GBP to THB Exchange Rate

[churchill]

Naam

'somebody enlighten me please where i can find details of the future 40% UK capital gains tax on property sales.'

'The rule change, which comes into effect in April 2015, will apply to future increases in value, not any previous growth. As well as foreign investors it will also hit UK expats selling properties while based overseas, and is expected to earn the government £125m by 2018/19.'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/05/autumn-statement-overseas-property-tax-loophole-cgt

Edited December 6, 2013 by churchill

[Naam]

Naam

'somebody enlighten me please where i can find details of the future 40% UK capital gains tax on property sales.'

'The rule change, which comes into effect in April 2015, will apply to future increases in value, not any previous growth. As well as foreign investors it will also hit UK expats selling properties while based overseas, and is expected to earn the government £125m by 2018/19.'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/05/autumn-statement-overseas-property-tax-loophole-cgt

i still don't see "40%". do i need stronger reading glasses?

[mccw]

somebody enlighten me please where i can find details of the future 40% UK capital gains tax on property sales.

My mistake. Seems its 28% for a higher rate tax payer:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/property/calc-cgt.htm

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[mccw]

The personal allowances are applicable too + cap spending on the place; so its not so bad. But still worth cashing out now for me before it comes in. I imagine quite a few non residents will feel similarly.

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[mccw]

As said it might transpire or not to be from 2015 market levels- but I'd rather not gamble on the wait n see, potentially getting caught in the rush for the exit.

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[mccw]

The 40% figure must have been mixed in my memory from the inheritance tax (above the tax free allowance/ threshold)

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/inheritancetax/intro/basics.htm

Hope that's all cleared up and sorry for any confusion

Thanks for pointing out the error Naam once again. People shouldn't be upset by errors being pointed out- its actually very useful.

Cheers

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[Naam]

As said it might transpire or not to be from 2015 market levels- but I'd rather not gamble on the wait n see, potentially getting caught in the rush for the exit.

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i don't think the big shots who spent not millions but hundreds of millions buying top properties in London will sell. they were looking for diversification in "hard" assets and are not interested in additional "fiat" cash.

[topt]

Naam

'somebody enlighten me please where i can find details of the future 40% UK capital gains tax on property sales.'

'The rule change, which comes into effect in April 2015, will apply to future increases in value, not any previous growth. As well as foreign investors it will also hit UK expats selling properties while based overseas, and is expected to earn the government £125m by 2018/19.'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/05/autumn-statement-overseas-property-tax-loophole-cgt

I cannot see how that will work. If you have owned a property for say 10 or even 20 years and you sell it in say 2019 who and how are they going to assess what the value was in 2015?

Anybody care to speculate?

[Naam]

Naam

'somebody enlighten me please where i can find details of the future 40% UK capital gains tax on property sales.'

'The rule change, which comes into effect in April 2015, will apply to future increases in value, not any previous growth. As well as foreign investors it will also hit UK expats selling properties while based overseas, and is expected to earn the government £125m by 2018/19.'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/05/autumn-statement-overseas-property-tax-loophole-cgt

I cannot see how that will work. If you have owned a property for say 10 or even 20 years and you sell it in say 2019 who and how are they going to assess what the value was in 2015?

Anybody care to speculate?

it is not known whether some politicians or Guardian journalists produced BS.

perhaps the basis for any future capital gains calculation are prevailing property taxes?

Edited December 7, 2013 by Naam

[chiang mai]

And now for something different!

Not Sustainable

"The pound has risen about 7.3 percent against the dollar in the past six months. It’s advanced 6.7 percent in the past six months, the best performer among 10 developed-nation currencies tracked by Bloomberg Correlation-Weighted Indexes.

For Posen, who is now president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington, U.K. growth will temporarily “surprise on the upside, so that’s all bullish for sterling.” While a crisis in the pound isn’t “locked and loaded,” there is the potential for one, according to Posen.

“I don’t view this as a sustainable recovery, I view 1-1.5 percent of the growth rate as relying on fundamentals and the rest of it being this bubble,” he said.

Asked how long this could continue, Posen said, “If we’ve got enough oligarchs and people fleeing, wanting to get their money out of unstable governments, they want to buy real estate in London, it could last for a while.”

