Finding Reliable Domestic Staff...that Stay.

[Phronesis]

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html

[elektrified]

A friend of mine always complained he could never find anyone good to work in his home in Chiang Mai and solved the problem by hiring a girl from the Philippines. I don't know how he sorted the visa, WP, and so forth but I'm quite sure he had a lawyer sort it out for him. I think she's been working for him about 3 years now and he's quite pleased.

[CMHomeboy78]

A friend of mine always complained he could never find anyone good to work in his home in Chiang Mai and solved the problem by hiring a girl from the Philippines. I don't know how he sorted the visa, WP, and so forth but I'm quite sure he had a lawyer sort it out for him. I think she's been working for him about 3 years now and he's quite pleased.

This may be the solution to the perennial visa problems for farangs of the lower sort like myself.

Just become a dogsbody in the home of some prosperous Brother.

You wouldn't have anything open yourself, would you?

Edited January 13, 2013 by CMHomeboy78

[hellodolly]

A friend of mine always complained he could never find anyone good to work in his home in Chiang Mai and solved the problem by hiring a girl from the Philippines. I don't know how he sorted the visa, WP, and so forth but I'm quite sure he had a lawyer sort it out for him. I think she's been working for him about 3 years now and he's quite pleased.

This may be the solution to the perennial visa problems for farangs of the lower sort like myself.

Just become a dogsbody in the home of some prosperous Brother.

You wouldn't have anything open yourself, would you?

I thought you were leaving.

[DLock]

SLESQ, Thanks for taking the time to post this. A lot of wisdom there that I will take on board and see if it helps.

[DLock]

Now if only CMhomeboy would go back to wherever he came from it would be possible to have a meaningful exchange.

What is at issue here isn't just some toff's servant problems; more important is the unwanted presence in Chiang Mai of a large and growing number of farang who - to put it bluntly - don't belong.

Don't belong because they haven't integrated into the local culture to the least degree.

They don't really have to anymore.

Chiang Mai now offers a cornucopia of comfort food. Gone are the days when the Kasem Store and the "supermarket" in the basement of Tantraphan were the only sources for a few familiar goodies.

Everything is laid out at your feet now, at a price of course, but it's all there. Food, housing, recreation. It's all tailored just for you.

You live here like latter-day colonists. You have your own social circles. The natives are only there to serve your wants and needs.

But like your colonial predecessors you are ignorant of some basic home-truths about where you are and about the people you are living among.

Asian cultures had long traditions of refinement and civility at a time when our ancestors were throwing the contents of their chamber pots out the windows and into the street.

Farangs came here first as predators in the 16th Century. Barbarians in conduct, if not in technology, they proceeded to exploit and colonize wherever and whenever they could.

In the 21st Century the tables are turned. Now it's our countries that are weak and in decline. East Asia is rising. Times are changing.

Chiang Mai farangs are learning to kow-tow, wheedle, lie, and perform long demeaning rituals to obtain temporary permission to stay here.

The party's over, Adios.

I am sorry that you inferiority complex and lack of means clouds your judgement on why some people need Domestic staff.

I wish it was so I can lay on a sun-bed all day and drink Daiquiris.

But unfortunately, I need staff so I can spend over 200days a year traveling and running my businesses to pay my bills and not leave my wife alone to manage the house and property.

Next time, think or ask questions before making judgements and looking like a fool.

[Konini]

--------------SNIP--------------------------------------

In the 21st Century the tables are turned. Now it's our countries that are weak and in decline. East Asia is rising. Times are changing.

While I don't agree with what you're saying, last week I read a book called Why the West Rules - For Now by Ian Morris. It's the most interesting book I've read in a few months, and describes exactly why the western countries are in control now and how the Asians will change that in the future.

It's a very thought provoking book, and I recommend it to everyone.

[BookMan]

--------------SNIP--------------------------------------

In the 21st Century the tables are turned. Now it's our countries that are weak and in decline. East Asia is rising. Times are changing.

While I don't agree with what you're saying, last week I read a book called Why the West Rules - For Now by Ian Morris. It's the most interesting book I've read in a few months, and describes exactly why the western countries are in control now and how the Asians will change that in the future.

It's a very thought provoking book, and I recommend it to everyone.

[BookMan]

A friend of mine always complained he could never find anyone good to work in his home in Chiang Mai and solved the problem by hiring a girl from the Philippines. I don't know how he sorted the visa, WP, and so forth but I'm quite sure he had a lawyer sort it out for him. I think she's been working for him about 3 years now and he's quite pleased.

This may be the solution to the perennial visa problems for farangs of the lower sort like myself.

Just become a dogsbody in the home of some prosperous Brother.

You wouldn't have anything open yourself, would you?

With your type of attitude I doubt you would be employable

[mikey88]

If the lady has only the few things to do that you mention...I could probably easily do all that in an hour...two at the most...

