23-Year-Old Briton Shot Dead At Countdown Party On Haad Rin Beach: Koh Phangan

[evadgib]

Press reports from reputable outlets continue to use the word "famous" to describe Koh Phangan & the Full Moon party. If they did a bit of homework they'd realise "notorious" is far more accurrate.

"Glastonbury it aint!".

[barky]

I think it's time these incidents were more widely published. Thailand is a major tourist destination and almost no-one knows how dangerous it is. Perhaps if evidence was discovered that points to a cover-up by Thai authorities, the resultant lawsuits against foreign representatives of Thai tourism companies would change their minds.

Of course the Thai government don't want the news to get out (it's bad for business) that the fact is (comparatively speaking) Thailand is an extremely dangerous place for westerners. Western goverments don't advise their citizens of the dangers in Thailand because they (embassy staff and ambassadors etc) spend most of their time ingratiating themselves to their friends in the Thai goverment and it's departments.

[maccaroni man]

You have just shown with your comments how little you know. Your massive generalisations hold no water. I presume you have been here for less than a year.

Hear, hear .. we should know how to keep our heads down, it's not our country, we should show more respect, we should not argue with a Thai cos they could just kick us like a dog or shoot us dead anytime they feel like .. cos they know we are faranag and have no xxxxxxx rights here, every cop will try to cover up for fellow Thai .. so let's be quiet, learn the ropes and digest more shit or go back to "our country"

I have been here 12 yrs and IMO he is spot on, keep head down mouth shut and expect nothing from the boys in brown in the way of help

[jayjayjayjay]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

is this true? i guess you're saying per head of population?just interested,have you got figures and source?

Sure, I have some 'stats' that will no doubt be debated. http://www.nationmas...icides-firearms which shows that Thailand is the clear number 1 when it comes to the percentage of murders by firearm, and this http://www.nationmas...per-100-000-pop which shows the homicide rate by firearm per capita. Here's the biggie http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

These stats are pretty much rubbish.. 54 deaths a day due to firearm murders.. Sorry but that is way out of context. Even the Thai Rath newspaper could not keep up with publishing all the pictures. It is likely Thailand submitted a report covering 10 years to the author of this article or something as simple and stupid as this. I do not for one moment think there are no firearm crimes, but the reality in not as published. One needs to have a yearly survey monitored under strict regulation with the reporting of how and when a particular crime is classified. I am 100% sure that this reference is way out of line.

[MAJIC]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

It seems that many people are suffered from " I am better than others syndrome" need to read sth to get realized. I can't post the link but you can google "total crimes by country" for the full list. Here are the top 5 countries in committing crimes

1. USA 11,877,218

2. UK 6,523,706

3. Germany 6,507,394

4. France 3,771,850

5. Rissia 2,592,370

Oh..I forgot Thailand

20. Thailand 565,108

Why can't you post the link?

[Banzai99]

Why isn't there a mass exodus of Farangs if it's that bad ?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[webfact]

UK cautions citizens after Koh Phangan killing: Thailand

Full story:

[Psych01]

Here is an article from the Telegraph about the family of this boy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/9775788/Thailand-shooting-how-could-my-sons-life-be-taken-so-recklessly.html

[SteeleJoe]

Why isn't there a mass exodus of Farangs if it's that bad ?

Especially with roaming gangs of Thais who hate Farangs hunting down and shooting them....

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[petedk]

I think it's time these incidents were more widely published. Thailand is a major tourist destination and almost no-one knows how dangerous it is. Perhaps if evidence was discovered that points to a cover-up by Thai authorities, the resultant lawsuits against foreign representatives of Thai tourism companies would change their minds.

Of course the Thai government don't want the news to get out (it's bad for business) that the fact is (comparatively speaking) Thailand is an extremely dangerous place for westerners. Western goverments don't advise their citizens of the dangers in Thailand because they (embassy staff and ambassadors etc) spend most of their time ingratiating themselves to their friends in the Thai goverment and it's departments.

Well it seems to occupy a lot of time on BBC World news. This surprises me really as there are so many other cases of crime against foreigners that never get mentioned but they seem to be interested in this particular one.

[petedk]

The UK Daily Telegraph is reporting that he shooter has been arrested and will be charged with manslaughter. As far as I am aware, that classification doesn't exist in Thailand. Or maybe, because the shooter hit the wrong person who just happened to be a foreigner, then the charge isn't so serious?

Anyway, from the same tome comes this picture.

The bar on the right is where the English lad was fatally shot and the one on the left is where the Israeli got stabbed to death a few years back.

