U K Cautions Citizens After Koh Phangan Killing: Thailand

GentlemanJim · January 3, 2013

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

As quoted above HMG has provided a very specific warning via FCO travel advisory website, repeated below. It is impossible to avoid any possibility of danger, even in the U.K.

"Western tourists have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by gangs in Koh Phangan. These attacks are particularly common around the time of the Full Moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars in Haad Rin on Koh Phangan".

Cant make out from that which side you are on but even if that advise sounds good then I still question the effect or productivity. There are only really 2 things that someone can do off the back of that advice.........either not come to Thailand at all or somehow behave or prepare differently while they are here. Not coming to Thailand wont hardly ever be an option unless the person concerned is an extremely paranoid person or if the general feeling is really really bad (like mass waves of public crime and break out). And of course no one can be in preparation while they are here all of the time in anticipation of a violent situation.

All in all its bad and not very productive advice and I suspect just the normal PR that the British Embassy try to come out with when they cant do anything, which I accept they cant and dont blame them but dont try to pretend you care and you are helping by coming out with PR rubbish that is more damaging. As with many other things that happen in Thailand the British Embassy is quite poor in its performance. I only need to remind readers of how they advised and reported the Red Shirts in Bangkok.

It is just not true that the British Embassy cannot do anything. They can do plenty. For a start they can demand justice where there has been injustice. As someone who has suffered injustice and continues to do so because of the racism in this country and the Thai love Thai mentality, and having advised the Embassy of the situation they are less than interested. In fact given I was being targeted by mafia and had to run away - they would not even expedite a passport for my children. I think there is a great deal they could do just by publishing all the scams against tourists and expats alike and making noises at government level to have these practices dealt with. The fat is they don;t because they are interested in business (no matter the businesses that trade here will be treated in a WHOLLY different manner than a Thai company by the tax office and the VAT office. They will also find gross racism in the Civil Justice system against them - if there is no justice in the law of contract then what basis is that for any business to invest here for contract is the basis of all business.)

If the Embassy had any gumption at all they would be assisting their citizens which I consider to be their job, protecting business by seeking an improvement in the Civil Justice system and monitoring what goes on when they are approached for help by expats living here getting an extremely raw deal. Of course they cannot write the laws but they can put pressure to bear and they can certainly bring all these issues out into the open. They choose not to because they don't want to upset the Thai government for reasons which I am sure they know but which negatively impact in a huge way, the job they really should be doing in the minds of most people. It really is worse than pathetic.

Truly a horrific time for the family of this poor lad whose life has been snuffed out by a scumbag - his whole life ahead of him and devastation for his family and loved ones. It really is too tragic and some international pressure is the only thing these bozos running the country will understand. As for being cautious - what is one supposed to do when people are running around with guns shooting in public places and groups of men are going around raping western women. This is not an isolated incident either - the reaction of the Embassy is as usual grossly sickening and pathetic.

I just get sick to death of ill educated people, feeling that they have a right that their government warns them of everything concerning travel down to whether you should use local tissue to wipe your arse or not. Get a grip for God sake, you are adults. There are a gazzillion pages out on the internet telling you that there are some places to go in Thailand that are complete s**t holes, full moon parties included. If you are traveling 7000 miles particularly with others or a family, but definitely when on your own then there is no excuse for not checking where you are going, I mean even if you are using smart phones.

timewilltell

The Embassy are NOT responsible for you, you chose to travel and live here. They cannot expedite the issue of passports for children because that passport has to go through a certain process. Why didn't you get passports for your children before the emergency? Are they both babes in arms.....i doubt it, or is it just another case of a lazy Brit? What the embassy could have done was issue emergency travel documentation for your children, but in order to do that YOU need to comply with global Foreign Office policy and have a ticket to a destination in the UK for the kids, then....bang you will have the document in a few hours in an emergency. If you couldnt or cant buy flight tickets then why would you expect the embassy to do anything? They are up to their necks in crap enquiries from people like yourself and osiboy who think they are owed a personalized VIP service. Just what do you expect an embassy to do in a country that is inherantly racist and you are the subject of racism? If you think the place is racist and you get the back lash, what are you doing here with your children? This is NOT London where you can call the cops, it is Thailand, and in many respects 40 years behind the UK in terms of society, including racism, do you remember how racist the UK was in the 70's??

