Australian Pensioner Wins The Right To Claim His Pension In Se Asia (Including Thailand)

[weegee]

Seen the Google ADD below the last post....advertising for Visas to work in Australia.

Great hey, Aussies out of work everywhere,( some because they are third generation Bludgers)...and they advertise for foreign workers, who will gladly have the job to settle themselves into what they can take out and bring home to their country for the rest of their life....round and round it goes, and Australians who worked and payed Taxes all their life are allowing this to happen....OH NO!!! I didnt vote for them!!!!

[FDog]

Seen the Google ADD below the last post....advertising for Visas to work in Australia.

Great hey, Aussies out of work everywhere,( some because they are third generation Bludgers)...and they advertise for foreign workers, who will gladly have the job to settle themselves into what they can take out and bring home to their country for the rest of their life....round and round it goes, and Australians who worked and payed Taxes all their life are allowing this to happen....OH NO!!! I didnt vote for them!!!!

Yeah sure, have you ever thought of trying to get one of those jobs advertised in Aus. I can tell you they are like hens teeth. The mining boom is a fallacy for workers. You MUST have experience in that field. They aren't interested in training anyone at all. So the only workers they are SUPPOSED to get from overseas are those with experience in the field that no aussies can do.

The dopey govt, if they used half a brain, would tell the mining companies that they can get foreign workers but for every one of them they must employ an aussie to be trained in the same position. When that aussie is trained then the foreigner should be sent home.

But it aint gonna happen. Just go onto google and try and apply for those so called jobs. Not a hope in hell.

No one can live on a diability pension or OAP in Aus unless they actually own their own home. Honestly it would not be a live but a very meagre existence. The cost of living is extreme and it is getting worse. I earned $50k a year less tax and had to live with my brother to survive. I certainly couldn't afford to live in a place on my own. The whole economy is based on married couples, must have a double income. Any single man is shit on, he gets nothing.

Cost of housing was way too high causing many young couples to live with parents until late 20's etc so they could save to buy a house. Then of course there is the borrowing agains the house for a car etc. Then the housing bubble burst and expendable income dropped, hence no one is Aus is spending.

Perhaps someone in the know could tell me as I don't know about Super but there is a lot of complaining that those who did save and live off their Super are now finding it hard because the Reserve Bank has dropped interest rates so low. Though the banks don't think to drop them accordingly.

Mining boom is slowing, When that bubble bursts I would hate to be living in Aus, Aus may have averted the global financial crisis for now, but it will come and when it does it will be a huge fall.

Glad I got out of there. Now living on half the money with twice the lifestyle.

[samran]

Good one Weegee. Only a few days into the new year are you are already in the running for the most nonsensical post of 2013.

[culicine]

The guy is getting a disability pension, not OAP as he's 62. Under current rules, once he's 65 the disability pension rolls over to a OAP, so long as he is resident in Australia at that time & would then be able to receive the OAP whilst living overseas full time.

Well my mother survives quite well living in Australia on her OAP, and she pays rent. She owns very little herself. I'm not sure how much the disability pension is, but it seems a weak excuse for wandering around Asia, and claiming "I can't afford to live in Australia". He doesn't sound so disabled either, if he can travel and live in many countries also.

[culicine]

The guy is getting a disability pension, not OAP as he's 62. Under current rules, once he's 65 the disability pension rolls over to a OAP, so long as he is resident in Australia at that time & would then be able to receive the OAP whilst living overseas full time.

Well my mother lives in Australia on her OAP, and she pays rent. She owns very little herself. She manages, as she can clam rent assistance that helps a bit. I'm not sure how much the disability pension is, but it seems a weak excuse for wandering around Asia, and claiming "I can't afford to live in Australia". It can be done, but you won't have an extravagant life. He doesn't sound so disabled either, if he can travel and live in many countries also.

[FDog]

The guy is getting a disability pension, not OAP as he's 62. Under current rules, once he's 65 the disability pension rolls over to a OAP, so long as he is resident in Australia at that time & would then be able to receive the OAP whilst living overseas full time.

