23-Year-Old Briton Shot Dead At Countdown Party On Haad Rin Beach: Koh Phangan

[samuibeachcomber]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

And they resent many of us, as we not only have some cash, but we also have the most beautiful women, who want little to do with them.

Are you kidding? Most foreign men take the women that Thai men don't want. Often dark-skinned with kids and over 30!

are you kidding/we love 'em dark skinned.are you saying the kids are over 30?

[randall]

Passport pic of the poor bloke in the Bangkok Post.

RAZZ

Yes I just see this nothing like give away all the detail of someone passport DOB where there where born and passport number this should not be aloud to be put on there

[Pormax]

Maybe not a Thai who fired the shot, I wasn't there.

But I have learnt over the years that when young Thai men and alcohol get together, keep away.

Many of them go to a party armed.

Very sad for the young man's family.

[sbk]

It appears that the Thaivisa members appetite for jumping to conclusions is alive and well on this first day of 2013.

.

Indeed, since it appears from mutliple reports the poor guy was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and it had nothing to do with him being involved in a fight with Thais, or with him going for someone's girlfriend

The 22-year-old was killed as he danced with friends at a beach bar on the popular island of Koh Phangan.

He is thought to have been caught in the crossfire when a fight erupted between two local gangs.

Witnesses said that two groups of Thai youths got into an argument which escalated into a fist-fight at around 4am. As one of the groups ran from the bar, one man turned and fired a shot back inside.

http://www.telegraph...n-Thailand.html

Its a terrible loss for his friends and family, so lets do try to remember that when posting.

[RAZZELL]

Who have only probably just found out.

RAZZ

[Mungo85]

Passport pic of the poor bloke in the Bangkok Post.

RAZZ

Yes I just see this nothing like give away all the detail of someone passport DOB where there where born and passport number this should not be aloud to be put on there

At least they didn't have a pixelated photo of him dead like they normally do (probably in a later edition). The police & media here should take a long hard look at themselves when they release/publish this info.

[bankha]

In the Uk it has just got on the news and saying it happened due to two local thai gangs fighting and shooting at each other and this poor person RIP was in the way.

RIP

[wotaplonker]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

dont under any circumstances if you are a tourist have any exchange with a thai man

[spidermike007]

Probably because a lot of Western men jump into bed with the first girls that give them attention. The trend is changing. You see a lot more Western guys with girls that Thai typically men go for these days.

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

And they resent many of us, as we not only have some cash, but we also have the most beautiful women, who want little to do with them.

Are you kidding? Most foreign men take the women that Thai men don't want. Often dark-skinned with kids and over 30!

Total BS. I see foreigners daily that are with women these thai youths would kill for.

[spidermike007]

Some 10,000 tourists visit that beach during the moon parties, (used to be full moon, but then it was black moon and maybe now the moon is no longer important). There will always be the odd incident when that many essentially drunken party goers get together. It is surprising amazing that not more incidents occur.

The parties bring several million dollars onto the island every month.

This income stream will never be stopped.

But only because of the legality of drugs.

"legality of drugs." ??? availability of drugs

Yes, the useless phangan police lay in wait, and bust tourists for one joint. They pay the cops 100,000 baht or go to jail. That's thai law enforcement for you.

[Arkady]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

Sound advice to be sure. However we don't yet know what the argument was about, if indeed one really took place. Perhaps the young Brit had no choice. He might have been protecting his girlfriend from getting raped like the other young Brit who got stabbed many times in Krabi or was trying to retrieve his wallet stolen by young punks and had other means of subsistence. Possibly the poor guy was just very drunk and got provoked by someone for a trivial reason and overreacted, unaware that many young Thais carry guns they are willing to use at the drop of a hat. I hope this does get good mileage in the British media to warn young tourists what a dangerous place Thailand is and particularly Haad Rin. RIP.

[tombkk]

Some off-topic and some anti-Thai posts have been removed from sight.

Keep it civil, people.

[keiser]

in the last 10 yrs you have seen a lot of young brits who used to go to spain greece ibiza etc and behaving like total <deleted> now flooding thailand and carrying on their drunkeness ...haad rin is a toilet and attracts all kinds the FMP should have been stopped 10 yrs ago what with a spate of rapes on western women, the drugs, the out of control corruption that goes on, young thai mafia types. it was a beautiful island 10 yrs ago...now its destroyed and fast becoming the next ko samui which is what they all wanted...RIP KPG

[Baerboxer]

You have just shown with your comments how little you know. Your massive generalisations hold no water. I presume you have been here for less than a year.