Maybe the job is not challenging enough...maybe you should get 'more' things for her to do..

I am a very long way from being an expert but from my enquiries so far 6k to 7k seems to be reasonable wages....plus you are providing all those extras perks..

I've been told that shop assistants get 6k and they have to sit there for 8 to 10 hours 6 days a week...

[elektrified]

If the lady has only the few things to do that you mention...I could probably easily do all that in an hour...two at the most...

Maybe the job is not challenging enough...maybe you should get 'more' things for her to do..

I am a very long way from being an expert but from my enquiries so far 6k to 7k seems to be reasonable wages....plus you are providing all those extras perks..

I've been told that shop assistants get 6k and they have to sit there for 8 to 10 hours 6 days a week...

No, not true. There is a minimum wage in Thailand now. I believe it is 9K THB for salaried employees. You would have a difficult time finding anyone to work in the home full-time for 6-7K.

[rookball]

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

[DLock]

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

[catmac]

A friend of mine always complained he could never find anyone good to work in his home in Chiang Mai and solved the problem by hiring a girl from the Philippines. I don't know how he sorted the visa, WP, and so forth but I'm quite sure he had a lawyer sort it out for him. I think she's been working for him about 3 years now and he's quite pleased.

This may be the solution to the perennial visa problems for farangs of the lower sort like myself.

Just become a dogsbody in the home of some prosperous Brother.

You wouldn't have anything open yourself, would you?

Good grief!

Imagine having him sulking around your home, muttering curses about you and only smiling when you've had a lousy day at Immigration. The mind simply boggles.....!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

How about we stop feeding the trolls?

Edited January 17, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[mikey88]

Wherever anybody goes in the world there's an economy already in place. The economy has pretty much nothing to do with the relatively minor numbers of foreign residents I would think....unless you are talking about tourist spending which is a different thing.

If this is true then 'the economy' dictates the general wage levels for different tasks. Same like it does in my home country I would think...

Service relationships exist in all economies, hospitality, domestic...even the professions are essentially service relationships. It seems indeed true that some people have a particularly personal, emotional, negative response to the notion of service.

I don't myself really. I worked in menial 'hospitality' for many years when I was younger. Always enjoyed it...never felt 'less than'....ever.

I have no real idea of what wage is 'right'. Just finding out. I do know when you give people too much and expect too little, you actually breed hostility. I also know that exploitation is never right or justified.

A fair day's work for a fair day's pay has been the maxim of the labour movement and I believe in it.

I was talking to a man in his 20's....unskilled but going to night school.

He told me he was getting 4,500 baht a month at the restaurant he just left for a 6 day week. He said that was too low for him.

He moved to a new job working late at night in an hotel and now gets 8,000 for a 6 day week.

I think I'll learn more by just talking to locals and just finding out hat they think.

For what it worth.. Mike...

[DLock]

Wherever anybody goes in the world there's an economy already in place. The economy has pretty much nothing to do with the relatively minor numbers of foreign residents I would think....unless you are talking about tourist spending which is a different thing.

If this is true then 'the economy' dictates the general wage levels for different tasks. Same like it does in my home country I would think...

Service relationships exist in all economies, hospitality, domestic...even the professions are essentially service relationships. It seems indeed true that some people have a particularly personal, emotional, negative response to the notion of service.

I don't myself really. I worked in menial 'hospitality' for many years when I was younger. Always enjoyed it...never felt 'less than'....ever.

I have no real idea of what wage is 'right'. Just finding out. I do know when you give people too much and expect too little, you actually breed hostility. I also know that exploitation is never right or justified.

A fair day's work for a fair day's pay has been the maxim of the labour movement and I believe in it.

I was talking to a man in his 20's....unskilled but going to night school.

He told me he was getting 4,500 baht a month at the restaurant he just left for a 6 day week. He said that was too low for him.

He moved to a new job working late at night in an hotel and now gets 8,000 for a 6 day week.

I think I'll learn more by just talking to locals and just finding out hat they think.

For what it worth.. Mike...

Mike, I agree with you.

It's either a very simple problem, or a very complex one...I haven't decided yet.

But bottom line is that I will pay what I have to pay to get the service level I expect. I'm not trying to pay as little as possible as some people think. I'm aiming for a service level and will pay what I need to get that.

Problem is that I don't know what that number is and can't find the people that I need and the service and experience level is generally below what I expect.

I will figure this out.

[cardinalblue]

Why isn't there a Domestic help/maid center for Thai or foreigners?

It seems like a possible business opportunity for someone with right connections.

My Thai wife and I are having an extremely hard time finding a PT maid for 3 days a week. It seems the present system is word of mouth. Though I will say my wife has an autocratic style of mamagement combined with lack of training skills so she lets them go after a few times...Blame rests with her...

