Missing Swiss Student Tourist Alive And Well, In Thai Prison

[Monkeyrobot]

" While the officer was typing the arrest record, she asked to go to the toilet ” Have any of you TV members been on a overstay? they don't type out a arrest record, well actullary at that time she was not under arrest anyway, it's a peprinted form and they hand write your name and number of days, done in under 1 minute, they then stamp your passport overstay 3 days and off you go. If I was to presume what happened, they said if you don't pay we will take your camera as payment, then the shit really hit the fan. Her mother also stated she phoned home every week , seems like a responsible person, maybe the im officer was having a bad hair day or just another money grabbing official. But who knows? I am sure her story will come out later and if she was set up, lets see what happens. Nothing suprises me in this place.

[binjalin]

It seems obvious to me that the girl was unhappy about her overstay fine and decided to make a fuss, the immigration officer felt a loss of face and the rest is history. I cannot believe the story of the camera theft but i do know how these things work.

My other half is in the police and has told me many crazy stories that used to shock me but now just bring a wee smile at the sheer lack of true justice in Thailand when it comes to foreign nationals. One story which can show as an extreme case is the time when a guy innocently living with his gf in the north east was arrested for possession of drugs, even after insisting his innocence to his own embassy and the courts he was dully sentenced to 5 years in prison as you would expect. The cruxe of this story and the point of me writing it is that it would seem the real truth behind his arrest was that a certain police officer quite fancied this guys gf and wanted him out of the way.........I wont say anymore but im sure you can fill in the blanks.

Thailand is indeed a dangerous place to get into trouble be it with criminals or with the law and it would seem sometimes there is a fine line between them descriptions..........maybe the girl was arrogant or stupid, or maybe just not aware of how things go, I would hate to guess either way but it is certain that their best action now is to pay up the bail and get the hell outta dodge, worry about anything else after she gets out of the country. To be brutally honest i am very opinionated but if it were me i would do that and not even bother to kick up a fuss as nothing will come of it.

Yes keeping her in prison like this is very wrong, even "if" she was guilty of the theft her embassy should have been informed. but it does show you how simple things can become major things very quickly.

Its a simple fact when in Thailand........."DO NOT MESS WITH ANYONE IN AUTHORITY" talk with a polite tone and do your best to do as they ask even if they themselves are being complete <deleted>.

I also wonder how it would go down if this happened to someone who had no family looking for them, would they just be lost in the system forever? Scary!

scary indeed but we only know the half of it I'm sure but an educated guess is she angered the cops there I find it hardly credible she would steal in immigration after already being stopped for overstay

[NoshowJones]

Did I miss something?

Where is the evidence that this young lady stole a camera, and is now or was required to pay 130,000 baht for its replacement?

I'd like to know what kind of immigration officer can afford a 130,000 baht camera to sit in his/her office - cos a top Nikon with zoom lens and additional lenses is only 70K !!!

-mel.

I will never believed this story...you telling me a student from Switzerland went inside an interrogatory room at Immigration to stole a camera? Are you out of your mind?

Well done Thai police, keep up with the good jobs!!!!

Are you saying just because she is a university student from Switzerland that automatically means she can't do something stupid? George Bush graduated from Yale, and he lied to a whole country just to go to war. Bill O'Reily graduated from Harvard and look at the nonsensical dribble that springs forth from his mouth. I know those are extreme examples, but it shows that you can't assume she's innocent just because she goes to a decent university.

Tony Blair also went to university.

[NoshowJones]

Whatever the veracity of this story, the underlying distrust of any story regarding law enforcement officials in this country is a problem that will not go away in a hurry. The fact is that the culture of police corruption/extortion will always cloud the perception of what did or didn't happen. Life is not always rosy for the cops either, especially if they are straight, and even those of the farang community that consider themselves law abiding citizens can find themselves in situations out their control very quickly when dealing with officials whose real duty it is to protect the community rather than line their own pockets. This problem is so deeply entrenched in Thai life that a policeman, who was doing a good job, is in trouble for arresting the 'wrong' person and refusing to accept a bribe. The case involves a drug dealing relative of the mayors wife. The mayor is kicking up a fuss over a cop doing his job well. This is Thailand for sure! It's a double edged sword, one side is known to be corrupt therefore the other side expects corruption as a right.

What? A Thai cop that's straight? Sorry brother in law.

[mancub]

Quite a few posters seem eager to go to jail for defamation, judging from their posts suggesting, implying or stating outright that a police officer falsely accused this tourist of theft, but I believe they have to try harder to achieve that result. I suggest they go to the police station and say it to the officer’s face.

