequency (megahertz, or MHz). Because of the inverse relationship between cycle time and frequency, knowing the rated frequency for a single chip is as easy as inverting cycle time and moving the decimal place. For example, 200 MHz SDRAM would be equivalent to 5 ns, because 5 ns equals 0.005 microseconds, and 1 divided by 0.005 equals 200.

By design, DRAM maintains its data only as long as a charge is applied to the cells, so there is no maximum cycle time. For example, 133 MHz SDRAM could operate at 133 MHz, 100 MHz, 66 MHz, or even at speeds of less than 1 MHz, depending on how quickly the system accesses it. This allows a wide range of compatibility for higher speed modules in older systems; it is common practice for manufacturers to re-label faster RAM at slower speeds whenever the slower RAM ceases production. (This explains the popularity of "PC100" modules that use 7 ns chips.)

Double Data Rate (DDR) technology allows data to be transmitted twice per clock cycle, so DDR SDRAM with a 200 MHz clock rate actually has a 400 MHz data rate, and is referred to as DDR400. The naming convention for finished modules has become its bandwidth, with each module providing 64 data connections for 8 bytes of data per transfer. A 400 MHz data rate multiplied by 8 bytes per transfer provides 3,200 MB/s bandwidth, hence the name PC3200.

A small chip on each module, called a Serial Presence Detect (SPD) chip, stores information about the rated speed and appropriate timing settings for the module; this data is sometimes referred to collectively as a set of SPD values. The chip is read by the motherboard BIOS at boot time to assure the proper automatic configuration settings are used. Faster RAM is always compatible with slower speeds, but some motherboard BIOS limitations may not allow this RAM to be properly configured due to unrecognized SPD values.

Edited March 25, 2006 by Condo_bk

[MikeWill]

they just forget to say that with 2gb of ram you don't need exchange file anymore, the system is running on memory and doing so run faster!

you don't loose the pagefile.sys, but it remains at the same size than your ram and never move, neither fragment!

francois

That sounds like a bug in Windows,

or at least, lack of foresight.

On second thoughts, it is probably a limitation of their 32bit OS............

Would you please clarify your thoughts.

This is what I've found as clarifications to the above:

Pagefile fragmentation and the resources that the PC uses if it needs to expand the pagefile.

After building up the system, set it to use NO pagefile, then reboot. This will clear out the disk space that the pagefile uses (you can see it if you analyze using Defrag). When it comes back up, set the pagefile to exactly what is wanted (see below). This ensures that the pagefile is contiguous and situated optimally (not split between 2 or more places on the drive as you can often see using defrag).

It is recommended setting the pagefile to a single size (min and max set to the same value). This way, you don't get a performance slow down from Windows automatically resizing the pagefile. It also prevents pagefile fragmentation in conjunction with the step above. As for size, usually set it to twice the physical RAM. At this setting, running out of virtual memory shouldn't be an issue. If you find you are, or you add more RAM, you can always set the pagefile to 0, run degfrag, then reset your pagefile to a higher value.

[MikeWill]

The farther we go, the more we learn...

Microsoft confirmes that for Windows' VISTA ECC RAM will be needed to increase the stability of the OS.

ECC stands for Error Checking and Correction. An ECC module has an additional memory chip per memory bank that is responsible for detecting and correcting 1-bit data errors as data passes through the memory module.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/06/ecc_for_vista/

Microsoft confirmed that it has found out that a lot of "breakage" in Windows is caused by memory and that "the problem with memory has to be resolved before Vista ships."

This "breakage" apparently is caused by sub-quality memory that does not meet general specifications and can crash software. "Memory touches virtually anything in a computer and therefore has a lot of impact," Enderle said. "If memory is the problem and ECC can fix it, then it is a no-brainer to move towards ECC."

ECC technology is very rare in desktop and notebook computers as the technology commands a higher price than their standard counterpart: For example, 1 GB ECC DDR-333 are priced 56% higher than non-ECC devices ($97 and $62, respectively), according to Pricewatch.com. The difference for 2 GB DDR-400 modules is 79%. In the DDR2 space, the premium climbs to more than 90% in most segments. ECC also has an impact on system performance as especially the ECC's RAM check consumes significant time when booting a computer. Overall, ECC memory is generally believed to be about 1% to 3% slower than memory modules without the extra circuitry.

The simple fact that Microsoft recommends ECC for Vista will increase demand for ECC memory. However, according to Enderle, memory manufacturers do not take Microsoft's shift towards ECC serious enough at this time to take the necessary steps for a production increase. "This could result in a big mess," Enderle said. "Microsoft is soft-paddling the issue, but should have started six months ago to inform its partners. Manufacturers could meet ECC demand, if they started to prepare their production now. I am just not sure, if they do that."

While it is too early to forecast what will happen during the next months, it is very likely that consumer will pay an extra $30 to $50 to have their systems equipped with ECC memory - and likely even more if production does not meet demand. "A shortage in ECC will cause a spike in price when Vista launches," Enderle said. Users who plan to upgrade to Vista therefore should also dedicate some extra budget to a memory upgrade.