Are the two of you aware that the embassy has a guy stationed on Koh Phangan, who is there to help british tourists, the majority of whom are under 25. The guy gives up a vast majority of his OWN time, going around the parties, finding Brits and giving them advice of do's and dont's and also giving his official card if they should get in to trouble, which a lot have done and a lot have been very grateful for the timely intervention of assistance that the card has offered.

The two of you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about. Osiboy, I can only put your post down to 'the time' almost 4am in the morning.

People CHOOSE to go to the full moon/any moon parties, and those people are ADULTS. There is enough information out there for any adult to make a rational decision. What exactly do you want osiboy and timewilltell? Do you want the Ambassador to say 'Koh Phangan is a s**t hole and its too dangerous and we recommend no British citizen steps foot there again? Within two weeks the ensuing diplomatic s**t storm would have all Brits on one week visa's, higher tax rates for all Brit companies and citizens etc etc etc and all for a situation that cannot be legislated for, a poor guy with a lot ahead of him being gunned down by a bad shot. It is tragic enough without the two of you trying to make the Embassy the scapegoat. It is tragic, but the young guy was there and I bet a pound to a pinch of rocking horse s**t, he had read about the issues at the beach parties already. A 22 year old, brought up on social networking and as a young stockbroker armed with every must have young mans gadget, he read the good the bad and the ugly about Koh Phangan and he chose to go. Do you seriously think with that decision making process he would have been influenced at all by a statement something akin to from a headmaster saying "Do not go, it is very very bad, there are drugs and copious amounts of alcoholic beverages", hell a statement of that nature would likely INCREASE the number of under 25's hitting the island.

tragickingdom · January 3, 2013

It is always amazing how consular workers seems to be living on an island themselves. 7 Britons got murdered in Thailand over many years and on a total of 6 million tourists. I bet that more than 7 British tourists get killed a year in the US alone from car jacking or other fun activity sanctioned by the weapon lobby.

800,000 British tourist flock to the Thai beaches, often too drunk and rude to walk. Pointing fingers to Thai society makes them hypocrites. The Russians are losing 10 a month in Pattaya alone...

CrisRMenumate · January 3, 2013

Take a pill people, Koh Phangan is renowned for being a place for drunken and drug accessible parties year round and especially at Full Moon Parties. If you go there you are obviously going to party, get drunk, take other "stimulants" and take risks that will put you in danger or bein the company of people who are going to behave in this way. There is a known danger and recorded instances of brawls, knifings, gun fights, rapes, robberies and drug busts - if you go there you should be prepared that something bad could happen. You wouldn't wander into Corby late at night and not expect some kind of trouble, why should a tourist expect anything different in a place that has recorded warnings from their own government. When tourists check in their luggage they also check in their common sense, many of them forget to pick it up on arrival and put themselves in stupid risks. Sad but true.

KKvampire · January 3, 2013

Well done Mark Kent.maybe an ambassador who's not afraid of upseting Thai gov. I tweeted Mr Kent a few days ago saying he should make statement to this effect. Its a fact the country is becoming more lawless.

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

metisdead · January 3, 2013

A derogatory and inflammatory post and replies have been removed.

Tchooptip · January 3, 2013

Look out TAT.......... people are beginning to notice.

ahh so that explains the robust tourism numbers.......

Record numbers every year, soon the country will be to small to accomadate all the arrivals and they will have to start turning people away. We have all heard of extreme sports, well Thailand could soon lay claim to the hub of extreme tourism.

Not sure, at least still a long way to go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

Tchooptip · January 3, 2013

Take a pill people, Koh Phangan is renowned for being a place for drunken and drug accessible parties year round and especially at Full Moon Parties. If you go there you are obviously going to party, get drunk, take other "stimulants" and take risks that will put you in danger or bein the company of people who are going to behave in this way. There is a known danger and recorded instances of brawls, knifings, gun fights, rapes, robberies and drug busts - if you go there you should be prepared that something bad could happen. You wouldn't wander into Corby late at night and not expect some kind of trouble, why should a tourist expect anything different in a place that has recorded warnings from their own government. When tourists check in their luggage they also check in their common sense, many of them forget to pick it up on arrival and put themselves in stupid risks. Sad but true.

