Swimming In A Sesspit

[IMA_FARANG]

Yes, and I don't mean to be rude to the original poster but ......

there is this thing called punctuation and you know without punctuation it becomes very hard to read the post clearly and it ruins the effect of the point you want to make if you simply ramble on without stopping or starting some place which is what punctuation is supposed to used for isn't it.

So, please, next time use some punctuation in your sentences.

Thank you.

[londoedan]

Yes, and I don't mean to be rude to the original poster but ......

there is this thing called punctuation and you know without punctuation it becomes very hard to read the post clearly and it ruins the effect of the point you want to make if you simply ramble on without stopping or starting some place which is what punctuation is supposed to used for isn't it.

So, please, next time use some punctuation in your sentences.

Thank you.

It worked OK for James Joyce:

"Stream-of-consciousness writing is usually regarded as a special form of interior monologue and is characterized by associative leaps in thought and lack of punctuation"

[PattayaPhom]

Being New Year is the busiest time it's no wonder there will be rubbish. Go to any party/festival anywhere in the world and the aftermath is the same, Go back next week and see what it'd normally like

[Asiantravel]

When I look at the filth, litter that is in Pattaya Bay or Jomtien, I have to remind myself this evidence that Thailand is a developing country--Just like countries in Africa. Many locals are not educated to take care of their litter along with city officials are not willing to provide the correct infrastructure (proper sewage; sewage treatment plants; fining industries or boats that pollute; providing simple things such as trash bins--chained to a tree of course.) Living in 5 different countries around the world, (Africa, Middle East, and Asia) I have discovered one cannot judge a country's development by its towering modern buildings and highways, but how the governments (and locals) take care of their environment along with progress. It is true, Thailand once had beautiful beaches but as development provided quick wealth for some, it also ruined what tourists were attracted to.

Anyone with a passing knowledge of economics knows that concern for the environment, in all it forms, I.e., clean water, air, proper garbage and sewage disposal, etc., is a "luxury" good. Hence, it is only when a society achieves a certain level of material comfort that these issues even start to come to the fore. Thailand, with a GDP per person of around US$ 6k, is still a quite poor and very much a developing country, which has a long way to go before any serious environmental movement begins to stir.

It pretty silly for tourists and expats to constantly harp othe state of the environment, I can still remember what it was like in the USA only a few decades ago.

Then if they haven't yet reached “ a certain level of material comfort “ as you put it, it may pay them to concentrate more on developing and solving this issue first than to wannabe the " hub " of everything on earth?

1. 
   

Edited January 3, 2013 by Asiantravel

[fakename]

Where were you in the USA? And what was it like there? I have never seen any beach, at least in California, like this. Yes, there was pollution and there still is, but in this case, we are talking about Pattaya beaches, the HUB of the World, or so some think. It is not just about the beach, but every soi, every empty piece of land is converted into a dump. The only thing that keeps these dumps lower than the highest condo, are the trash pickers, with their little kids, that should be in school, but only learning to be trash pickers, and when they graduate, they will be working beach road.

Every time there is a rain or wind, the trash just goes out to the beach, out to sea, then back again. Yeah, it would be great if the people that made their living on the beach, would clean it too, but in reality, its just too big of a job, and that job should be done by the city. The city has dozens of workers, that take care of the strip, between the lanes on Sukhumvit, cutting grass, trimming the bushes, blocking traffic. Why not employ the same kind of workers, cleaning the beach? The only people that clean the beach, is usually a few stupid farangs, and maybe a Thai. No, they are not really stupid, just caring people, but the people that dirty the beach are not caring, just selfish, greedy and lazy, too far to walk to the dumpster.