To contact the reporters on this story: Jennifer Ryan in London at [email protected]; Eshe Nelson in London at [email protected]"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-25/posen-says-u-k-house-price-bubble-may-fuel-crisis-in-sterling.html

[SheungWan]

Naam

'somebody enlighten me please where i can find details of the future 40% UK capital gains tax on property sales.'

'The rule change, which comes into effect in April 2015, will apply to future increases in value, not any previous growth. As well as foreign investors it will also hit UK expats selling properties while based overseas, and is expected to earn the government £125m by 2018/19.'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/05/autumn-statement-overseas-property-tax-loophole-cgt

I cannot see how that will work. If you have owned a property for say 10 or even 20 years and you sell it in say 2019 who and how are they going to assess what the value was in 2015?

Anybody care to speculate?

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

[topt]

Naam

'somebody enlighten me please where i can find details of the future 40% UK capital gains tax on property sales.'

'The rule change, which comes into effect in April 2015, will apply to future increases in value, not any previous growth. As well as foreign investors it will also hit UK expats selling properties while based overseas, and is expected to earn the government £125m by 2018/19.'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/05/autumn-statement-overseas-property-tax-loophole-cgt

I cannot see how that will work. If you have owned a property for say 10 or even 20 years and you sell it in say 2019 who and how are they going to assess what the value was in 2015?

Anybody care to speculate?

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

That is unfortunately the most logical and, in my view, most likely method - and the most painful.

[Naam]

Naam

'somebody enlighten me please where i can find details of the future 40% UK capital gains tax on property sales.'

'The rule change, which comes into effect in April 2015, will apply to future increases in value, not any previous growth. As well as foreign investors it will also hit UK expats selling properties while based overseas, and is expected to earn the government £125m by 2018/19.'

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/05/autumn-statement-overseas-property-tax-loophole-cgt

I cannot see how that will work. If you have owned a property for say 10 or even 20 years and you sell it in say 2019 who and how are they going to assess what the value was in 2015?

Anybody care to speculate?

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

That is unfortunately the most logical and, in my view, most likely method - and the most painful.

in my view highly unlikely, in fact impossible. how does one calculate the gains of a property for the period of 2015-2020 assuming the property was bought in 1973 and sold in 2020? you spelled it out before.

only possibility would be the U.S. way where property taxes are based on values which are recalculated/adjusted every year.

[topt]

I cannot see how that will work. If you have owned a property for say 10 or even 20 years and you sell it in say 2019 who and how are they going to assess what the value was in 2015?

Anybody care to speculate?

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

That is unfortunately the most logical and, in my view, most likely method - and the most painful.

in my view highly unlikely, in fact impossible. how does one calculate the gains of a property for the period of 2015-2020 assuming the property was bought in 1973 and sold in 2020? you spelled it out before.

only possibility would be the U.S. way where property taxes are based on values which are recalculated/adjusted every year.

They can't - I am suggesting (as was SheungWan I think) they will ignore 2015 and take the purchase price whenever it was - that was why I said "most painful".

There is currently no system in the UK to adjust house values every year. They did it once when they abolished the community charge and replaced it with Council Tax and houseowners are still challenging banding valuations 20 years later! Not to say they might not introduce one but it would be a lot of work for a relatively small number of transactions.

[mccw]

 

 

 

 

 

I cannot see how that will work. If you have owned a property for say 10 or even 20 years and you sell it in say 2019 who and how are they going to assess what the value was in 2015?

Anybody care to speculate? 

 

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

 

That is unfortunately the most logical and, in my view, most likely method - and the most painful.

 

in my view highly unlikely, in fact impossible. how does one calculate the gains of a property for the period of 2015-2020 assuming the property was bought in 1973 and sold in 2020? you spelled it out before.

 

only possibility would be the U.S. way where property taxes are based on values which are recalculated/adjusted every year.

 

 

They can't - I am suggesting (as was SheungWan I think) they will ignore 2015 and take the purchase price whenever it was - that was why I said "most painful".