I stay out of it but do have personnel/training mgt experience so what I have seen is average worker behavior but with proper oreintation, training, and positive reinforcement (even monetary incentives), decent and reliable service could be achieved....Longevity is another factor which involves sone luck....

Anyone has the ph # for Molley Maid?

CB

[rideswings]

My suggestion to you is to keep your wife out of it, or you will never find good help.

My GF cleans daily and weekly for many people in CM. She is very proud of what she does, and if she encounters an autocratic Thai wife, she cant run fast enough away. For some people she meets, nothing is good enough, and many Thai people look down on her because she is Burmese and they think they can just order her around and disrespect her. She does a great job, and she doesnt need to be micromanaged, as some women will try to do. Just let her do her thing, and most are happy with the results. She has many repeat customers and she is as honest as the day is long.

Why isn't there a Domestic help/maid center for Thai or foreigners?

It seems like a possible business opportunity for someone with right connections.

My Thai wife and I are having an extremely hard time finding a PT maid for 3 days a week. It seems the present system is word of mouth. Though I will say my wife has an autocratic style of mamagement combined with lack of training skills so she lets them go after a few times...Blame rests with her...

I stay out of it but do have personnel/training mgt experience so what I have seen is average worker behavior but with proper oreintation, training, and positive reinforcement (even monetary incentives), decent and reliable service could be achieved....Longevity is another factor which involves sone luck....

Anyone has the ph # for Molley Maid?

CB

[rookball]

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

its my mistake on my part as i misinterpreted the pay as you mentioned 300baht a day 6 days a week. thanks for going easy on me a newbie in contrast to your extensive experiences here but its only a simple question if it is fair for such a wages so i do know not how you manage to bring surviving with 9000 baht and western logic into my straight question. unless you are feeling something else subconsciously

Edited January 23, 2013 by rookball

[Dante99]

My suggestion to you is to keep your wife out of it, or you will never find good help.

Difficult to do but the thought is so often correct, especially when it comes to keeping good help.

[DLock]

My suggestion to you is to keep your wife out of it, or you will never find good help.

My GF cleans daily and weekly for many people in CM. She is very proud of what she does, and if she encounters an autocratic Thai wife, she cant run fast enough away. For some people she meets, nothing is good enough, and many Thai people look down on her because she is Burmese and they think they can just order her around and disrespect her. She does a great job, and she doesnt need to be micromanaged, as some women will try to do. Just let her do her thing, and most are happy with the results. She has many repeat customers and she is as honest as the day is long.

Why isn't there a Domestic help/maid center for Thai or foreigners?

It seems like a possible business opportunity for someone with right connections.

My Thai wife and I are having an extremely hard time finding a PT maid for 3 days a week. It seems the present system is word of mouth. Though I will say my wife has an autocratic style of mamagement combined with lack of training skills so she lets them go after a few times...Blame rests with her...

I stay out of it but do have personnel/training mgt experience so what I have seen is average worker behavior but with proper oreintation, training, and positive reinforcement (even monetary incentives), decent and reliable service could be achieved....Longevity is another factor which involves sone luck....

Anyone has the ph # for Molley Maid?

CB

You advice is good, but for all the wrong reasons.

My wife buys them food, sometimes eats with them and overlooks lateness and poor jobs. I guess it's a Thai thing.

She is definitely part of the problem. The staff become too familiar and their expectations and attitude change. They want more holidays, start leaving earlier and earlier on Saturday's and turning up later on Monday mornings.

[DLock]

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

its my mistake on my part as i misinterpreted the pay as you mentioned 300baht a day 6 days a week. thanks for going easy on me a newbie in contrast to your extensive experiences here but its only a simple question if it is fair for such a wages so i do know not how you manage to bring surviving with 9000 baht and western logic into my straight question. unless you are feeling something else subconsciously

Dozens of threads discussing the Thai salary of 9,000baht per month.

Go play in those threads.

[Thailand]

My suggestion to you is to keep your wife out of it, or you will never find good help.

My GF cleans daily and weekly for many people in CM. She is very proud of what she does, and if she encounters an autocratic Thai wife, she cant run fast enough away. For some people she meets, nothing is good enough, and many Thai people look down on her because she is Burmese and they think they can just order her around and disrespect her. She does a great job, and she doesnt need to be micromanaged, as some women will try to do. Just let her do her thing, and most are happy with the results. She has many repeat customers and she is as honest as the day is long.

Why isn't there a Domestic help/maid center for Thai or foreigners?

It seems like a possible business opportunity for someone with right connections.

My Thai wife and I are having an extremely hard time finding a PT maid for 3 days a week. It seems the present system is word of mouth. Though I will say my wife has an autocratic style of mamagement combined with lack of training skills so she lets them go after a few times...Blame rests with her...