Well my mother survives quite well living in Australia on her OAP, and she pays rent. She owns very little herself. I'm not sure how much the disability pension is, but it seems a weak excuse for wandering around Asia, and claiming "I can't afford to live in Australia". He doesn't sound so disabled either, if he can travel and live in many countries also.

My mother doesn't live quite well on the OAP and she owns her own house. Doesn't live well at all. Every penny is counted.

[culicine]

The guy is getting a disability pension, not OAP as he's 62. Under current rules, once he's 65 the disability pension rolls over to a OAP, so long as he is resident in Australia at that time & would then be able to receive the OAP whilst living overseas full time.

Well my mother survives quite well living in Australia on her OAP, and she pays rent. She owns very little herself. I'm not sure how much the disability pension is, but it seems a weak excuse for wandering around Asia, and claiming "I can't afford to live in Australia". He doesn't sound so disabled either, if he can travel and live in many countries also.

My mother doesn't live quite well on the OAP and she owns her own house. Doesn't live well at all. Every penny is counted.

Note my edited version...survive is the key word.

[IrishIvan]

So how come all the people in my family reaching retirement age now are having to go on pensions?

That is a question you will have to answer yourself as they are your family. How could I answer without knowing them?

Well bookman my family all had good paying blue collar jobs. It could be described as a huge family. We grew up in a large housing commission house in Maroubra.My Dad was a wharfie (along wih a lot of other older family members), he received a nice payout in 98 and then looks like getting another redundancy this year too. With this money in 98 he lost his housing commission place and put the money into another house in the arra. My mum was a welfare recepiant while she raised us. After we grew up a bit she got a job as a glassy in the local bowling club. So they own their own house now but they still have to live there and come up with money for the bills, a lot of the money was spent on the kids

One my many Uncles that lived with us was a garbo, when they contracted out a lot of these jobs he got made redundant along with a few of my other family members, funnily enough they all got jobs as baggage handlers in Sydney Airport. On another side of the family they had a tow truck business, and are quite wealthy. Also on mums side of the family there were a lot of scaffolders and labourers in the construction industry, train drivers, ferry workers, a couple worked for the MSB before they were made redundant. Mate too many to list really

Now as I said a lot of these people are hitting retirement age and yes they own their own houses, they all had/have good paying jobs but they will not be cash rich and will have to rely on some form of social security like the old age pension, and if they want to live overseas whats the problem?

[samran]

Geez, isn't the answer to the 'why are they going on pensions' question pretty bloody obvious?

Super contributions of any serious amounts didn't kick in till the early 2000's when they hit 9%. If you were in the workforce before then, unless you were richy rich or decided to build up your own investment portfolio, the reasonable expectation was that you'd have the OAP.

It is only going to be those who started work in 2000 onwards would it be reasonable to expect your super would cover you for a large portion of your retirement.

[weegee]

This Just about covers it....have a laugh.

A guy walked into the local job Centre, marched straight

> up to the counter and said 'Hi, I'm looking for a job'.

> The man behind the counter replied 'Your timing is amazing. We've just got

> one in from a very wealthy man who wants a chauffeur/bodyguard for his

> nymphomaniac twin daughters. You'll have to drive around in a big black

> Mercedes and wear the uniform provided. The hours are a bit long but meals

> are provided. You also have to escort the young ladies on their overseas

> holidays. The salary package$200,000 a year!'

You have to be Bullshitting me said the guy

The man behind the counter replied, "You started it"

[Scoop1]

Agree with the posters re what the article is about - if he qualifies he is qualified - this is not a discussion about if he should get paid or not.

I have discussed this issue with Aussie government people, arguing that the actual costs that the government must pay under the Australian system (and being drawn from the over taxed tax payers money). I would be happy to have my mother over here for more time each year, and she would be happy to spend time here with me. She is not free to choose where she spends her time now because she has been told that part or all of her pension will be cut, which also means her access to health care and lower cost travel in Australia will be lost, if she spends too long outside of Australia.

She paid tax for many many years before retiring to care for my stepfather before he passed away.