Do you mean there is no such thing as manslaughter in Thailand? So it's either murder or nothing/

It's a strange country. A young girl kills 11 people in a car accident and gets probation. A taxi driver gets killed in crossfire and the ex-prime minister gets charged with murder. Maybe the British Prime Minister could be charged with murder for allowing the poor guy to come to Thailand.

Seriously though, I can't imagine the shooter can be charged with murder as there was probably no intent to kill the tourist. If the term manslaughter doesn't exist then he'll probably get down for possession of illegal firearms or something. maybe that's why he is smiling in the photo of his arrest.

[Psych01]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

It seems that many people are suffered from " I am better than others syndrome" need to read sth to get realized. I can't post the link but you can google "total crimes by country" for the full list. Here are the top 5 countries in committing crimes

1. USA 11,877,218

2. UK 6,523,706

3. Germany 6,507,394

4. France 3,771,850

5. Rissia 2,592,370

Oh..I forgot Thailand

20. Thailand 565,108

Why can't you post the link?

Here is a list of each country and the registered population http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population, also this is the global gun violence on Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence.

Lets not forget, in most of the western world, most if not all gun crime gets reported. Here in Thailand, who knows. ;-)

[ClaudeFeller]

Just my facts of 8 years living in Samui

2 Friends murdered 1 shot in the head street in Soi Reggae, his friend was shot 4 times in the chest but survived.

Witnessed with my own eyes A Thai shot in the head in Solo Bar

Was in Solo bar when a police security guy was shot dead

Thai on Thai murder in Fishermans village in front of all tourist.

Had a gun pointed at me and couple of friends by two drink immigration officers as we would not give them a drink after the bar was closed.

Was sat in a bar behind green mango (near GB) when a shoot out occured between 2 gangs and bullets hit the bar we were in.

Keep your head down as much as you like but it can be the wild west if you venture out down there.

Except for the Fisherman Village shooting - all related to Red Light districts. Same story can happen in every red light district worldwide.

[Tropicalevo]

Story now on front news page of BBC........http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20883483.

Story now on front news page of BBC........http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20883483.

OK, thanks. So you meant to say it is not an exclusively Thai thing (which of course it is't) not that it wasn't something Thais do.

Apologies - you said it better than I did.

[Psych01]

I think it's time these incidents were more widely published. Thailand is a major tourist destination and almost no-one knows how dangerous it is. Perhaps if evidence was discovered that points to a cover-up by Thai authorities, the resultant lawsuits against foreign representatives of Thai tourism companies would change their minds.

Of course the Thai government don't want the news to get out (it's bad for business) that the fact is (comparatively speaking) Thailand is an extremely dangerous place for westerners. Western goverments don't advise their citizens of the dangers in Thailand because they (embassy staff and ambassadors etc) spend most of their time ingratiating themselves to their friends in the Thai goverment and it's departments.

Well it seems to occupy a lot of time on BBC World news. This surprises me really as there are so many other cases of crime against foreigners that never get mentioned but they seem to be interested in this particular one.

Why does this surprise you, did you not see the house and cars?

[SteeleJoe]

Just my facts of 8 years living in Samui

2 Friends murdered 1 shot in the head street in Soi Reggae, his friend was shot 4 times in the chest but survived.

Witnessed with my own eyes A Thai shot in the head in Solo Bar

Was in Solo bar when a police security guy was shot dead

Thai on Thai murder in Fishermans village in front of all tourist.

Had a gun pointed at me and couple of friends by two drink immigration officers as we would not give them a drink after the bar was closed.

Was sat in a bar behind green mango (near GB) when a shoot out occured between 2 gangs and bullets hit the bar we were in.

Keep your head down as much as you like but it can be the wild west if you venture out down there.

Except for the Fisherman Village shooting - all related to Red Light districts. Same story can happen in every red light district worldwide.

Green Mango and Reggae are in a red light district? Wow, Samui must have changed even more than I thought, since I lived there.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[maidu]

Let me set the record straight because there seems to be a lot of false assumptions. I was there. I saw everything while waiting for a boat taxi.We were on the beach, not in the bar as reported. 2 thai guys started fighting and running from nowhere, each with a about three or four friends around them. The one Thai was pushed to the ground. Next thing I knew, the guy on the ground pulled out a gun tucked in the front of his pants. I ran. Less then 30 seconds later I heard what I knew was a single gunshot, not multiple shots as reported.. I ran back and was shocked to find a young farang man in a pool of blood. A doctor who was nearby began administering CPR and medics showed within a couple of short minutes. But the poor young man was very white and not breathing. The girlfriend was sobbing as she tried to stop the bleeding. I wasn't sure if the bullet hit the heart or just shoulder. I didn't find out until later when I went to the police station to tell them what I saw, that the bullet had hit the heart. This was not someone involved with the altercation. HIs girlfriend told me that they were just standing nearby, when the stray bullet hit him. They probably were wrestling over the gun. The police told me the the two boys were in gangs and in jail. I hate guns, always have, but this really was an eyeopener. I will never forget this, and it really sucked. Part of me wished I had training so my reaction would have been to disarm the little bastard. I almost felt guilty because I probably could have stopped this. But I could have been hurt too, so I probably did the smart thing but it still sucked.