As for the tourist, judiciary rules say that she is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court, and I, for one, have the patience to wait for the court decision. Incidentally, this legal presumption of innocence applies even in a case of strong prima facia evidence or a confession and it does not imply that an accusation is false -- it is simply how the justice system works.

The justice system is sadly not above the influence of money ,status or corruption ....wait as long as you like for a court decision ,easy and often beneficial if you're a Thai national ....not so easy if you are not . Come back in 2 years to face a Thai court , with everything loaded against you , or swallow your pride and walk away from the bail money posted ?

[EyesWideOpen]

This story has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

Perhaps one day we will get the truth, because the sory as written just is not credible.

Yes, because 'we' really care don't we...

Yep because..............it could happen to any of us.

[EyesWideOpen]

And will she be given bail?

Probably not you have to commit murder for that.

She was granted bail, set at 130,000 Baht, and in the meantime this bail has been posted and she has been released from detention.

Good I look forward to hearing her side of the story.

[unanimosity]

There is no point in guessing. You do not know, have absolutely no idea, of what actually happened!

Exactly right. Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. People have gone to jail for little or nothing. Why has no journalist gone to interview her and find out her side of the story? She could be in prison for not cooperating but it might not have had anything to do with any overstay. Authorities at Swampy in May 2010 charged an overstay of 5000 baht despite being presented with documentation that the passport had been in a locked embassy on Wireless Road that was declared off limits by Thai police causing all embassies to close for over a week.

[unanimosity]

Quite a few posters seem eager to go to jail for defamation, judging from their posts suggesting, implying or stating outright that a police officer falsely accused this tourist of theft, but I believe they have to try harder to achieve that result. I suggest they go to the police station and say it to the officer’s face.

As for the tourist, judiciary rules say that she is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court, and I, for one, have the patience to wait for the court decision. Incidentally, this legal presumption of innocence applies even in a case of strong prima facia evidence or a confession and it does not imply that an accusation is false -- it is simply how the justice system works.

The justice system is sadly not above the influence of money ,status or corruption ....wait as long as you like for a court decision ,easy and often beneficial if you're a Thai national ....not so easy if you are not . Come back in 2 years to face a Thai court , with everything loaded against you , or swallow your pride and walk away from the bail money posted ?

Not above the influence of money, status, and corruption? Are there any other influences?

[TomTao]

Silly girl, the overstay was easily handled, all she had to do was pay and that would have been it, but pocketing an Immigration officer's camera, big mistake.

Suspicious - Not many Immigration officers keep cameras on their desk, but many many tourists routinely carry cameras.

Logically, it was her camera and was only an excuse to extort money.

Such is so common, as in motorbike - automobile accident, the auto driver is most often prosecuted, because he has more money than the motorbike driver. Most such accidents are due to careless motorbike operation.

I have been to that office a number if times and seen them using a small camera to take photos of documents and passports, they may also use it to take photos of people who break the law, so there just may have been a camera on a desk there, whether she actually picked it up or not will become known in time.

[chuang]

Pure arrogance...she is lucky it is not one of those jails in the middle east.....

[SouthernMan3]

Yet another one giving the Thais that all us Falang are Stitty.

Thanks dumb chick.

Boot her and never let her back again !

[ALFREDO]

Why on earth didn't the authorities contact the Swiss Embassy informing them of her arrest?

If it wasn't for pure luck she could have been in jail for a very long time.

Do the Thai authorities have to do that? Would it not be the young woman who should try to contact anybody?

[ALFREDO]

Was she not even allowed a phone call? By no means am I standing up for her because IMO she could have handled that situation a whole lot better, but seems strange her family had to go through all that trouble just to find out where she was. I'm guessing she just had a bad attitude in general and pissed off the immigration officers, so they threw her in a jail cell and made her wait for a court appearance instead of trying to help her. I probably would have done the same thing if I were them actually (well maybe not, depends on her attitude). No excuse for that kind of behaviour on her part though.

Maybe, she was embarrassed from herself and did not want to contact anybody. By the way her name sounds she has Eastern European-Russian roots,

cannot know if that had to do with her attitude of stealing and not wanting to contacting anybody, as it seems and her attitude!

[unanimosity]

I really find it amusing (aka sad) that most here are so quick to defend this girl regarding the camera. Nobody here knows this girl from Adam. She could be a freakin nutjob. She could be a kleptomaniac. The immigration officers could have used the camera to take her photo (since she was being arrested) and she didn't like that so she tried to steal the camera. She could be a snobbish self-intitled pratt who thinks she's above the law or shouldn't be held accountable to the same laws as everyone else. She could have gotten a piss poor attitude that she was being arrested and decided to steal a camera out of retaliation. She could have been low on funds (not able to afford the 1500 baht overstay) so she thought she could pawn the camera to make some fast cash. She could have some prejudiced attitube that she's smarter than thai people and they wouldn't be smart enough to search her/figure out that the camera wasn't hers. She could just be a stupid beyotch.