Now, the next challenges are how to ensure this ruling is extended to all pensioners in a way that the Aussie government saves money, and how to allow private health insurance payments (from Aussie Insurers) to be made to appropriately qualified medical establishments here. Imagine how much the government would save, and thus lower taxes required!!!

well said, i have paid taxes all my life, i want my pension no matter where i live, i have earned it

scoop 1

[Will27]

Some very unpleasant views being offered here.

On another note, last year Medicare found out we spend most of the year overseas. Long story, but we weren't worried, we lodge tax returns and pay the Medicare levy when necessary. Wrong. We were really surprised to find out that we're not entitled to it, I think 60 days then you have to prove that you are resident again, which could be hard. We have our mail go to a friends' house, so we have bank statements, tax returns, insurance etc but they also wanted house deeds or a lease, letter from employer, utility bill in our name. Even my GP was shocked at it; her sister is working in Vietnam and they had no idea she wasn't eligible

Make sure they don't find out if you are relying on Medicare as a last resort. We've even been paying our private health insurance so we could be in and out of the country as quickly as possible if the need arose. They have to same rules. Apparently we a 'apply' for an exemption to the Medicare levy, but 'it's not guaranteed'.

The chappie in question here with the pension would be in the same boat as us, except we're self-funded retirees and we still lodge tax returns (it benefits us to do so, but I was so annoyed at Medicare not recognising us as resident, even though the tax office does, that may change).

Are you sure the ATO recognizes you as residents?

Obviously it depends on how much time you spend overseas and

ties to Australia etc.

Many people are unaware that they're actually non-residents for tax purposes

and claim to be residents. That's a whole other topic though.

Regards

Will

Edited January 7, 2013 by Will27

[BookMan]

So how come all the people in my family reaching retirement age now are having to go on pensions?

That is a question you will have to answer yourself as they are your family. How could I answer without knowing them?

Well bookman my family all had good paying blue collar jobs. It could be described as a huge family. We grew up in a large housing commission house in Maroubra.My Dad was a wharfie (along wih a lot of other older family members), he received a nice payout in 98 and then looks like getting another redundancy this year too. With this money in 98 he lost his housing commission place and put the money into another house in the arra. My mum was a welfare recepiant while she raised us. After we grew up a bit she got a job as a glassy in the local bowling club. So they own their own house now but they still have to live there and come up with money for the bills, a lot of the money was spent on the kids

One my many Uncles that lived with us was a garbo, when they contracted out a lot of these jobs he got made redundant along with a few of my other family members, funnily enough they all got jobs as baggage handlers in Sydney Airport. On another side of the family they had a tow truck business, and are quite wealthy. Also on mums side of the family there were a lot of scaffolders and labourers in the construction industry, train drivers, ferry workers, a couple worked for the MSB before they were made redundant. Mate too many to list really

Now as I said a lot of these people are hitting retirement age and yes they own their own houses, they all had/have good paying jobs but they will not be cash rich and will have to rely on some form of social security like the old age pension, and if they want to live overseas whats the problem?

Your family sounds like they are hard working individuals. Owning your own house is of great benefit once you reach retirement age.

As for the OAP, at this moment in time I believe the rules of receiving OAP pension will not make it a problem. AFAIK you can live anywhere, if you meet the criteria, for OAP.

I personally do not believe however that this will be the case in the nearish future.

[BEVUP]

Seen the Google ADD below the last post....advertising for Visas to work in Australia.

Great hey, Aussies out of work everywhere,( some because they are third generation Bludgers)...and they advertise for foreign workers, who will gladly have the job to settle themselves into what they can take out and bring home to their country for the rest of their life....round and round it goes, and Australians who worked and payed Taxes all their life are allowing this to happen....OH NO!!! I didnt vote for them!!!!

& while they dont let this happen ( Refer to Gov & Unions who do ) I myself am out of work (not through lack of skills ) & only took unemployment benifits in my 30 yr worklife for 2 weeks & would just like to have the same privaledge the Nomad recieved knowing the which ever Gov is in will look after there citizens

Hope you got this just had to duck a flying pig whilst trying to hit the enter key

[Konini]

it's funny you are always a resident when it comes to paying taxes, lets take Paul Hogan as an example.