[maturebrit]

and people wonder why so many thais get sick.....one gram of prevention is more effective than a ton of cure....but thats the way life is here....Go to the public / state run hospitals and look at the queues.... if your not sick when you go there .you will be before you leave

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[Awohalitsiktoli]

I was thinking the same thing. I remember beaches in the USA as far back as the earlys and none were anything like what I am seeing in Thailand now. Yes, there were isolated instances (chemicals dumped in a river, etc.), but in the USA the beaches have, in general, been far cleaner than in Thailand. Let me point out that what we can see, while terrible for tourism, if often far less destructive, in terms of health, than what we cannot see (chemicals and assorted micro-waste materials). I am often mystified at Thai mentality. The apparently have no moral obligation to future generations. I am also mystified at tourists who come here, see the reality of the place, and return to swim in the filth (what are they thinking?.......question assumes "thinking").

[londoedan]

I was thinking the same thing. I remember beaches in the USA as far back as the early 60s and none were anything like what I am seeing in Thailand now. Yes, there were isolated instances (chemicals dumped in a river, etc.), but in the USA the beaches have, in general, been far cleaner than in Thailand. Let me point out that what we can see, while terrible for tourism, if often far less destructive, in terms of health, than what we cannot see (chemicals and assorted micro-waste materials). I am often mystified at Thai mentality. The apparently have no moral obligation to future generations. I am also mystified at tourists who come here, see the reality of the place, and return to swim in the filth (what are they thinking?.......question assumes "thinking").

oops..two posts.

Never mind - you keep spouting the same old tired tripe - and I'll keep swimming in the sea.

[maturebrit]

I was thinking the same thing. I remember beaches in the USA as far back as the early 60s and none were anything like what I am seeing in Thailand now. Yes, there were isolated instances (chemicals dumped in a river, etc.), but in the USA the beaches have, in general, been far cleaner than in Thailand. Let me point out that what we can see, while terrible for tourism, if often far less destructive, in terms of health, than what we cannot see (chemicals and assorted micro-waste materials). I am often mystified at Thai mentality. The apparently have no moral obligation to future generations. I am also mystified at tourists who come here, see the reality of the place, and return to swim in the filth (what are they thinking?.......question assumes "thinking").

oops..two posts.

Never mind - you keep spouting the same old tired tripe - and I'll keep swimming in the sea.

good man...... put those antibodies to the test... what dont kill ya only makes you stronger....NOT

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[BlackJack]

We stayed in the Furama hotel in Jomtien a couple of weeks ago, overlooking the sea.

Every morning I could see an area about 100 metres out to sea, where some kind of effluent was quite clearly 'bubbling' to the surface, with a long, dark, slick trailing away in the direction of the tide. It hadn't rained for days.

I have read that 'grey' water is legally allowed to be drained into the sea but the smell coming from the storm drains along the pavement/sidewalk all along that Jomtien beach road leads me to believe it is far more than grey water.

No, we didn't go swimming in the sea :-)

YOU MEAN THIS? you are right it wasnt raining but the stuff was still going into the sea

when its raining there are more of these black plumbs or god knows what

and the air quality

this is not mist its smoke

[BoonToong]

YOU MEAN THIS?

Looks very similar to what I saw, yes.

[smedly]

Thais are so busy stuffing money into their pockets that they miss the big picture

Pattaya is turning into a crime ridden gun toting cess pit of filth and the people and authorities don't care where this place is headed fast - every holiday destination relies on repeat customers - how many do you actually think return here after their first trip - my guess would be not too many

I've lived here 9 years and would have liked to see improvements over that period but unfortunately that is not the case, in every respect I can think of this place is going down hill fast

[Phronesis]

I have read the posts in this thread and at least a similar one recently about observations of 'trashed out' beaches and seas in the Pattaya area... I'm not an eye witness yet, but from the content of the posts, this series of eyesores evidently is quite extensive. Since no one else is taking the initiative to expand and enhance the local clean up effort, I suggest it would be great idea if some civic minded Thai and Farang folks teamed up to get the local residents and business in that area involved with this 'cooperative' program mentioned in the following link - in an effort to help clean up the beaches which in turn will help the sea...

