Foreigners Attack Hazing Ritual At Thai Universities

[BradinAsia]

you go to uni to learn, not have some idiot make you do things you dont want to. I realize it may be a tradition but we are above it and dont need people to belittle others on a whim, in some countries it is even illegal. I know if someone tried to make me do any of this crap they would end up on their backs with a few bruises, it is bullying no matter how innocent you think it is.

True that. I think in Thailand however, at least the first or first two years of university are kind of treated like an extension of high school whereas in the west university is a completely different game to high school. Suddenly bullying becomes almost non-existant because you don't know the people around you and you barely have to associate with them unlike in high school. Not only that, but at university you are free to express yourself and nobody will bat an eyelid, even on day one. Yet just months earlier doing something like that may have made you a target for bullies. Sounds to me like undergraduates at Thai universities forget that high school is over and university isn't compulsory nor should it involve the same set of values etc. as high school did.

The eastern academic tradition is different than the western historically. There was never an Eastern enlightement period or declaration of independence.

As a student of Asian History, I beg to differ. Japan had it's Meiji Restoration in the late 19th century and a second "enlightenment" period after being defeated in WW2. China began a period of "great awakening" with Deng Xiaoping in the early 1980s.

[Passiebeer]

I see this tradition every year and think it's a great tradition. I never see anything bad. I think if the foreigners don't like it they should go study in another country. This a Thai culture.

Copied from overseas, for sure...

[Chao Lao Beach]

What is hazing?

[zydeco]

Something somewhere has gone wrong. So, ban it everywhere. We must have perfect safety. No risks. Outlaw anything and everything that could possibly hurt someone or make them feel bad. Eliminate risk and we'll all be able to live forever. So, what do we work ourselves into a lather over next?

Edited January 5, 2013 by zydeco

[seajae]

Any system that tries to make oneself feel better, higher, more respected by pushing others down instead of elevating oneself, harms...

Obviously you have never been in a tight knit group and had to earn your way. This builds unity and pride as they said. If you are too whimpy to get out of your comfort zone. It's NOT about those doing the hazing, it's about those having to go through it.

It isn;t about how the people doing the hazing feel. It isn;t about making then feel better, it is about the new guys showing they will put up with some hardship and charactor building. Stop being so whimpy, were creating a bunch of nerds.

I spent several years in the army, you couldnt get a tighter knit group but if anyone tried to do any of the sh*t these idiots and you are saying is fine they were severely reprimanded. Seems like the omly ones that think its ok are the those too young to realize the problems it causes. Maybe when you grow up you will understand that making others suffer just so you can get your jollies isnt funny, mate, you really are sprouting sh*t.

[chooka]

What is hazing?

Hazing is the practice of rituals and other activities involving harassment, abuse or humiliation used as a way of initiating a person into a group. Hazing is seen in many different types of social groups, including gangs, sports teams, schools, military units, workplaces and fraternities.

Hope that helps,

Edited January 5, 2013 by chooka

[crazydrummerpauly]

Lol - what a pathetic bunch of whiners (the "foreign" students). Of course "American" universities would NEVER do anything to show pride in their school, or sports team(s), or fellow students. Shame on those Thai schools that expect freshmen to SING A SONG !

The HORROR of it all !! Off with the heads of those that show ANY pride or have ANY school spirit or follow ANY traditions !! They should ALL respect AMERICAN traditions at their THAI schools !!!!

Well perhaps the press are doing a little toning down here to 'protect' their institution and all that. This is not about students singing songs,

1. Female students forced to perform simulated oral sex on senior male students.

2. A young man died after being forced to drink huge amounts of water.

3. Some male students having to dip their testicles in chilli paste and then having their pubic hair set alight.

4. A student committing suicide after being humiliated during 'hazing'.

5. A student having his back stenciled with the college logo and then the paint was set alight! Nice!! Lots of school bonding here eh! Bet he will remember his school for the rest of his life, so will his wife and kids every time they see his back.

So............its nothing to do with singing songs, it is to do with bullying and humiliation, nobody gives a crap about singing songs. Are they still pathetic whiners Kerryd? Is it still a sarcastic shock and horror from you? If someone did that to my son above, I would end up doing jail time!

Is that a yahboo sucks Daiwill60? I think it's you that needs to get a life, not the critics.