60 days isn't right it's longer than that

I just googled and it's 5 years absence

I don't understand your Hogan remark. He's a millionaire who was accused of not paying taxes. I'm a self-funded retiree and I pay taxes. It's reasonable to expect if I pay taxes I am entitled to benefits.

I checked with 3 different departments of Medicare - I wasn't about to take that one sitting down. My accountant also independently checked as he didn't believe it. Everyone quoted a number of days, 60 or possibly 90.

[barrybankruad]

it's funny you are always a resident when it comes to paying taxes, lets take Paul Hogan as an example.

60 days isn't right it's longer than that

I just googled and it's 5 years absence

I don't understand your Hogan remark. He's a millionaire who was accused of not paying taxes. I'm a self-funded retiree and I pay taxes. It's reasonable to expect if I pay taxes I am entitled to benefits.

I checked with 3 different departments of Medicare - I wasn't about to take that one sitting down. My accountant also independently checked as he didn't believe it. Everyone quoted a number of days, 60 or possibly 90.

I have been on the aged pension now for 5 plus years. When I applied for this pension I told I told them that I intended to live overseas. Centrelink and the taxation department are well aware that I live in Thailand and have my address. A couple of months ago I received a 23 page taxation questionnaire which I had to fill in and declare to be true, This was to ascertain whether my financial assets had changed (and perhaps also to check whether I was still alive!). I got a letter of acknowledgement also stating that my aged pension benefits would remain unchanged.

[Konini]

Are you sure the ATO recognizes you as residents?

Obviously it depends on how much time you spend overseas and

ties to Australia etc.

Many people are unaware that they're actually non-residents for tax purposes

and claim to be residents. That's a whole other topic though.

Regards

Will

Before we left, a solicitor told us that legally we have to be resident somewhere due to an international convention on tax payments. If you aren't resident anywhere you wouldn't have to pay tax anywhere. Makes sense when you look at it that way, all of the really rich would spend 2 months here, 2 months there and never stay in one place long enough to pay income tax. That is precisely what we were doing when we first started travelling so it sounded sensible. I was told by someone else that with some government departments we would be recognised as resident but different departments have different criteria.

If anyone has any further info or official government sources on this I would appreciate it.

[Konini]

I have been on the aged pension now for 5 plus years. When I applied for this pension I told I told them that I intended to live overseas. Centrelink and the taxation department are well aware that I live in Thailand and have my address. A couple of months ago I received a 23 page taxation questionnaire which I had to fill in and declare to be true, This was to ascertain whether my financial assets had changed (and perhaps also to check whether I was still alive!). I got a letter of acknowledgement also stating that my aged pension benefits would remain unchanged.

I understand (but now am doubting it) that Medicare has it's own little set of rules separate to the others. Two different people within Medicare told me this and they refused to refund the scheduled fee for a visit to my GP last year whilst we were over.

I would appreciate being pointed to anything that could disprove this.

[Pink Mist]

60 or 90 days isnt correct, I live over here and return to Oz after 1 year and have never had a problem with medicare. It states in the eligability that if you are returning after 5 years you will need to provide proof of residence, I know one person who had to go thru this procedure, in fact he used to be a Mod on this forum.

http://prntscr.com/oe270

[jamescollister]

60 or 90 days isnt correct, I live over here and return to Oz after 1 year and have never had a problem with medicare. It states in the eligability that if you are returning after 5 years you will need to provide proof of residence, I know one person who had to go thru this procedure, in fact he used to be a Mod on this forum.

http://prntscr.com/oe270

Don't know what the Medicare time limit is, but went back to OZ last year, cataracts. No cover, non resident, had to pay for everything.

According to centerlink I became a non resident about 3 years ago entailed to zip, nada, nothing.

Have a Thai wife who has permanent residence stamped in her passport, non resident, 2 kids born in Australia non resident.