http://www.thaivisa....sh-to-treasure/

I've been a recycler for years. While I'm not a tree huger nor am I 'all warm and fuzzy' about this concept ... I just think it makes good sense economically, environmentally and otherwise. While no setup would be easy nor system perfect - recycling can be a 'win-win' situation as is shown in the referenced article. If some 'guiding hand' puts an effort into getting recycling going and keeping it going in their area... the net result - people will earn a few baht, or trade for food and the beaches and streets will be cleaner. It doesn't have to be anymore complicated than that. The concept just needs to be spread to where it is needed. Yes - in the case of Pattaya the resort owners, the local government, the retail shops, the clubs, the condo and apartment owners and investors,etc. could get off the hook for their responsibility for cleanup and maintenance - BUT they could be roped into being a part of this recycling activity with a little effort.

I have another related suggestion. As some of you may be aware, in the U.S. we have volunteer clean up programs called "Adopt a Street, Highway, Nature Trail, Bike Path, Beach, etc." Adoptive Groups and Clubs that do this sort of thing range from the Boy and Girl Scout Troops, Motorcycle Clubs, Civic Groups like the Rotary Club, Soccer Leagues, local schools, etc. ... the list is endless. The "Adopt a Site" participants know that the city, county and state collect taxes that should pay for maintenance and that they are responsible - But the Groups and Clubs do the cleanup anyway. Usually a prominent sign is erected proclaiming that "Adopt a Beach" is being performed by "Farangs United" or some other heartfelt group . This way the clean up gets done with periodic outings sometimes done with a bit of flare and festivities. The volunteer crews often wear custom day glow safety vest with the group's name and matching caps. By setting the example, this effort sometimes results in the local residents, merchants and even the government maintenance offices getting into the act.

Some good PR to be had here for some deserving group I would think...

Sure...I will pitch in...let me know when you have my work permit ready.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Being New Year is the busiest time it's no wonder there will be rubbish. Go to any party/festival anywhere in the world and the aftermath is the same, Go back next week and see what it'd normally like

Bang Saray beach was laden with garbage early last month, long before the holiday season. For all I know it's the same garbage.

By "laden" I mean that it would not be possible to walk 2 paces in a straight line without stepping on some plastic detritus or worse. The only time I ever saw more plastic waste on a beach here was a few months ago near Rayong. In places I couldnt actually see the sand any more there was so much plastic.

[JDGRUEN]

I have read the posts in this thread and at least a similar one recently about observations of 'trashed out' beaches and seas in the Pattaya area... I'm not an eye witness yet, but from the content of the posts, this series of eyesores evidently is quite extensive. Since no one else is taking the initiative to expand and enhance the local clean up effort, I suggest it would be great idea if some civic minded Thai and Farang folks teamed up to get the local residents and business in that area involved with this 'cooperative' program mentioned in the following link - in an effort to help clean up the beaches which in turn will help the sea...

http://www.thaivisa....sh-to-treasure/

I've been a recycler for years. While I'm not a tree huger nor am I 'all warm and fuzzy' about this concept ... I just think it makes good sense economically, environmentally and otherwise. While no setup would be easy nor system perfect - recycling can be a 'win-win' situation as is shown in the referenced article. If some 'guiding hand' puts an effort into getting recycling going and keeping it going in their area... the net result - people will earn a few baht, or trade for food and the beaches and streets will be cleaner. It doesn't have to be anymore complicated than that. The concept just needs to be spread to where it is needed. Yes - in the case of Pattaya the resort owners, the local government, the retail shops, the clubs, the condo and apartment owners and investors,etc. could get off the hook for their responsibility for cleanup and maintenance - BUT they could be roped into being a part of this recycling activity with a little effort.