I stay out of it but do have personnel/training mgt experience so what I have seen is average worker behavior but with proper oreintation, training, and positive reinforcement (even monetary incentives), decent and reliable service could be achieved....Longevity is another factor which involves sone luck....

Anyone has the ph # for Molley Maid?

CB

You advice is good, but for all the wrong reasons.

My wife buys them food, sometimes eats with them and overlooks lateness and poor jobs. I guess it's a Thai thing.

She is definitely part of the problem. The staff become too familiar and their expectations and attitude change. They want more holidays, start leaving earlier and earlier on Saturday's and turning up later on Monday mornings.

Perhaps you can get her to read this thread then you may have more than staff problems .

We gave up a couple of years ago after 4-5 mae baan's (nobody does anything as well as the wife-she says!). Now looking to sell our too big house and buy a smaller more manageable property.

[drnkurmlkshk]

I think you can expect a better quality maid if you pay more. Assuming you can afford it, just offer 15k with the same other benefits you mentioned. Then you will have loads of people interested in the job. If someone isn't doing what you'd hoped for just cycle a new person in really fast - no need to hesitate, you can seriously try a new person weekly until you find one that fits the bill. With that money offer you will get more candidates and better candidates.

I also think what you want from a maid could easily be accomplished without a live in. Just hire someone to come clean the place for a few hours every day and that should accomplish everything you want, it will likely be cheaper than what I am writing above and it will be a more favorable situation to the lady. What exactly does having a live in accomplish?

[hedonist44]

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

Well, I also live on Samoeng Road up the hill a ways and pay my maid 7,000 per month and have had her for 4 years now. I do let her and her husband and kid stay on property as well as buy all the rice and water. I personally don't think that's being cheap and they seem very happy to have a nice place to live and not have to work all that hard. I think it's all in how you treat them and if they want an extra day off here and there for what ever reasons, I always let them go. But on the other hand, if they do something totally off the wall then I put my foot down and they get the message. So as the end of the day, it pays to treat staff no differently then you would your own family, to a certain extent. Respect goes along way and it make no difference what social class your working with, people are people and need to be treated as such.

[DLock]

I think you can expect a better quality maid if you pay more. Assuming you can afford it, just offer 15k with the same other benefits you mentioned. Then you will have loads of people interested in the job. If someone isn't doing what you'd hoped for just cycle a new person in really fast - no need to hesitate, you can seriously try a new person weekly until you find one that fits the bill. With that money offer you will get more candidates and better candidates.

I also think what you want from a maid could easily be accomplished without a live in. Just hire someone to come clean the place for a few hours every day and that should accomplish everything you want, it will likely be cheaper than what I am writing above and it will be a more favorable situation to the lady. What exactly does having a live in accomplish?

I don't disagree.

A live-in is there for 2 reasons - so someone is on the property at all times for security and because we travel frequently.

But do they really have to be live-in? No. In fact, the work really is not difficult and a professional maid could do the work in 3 or 4 hours....which may be part of the problem.

[DLock]

that is just a measly 7200 baht per month, why don't you ask yourself is it fair to pay that amount for a live in gardener cum security man cum hand man?

I actually pay him 9,000baht per month, plus house and all utilities, plus 1 month bonus, holidays and bike.

He was earning about half that in his previous job.

You are a newbie, and know not what you post, so I'll go easy on you this time. Yes, I think 9,000 is fair, but he doesn't, so I am forced to pay what someone will work for and that is called "market forces". Thailand essentially has zero unemployment so employees have plenty of choice. I am ok with that.

In answer to you next question, no I could not live or 9,000 baht per month, in fact I cant live on 9,000baht per day. But chances are, everywhere you go where Thai people work are probably paid around the same, or often less if the owner can get away with it.

Bringing Western logic into this debate is flawed and ignorant. Go read some of the many other threads debating the minimum wage to understand.

Well, I also live on Samoeng Road up the hill a ways and pay my maid 7,000 per month and have had her for 4 years now. I do let her and her husband and kid stay on property as well as buy all the rice and water. I personally don't think that's being cheap and they seem very happy to have a nice place to live and not have to work all that hard. I think it's all in how you treat them and if they want an extra day off here and there for what ever reasons, I always let them go. But on the other hand, if they do something totally off the wall then I put my foot down and they get the message. So as the end of the day, it pays to treat staff no differently then you would your own family, to a certain extent. Respect goes along way and it make no difference what social class your working with, people are people and need to be treated as such.

I would say my wife did treat them like family. I'm not there often enough to have much of an impact. I'm not sure that helped the situation or impeded it.

They often took extra days for rice harvest, Buddha days, sick days and a few other reasons.

Interesting to note that the Maid called up and asked to come back without the husband. My instinct tells me that this is not ideal, but I will considerate it.

Incidentally, my staff were on 7,500 per month each last year, and I agree, based on local input that was a fair salary.