 

There is currently no system in the UK to adjust house values every year. They did it once when they abolished the community charge and replaced it with Council Tax and houseowners are still challenging banding valuations 20 years later! Not to say they might not introduce one but it would be a lot of work for a relatively small number of transactions.

I think they will not do any valuations and tax calculations. In Osborne's speech he said it was "unfair" to tax non residents different from residents. So this 2015 thing is just a smoke screen probably, to prevent a rush of sellers, when the time comes they'll just tax it based on the purchase price and it'll be too late to do anything about it. Ie in early 2015 a statement will be put out going something like "effective immediately all non residents will be taxed as residents".

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[i claudius]

Sorry but what has all this to do with the gpb to tpb rate?

[mccw]

Sorry but what has all this to do with the gpb to tpb rate? 

Should be obvious that a housing crash or flight of foreign money offshore would effect the value of sterling

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[chiang mai]

A quote that mirrors reality I suspect, the last sentence is especially relevant:

"1. Baby boomers' and their kids will need to sell their properties to pay for their palliative care and/or IHT.
2. Foreign speculators with no vested interest in London will eventually leave to escape taxation/realise gains
3. Potential FTBs of 2016 onwards will have far more student debt (ie less deposit, higher effective tax rates) than their forebears.
4. Interest-only timebomb will force many OAPs to downsize in the last few years of the decade.
5. If interest rates do rise, there are supposedly 644000 - 2 million households who will be forced sell up.

Anybody who tells you property is going to go through the roof in the next 7 years is banking on inflation or perpetual government support.

That said, all of these are gradual processes, not the sort of thing that screams house price crash, that will take a black swan of some kind".

[alfieconn]

I cannot see how that will work. If you have owned a property for say 10 or even 20 years and you sell it in say 2019 who and how are they going to assess what the value was in 2015?

Anybody care to speculate?

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

That is unfortunately the most logical and, in my view, most likely method - and the most painful.

in my view highly unlikely, in fact impossible. how does one calculate the gains of a property for the period of 2015-2020 assuming the property was bought in 1973 and sold in 2020? you spelled it out before.

only possibility would be the U.S. way where property taxes are based on values which are recalculated/adjusted every year.

They can't - I am suggesting (as was SheungWan I think) they will ignore 2015 and take the purchase price whenever it was - that was why I said "most painful".

There is currently no system in the UK to adjust house values every year. They did it once when they abolished the community charge and replaced it with Council Tax and houseowners are still challenging banding valuations 20 years later! Not to say they might not introduce one but it would be a lot of work for a relatively small number of transactions.

I think they will not do any valuations and tax calculations. In Osborne's speech he said it was "unfair" to tax non residents different from residents. So this 2015 thing is just a smoke screen probably, to prevent a rush of sellers, when the time comes they'll just tax it based on the purchase price and it'll be too late to do anything about it. Ie in early 2015 a statement will be put out going something like "effective immediately all non residents will be taxed as residents".

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One way to avoid CGT if they going to take the original price as the base price would be to sell before the April 2015 deadline and buy the same property back at a later date !

Anyway this is what the FT have said, mind you not too sure how they would know :

"From April 2015, homeowners who are non-resident in the UK for tax purposes will become liable for CGT on any increase in property values after that date."

"It is not yet clear how the tax will be collected from sellers, or whether homes bought before April 2015 will be exempt. The government is to consult on the details early next year."

[NeverSure]

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

That is unfortunately the most logical and, in my view, most likely method - and the most painful.

in my view highly unlikely, in fact impossible. how does one calculate the gains of a property for the period of 2015-2020 assuming the property was bought in 1973 and sold in 2020? you spelled it out before.

only possibility would be the U.S. way where property taxes are based on values which are recalculated/adjusted every year.

I'm not sure I understand. In the US, property sales are recorded at the courthouse and the sales price must be listed. I can go to the records for any property in any county and see the last sales price, even if it was decades ago.

And actually, property taxes are based on value only as a ratio to other properties. It's called the "assessed" value and isn't intended to be an appraisal. My last property sale was for 1/3 more than the assessed value, and an official, licensed appraisal agreed with the sales price.

They care about only 2 things. 1.) That the total taxes collected on the assessed values = the amount of money they need to raise, and 2.) That if your house is worth twice as much as mine, you should pay twice as much in taxes.