Man for a first post it's a wise one, I totally agree, question of common sense.

Of course people who love this kind of places could hardly follow you

zydeco · January 3, 2013

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

You are describing some place like Mexico, not Thailand. There are a lot of things wrong here. And many situations that take advantage of Westerners. But you don't need to be escorted around in bullet proof limos or sequester yourself behind the walls of designated tourist havens, as is the case with Acapulco.

stiggy · January 3, 2013

The Smile others are talking about is just a pre-programmed Thai reaction amongst the less well educated.

Anyone who has lived here long enough would of countless times been meet with either a fake smile.Or worse fits of nervous giggles when they, (Nervous Thais) are in a bad or uncomfortable situation.

Hes just been caught shooting dead a British Tourist.He will know due to the kickings he has probably already had, that he's in a world of shit and rightly so.

belidofan · January 3, 2013

Major news in Australia also, heres a link to the re enactment. actually two stories in this clip.

http://news.ninemsn....death-in-phuket

The suspect has quite a contented smug smile on his face, probably thinking nothing will come of it as it was just an accident. My condolences to the family.

that's what they call here : an honest mistake face

h5kaf · January 3, 2013

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

Oh come on. You are way over the top on this. There are obviously some safety issues related to Thailand, but foreign governments have all provided the necessary cautions and advisories. it is up to the individual visitor to exercise sober judgement. Do you really think that if the warning was any stronger, visitors would listen? The likelihood of a random killing like this is remote and probably far less than back in the UK. A foreign government cannot do any more than what has been done, unless you want the UK to send warships and a garrison to protect its citizens when they go drinking? On one hand we have people complaining of the nanny state and then we have people complaining there is not enough nanny state. If you really want the nasty truth, any prudent sentient person would give koh Phagnan a pass, and yet hundreds of thousands do not. If the visitor doesn't want to be cautious there is nothing the UK government can do. The warnings are all over the place.

Various Embassies have warned about danger in Thailand, and especially about the danger of riding a motor cycle when not accustomed to this practice. Yet thousands come here and ride unfamiliar motor cycles and hundreds are killed. The warnings and advice from Embassies are ignored so why should the far lower risk of being accidentally shot be taken any more seriously. As geriatrickid has said, "A foreign government cannot do any more than what has been done". It is sad that many posters on this site seem to relish every opportunity to 'government' or 'embassy' bash.

bkk_mike · January 3, 2013

Isn't Thailand already classified as the most dangerous tourist destination for Brits? Simply on the basis of the ratio between the number of deaths and the number of visitors. (Admittedly I think that's mainly down to traffic accidents - a combination of holiday makers on motorbikes with no helmets, thinking that UK rights of way rules mean anything in Thailand, and the lack of a decent ambulance network.)

Maybe the UK should do the same as the US, and list the deaths of citizens abroad, showing the cause of death. Admittedly, it might not help. It's not like the information on parts of Thailand being dangerous isn't out there, it's just not something people tend to look at prior to booking a holiday.

My condolences to the family, but at least they know what's happened. There are other cases where people have simply gone missing. As someone else said, they know he was having fun, enjoying himself, when he died suddenly. It might not be much of a consolation, but hopefully it's something.

ricardofel · January 3, 2013

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

Absolutely correct! Stay away from Thailand...go to Bali! No problems during our 11 days there.

tommytitfull · January 3, 2013

Thailand yes beware of the land of smiles,Muggings,rapes jumper"s,shootings,traffic accidents more so on bikes.

drugged,bad hotel cleaning,All have and will kill you every year it happen"s in Thailand so why not put that on british embassy website.

I am sure i have missed out other way"s farang"s die in Thailand.Just becareful where you go in Thailand and what you do to keep save

never let your thinking it will be ok just think would you do it back home?????I wish all a safe happy new year.

h5kaf · January 3, 2013

Regardless of the varying opinions expressed there are two salient and undenyable scenarios.