I have another related suggestion. As some of you may be aware, in the U.S. we have volunteer clean up programs called "Adopt a Street, Highway, Nature Trail, Bike Path, Beach, etc." Adoptive Groups and Clubs that do this sort of thing range from the Boy and Girl Scout Troops, Motorcycle Clubs, Civic Groups like the Rotary Club, Soccer Leagues, local schools, etc. ... the list is endless. The "Adopt a Site" participants know that the city, county and state collect taxes that should pay for maintenance and that they are responsible - But the Groups and Clubs do the cleanup anyway. Usually a prominent sign is erected proclaiming that "Adopt a Beach" is being performed by "Farangs United" or some other heartfelt group . This way the clean up gets done with periodic outings sometimes done with a bit of flare and festivities. The volunteer crews often wear custom day glow safety vest with the group's name and matching caps. By setting the example, this effort sometimes results in the local residents, merchants and even the government maintenance offices getting into the act.

Some good PR to be had here for some deserving group I would think...

Sure...I will pitch in...let me know when you have my work permit ready.

Thank you for you comment. I'm no Pollyanna and I know that such a project would be fraught with Thai bureaucratic hurdles. But I envision this type of endeavor would need to involve individual Thai citizens and Businesses in the area - not just the local Farangs. If the government, the Pattaya Beach front businesses and property investors don't now take the initiative to clean the beaches and adjacent areas - then they may never do it. So for those who have many years and perhaps money invested in Pattaya j- they may just may have to do it - that is - if they want change for the better. I have a friend in Pattaya named Reed - an old Army buddy I served in Thailand with long ago who has a volunteer charity approved by the government. His organization provides assistance to "Remote Schools" in Northern Thailand. His outfit gives school supplies and special items like warm jackets and blankets (for the winter months) to the school children in remote mountain villages around Chiang Mai. I will talk with my friend Reed to find out how to get through the government maze to get a volunteer group government approval with work permits. I will post what I find out. Bottom Line: If no initiative is taken - then someone can just open a new thread next year and everyone can carp about this all over again..

[fakename]

Yeah, this is a favorite topic, because its in everyone's face. Of course if someone picked up the garbage, then others would maybe think its ok to throw garbage on the beach, good for farangs to do some work sometime! Im heading out that way tonight, so will check it out, but today, it was unusually clean, but all depends on the tide and wind.

Hate to see the hassle of getting a work permit, to clean someone elses garbage! How much would that cost?

[Rob8891]

i will never go in the sea around here

unless i fancy a few weeks of work with a bad stomach complaint

I swim in the sea off Pattaya 3,4 sometimes 5 times a day - right at the bottom of Pattaya Klang.

Its lovely, and at this time of year the sea temperature is spot-on. Nothing to worry about, in several years I've never had a stomach infection, skin rash, ear or eye infection.

Reminds me a swimming in the N Sea when I was a kid:

At Skeggy???? You have to be joking. Grew up near there....It was always freezing cold, and a froth blowing in off the sea.....same all along that coast, from Gibraltar Point up to Cleethorpes and all points in between...(but we loved it )...Haven't been back for 40+ years though.....scarred for life!!

[aitch52]

I took a boat trip between Bang Saray and Tony's beach bar on 30th January and returned on New Years Eve. it seemed to me that between Ocean Marina and Bang Saray there was an area where the currents carry the trash and the pollution settles there until it is washed up on the beach. I am not joking there was trash in every square metre of water. Plastics mainly but also many other unidentifiables.

I have never seen so much pollution in such an idyllic bay, and I served in the Royal Navy for 28 years. It is disgraceful the amount of trash being dumped into the ocean. Once past Ocean Marina the waterbound pollution was negligible. I was both saddened and shocked at this state of affairs. Yes Bang Saray is being developed as if there is no tomorrow, we have stayed there many times as it was so nice, clean and quiet. No longer the paradise it once was..

Edited January 3, 2013 by aitch52

[JDGRUEN]

Yeah, this is a favorite topic, because its in everyone's face. Of course if someone picked up the garbage, then others would maybe think its ok to throw garbage on the beach, good for farangs to do some work sometime! Im heading out that way tonight, so will check it out, but today, it was unusually clean, but all depends on the tide and wind.

Hate to see the hassle of getting a work permit, to clean someone elses garbage! How much would that cost?