Can always go back and live and become a resident again, but not really anything to go back to. Have given up on the place, will live and die in Thailand. Jim

[Pink Mist]

I was just saying that 60 or 90 days isnt right as far as medicare goes, if I got that advice from a medicare staffer I would be asking to see supervisor and to show me where it states the period of absence in the medicare legislation.

As I said after 1 year I have no problems.

[Konini]

60 or 90 days isnt correct, I live over here and return to Oz after 1 year and have never had a problem with medicare. It states in the eligability that if you are returning after 5 years you will need to provide proof of residence, I know one person who had to go thru this procedure, in fact he used to be a Mod on this forum.

http://prntscr.com/oe270

The screen shot says "Lives in" and is a citizen etc etc. Going back after one year wouldn't be a problem if they didn't know (they didn't know for the first 4 years we were away) or if you are back to stay permanently and can prove it. For the majority of people, Medicare would never have any reason to think or know that you have been out of the country. I asked to see a supervisor, but there wasn't one handy - this lady was so unpleasant and smug about it she made my usually placid husband almost angry. I got back to our friends' place and hit the phone straight away, if for no other reason than to go back and have her apologise for being so awful. On the phone I got the same answer and went to a supervisor, the supervisor gave the same answer and went up higher in the chain, but it really made no difference. They all said the same thing, we had to prove that we were back in Australia to live permanently, proof being a lease, letter from employer, utility bill etc. They also told me that we could apply for an exemption. The person our accountant checked with was a golfing and Rotary buddy, so I'm imagining pretty high up, and he said the same - although I'm told he said words to the effect of whyever did they tell them? I really would like to go back to this horrid woman, but I don't think that there's anyone left for me to check with. When I said we were spending thousands of dollars every year on private health cover she, very smartly, said "Well, that's been a waste of money then, hasn't it?"

So, as far as I have been able to ascertain - and I really did try to get a different answer, it makes no difference from 91 days (or 61 days) to 91 weeks or 91 months. If you are back LIVING or RESIDING in Australia permanently and can prove it, you are entitled, but if you're heading back overseas again you're not.

[paymaster]

The guy is getting a disability pension, not OAP as he's 62. Under current rules, once he's 65 the disability pension rolls over to a OAP, so long as he is resident in Australia at that time & would then be able to receive the OAP whilst living overseas full time.

Did you read the article? He has no address so how can he reside in Australia?

Streets arent an address.

Look out Pattaya, a influx of methadone addicts from australia that claim 'DISABILITY' pensions due to their 'Illness'.

Its too easy to claim disabilty in Australia.

Just a little accuracy in comments would be helpful. No mention is made to methedone.It was a judgement made in a case by case scenario. I think most importantly he didnt get his disability pension easily, the guy suffers from schizophrenia probably the most debilitating of all mental disorders. good luck to him.

[kaorop]

With the recent focus on 'The Asian Century', the asian white paper etc.and the call for an increase in the understanding of asian cultures, business practices etc,

Shouldn't this guy be in a cushy highly paid 'gov consultancy' job?

Bet he knows more about asia than many of the people in those positions.

[Will27]

Are you sure the ATO recognizes you as residents?

Obviously it depends on how much time you spend overseas and

ties to Australia etc.

Many people are unaware that they're actually non-residents for tax purposes

and claim to be residents. That's a whole other topic though.

Regards

Will

Before we left, a solicitor told us that legally we have to be resident somewhere due to an international convention on tax payments. If you aren't resident anywhere you wouldn't have to pay tax anywhere. Makes sense when you look at it that way, all of the really rich would spend 2 months here, 2 months there and never stay in one place long enough to pay income tax. That is precisely what we were doing when we first started travelling so it sounded sensible. I was told by someone else that with some government departments we would be recognised as resident but different departments have different criteria.

If anyone has any further info or official government sources on this I would appreciate it.

That's right, different departments have different criteria for residency, like DIAC, ATO and Medicare.

Here is a residency tool from the ATO: http://calculators.a...ncy_leaving.XR4

Like I said, it will depend on a variety of factors such as ties to Australia, amount of time living away etc.