If Microsoft's concern is especially sub-quality memory than, at least in theory, higher quality memory from manufacturers such as Corsair, Crucial or OCZ could be another option and a potentially cheaper memory solution than ECC. Burk was not able to confirm, if higher-quality memory will have the same effect as ECC. "We are still running tests and we are not recommending any technology or vendor over the other," he said.

Edited March 25, 2006 by Condo_bk

[Tywais]

If Microsoft's concern is especially sub-quality memory than, at least in theory, higher quality memory from manufacturers such as Corsair, Crucial or OCZ could be another option and a potentially cheaper memory solution than ECC. Burk was not able to confirm, if higher-quality memory will have the same effect as ECC. "We are still running tests and we are not recommending any technology or vendor over the other," he said.

Sounds a little odd to me, wonder if Micro$oft is hooking up with some memory manufacturers? If non-ECC memory was a big problem it would also show up in application crashes on current platforms, OSes and especially drivers. If they are referring to 64-bit platforms, maybe. Sorry, I don't buy it.

Edited March 26, 2006 by tywais

[MikeWill]

Does someone knows the meaning of "lifetime warranty" for RAM in Thailand.

Any experiences with dealing/exchanging the Ram?

Edited March 27, 2006 by Condo_bk

[drake]

Hi Condo,

RAM Lifetime Garantie: bring the defect Ram back to Pantip, it will be replaced for free after years (Kingstone). I’m trying already.

Be sure the memory have a defect, a good memory test u can find on a Linux install CD.

VISTA: u needs no ECC- memories or other components as Win-XP, except u can improve the VGA with more Memory (e.g. 256MB). Vista uses the VGA memory for additional functions.

Cu drake

[francois]

Does someone knows the meaning of "lifetime warranty" for RAM in Thailand.

Any experiences with dealing/exchanging the Ram?

hi'

keep the small boxes of you ram sticks, life time means it!

in 20 years if your ram is defective any brand will exchange it to you, except that in 20 years it won't be ram anymore may be some nano stuff

don't worry about ram, buy it, if it doesn't work bring it back it will be exchanged

francois

ps: a faulty ram is pretty rare but still saw some ...

Edited March 28, 2006 by francois

[MikeWill]

Re: MEMORY DDR 400 / PC3200 Dual Channel Kit

To keep the upgrade possibilities to the maximum RAM capacity (i.e. 4 GB), I've decided to go for 2 GB for now (a pair of 2 sticks of 1 GB each). Most probably it would be GEIL Value Series at THB 7,100.-

[MikeWill]

Another big step in the process...

Today I went to Pantip and bought the remaining parts:

- AMD Athlon X2 3800+ (~13,400)

- ASUS A8N-SLi Premium (~6,900)

- CORSAIR 2 GB TwinX Matched Memory Pair, XMS3200, 400 MHz, CL2 (~9,600)

- THERMALTAKE 120mm rear/exhaust FAN for the case (~300)

To complete the purchase, which was made all in one shop, I also bought a Kingston USB Flash Drive 1 GB Hi-Speed 2.0 (~1,800)

After a small bargain, the whole package costs me THB 32,000.

So, the total cost is now stands at 18,540 (Case, PSU, HDD, and VGA) + 32,000 (CPU, MoBo, RAM, Fan, and Flash Drive) = THB 50,540.

Aside note:

I have found out that PC Gallery (pcgallery.co.th) is not a trustworthy establishment, at least in my experience. Be warned.

This warning should probably be added to the Pinned Topic: "On-line Computer/electronic Stores".

And since this topic is closed, the implementation is up to the Admin/Moderators.

On the other hand, my experience with Thanni (thanni.com) was very pleasant.

Edited March 30, 2006 by Condo_bk

[mouse]

And to make that baby scream go to this location read and then buy one of these cards, populate it with 4GB and you will never look back. I am in the process of getting one at the moment through a friend in Japan.

The 4GB cards are available in Thailand but the 8GB version, with much faster flow is only available in Taiwan and Japan at the moment.

[MarkBKK]

And to make that baby scream go to this location read and then buy one of these cards, populate it with 4GB and you will never look back. I am in the process of getting one at the moment through a friend in Japan.

The 4GB cards are available in Thailand but the 8GB version, with much faster flow is only available in Taiwan and Japan at the moment.

I wonder if they'll catch on this time around ...

[poorfarang]

I need to head to pantip to get my remaining parts.

Ram - Maybe I will also get what you purchased condo

Video Card - Need some advice again please

Hard Drive - 250 gig, not sure yet

Power Supply - Something black

[drake]

Be careful, with some Mobo’s u can’t use two pair (4 GB) of Corsair (2x 1GB), with Kingstone (2x 1GB) possible. Check Manual.

If u not a big gamer, I’ll recommend the VGA GF6800XT, 256 or 512 MB Memory.

(good Price-Performance relation).

Power supply: my recommendation: Enermax EG465P-VE.