Thanks for the first-hand account. In one sentence, you write, "They probably were wrestling over the gun." Yet in other sentences you say the farang was not in the thick of it. I assume when you say 'they' you mean two Thai punks, and not the farang. Either way, a sad tragedy. The photo of the victim reminded me of a childhood friend who I've lost touch with. RIP young dude.

I'd like to see all the accompanying Thai punks thrown in the slammer for a year, for being 'accessories' to the crime. Maybe then they'd have some time to think about how to gain a bit of maturity.

Edited January 3, 2013 by maidu

[limbos]

Just my facts of 8 years living in Samui

2 Friends murdered 1 shot in the head street in Soi Reggae, his friend was shot 4 times in the chest but survived.

Witnessed with my own eyes A Thai shot in the head in Solo Bar

Was in Solo bar when a police security guy was shot dead

Thai on Thai murder in Fishermans village in front of all tourist.

Had a gun pointed at me and couple of friends by two drink immigration officers as we would not give them a drink after the bar was closed.

Was sat in a bar behind green mango (near GB) when a shoot out occured between 2 gangs and bullets hit the bar we were in.

Keep your head down as much as you like but it can be the wild west if you venture out down there.

Except for the Fisherman Village shooting - all related to Red Light districts. Same story can happen in every red light district worldwide.

Green Mango and Reggae are in a red light district? Wow, Samui must have changed even more than I thought, since I lived there.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

How you qualify these areas?

Edited January 3, 2013 by PoorSucker
fixed quotes

[SteeleJoe]

How you qualify these areas?

You should ask the other guy, maybe. But while I have a general perception of what it might be I've never really used a specific definition - I suppose this one works:

"A red-light district is a part of an urban area where there is a concentration of prostitution and sex-oriented businesses, such as sex shops, strip clubs, adult theaters, etc."

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[BigC]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

It seems that many people are suffered from " I am better than others syndrome" need to read sth to get realized. I can't post the link but you can google "total crimes by country" for the full list. Here are the top 5 countries in committing crimes

1. USA 11,877,218

2. UK 6,523,706

3. Germany 6,507,394

4. France 3,771,850

5. Rissia 2,592,370

Oh..I forgot Thailand

20. Thailand 565,108

what about murders not just crimes as most crimes are cleared by the Amenesty and some take 5 years or more to reach court

[BigC]

here is mrore picture as to crime stats

[limbos]

How you qualify these areas?

You should ask the other guy, maybe. But while I have a general perception of what it might be I've never really used a specific definition - I suppose this one works:

"A red-light district is a part of an urban area where there is a concentration of prostitution and sex-oriented businesses, such as sex shops, strip clubs, adult theaters, etc."

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

And what can you find in those areas besides sex-oriented business?

[SteeleJoe]

How you qualify these areas?

You should ask the other guy, maybe. But while I have a general perception of what it might be I've never really used a specific definition - I suppose this one works:

"A red-light district is a part of an urban area where there is a concentration of prostitution and sex-oriented businesses, such as sex shops, strip clubs, adult theaters, etc."

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

And what can you find in those areas besides sex-oriented business?

What's with all the questions? If you have a position, why don't you just come out with it?

I'm no expert on contemporary Samui nightlife -- I was once briefly associated with a large club that was meant to be in direct competition with Green Mango and Reggae and I went out to those places and other clubs a few times a week but I haven't even visited Koh Samui for over 15 years.

In my day, in that area there was not much more than Reggae, Doors, and Green Mango. These were all places where Thai and Foreigners of both genders (many of whom had a GF/BF or spouse there on the island) went to dance, listen to music, play pool, hang out with friends and perhaps meet someone with whom to have sex. Of the latter, some were "freelance" sex workers, some were not. If that means such clubs are "sex-oriented businesses" and an area with such places is a "red light district" then virtually every night club in the world is "sex-oriented" and place like Manhattan are one giant red light district.