Thanks for taking the time to post this GJ.

[PoodMaiDai]

School is for learning. End of story.

[ErwinH]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Well, overall that's your opinion which your entitled to, and which seems to be based on your experience at one university.

Thailand does actually have more than one university. My Thai son went to a Thai uni (no name) where these 'ceremonies' were totally and absolutely banned and students were well informed that any attempts by students to conduct any form of such cermonies either on or off campus would mean instant severe shaming, publication of photos, and instant officially recorded dismissal.

Why? Because of a previous violent death (held under water until drowned). The perpetrators all pleaded that it was tradition and just an accident, therefore all OK. They actually went to jail.

Several others in this thread have said that non-attendance just delayed the hazing.

I agree that hazing is a serious problem, not just isolated to Thailand, but as a global issue (I know I hear a lot more in the news about sexual misconduct and deaths due to hazing in the US than I do here, and I'm sure it happens everywhere). But that image and the post - there is no hazing. I just don't get where that got pulled out of thin air.

What's going on in the Facebook post is a simple traditional ceremony that I'm 99% sure the younger students organized themselves. It's completely optional, no one is forced to be there and no one is forced to cheer. I'm super confused on how a "traditional" cheering ceremony got spun around into a hazing act. They might be encouraged to go by their friends and peers, but no one is dragged by their collar to these events. No one is penalized by not going. It just blows my mind how one could take that post and turn it into something so negative and the polar opposite of what is really happening. It also has nothing to do with SOTUS or hazing or blah blah.

It's simply the same as at an American graduation ceremony where you cheer on your friend as their name is called to pick up a diploma.

Suddenly changed your opinion?

Suddenly it's just about cheering whilst your friend picks up his diploma.

If death or serious injury happens, regardless of what country, regardless of so called 'traditions' etc etc., it is NOT OK. How can it be OK?

You might like to put yourself in the shoes of the parents and other family members of the youngsters who have been murdered and maimed by these acts.

Would you be willing to just brush it aside, with a 'maiphen rai, just some innocent traditional fun?'

Why even bother commenting on this nitwit's opinion. Did you miss that part about what he "learned" whilst at university? When perpetrators feel the need to be defensive, then you know a nerve has been hit. He was probably involved in such "activities", thus the plethora of crap he wrote above.

[ErwinH]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Before commenting on someone else's grasp of the English language, reassess your own post first. Atrocious grammar. It's painfully embarrassing.

[salty]

Does this "tradition" in many countries ensure a continuing supply of overgrown schoolboys?

[GentlemanJim]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Before commenting on someone else's grasp of the English language, reassess your own post first. Atrocious grammar. It's painfully embarrassing.

ErwinH

I would like to say welcome, but what always amazes me is how some people browse these forums and then eventually join with the clear intent that their only contributions should be to slag off other forum members. You clearly display no intent to contribute anything to the forum, so why not take your personal attack attitude from your first post and your pathetic spelling and grammar police attitude from your second post and crawl back under whatever rock you hide or go back to whatever forum you normally frequent. With all the range of posts on here I find it strange that Hyperion alone has done so much to upset you that you would go to the effort of registering to make two such inane comments.

Edited January 6, 2013 by GentlemanJim

[tominbkk]

I'd rather poke hot moo ping sticks into my eye than be forced to respect somebody.

Most (but not all) Thai people love and expect to be subjugated by those ranked higher than them. Feeds their victim mentality.

Edited January 6, 2013 by tominbkk

[waders123]

Hazing has no positive basis or advantage in human society. Much less in improving students in their search for higher education. It simply is but another way for the older students to seek revenge for what happened to them when they were freshmen. When I was a freshman we were forced, by the school, to wear dresses and if any student didn't show up for that “special day” then they were suspended from school. When they returned they were tortured by the older students with the approval of the school administration. We were kicked, spit on, and ruffed up at the will of the upper classman.

The word hazing is another way of saying bullying. Now you see students striking out and killing because of hazing/bulling practices and still some schools and citizens believe it is a "right of passive" and/or necessary for all students to endure to improve their educational process. This is arcadian thinking, not progressive thinking. I say stop bullying and start educating.

[Baerboxer]

I'm sorry who are these idiots again? As long as the hazing doesn't go too far as to endanger someone's life, it's okay.