[Firefoxx]

Well, I wasn't really planning this, since I didn't really need it, but certain circumstances made it neccessary, and I've gotten a new computer. Here are the things I got, and the rationale behind the choices:

CPU: Pentium D 2.8, 8900. I like my old hyperthreading CPU a lot, and I like the multitasking it does, so dual-core is a no-brainer. This CPU is the cheapest (unless you go for a slower bus) from both the Intel and AMD camps. It overclocks easily to 3.6+Ghz with the stock cooler. I actually wanted to wait for the "core" CPUs (cooler, faster Intels), but it will probably be at least a few months before we can actually buy them here. The stock cooler, when driven to its max speed, is VERY loud, so I might need to change that.

RAM: Corsair DDR2 VS 1GB x2 sticks, 3800 each. I was actually going to get Rambo, which was 800 baht cheaper per stick, but the line at the shop was long so I went to another shop and got the Corsair.

Mainboard: Asus P5WD2 Premium, 7500. Intel 955x chipset. Has RAID and firewire, two things which are required for me. Also not that expensive. MSI and Gigabyte are much cheaper, but somehow I want to stick to Asus boards.

VGA: Powercolor ATI X1600 256MB, 6000. I wanted a current-gen ATI card which wasn't too expensive. I couldn't find a sparkle, which was my first choice, so I got this.

Case: Thermaltake Armor Silver, 6700. I needed lots of actively cooled hardisk bays and an aluminum case. This one fits the bill, but has an annoying front cover (but nearly all have some sort of annoying front cover) which gets in the way of optical drives. Very light, very good cooling, good workmanship, tooless, very quiet fans.

PSU: Enermax 465, 2900. There are two versions, an older one (2300) and this one, which has an extra fan, fan control, and longer warranty.

I got all these at IT Mall. Everything else I already have.

Edited April 3, 2006 by Firefoxx

[MikeWill]

Congratulations Firefoxx.

Even if you wasn't really planning it, the system sounds very nice for the price (~THB 40,000).

I'm not exactly clear tho' on the price of RAM (Corsair DDR2). Is it 512 MB x 2 sticks = 1 GB at THB 7,600.- ?

Have you assembled it already?

How many hard disks do you plan to utilize and how?

Aside note:

Can someone recomment an experienced technician (preferably English speaking) that would be ready to assemble my PC on site (at my home/office) in Bangkok, Sathorn - Rama IV area.

Edited April 4, 2006 by Condo_bk

[Firefoxx]

The price of the ram was 3,800 for 1 stick of 1GB, or 2 sticks for 7,600.

I assembled it already, it works well. I have 7 harddisks total to stick in it, and there are just enough available mounts to fit all 7. There are 11 front 5.25" drive bays, 1 which is used by the power switch. There are harddisk mount modules which take up 3 bays, and fit 3 harddisks with 1 120mm fan, and only 1 is included (can buy more for 500+ baht). There are also 3 more cooled harddisk mounts next to the PSU at the back.

I would have been happy to assemble your PC for free (it's a hobby), but sadly I'm going to be out of the country for a quite a while.

[MikeWill]

Thanks for the offer Firefoxx.

Maybe after your return, we could get together and have some beer or whatever.

BTW, 7,600 baht for 2 GB of DDR2 Corsair RAM is very cheap.

[Firefoxx]

It's the Corsair VS RAM, which is the Value Series... in other words, the cheap type. Nothing special, but it's got BGA-package chips, so it looks a bit different from most surface-mount chips.

[poorfarang]

Im going to Pantip in a few hours.

Where should I go to buy some ram?

And my budget 5,000 baht video card, where should I go to look?

Hopefully I will also be able to pick up a PSU and HD at this place as well. I hate wandering around pantip for hours and hours

[Dario]

These are the specs of my new computer I had assembled in December:

Mainboard: ASUS A8N-SLI Premium 939

Power Supply: Enermax 600W

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3800+

with Zalman cooler CNPS 9500 blue

RAM: 2 x 1024 MB MDT PC3200/400

Graphics card: NPY Verto 7800GTX 256MB

with Arctic cooling Silencer NV 5

Storage: 2 x 250GB Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM S-ATA

DVD Writer: Liteon 1635S16X Double Layer

DVD-ROM: Asus combo CB-5216A+

19" Fujitsu-Siemens Scaleoview C19-4 800:1 and 8ms

I use this machine mainly for Microsoft Flight Simulator. I bought the processor and the graphics card (was slightly used) from Ebay USA. The rest I bought almost exclusively on Ebay Germany, except the two DVD drives and the power supply and that one cost me a little fortune! (I think I paid 7,500 Baht!) I wanted a 550W, but there was none available on Dec 28, as all shops at Zeer Rangsit wanted to clear their stocks.

The Arctic-cooling fan I bought straight in HongKong as their retailers in Thailand had none available.

By the way: buying on Ebay USA is quite safe using PayPal as payment method. I received both the graphics card and the processor within 4 days after purchase.