One is that The British Embasy through the Foreign Office has a mandate to provide information and support to its nationals abroad. Currently this support is minimal and they go out of their way in order not to rock the boat. I have been an expat for the pat 40 years in one country or another and I have seen their service and attitude wither to the level it is at today.pathetic !

The second point is that anyone who does not accept that this is indeed a dangerous country is either in denial or on prescription medicine. Violent crime, rape, road carnage, drug abuse, firearm abuse,child abuse,rampant corruption and scams and extorsion occur regularly with little or no chance of retribution and even less oversight from the embassy. The local media gives these stories the one day wonder treatment and then they are forgotten.

The henious fact is that these things go on daily under our very noses and there is nothing we can do to stop it and very little in the way of justice. It is what it is... and by all likelyhood it will remain so.

Not sure that the first paragraph is warranted given that information is out there and support depends on what can realistically be done. HOWEVER I have rarely seen such an accurate assessment of Thailand as is contained in the second paragraph. It is what it is, so we either learn to live with it and cope or we leave. I can't see anything changing in my lifetime, or for many decades to come. Fertile ground for the whingers on this forum!!

OzMick · January 3, 2013

The full moon party has become a "must do" for younger visitors to Thailand. I warn anybody planning to attend that they are diving into a pool of sharks, and list as many scams as I can remember - but will never manage to cover the full range. Some of the most expensive are run by the BIB, so don't expect help there.

I regularly see returnees getting stitched up from broken glass, but it takes a death to turn a spotlight on the place. Be warned, those who complain too loudly or often will attract very unwelcome attention - don't get between a Thai and a lucrative income source.

Jim walker · January 3, 2013

Everyone who has lived here in Thailand for more than 10 years knows it has become much more unsafe for tourists now, not a day goes past now without the international media revealing a story that another tourist has been murdered or raped, and as for the British Embassy’s warning by Mark Kent another public school boy trying to warn tourists about a country that he knows absolutely nothing about and has never lived in the real Thai country, going to parties at Thai politicians residences is not mixing with Thais and understanding how normal Thais live or how they continue to survive in Thailand. Having a bit of street savvy would be far more useful than listening to anyone from the British Embassy giving you impractical child like advice about living or travelling in Thailand.

Arkady · January 3, 2013

Regardless of the varying opinions expressed there are two salient and undenyable scenarios.

One is that The British Embasy through the Foreign Office has a mandate to provide information and support to its nationals abroad. Currently this support is minimal and they go out of their way in order not to rock the boat. I have been an expat for the pat 40 years in one country or another and I have seen their service and attitude wither to the level it is at today.pathetic !

The second point is that anyone who does not accept that this is indeed a dangerous country is either in denial or on prescription medicine. Violent crime, rape, road carnage, drug abuse, firearm abuse,child abuse,rampant corruption and scams and extorsion occur regularly with little or no chance of retribution and even less oversight from the embassy. The local media gives these stories the one day wonder treatment and then they are forgotten.

The henious fact is that these things go on daily under our very noses and there is nothing we can do to stop it and very little in the way of justice. It is what it is... and by all likelyhood it will remain so.

Not sure that the first paragraph is warranted given that information is out there and support depends on what can realistically be done. HOWEVER I have rarely seen such an accurate assessment of Thailand as is contained in the second paragraph. It is what it is, so we either learn to live with it and cope or we leave. I can't see anything changing in my lifetime, or for many decades to come. Fertile ground for the whingers on this forum!!

There are some decent people at the British Embassy but you have to remember that it is now effectively a trade mission and only bare bones resources are allocated to low priority things like consular services now. They can't even issue you a passport any more and the visa services are just about completely outsourced. The consular services that remain are now provided almost exclusively by locally engaged staff on low salaries with minimal input from accredited British diplomats because most have disappeared in cost cuts. There isn't even a defence attache in Bkk any more, not that many of us care about that.