Hazing is a tradition that isn't exclusive to universities in Thailand. Why doesn't this moron go criticise someone else first?

In America these are what we would call the treehugging liberals, the same people who think fishing is animal abuse.

Singing in public? The horror of it all. I use to make them put thier underwear on thier head and take a leap of the high dive. After the beer we drank, nobody really cared or were embarrassed. Though cases do happen where jerks take it too far. But what I see it's a joke.

Forcing girls to simulate oral sex and putting bananas down your pants, spitting in peoples mouths, making girls strip in public - hilarious! Sound like a Japanese game show eh?

Hazing is bullying which often gets out of hand as people try to out do one another or develop there own "agendas". Most societies and organizations value team building and the sense of belonging but have long since outlawed the outdated bullying techniques to achieve it. The miltary, schools, universities and media all run anti-bullying campaigns.

Guess you see them all as "tree hugging liberals". Much better to go back to the days when uni students fought duels, bullying was relentless and women fazed daily sexual harrasment. All character building eh?

[seajae]

the only people that can see nothing wrong with hazing are those that are so insecure they need to force their"manliness" on everyone else and those who's minds have never climbed out of the gutter, they still think with their little heads. Where the majority of adults can see the problems this crap causes these people are just too ignorant and stupid to see it because they think it is "funny" for people to be brutalized, sexually mollested, maimed and killed. Anyone trying to protect the rights to haze are bogans that have never grown up, they would probably be the first ones to run if they thought someone was going to hit them back too, all gutless cowards.

[ErwinH]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Before commenting on someone else's grasp of the English language, reassess your own post first. Atrocious grammar. It's painfully embarrassing.

ErwinH

I would like to say welcome, but what always amazes me is how some people browse these forums and then eventually join with the clear intent that their only contributions should be to slag off other forum members. You clearly display no intent to contribute anything to the forum, so why not take your personal attack attitude from your first post and your pathetic spelling and grammar police attitude from your second post and crawl back under whatever rock you hide or go back to whatever forum you normally frequent. With all the range of posts on here I find it strange that Hyperion alone has done so much to upset you that you would go to the effort of registering to make two such inane comments.

Another pathetic nitwit. One of those who come to Thailand and think it is an extension of their own country. Typical.

[gl555]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Before commenting on someone else's grasp of the English language, reassess your own post first. Atrocious grammar. It's painfully embarrassing.

ErwinH

I would like to say welcome, but what always amazes me is how some people browse these forums and then eventually join with the clear intent that their only contributions should be to slag off other forum members. You clearly display no intent to contribute anything to the forum, so why not take your personal attack attitude from your first post and your pathetic spelling and grammar police attitude from your second post and crawl back under whatever rock you hide or go back to whatever forum you normally frequent. With all the range of posts on here I find it strange that Hyperion alone has done so much to upset you that you would go to the effort of registering to make two such inane comments.

Another pathetic nitwit. One of those who come to Thailand and think it is an extension of their own country. Typical.

I can see a ban incoming!

[InActionMan]

Lol - what a pathetic bunch of whiners (the "foreign" students). Of course "American" universities would NEVER do anything to show pride in their school, or sports team(s), or fellow students. Shame on those Thai schools that expect freshmen to SING A SONG !

The HORROR of it all !! Off with the heads of those that show ANY pride or have ANY school spirit or follow ANY traditions !! They should ALL respect AMERICAN traditions at their THAI schools !!!!

It can and normally goes way beyond singing a song.

Quite right. I have worked at a rural university and at the start of the new academic year freshmen were met at the bus station by students from the faculty they were to join and in a party atmosphere. The hazing took place later on campus and could be out and out bullying much enjoyed by the seniors. There were always attempts at justification starting with it was copied from the USA to good natured fun and installation of so called culture but it's not fun to see students arrive one day and have to be persuaded not to leave the next

[GentlemanJim]

Cheering = Hazing? Da fug did I just read?

I'm not sure if many posters here have actually been to a Thai university as a student and done this cheering. It certainly isn't hazing and I think that idiot of an admin needs to learn a little bit more English. The way he worded it would make anyone not integrated in the student culture out here not understand what exactly is going on.