When I lived on Samui, most of my friends would have been aghast at the idea of visiting someplace like Nana Plaza (I wasn't) but they would go to some of the very nice clubs on the island as well as Reggae or Green Mango because that's what was open late and where large numbers of people congregated (just as in Bangkok they would go to RCA or Thonglor). Perhaps it's different now and it's filled with whoremongers and sex merchants...whatever.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[limbos]

How you qualify these areas?

You should ask the other guy, maybe. But while I have a general perception of what it might be I've never really used a specific definition - I suppose this one works:

"A red-light district is a part of an urban area where there is a concentration of prostitution and sex-oriented businesses, such as sex shops, strip clubs, adult theaters, etc."

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

And what can you find in those areas besides sex-oriented business?

What's with all the questions? If you have a position, why don't you just come out with it?

I'm no expert on contemporary Samui nightlife -- I was once briefly associated with a large club that was meant to be in direct competition with Green Mango and Reggae and I went out to those places and other clubs a few times a week but I haven't even visited Koh Samui for over 15 years.

In my day, in that area there was not much more than Reggae, Doors, and Green Mango. These were all places where Thai and Foreigners of both genders (many of whom had a GF/BF or spouse there on the island) went to dance, listen to music, play pool, hang out with friends and perhaps meet someone with whom to have sex. Of the latter, some were "freelance" sex workers, some were not. If that means such clubs are "sex-oriented businesses" and an area with such places is a "red light district" then virtually every night club in the world is "sex-oriented" and place like Manhattan are one giant red light district.

When I lived on Samui, most of my friends would have been aghast at the idea of visiting someplace like Nana Plaza (I wasn't) but they would go to some of the very nice clubs on the island as well as Reggae or Green Mango because that's what was open late and where large numbers of people congregated (just as in Bangkok they would go to RCA or Thonglor). Perhaps it's different now and it's filled with whoremongers and sex merchants...whatever.

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15 years ago, Soi Green Mango and Soi Reggae were just as today, littered with girly bars and a few go go bars to top it up. If you managed to overlook these obvious sex oriented places, with all due respect, where or what were you looking at.

Besides Lamai in those days, the two areas mentioned were about the only red light districts for Westerners on the island.

[SteeleJoe]

15 years ago, Soi Green Mango and Soi Reggae were just as today, littered with girly bars and a few go go bars to top it up. If you managed to overlook these obvious sex oriented places, with all due respect, where or what were you looking at.

Besides Lamai in those days, the two areas mentioned were about the only red light districts for Westerners on the island.

First of all note that I said I last VISITED Samui in OVER 15 years ago. On that occasion, I don't think I ever set foot on Chaweng (I stayed in Menam and with a friend elsewhere on a quite corner of the island and enjoyed beauty and a certain amount of serenity) and I know I didn't go to Reggae or Green Mango. Secondly, if things were also as you describe 21 years ago, then perhaps a combination of my personal interests at the time and now (ie clubs and not girly bars) and a poor memory have misled me.

So you have finally come out with it and we have established that that area is a red light district? Great, I hope you feel better. I never said it wasn't but I really don't give a fug.

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Edited January 3, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[limbos]

You most certainly tried very hard to make it sound it wasn't a red light district. Maybe not as much as 21 years ago but definitely 15 years ago.

Edited January 3, 2013 by limbos

[SteeleJoe]

You most certainly tried very hard to make it sound it wasn't a red light district. Maybe not as much as 21 years ago but definitely 15 years ago.

I didn't try to do any such thing. I described how I recalled it from about 21 years ago. Sorry about that. If I'd realized it was important to anyone, I would have never have asked the original rhetorical question or expressed my mild surprise. Or maybe I would have tried to have been more careful to be more comprehensive, precise and accurate in my recollection.

And again - I wasn't there 15 years ago, didn't claim to be and have no comment about what it was like then.

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[masterbiker49]

Rest in peace young man. Should be a warning for others not to have an argument with locals, as they never fight alone and they loose face.

Even if somebody would beat the shit out of three guys, it wouldn't be over for them. They'll be back.

Another sad fact about this island is that so many foreigners die overdosed on drugs, but Thai authorities don't want to let us know the truth about their incapable system.

Thais fool foreigners, by telling them they'd be cops and some grass could finish their holiday immediately by paying all they've got to guys who're just acting like they were cops. And the real cops know that, get their part of it as well.

It's not the Land of Smiles and never was

. I hope that somebody knew him to inform the authorities. Can't be a good start of a new year for his relatives and friends. I'm sure that Thai media won't report much about it. --

Long ago(10+yrs) I was told LOS does not stand for Land Of Smiles but Land Of Scams,sadly it is increasing & spoiling it all,Falang & Thai alike.

[sbk]

except of course none of this took place in Samui and the young man didn't get in a fight with a local.