Hear, hear .. we should know how to keep our heads down, it's not our country, we should show more respect, we should not argue with a Thai cos they could just kick us like a dog or shoot us dead anytime they feel like .. cos they know we are faranag and have no xxxxxxx rights here, every cop will try to cover up for fellow Thai .. so let's be quiet, learn the ropes and digest more shit or go back to "our country"

Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean that you have to flame them. Why is it that my "massive generalisations hold no water"? If you think differently perhaps try to substantiate instead of offering empty talk. And your presumption is also completely wrong. I've been visiting here since 1981, living and doing business in Thailand for 7 years. I've been thorough a lot here including assaults, many counts of theft, court cases, extortion, betrayals, life threats .. all things that didn't happened to me in my "previous life" of 24 years in another "adopted country". I'm claiming here that Thai xenophobia and a system under which foreigners have little rights contribute towards many instances of violence against them. It makes it just too easy to pull a knife or gun on a foreigner. It results in tragic cases like the one above and it often goes unpunished. And we, foreigners, are partly to blame by mostly sticking head in the sand and accepting this situation in the name of politically correct "respect for other culture". If the African Americans thought and behaved like that they would still be doing cotton fields today including Mr. Obama. "As long as I'm still alive I don't care for some young Brit. It was probably his own fault he got shot dead". But Sir, it may be YOU next time.

Nice to see you read the latest news and updates before putting forward silly and insensitive comments. The news reports indicate he was hit by a stray bullet fired during a dispute between rival Thai gangs. And, you think "it was probably his own fault he got shot dead". Well done Sherlock!

[Baerboxer]

in the last 10 yrs you have seen a lot of young brits who used to go to spain greece ibiza etc and behaving like total <deleted> now flooding thailand and carrying on their drunkeness ...haad rin is a toilet and attracts all kinds the FMP should have been stopped 10 yrs ago what with a spate of rapes on western women, the drugs, the out of control corruption that goes on, young thai mafia types. it was a beautiful island 10 yrs ago...now its destroyed and fast becoming the next ko samui which is what they all wanted...RIP KPG

There is nothing to suggest the poor victim was anything other than an innocent bystander hit by a stray bullet.

Over the last 30 years I've seen drunken louts from many countries behaving appallingly - not confined to any nationallity. But, that is not relevant here.

[Estrada]

this may be the reference RIP. best to know the laws of the land

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount # 1 South Africa: 31,918

# 2 Colombia: 21,898

# 3 Thailand: 20,032

# 4 United States: 9,369

# 5 Philippines: 7,708

# 6 Mexico: 2,606

# 7 Slovakia: 2,356

# 8 El Salvador: 1,441

# 9 Zimbabwe: 598

# 10 Peru: 442

from 2002 I believe .........

according to gunpolicy.org, there were just 3,654 total homicides (gun + other) in Thailand in 2010:

2010: 3,654⁶

No idea which stats are right / wrong mind .............

One counts homicide, the other include the southern conflict.

And deaths due to the Southern Conflict are not murder!?

[Arkady]

The Bkk Post is suggesting that the deceased wasn't involved in any altercation but was just a bystander when a fight broke out between to groups of Thais. Police claim to have arrested a shooter with the home made gun still in his possession.

[robertthebruce]

Sky News..

It has just been on SKY NEWS IN THE UK..

5pm G.M.T.

R.I.P.

[A Member]

My Thai neighbours have said many times that the country is awash with guns especially amongst youngsters as can be seen in the battles between technical school students. Let's not forget the 2,000 plus dead when Thaksin cracked down on drugs and all the dealers were "killing each other", well that was the official line anyway

"Head down" is the best advice anyone can give or receive, especially when "face" is involved and that can arise so easily

[Scottish Gary]

As awful as this news is it comes as no surprise. Haad Rin is a very dangerous place and the numerous crimes go on there are generally unreported by the media as not to stop the tourist baht. I'm actually surprised that this hasn't happened before. Drunk Thai youth cracking onto someones girlfriend no doubt and not being able to take the rejection. That place is a complete dump and all the police care about is framing tourists with drugs. Amazing Thailand indeed.

. Drunk Thai youth cracking onto someones girlfriend no doubt and not being able to take the rejection.

I take it you read the story and then chose to add your own bit in about a drunk Thai youth cracking on to someones girlfriend.

In reality there was a gun fight between two groups of Thai's and the Brit tragically caught a stray bullet. Nothing to do with girlfriend rejection but hey ho why let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Scottish Gary

[Popscene]

British press reporting it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255671/Stephen-Ashton-British-tourist-22-shot-dead-crossfire-Thai-New-Years-Eve-beach-party.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=socialnet-twitter-mailonline

[crazydrummerpauly]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

according to this tally its twice the amount of deaths so considering Thailand has 1/6th the population then its what 12 times higher rate of gun homicide.

Seems quite high but maybe thats what he was referencing.

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Funny, the wikipedia link (crime+firearms by country) doesn't list Thailand at all...

can someone say COVERUP??

Usually at the top of any Wiki page there is a 'History' button. The last time i looked (this is always coming up), the Thailand figure had been hotly disputed and was removed as being unreliable.