None of those students are forced to do their "boom" cheers. No one is even forced to be at the ceremony. This is not hazing. And it is extremely fun! Everyone that goes has a great time, and yes, it brings students, new and old together and with a ton of spirit. I've met some of my best friends at these things. If you don't want to be at this ceremony, you don't have to be. Bullying... psh.

I agree that overall the Thai universities do a piss poor job preparing their students for whats out there. I did a year at Webster University, then a year at Bangkok University. Webster I spent at least an hour or two on homework and studying a day. I spent maybe an hour per semester preparing for tests because it was just at a much lower level. It was great fun, though, and I met a lot of neat and creative people.

Thai university culture is very interesting when you get into it. I missed out the whole US college kegger beer pong party culture, but I don't think I mind. There was always something going on in campus in BU, things to do, great people, students and teachers to mingle with. Cheering squad, sports days, culture trips - and the female attire who could forget! Haha.

All in all, the Page posted used poor wording and got highly misunderstood. I don't think he understood that hazing is typically not a word with a positive resonance. People focused on that word rather than doing their research and it got blown out of hand.

Before commenting on someone else's grasp of the English language, reassess your own post first. Atrocious grammar. It's painfully embarrassing.

ErwinH

I would like to say welcome, but what always amazes me is how some people browse these forums and then eventually join with the clear intent that their only contributions should be to slag off other forum members. You clearly display no intent to contribute anything to the forum, so why not take your personal attack attitude from your first post and your pathetic spelling and grammar police attitude from your second post and crawl back under whatever rock you hide or go back to whatever forum you normally frequent. With all the range of posts on here I find it strange that Hyperion alone has done so much to upset you that you would go to the effort of registering to make two such inane comments.

Another pathetic nitwit. One of those who come to Thailand and think it is an extension of their own country. Typical.

Nice posting trend, you should make a lot of friends here. If you think that imposing a realistic civilised standard on a country that stops young adults being killed, maimed, abused and humiliated is the rantings of a nitwit then I feel very very sorry for you. I assume/hope you have no children.

[I Like Thai]

I'd rather poke hot moo ping sticks into my eye than be forced to respect somebody.

Most (but not all) Thai people love and expect to be subjugated by those ranked higher than them. Feeds their victim mentality.

That's a victim mentality you have

[Lucie]

My (Thai) husband went to university in Bangkok about 20 years ago. He told me about the "freshers initiation week" or whatever it's called. He had no experience of the violence that sadly seems to occur at some Thai universities, and he told me that all the activities during the week were "challenging but fun". But the activities he described still disturb me, as they all involved the younger students surrendering all sense of power to the older students. Although he says everyone enjoyed them, I think it's very sad, and quite worrying, that young people find these rituals so enjoyable. I mean - a week of them??!!

They were also given a set of rules, which included things like how to wear your uniform, how to greet an older student in the faculty, and how to greet students in other faculties. And one of the rules was that they must never go anywhere without another first year.

My husband didn't like many of these rules, so ignored them when he wanted to. He was then summoned to a meeting with the older students, who told him that the rules were for his own good, so that he could make friends and feel at home as soon as possible. He vaguely accepted this explanation, but I still have a problem with it. These seniors didn't hit him, brand him, strip him or do anything to endanger his safety, but they robbed him and all the first years of their right to choose how to live their university life. They took away their right to individuality, personal space and the opportunity for decision-making. Thai students, having come through a restrictive secondary education, should, once they get to university level, be encouraged to grow up and choose their own activities, friends and lifestyle. The fact that so many of them enjoyed the rituals suggests that their education to date had done exactly what it set out to do - create people who follow rules.

[Briggsy]

Thank you Lucie for that very informative and insightful post.

I think you have touched upon a point that often crops up. Individual freedoms, as we know them in the West, are routinely curtailed for members of Thai society (i.e. Thais, not really foreigners living in Thailand). Some people describe this as a transfer of power from individuals to 'society as a whole'. I see it as a gross inequity in the power balance between those in authority who hold power and the subordinates who do not hold power.

[katana]

Thais seem to call these fresher initiation ceremonies GITJAGAM RAP NAWNG กิจกรรมรับน้อง.

Searching on Google with this phrase turns up more pics:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.d2k&biw=1440&bih=718&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N

[wellred]

Some nasty pics there.

[SparklingCascades]

Much ado about nothing.