My idea - as posted (admittedly not easy to achieve) would be to set the example, involve Thai people and business... set up a combined Team - not just a half dozen Farangs walking on the beach... An objective would be to pump up a bit of PR ... bring the problem to the attention of the media and tourist industry in as positive way as possible. Also as posted.. I will be asking a knowledgeable friend about the process, hurdles and cost of setting up some kind of volunteer organization and getting work permits... I suspect this subject has been thoroughly discussed on TV before and would be greatly surprised if some TV members are not resident experts on the process. It could take weeks and months to get the correct answers and set something in motion...

[smedly]

I took a boat trip between Bang Saray and Tony's beach bar on 30th January and returned on New Years Eve. it seemed to me that between Ocean Marina and Bang Saray there was an area where the currents carry the trash and the pollution settles there until it is washed up on the beach. I am not joking there was trash in every square metre of water. Plastics mainly but also many other unidentifiables.

I have never seen so much pollution in such an idyllic bay, and I served in the Royal Navy for 28 years. It is disgraceful the amount of trash being dumped into the ocean. Once past Ocean Marina the waterbound pollution was negligible. I was both saddened and shocked at this state of affairs. Yes Bang Saray is being developed as if there is no tomorrow, we have stayed there many times as it was so nice, clean and quiet. No longer the paradise it once was..

so what can we conclude from this thread - I have my own thoughts on the matter but I think it boils down to one thing - Thais hate falangs, they will take your money and grin at every baht but when it comes to making your experience here a quality "want to come back" shit hot destination they couldn't give a rats ass, they will not clean a beach if it is for falangs, go to a Thai beach and you will see a different picture - still not perfect but an improvement - may I also conclude that I have been on clean beaches here that are disrespected by tourists throwing all kinds of rubbish on the beach when there are bins provided, I'm not going to get into nationalities but I know who they are and from what countries, setting that aside Thais generally don't realise that Pattaya's very existance relies on foreigners - they hate that fact (national pride or whatever) - they would rather we all left our money here and went home, so keeping a clean beach for falangs and looking after visitors is low priority - they really couldn't give a sh..t......eventually that attitude will come back and bite them

if any authority was serious about keeping the city clean there would be heavy fines imposed and enforced for people both falang and Thai for litter

Try dropping litter on a florida beach and you'll wind up in jail

ps I haven't proof read my post so please excuse the spelling and sensibility - I'm sure most people will get my point

[Yahooka]

When I look at the filth, litter that is in Pattaya Bay or Jomtien, I have to remind myself this evidence that Thailand is a developing country--Just like countries in Africa. Many locals are not educated to take care of their litter along with city officials are not willing to provide the correct infrastructure (proper sewage; sewage treatment plants; fining industries or boats that pollute; providing simple things such as trash bins--chained to a tree of course.) Living in 5 different countries around the world, (Africa, Middle East, and Asia) I have discovered one cannot judge a country's development by its towering modern buildings and highways, but how the governments (and locals) take care of their environment along with progress. It is true, Thailand once had beautiful beaches but as development provided quick wealth for some, it also ruined what tourists were attracted to.

I will have to disagree when you compare Thailand to an developing African country.Thailand is now a "modern" industrial country and should have all the possibilities to start to think about it`s duty toward taking care the enviroment !!

But in my years here I (among most others??) have seen an steady worsening when it comes to pollution,waste and right out dirtiness everywhere .

And with corruption,greed,laziness and the "mai pen rai" attitude it will not get better in the foreseable future !!!!

[WhalerJoe]

How many of you people refuse plasic bags at the checkout counter?

[craigt3365]

I was thinking the same thing. I remember beaches in the USA as far back as the earlys and none were anything like what I am seeing in Thailand now. Yes, there were isolated instances (chemicals dumped in a river, etc.), but in the USA the beaches have, in general, been far cleaner than in Thailand. Let me point out that what we can see, while terrible for tourism, if often far less destructive, in terms of health, than what we cannot see (chemicals and assorted micro-waste materials). I am often mystified at Thai mentality. The apparently have no moral obligation to future generations. I am also mystified at tourists who come here, see the reality of the place, and return to swim in the filth (what are they thinking?.......question assumes "thinking").