The majority, if not all of the Australians that I know who are living in Thailand, would be considered non-residents

for tax purposes. In other words, they have a new place to live in Thailand, have no ties to Australia and hardly ever return.

But most claim to be residents as they don't want to get slaughtered by the gov't for being assessed as a non-resident.

As Australia's taxation system is based on have self assessment, people seem to think that the ATO considers them to be residents when this is not correct.

Usually people just slip under the radar due to income levels, occupations and luck I guess.

Regards

Will

Regards

Will

Edited January 7, 2013 by Will27

[Pink Mist]

well Konnini all I can say is it's never been a problem for me and I have never made a secret of the fact I would be heading back to Thailand,.

I emailed medicare and asked them how long can we be out of Australia before we lose benefits, so now I wait.

[Konini]

well Konnini all I can say is it's never been a problem for me and I have never made a secret of the fact I would be heading back to Thailand,.

I emailed medicare and asked them how long can we be out of Australia before we lose benefits, so now I wait.

You really have no idea how much I hope you get the answer we both want - we go to Australia in 3 weeks and nothing would please me more than marching into Werribee Medicare office. To be safe, I hope you didn't supply your full name or Medicare number.

Please let us know what they say. I think this would be of interest to a lot of people who, like me, thought if anything bad comes up health-wise, it's only a matter of jumping on a plane back to Aus, getting if fixed then getting on with life.

[BookMan]

well Konnini all I can say is it's never been a problem for me and I have never made a secret of the fact I would be heading back to Thailand,.

I emailed medicare and asked them how long can we be out of Australia before we lose benefits, so now I wait.

You really have no idea how much I hope you get the answer we both want - we go to Australia in 3 weeks and nothing would please me more than marching into Werribee Medicare office. To be safe, I hope you didn't supply your full name or Medicare number.

Please let us know what they say. I think this would be of interest to a lot of people who, like me, thought if anything bad comes up health-wise, it's only a matter of jumping on a plane back to Aus, getting if fixed then getting on with life.

Isn't it fairly simple?

Permanent resident = Medicare available

Not permanent resident = Medicare not available

[simple1]

well Konnini all I can say is it's never been a problem for me and I have never made a secret of the fact I would be heading back to Thailand,.

I emailed medicare and asked them how long can we be out of Australia before we lose benefits, so now I wait.

You really have no idea how much I hope you get the answer we both want - we go to Australia in 3 weeks and nothing would please me more than marching into Werribee Medicare office. To be safe, I hope you didn't supply your full name or Medicare number.

Please let us know what they say. I think this would be of interest to a lot of people who, like me, thought if anything bad comes up health-wise, it's only a matter of jumping on a plane back to Aus, getting if fixed then getting on with life.

Isn't it fairly simple?

Permanent resident = Medicare available

Not permanent resident = Medicare not available

Yes it is & from the medicare website PDF download it states you need to prove Australian residency status when have been living overseas for more than 5 years and are returning to Australia to live.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/spw/customer/forms/resources/3101-1211en.pdf

Edited January 8, 2013 by simple1

[Naaling]

"Isn't it fairly simple?

Permanent resident = Medicare available

Not permanent resident = Medicare not available

Yes it is & from the medicare website PDF download it states you need to prove Australian residency status when have been living overseas for more than 5 years and are returning to Australia to live.

http://www.humanserv...3101-1211en.pdf"

This whole issue hinges on the meaning of the word "residency". It has both a general and legal meaning. The general meaning is the way it is being used in these discussions - you have to be living in a country to be resident there. However this is not the case with the legal meaning. The legal meaning is more concerned with a persons status than where they actually live.

Put simply, in legal terms, if an Australian resident leaves Australia they remain an Australian resident until they become a resident in another country. They can only do that by establishing a PERMANENT abode in that country.

In Thailand an Australian expat on one year extensions cannot legally establish a PERMANENT abode here.

The Australian government websites are intentionally designed to mislead people who do not understand the true legal situation, in the hope that they will go away and not claim their rights.