It wouldn't really matter if they assessed my house at $1 and yours at $2. They would still take their total budget needs and the total of assessed values for all properties in the county. Then they would do the math and see how much each $1 of assessed value would have to pay to meet the budget. If that number was $2,500 per $1 of assessed value, I would pay $2500 and you would pay $5000.

The only important thing to them is that they keep the assessed values balanced. If you thought your house was only worth 50% more than mine instead of double, you could appeal showing some actual comparable sales prices and probably get your tax assessment lowered to $3750.

Basically, they don't have time to "appraise" every property every year, or even every ten years. Once the property enters the system, they appraise it once, compare that to all others in the area, and from that day forward just use ratios. It works.

[chiang mai]

This is just one mans opinion of course but given that he's as well respected on the subject as he is, I think he's worth listening to, people in the City typically listen to Roger Bootle, he says:

"Whenever something goes wrong with the UK economy you can bet your bottom dollar that a misalignment of the pound is somehow connected with it, either as cause or effect, and sometimes both. So it is at the moment, as the pound has recently become unhealthily strong.

Last week, sterling’s trade-weighted index, which is a pretty good guide to its average value, was 9pc higher than its recent March low and stood at its highest level since August 2009. Against the dollar the pound has been trading at well over 1.6 and against the euro it has been at 1.2."

The full article is here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/10504550/An-informal-cap-on-the-pound-is-the-only-way-to-rebalance-our-economy.html

[SheungWan]

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

That is unfortunately the most logical and, in my view, most likely method - and the most painful.

in my view highly unlikely, in fact impossible. how does one calculate the gains of a property for the period of 2015-2020 assuming the property was bought in 1973 and sold in 2020? you spelled it out before.

only possibility would be the U.S. way where property taxes are based on values which are recalculated/adjusted every year.

I'm not sure I understand. In the US, property sales are recorded at the courthouse and the sales price must be listed. I can go to the records for any property in any county and see the last sales price, even if it was decades ago.

And actually, property taxes are based on value only as a ratio to other properties. It's called the "assessed" value and isn't intended to be an appraisal. My last property sale was for 1/3 more than the assessed value, and an official, licensed appraisal agreed with the sales price.

They care about only 2 things. 1.) That the total taxes collected on the assessed values = the amount of money they need to raise, and 2.) That if your house is worth twice as much as mine, you should pay twice as much in taxes.

It wouldn't really matter if they assessed my house at $1 and yours at $2. They would still take their total budget needs and the total of assessed values for all properties in the county. Then they would do the math and see how much each $1 of assessed value would have to pay to meet the budget. If that number was $2,500 per $1 of assessed value, I would pay $2500 and you would pay $5000.

The only important thing to them is that they keep the assessed values balanced. If you thought your house was only worth 50% more than mine instead of double, you could appeal showing some actual comparable sales prices and probably get your tax assessment lowered to $3750.

Basically, they don't have time to "appraise" every property every year, or even every ten years. Once the property enters the system, they appraise it once, compare that to all others in the area, and from that day forward just use ratios. It works.

In the UK, market value is only ever used in the assessment of CGT where a sale was not conducted either at the time of purchase or disposal.

For a UK resident reliefs and allowances are calculated when assessment is made at the time of disposal and liability payment is made. CGT is not liable on increase in 'value' if no disposal is made (other than gifting, inheritance etc). For the purposes of an overseas purchaser CGT will be liable as the government is now deeming that such properties are not the owners' prime residence.

[chiang mai]

Iceland seems to have the right approach to housing debt, the government just wrote off 24k from everyone's mortgage, just to reduce personal debt which is lower than the UK's:

http://www.thejournal.ie/iceland-goes-against-international-concern-writes-off-debt-1203320-Dec2013/

[Huayrat]

Unhealthy strong pound.. Haha where do these numpties come from.. I've lived here for 4 years and its always been around the 48 baht figure on average, so it's gone up 10% .. How is that unhealthy strong ?? Some ppl just talk aload of BS..

[chiang mai]

I wonder if it's possible that I could patent myself as a prat magnet and if successful, would there be a market.