I lived in Southern California for many years. During the rainy season, it was common to get alerts not to swim in the ocean. Some beaches have permanent signs warning you of the pollution in the water.

The reason the beaches are clean? Big machines groom them every night. I use to live right on the beach. You should have seen it at 6PM on a weekend. Looked like a garbage pit.

One big problem we have here is we live in a bay fed by the Chao Praya. All sorts of garbage gets dumped into that river by Bangkok and up stream communities. It's a global problem, not just here in Thailand.

I've been on isolated beaches in the middle of nowhere and seen heaps of trash all over the beach. A shame what the world is doing to our beautiful oceans. I attached a pic of a beach in Hawaii.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

How many of you people refuse plasic bags at the checkout counter?

Makro dont give out bags at all (I take a cloth carrier bag with me) and Tops bags seem to disintegrate completely after a few weeks exposure to air/light.

In some European countries the distribution of disposable plastic bags at supermarket checkouts is completely banned (thin bags of the type used for fresh produce are allowed, for hygiene reasons).

It's up to governments to oblige people to behave in a reasonable manner. There's no point waiting for people to do it off their own bat, as mostly they wont.

[craigt3365]

How many of you people refuse plasic bags at the checkout counter?

Makro dont give out bags at all (I take a cloth carrier bag with me) and Tops bags seem to disintegrate completely after a few weeks exposure to air/light.

In some European countries the distribution of disposable plastic bags at supermarket checkouts is completely banned (thin bags of the type used for fresh produce are allowed, for hygiene reasons).

It's up to governments to oblige people to behave in a reasonable manner. There's no point waiting for people to do it off their own bat, as mostly they wont.

Tesco gives you extra points if you bring your own bags. We were the first to do this when the program started a year or so ago here. Got something like 5000 points. Even the manager came over to congratulate us!

[smedly]

back home (UK) beaches are tested for water quality and I've seen pristine looking beaches fail the water test and been closed for a season, can you imagine the same type of testing quality control going on here, does anyone think that beaches from Bangkok to Rayong would be fit for swimming - I very much doubt it, and for (as some say here) such a modern country as Thailand that relies on tourism - why are they not testing water quality ? but on the other hand even if they were could you honestly expect them to be trusted ?

Like I said earlier, after being here for nearly nine years I'd have expected progress and improvement and I see the opposite, there are no signs that it's going to get better so I can only assume it will continue to get worse.

[simple1]

I first came to Pattaya in the late 80's and I have to say, that whilst the sea is still polluted by garbage and run off, it has improved somewhat. I remember wanting to swim off Wongamat beach and when wading out looked down to see sodden toilet/tissue paper sticking to my legs, that does not happen anymore.

[bender92]

It really is a shame that such a good location is being ruined, the paper are full of new developments in Bang Saray , looks like the infastructure is not keeping up. This happened in the Med in the early 70's

All those new buildings must flush somewhere!

[bender92]

I first came to Pattaya in the late 80's and I have to say, that whilst the sea is still polluted by garbage and run off, it has improved somewhat. I remember wanting to swim off Wongamat beach and when wading out looked down to see sodden toilet/tissue paper sticking to my legs, that does not happen anymore.

I was at the Beer Garden one rainy day, those big pipes next to it were spewing brown stinky stuff, not very appetizing.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I was mainly talking about "history" and "frequency/intensity" of occurance. Surely you never saw filthy beaches each day like you see here in Thailand. If so, we definitely were in different places. I remember an occasional oil spill, chemical spill and some trash. Yes, machines rake the beaches in the USA, which is a good practice. Yes, we are destroying the oceans and virtually all of the life systems that sustain us. In my mind, it is collective suicide in slow motion. A major problem is what we cannot see with our eyes. As far was what we can see, it is clear plastics are a huge problem. I heard that the City actually collects garbage then takes it out and dumps it in the ocean. Is this actually true?