In contrast the US Embassy still has a large number of vice-consuls who are career diplomats fully trained in Washington. Not sure whether they do a better job or not but you never hear of US citizens being abandoned to die by their embassy, as is the sad lot of some unfortunate Brits in Thailand. Examples would be the teacher whose school had stolen his social fund contributions, so he had no medical coverage and was left to die of heart disease after the embassy refused help. Another that had a happier ending was the man who suffered from amnesia and was left to die by the honorary consul in Pattaya chained naked to the bars of a police cell. He was rescued and nursed back to health by an angel of mercy and it was later discovered after he regained his memory that he had plenty of money to live on in his bank account but the police had mistaken him for a penniless farang vagrant who was of no use to them, a view shared by the honorary British consul and the embassy.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Arkady

unanimosity · January 3, 2013

Interesting pic, the bad guy gets to wear the body armour.

Boy, is that a contrite expression if I ever saw one!

It's all a joke, he knows it because he didn't kill a person, he killed a farang. I don't think there any Thai laws against that.

First, RIP young man and condolences to the family.

Maybe the smug smile of the perp is a window to a reality consistent with your post, caballero bendejo. Why? Because how--if there were shots being exchanged between two groups--did the authorities single out this smiling perp? Where is the substantiation of this "battle," whether by witnesses or spent shell casings? It was dark. How could the perp know a round from some "homemade" gun took this lad's life?

Where are the members of the referred to perp's group? Where is the other group? If they can be identified as groups, how many were there and where are they? Are reasonable minds supposed to believe that two groups of people just happended to be firing shots at each other without some form of provocation or feud history? If there was a "battle," what instigated it and has that explanation been confirmed or challenged by others in the group(s)? The absence of facts is deafening. The absence of an investigation is deafening.

Where are the journalists? Has even one of them investigated to make certain that this smug perp was indeed at the scene of the murder? Has even one journalist pursued or ruled out the possibility that this "miracle" perp that has been produced with no apparent investigation may be getting a free pass for taking one for the Thai tourism club, for taking the fall for this murder labeled an accident in exchange for his get out of jail free card? BTW, it is not an accident when people illegally bring and fire guns in public places and an innocent bystander gets killed. Every member of both supposed "groups" is culpable because any innocent suspect would never take the fall without ballistic tests to ascertain whose firearm may match the the lletal round. No defense attorney would ever allow such supposition to stand unchallenged. And why would anybody have a homemade gun when there seem to be more guns than people in Thailand? Is it because a "homemade" gun lends to the perception of randomness and inaccuracy in support of an "accident" script?

Arkady · January 3, 2013

The full moon party has become a "must do" for younger visitors to Thailand. I warn anybody planning to attend that they are diving into a pool of sharks, and list as many scams as I can remember - but will never manage to cover the full range. Some of the most expensive are run by the BIB, so don't expect help there.

I regularly see returnees getting stitched up from broken glass, but it takes a death to turn a spotlight on the place. Be warned, those who complain too loudly or often will attract very unwelcome attention - don't get between a Thai and a lucrative income source.

Never been to the full moon party or Haad Rin but the last time in Koh Phangan I saw a farang girl in her early 20s covered from head to toes in bandages from a motor bike accident being carried like a sack of potatoes from the back of a pick-up to the ferry. She was one of the lucky ones because she was alive. I hope you put renting motor bikes on your list of things to avoid.

GentlemanJim · January 3, 2013

A licenced handgun will cost you between 50-80K with a discount for Government workers. A unlicenced black market gun you may get for 5-10K , but that is still a Kings Ransom to many Thais. The alternative is a 'home made' weapon, it clearly does the job as has been effectively displayed and would be about 2-3K. Both the latter options carry a 3 year sentence just for possession.

hgma · January 3, 2013

The only comment I want to make is adressed at the parents, friends and lovedones.

My family offer their sincere condolances to you.

HGMA

Arkady · January 3, 2013

Interesting pic, the bad guy gets to wear the body armour.

Boy, is that a contrite expression if I ever saw one!

It's all a joke, he knows it because he didn't kill a person, he killed a farang. I don't think there any Thai laws against that.

First, RIP young man and condolences to the family.

Maybe the smug smile of the perp is a window to a reality consistent with your post, caballero bendejo. Why? Because how--if there were shots being exchanged between two groups--did the authorities single out this smiling perp? Where is the substantiation of this "battle," whether by witnesses or spent shell casings? It was dark. How could the perp know a round from some "homemade" gun took this lad's life?