[SheungWan]

In the UK, market value is only ever used in the assessment of CGT where a sale was not conducted either at the time of purchase or disposal.

For a UK resident reliefs and allowances are calculated when assessment is made at the time of disposal and liability payment is made. CGT is not liable on increase in 'value' if no disposal is made (other than gifting, inheritance etc). For the purposes of an overseas purchaser CGT will be liable as the government is now deeming that such properties are not the owners' prime residence.

In the event of a valuation being made in lieu of a sale eg in the case of calculations for inheritance tax, a written valuation can be sought from a 'reputable' estate agent. Such a valuation might be subject to challenge from Inland Rev., but not a finite science operation.

[Naam]

Capital gains on the sale price- purchase price

That is unfortunately the most logical and, in my view, most likely method - and the most painful.

in my view highly unlikely, in fact impossible. how does one calculate the gains of a property for the period of 2015-2020 assuming the property was bought in 1973 and sold in 2020? you spelled it out before.

only possibility would be the U.S. way where property taxes are based on values which are recalculated/adjusted every year.

I'm not sure I understand. In the US, property sales are recorded at the courthouse and the sales price must be listed. I can go to the records for any property in any county and see the last sales price, even if it was decades ago.

And actually, property taxes are based on value only as a ratio to other properties. It's called the "assessed" value and isn't intended to be an appraisal. My last property sale was for 1/3 more than the assessed value, and an official, licensed appraisal agreed with the sales price.

They care about only 2 things. 1.) That the total taxes collected on the assessed values = the amount of money they need to raise, and 2.) That if your house is worth twice as much as mine, you should pay twice as much in taxes.

It wouldn't really matter if they assessed my house at $1 and yours at $2. They would still take their total budget needs and the total of assessed values for all properties in the county. Then they would do the math and see how much each $1 of assessed value would have to pay to meet the budget. If that number was $2,500 per $1 of assessed value, I would pay $2500 and you would pay $5000.

The only important thing to them is that they keep the assessed values balanced. If you thought your house was only worth 50% more than mine instead of double, you could appeal showing some actual comparable sales prices and probably get your tax assessment lowered to $3750.

Basically, they don't have time to "appraise" every property every year, or even every ten years. Once the property enters the system, they appraise it once, compare that to all others in the area, and from that day forward just use ratios. It works.

the Florida county where i lived did random tax appraisals every 3-4 years. taxman used to come and ask a few questions such as "any upgrades like spa, solar panels, replacing carpets with Italian Carrara marble, exchanging 50 year old wife for two each 25 years old?"

tax value of property was approximately market value (based on area's average square foot price heated/cooled) minus 20-25% less $50k if primary residence.

edited: ugly typos

Edited December 10, 2013 by Naam

[ffaarraanngg]

Iceland seems to have the right approach to housing debt, the government just wrote off 24k from everyone's mortgage, just to reduce personal debt which is lower than the UK's:

http://www.thejournal.ie/iceland-goes-against-international-concern-writes-off-debt-1203320-Dec2013/

So the financially illiterates who borrowed money from their house to go on holiday, have plastic surgery, buy a newer car/2nd car, spent thousands on imported crap should get a direct rebate.

Are zero percent interest rates, QE and every other bribe to the over borrowed not enough for them? surely in the last 5 years that must be somewhere near 24K Euro on average.

Raise interest rates above inflation and watch the weak go bankrupt and lose their houses as they deserve.

[mccw]

How about just wiping the slate clean? Forgive all debt and start again at 15% interest rates or something. Everybody keeps their houses etc; say <deleted> u guys to the bankers and create nationally owned banks as utilities for economic stability.

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[ffaarraanngg]

Unhealthy strong pound.. Haha where do these numpties come from.. I've lived here for 4 years and its always been around the 48 baht figure on average, so it's gone up 10% .. How is that unhealthy strong ?? Some ppl just talk aload of BS..

The GBP THB exchange rate is an irrelevance to most, but look back 5 years you'll see its dropped.

British politicians and drones in the mass media seem to think Britain can only export if the rate is stuck extremely low forever, such short term planning is why Britain exports nothing more then Gravy Granules to a few expats.