[NeverSure]

True, but that is a state sponsored massacre (not unlike Israel on Palestine). But have you heard of a loneThai civilian mowing down a dozen or more innocent bystanders by automatic weapon and with no motive?

I've never heard of that happening in any first world country. I've heard a lot of it in third world countries like Mexico and S. America, the Middle East and so on, but I simply know of none in any first world country. I know of none in Asia. Automatic weapons are almost unheard of even in countries with permissive gun laws.

It is time to check our emotions. Killing by gun is emotionally much more horrifying that a scooter accident death, but both are actually equally tragic. We simply don't get as wound up about scooter deaths (although we find them terrible) as we do the fewer but more emotionally distressing deaths by guns.

10,000 people are on a beach, many loaded up on booze and drugs. It's party time. One of them tragically dies. Things turned out pretty good for the other 9,999 people who took the risk of being in that big party, even if they were pigging out on booze and drugs. We don't talk about the 9,999 who walked away with better luck despite their choice of locations and their behavior.

Personally I would have felt safer there than I would have driving a scooter on the streets of Chiang Mai during party time, but shootings are so sensational.

If you have 10,000 people who are willing to voluntarily walk into a place that is drug and booze city and when it's big time party time, then someone is likely to get hurt anywhere in the world. Considering that it is, IMHO crazy to even be there in the first place, I'm not surprised that someone died. Booze and drugs make some people crazy.

It is a terrible tragedy but do the math. Think with the brain and not the emotions. Go to a bad place at a bad time and have one chance in 10,000 of dying. Go to a better place in Thailand when it's not party time and have a much better chance of nothing bad happening.

RIP and condolences to everyone.

[Whidbeyboy]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

I think his facts are all up the <deleted>, but then who worries about accuracy anyway.....

Not trying to be a jerk, but with the ability to google it's a wonder that anyone even needs to ask if something is true when a quick search is a couple of key strokes away. So Murder rates (2008) were found to be 5.9 per 100,000 in Thailand and 5.22 per 100,000 in the US.

But compared to other countries is isn't half bad (of course it's all bad, just saying). Like central America where Honduras hold the record at 60 per 100,000.

So unless we think it has increased significatly in 5 years the rates are similar for Thailand and the US. That being said, there is something seemingly more sinister when a tourist gets shot in vacation in a place advertized as paradise. One isn;t surprised when someone is killed at home in a Detroit getto. That's just life there.

The bigger question for me is what justice is made after the act. We don;t cover up crime in the US and people usually get caught and go to jail or get death. We are only one of the few that still fry'em.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Whidbeyboy

[Whidbeyboy]

True, but that is a state sponsored massacre (not unlike Israel on Palestine). But have you heard of a loneThai civilian mowing down a dozen or more innocent bystanders by automatic weapon and with no motive?

I've never heard of that happening in any first world country. I've heard a lot of it in third world countries like Mexico and S. America, the Middle East and so on, but I simply know of none in any first world country. I know of none in Asia. Automatic weapons are almost unheard of even in countries with permissive gun laws.

It is time to check our emotions. Killing by gun is emotionally much more horrifying that a scooter accident death, but both are actually equally tragic. We simply don't get as wound up about scooter deaths (although we find them terrible) as we do the fewer but more emotionally distressing deaths by guns.

10,000 people are on a beach, many loaded up on booze and drugs. It's party time. One of them tragically dies. Things turned out pretty good for the other 9,999 people who took the risk of being in that big party, even if they were pigging out on booze and drugs. We don't talk about the 9,999 who walked away with better luck despite their choice of locations and their behavior.

Personally I would have felt safer there than I would have driving a scooter on the streets of Chiang Mai during party time, but shootings are so sensational.

If you have 10,000 people who are willing to voluntarily walk into a place that is drug and booze city and when it's big time party time, then someone is likely to get hurt anywhere in the world. Considering that it is, IMHO crazy to even be there in the first place, I'm not surprised that someone died. Booze and drugs make some people crazy.

It is a terrible tragedy but do the math. Think with the brain and not the emotions. Go to a bad place at a bad time and have one chance in 10,000 of dying. Go to a better place in Thailand when it's not party time and have a much better chance of nothing bad happening.

RIP and condolences to everyone.

Yes, but dying on a scooter and getting shot are NOT the same. Not at all and is a stupid analogy. One you know the risk and have control over your actions, the other is perpetuatedd on you by a jerk with a gun. People die of old age too, but does that equate with being killed? I have been to many parties where nobody wwas shot, so even having one shot is a BAD.

[NeverSure]

True, but that is a state sponsored massacre (not unlike Israel on Palestine). But have you heard of a loneThai civilian mowing down a dozen or more innocent bystanders by automatic weapon and with no motive?