Where are the members of the referred to perp's group? Where is the other group? If they can be identified as groups, how many were there and where are they? Are reasonable minds supposed to believe that two groups of people just happended to be firing shots at each other without some form of provocation or feud history? If there was a "battle," what instigated it and has that explanation been confirmed or challenged by others in the group(s)? The absence of facts is deafening. The absence of an investigation is deafening.

Where are the journalists? Has even one of them investigated to make certain that this smug perp was indeed at the scene of the murder? Has even one journalist pursued or ruled out the possibility that this "miracle" perp that has been produced with no apparent investigation may be getting a free pass for taking one for the Thai tourism club, for taking the fall for this murder labeled an accident in exchange for his get out of jail free card? BTW, it is not an accident when people illegally bring and fire guns in public places and an innocent bystander gets killed. Every member of both supposed "groups" is culpable because any innocent suspect would never take the fall without ballistic tests to ascertain whose firearm may match the the lletal round. No defense attorney would ever allow such supposition to stand unchallenged. And why would anybody have a homemade gun when there seem to be more guns than people in Thailand? Is it because a "homemade" gun lends to the perception of randomness and inaccuracy in support of an "accident" script?

This is a very good point. In more developed jurisdictions the police would hunt down all members of both gangs involved in the altercation and make sure that the right punk was charged as the shooter and see if others were also culpable of aiding abetting or being accessories to murder. For example did anyone help the suspect escape or shelter him, urge him to shoot or pass him the gun. There should also be a detailed investigation into the source of the home made gun and the ammunition used, as well as thorough searches of all other gang members homes and and their associates all over the country for guns, ammunition and illegal substances. By closing the close after extracting a confession the police are winking at the other gang members and all their associates that it is OK for them to continue their criminal activities and carry guns as long they continue to pay off the cops.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Arkady

Tchooptip · January 3, 2013

Interesting pic, the bad guy gets to wear the body armour.

Boy, is that a contrite expression if I ever saw one!

It's all a joke, he knows it because he didn't kill a person, he killed a farang. I don't think there any Thai laws against that.

Major news in Australia also, heres a link to the re enactment. actually two stories in this clip.

http://news.ninemsn....death-in-phuket

The suspect has quite a contented smug smile on his face, probably thinking nothing will come of it as it was just an accident. My condolences to the family.

Please keep in mind that smiles in SE Asia do not always convey happiness, joy, or smugness. They are also seen during times of embarrassment, stress, conflict, or emotional turmoil. I see this all the time in my work (which, in part, involves putting people under stress for assessment purposes). I have no idea what's going through this guy's head (though I don't see the eye-creasing associated with a happy smile), and so we should hesitate to draw inferences from his facial expression. And we should be very hesitant to draw inferences from this about Thai people or Thailand in general. Then again, this is Thai Visa, right, and Thailand bashing is always good sport around here it seems...

The picture being of good quality its possible to zoom his face full screen...does not look like a "contented smug smile" any more, so you are probably absolutely right, at least I suppose so

Mroovah · January 3, 2013

Yeah, it just reminded me one of the number of news from london, when polish girl got killed by cross fire between gangs in SE London. Should people be advice not to go to UK's capital by polish ambasador in the UK?

berto1000 · January 3, 2013

Since 2008 I usually spend in Thailand 4-5weeks per year and I have many Thai friends, from very healthy Thai to some almost poor people. I spend my time in relaxing places in the South or up in the North, but also spend 1week every year in BKK and another one in some party place such as Phuket or Pattaya, well know for being tourist traps.

Although I have never been involved in anything violent I have seen so many scams I can't even count and MANY bad episodes: Thais beating up Westeners 5-6 against 1, Security/Bouncers treathening Westners customers if they were not paying an unfair billed that was pumped up for no reason, Police officers that had be be bribed or they would have put in cell for some days a guy because a girl (a drunk bargirl) accused him to have stolen her cigarettes!!! A friend of mine, Thai girl 36 y.o. owns a club and EVERY week pays small fees to the Police (15 to 40euros, depending on who is the officer..): I know it for sure because one time she was away I was the one using her agenda and checking how much "I owe" to every Police officer that was visiting the club.

Regarding other comments made about the Full Moon Party: it's true that the enviroment is not so good and whoever goes there should be aware of the risks. The main problem is that the law applied to Farangs is TOTALLY different to the one applied to Thai. If you are caught smoking weed, you are in deep s**t; Thais can do what they want. To prove this, whoever is in Bangkok should just go to check with his own eyes in some of the clubs where rich Thais go: Narcissus for example (aka NARZ) seems a drugs supermarket. They dont even hide to use everything u can imagine (coke on the table, meth, extasy). When I was there I was VERY nervous and ask my friends how that was possible: they replied me that Police neve go there and when they decide to check the place, the owner is advised in advance so everything is clean when the police comes. Also, unless is a very serious crime with a lot of public exposure, Police would never start a case against rich Thai families. This was told me by my friends, all Thai but it's pretty well known.

I am 29, I love travelling to Thailand and hope that I wont be unlucky as the poor Brit guy (RIP...), but I wish that tourist would have the same rights of the locals, could express their opinion withouth the risk of being beaten up and not been the favourite target of scams.

osiboy · January 3, 2013

Look out TAT.......... people are beginning to notice.

ahh so that explains the robust tourism numbers.......

Record numbers every year, soon the country will be to small to accomadate all the arrivals and they will have to start turning people away. We have all heard of extreme sports, well Thailand could soon lay claim to the hub of extreme tourism.

yeah , why not tell farangs its paint balling but SURPRISE SURPRISE the thais have REAL BULLETS !

tinfoilhat · January 3, 2013

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

Oh come on. You are way over the top on this. There are obviously some safety issues related to Thailand, but foreign governments have all provided the necessary cautions and advisories. it is up to the individual visitor to exercise sober judgement. Do you really think that if the warning was any stronger, visitors would listen? The likelihood of a random killing like this is remote and probably far less than back in the UK. A foreign government cannot do any more than what has been done, unless you want the UK to send warships and a garrison to protect its citizens when they go drinking? On one hand we have people complaining of the nanny state and then we have people complaining there is not enough nanny state. If you really want the nasty truth, any prudent sentient person would give koh Phagnan a pass, and yet hundreds of thousands do not. If the visitor doesn't want to be cautious there is nothing the UK government can do. The warnings are all over the place.

I agree, which is the reason why I think that if all an Embassy can do after an event like this is give unproductive advice such as "be careful" then it should just not bother. "be careful" can apply to anywhere and does not help in the slightest. Only knowing or being prewarned of a very generic danger in a vast area does not help you at all in preventing possible situations.

The vast majority of violent incidents such as this shooting are Thai on Thai. The biggest danger to foreigners arises when they attend large gatherings which include significant numbers of Thais and perhaps any government warning should stress this. In Pattaya there are constant news reports of shootings etc., but these are largely confined to the early hours of the morning in areas where groups/gangs of Thais congregate such as disco's and karaoke pubs. There is no doubt that life is cheap here and resorting to guns or knives to settle alcohol-fuelled minor disputes is, regrettably, not uncommon.

i am unsure as to why people want to insist that this is intentional violence against foreigners.

it is not without precedent, Billy V, a bangkok dj was winged a few years back by an angry drunk thai who intended to shoot the doorman who denied him entry to solo on samui.

4-6 am at the full moon can be a particularly dangerous time, especially between rival thai gangs or individuals.

The yaba and money has been coming fast and tempers flare easily. things do not go well for people caught in the middle.

I have seen people bottled over talking to thee wrong girls, long standing feud or debts violently settled and new offences committed.

For any one with their wits about them, it is fairly obvious who to avoid, and when they are best avoided.

that doesn't make it any better, but there is no need to make it any worse either

Edited January 3, 2013 by tinfoilhat

Steely Dan · January 3, 2013

Look out TAT.......... people are beginning to notice.

ahh so that explains the robust tourism numbers.......

Point taken, but so had Yugoslavia. As for the remote chance of coming to grief on holiday here, it would seem that the chances are still high compared to almost all other tourist destinations as far as UK citizens are concerned.

zaZa9 · January 3, 2013

"There are risks in going anywhere and I think Thailand is certainly not completely trouble-free"

Hes an observant fellow , your Mr Kent ....

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