I've never heard of that happening in any first world country. I've heard a lot of it in third world countries like Mexico and S. America, the Middle East and so on, but I simply know of none in any first world country. I know of none in Asia. Automatic weapons are almost unheard of even in countries with permissive gun laws.

It is time to check our emotions. Killing by gun is emotionally much more horrifying that a scooter accident death, but both are actually equally tragic. We simply don't get as wound up about scooter deaths (although we find them terrible) as we do the fewer but more emotionally distressing deaths by guns.

10,000 people are on a beach, many loaded up on booze and drugs. It's party time. One of them tragically dies. Things turned out pretty good for the other 9,999 people who took the risk of being in that big party, even if they were pigging out on booze and drugs. We don't talk about the 9,999 who walked away with better luck despite their choice of locations and their behavior.

Personally I would have felt safer there than I would have driving a scooter on the streets of Chiang Mai during party time, but shootings are so sensational.

If you have 10,000 people who are willing to voluntarily walk into a place that is drug and booze city and when it's big time party time, then someone is likely to get hurt anywhere in the world. Considering that it is, IMHO crazy to even be there in the first place, I'm not surprised that someone died. Booze and drugs make some people crazy.

It is a terrible tragedy but do the math. Think with the brain and not the emotions. Go to a bad place at a bad time and have one chance in 10,000 of dying. Go to a better place in Thailand when it's not party time and have a much better chance of nothing bad happening.

RIP and condolences to everyone.

Yes, but dying on a scooter and getting shot are NOT the same. Not at all and is a stupid analogy. One you know the risk and have control over your actions, the other is perpetuatedd on you by a jerk with a gun. People die of old age too, but does that equate with being killed? I have been to many parties where nobody wwas shot, so even having one shot is a BAD.

To me, if a drunk driver kills me while I'm riding a scooter, I find no difference than if a drunk with a gun shoots me while aiming at someone else.

If there is any difference, it is perception cause by an emotional fear of the gun. Vehicles, especially those driven by drunks, are more dangerous than guns if you want to look at per capita deaths.

Deaths by gun homicide - US - 3.7 per 100,000.

Deaths by vehicle accidents - US - 10.8 per 100,000.

Sorry, I couldn't quickly find the numbers for Thailand.

And no, I may have no control over either, other than choosing to not be there in the first place.

[Time Traveller]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

So it's ok to murder a foreign tourist ? How do you know he was arguing with anyone?

There's a Polish fella living opposite me that often annoys me with his loud music ,I think i'll go & stick him ,he doesn't know who he's <deleted> with.

It's not ok to murder anyone but I think it's pretty stupid for some tourist to come to someone else's country and think they own the place. There are a lot of dangerous people here and it's always best to be humble and keep a low profile. We do not know what really happened here but I'm pretty sure both the tourist and the youths both didn't want to walk away.

How could you possibly know what another person was thinking?

[RogueLeader]

Funny, the wikipedia link (crime+firearms by country) doesn't list Thailand at all...

That's why Wikipedia isn't a valid source. It can change completely several times a day.

[edwardandtubs]

The only facts we know are that a tourist was shot dead by a Thai gang member and the police think he was an innocent victim of violence between Thai gangs and yet the usual self-hating thaivisa idiots crawl out and blame the victim for his own death. Pathetic.

[JO1973]

Several people have noted that when in another country it's not good to make trouble with the locals. True, however, there is a difference with making trouble with the locals and defending yourself against aggression and/or outright abuse. We don't know the full details of the story but from the sounds of it, it seems that some Thais made problems with the young man, he responded, and then a Thai shot him.

So are we who visit LOS simply supposed to take abuse or is there a point at which we should stand up for ourselves and not accept assaults and illegal actions by locals? Could we say the same thing to Thais when they visit our countries? I don't think anyone would. In fact, I'm willing to bet that all of those who are quick to blame the young Brit here would be the first to say that Thais should respond to abuse when abroad.

The real issue here is why is it that Thais believe they have the right to assault foreigners. I think a big part of it is the idea perpetuated by the Thai government and media that foreigners are responsible for all bad things while Thais never do anything wrong. Thais are quick to point to the foreigners at Cowboy and Nana as proof that they only bring bad things to the country, but they are quick to change the subject when you point out that Thais not only work their but own the bars/clubs and that the government is the one that builds these 'entertainment' zones to attract foreigners in the first place.

When Thais assault a foreigner locals and police are predisposed to think that the foreigner was responsible, bad, and deserving of happened. No matter if they were mugged or shot down after defending themselves. It's like blaming the victim of a home invasion for having a home filled with nice things.

What Thailand needs is a healthy dose of bad publicity regarding these events which largely go unpublished outside of the country. Let the Land of Smiles lose some face and get a bad image. If Thais start to accept the fact that maybe -- just maybe -- lots of bad stuff does indeed originate here, it might change some things.