I also find it amusing (aka really sad) that people assume she's a saint just because she's a university student from Switzerland. News flash people, university students can do stupid things! Shocking I know considering I've never heard of a university student doing something stupid/making a stupid decision while visitng Thailand.

But carry on putting this girl up on a pedestal simply because she's a fair skinned maiden from the land of Swiss Miss.

All those coulds in one post and not one iota of substance. If you were not Thai and had ever gone through immigration you would know that they use a web cam not a Canon to document pax. As for your last sentence, the one that gives you away, the putting on pedestals of fair-skinned maidens is, by and large, a local cultural predisposition.

[ALFREDO]

This story just doesn't add up, and I am not accusing anyone of anything. It's just bloody bizarre.

"Bloody bizarre" -so are some people.

Remember the Altered Visa of VIP, Christoph of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, son of Ira von Fuerstenberg?

he would only have to pay 4? days Overstay,but decided to alter his Entry-Exit stamp and was imprisoned. died in Thai prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Christoph_of_Hohenlohe-Langenburg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_von_F%C3%BCrstenberg

"He died on 6 August 2006 of massive organ failure a few days after being imprisoned in Klong Prem Central Prison in Bangkok on charges of suspicion of illegally altering a visa. His health had been weakened from a weight-loss regimen at a Thai wellness center."

[ALFREDO]

Did I miss something?

Where is the evidence that this young lady stole a camera, and is now or was required to pay 130,000 baht for its replacement?

I'd like to know what kind of immigration officer can afford a 130,000 baht camera to sit in his/her office - cos a top Nikon with zoom lens and additional lenses is only 70K !!!

-mel.

it is -bail- for her release not the cost of the camera!

[gatorsoft]

Heck, I thought perhaps I could make a difference in the forum discourse by pointing out early on the probability that none of the "facts" are correct.

If it is a probability that none of the "facts" are correct, then perhaps it was actually a 60 year old American male on a work visa that was holed up in a hotel popping ya ba and having sex with children. If we don't start with some of the "facts", there can be no discourse at all. You should have left it at your first post instead of slipping into absurdity. You were right: everything here is speculation. Some of that speculation might be based on one's personal experiences in Thailand, or simply based on logic or personal prejudices, but still just speculation. Without speculation and personal opinions this forum would be empty. My only complaint about posting such is when it is presented as fact.

Having said that, I ask ricklev: Are you willing to stipulate to any of the facts? Was it a 22 year old Swiss woman? Did she have a 15 day stamp in her passport (let's not get hung up on the semantics of visa versus 15 day waiver)? Was she confronted by immigration officers? Did she overstay? Did a camera exist? Has she been held in prison? All inclusive statements like yours are just as ridiculous as any speculation.

[gatorsoft]

Quite a few posters seem eager to go to jail for defamation, judging from their posts suggesting, implying or stating outright that a police officer falsely accused this tourist of theft, but I believe they have to try harder to achieve that result. I suggest they go to the police station and say it to the officer’s face.

As for the tourist, judiciary rules say that she is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court, and I, for one, have the patience to wait for the court decision. Incidentally, this legal presumption of innocence applies even in a case of strong prima facia evidence or a confession and it does not imply that an accusation is false -- it is simply how the justice system works.

The justice system is sadly not above the influence of money ,status or corruption ....wait as long as you like for a court decision ,easy and often beneficial if you're a Thai national ....not so easy if you are not . Come back in 2 years to face a Thai court , with everything loaded against you , or swallow your pride and walk away from the bail money posted ?

Not above the influence of money, status, and corruption? Are there any other influences?

Sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll!

[Pops]

This Thai actor "Phee" gets a bail set at 200,000 THB for a murder charge and this girl 130,000 THB for stealing a camera ???

Wow !!!

[Somrak]

This is in one way simple. The law is clear, if any foreigner is detained by the authorities [in all their manifold guises] they are required to advise the individual's embassy as a matte of urgency. No ifs, buts, or maybes.

This is serious breach whatever the circumstances. It is even more troubling that an individual should be held apparently incommunicado and the tale is then that she is guilty of a crime [but has not been brought before a court] to excuse this failure to meet basic legal safeguards.

Even if she is guilty of any crime the requirement to notify stands.

Y E S !!! ..... and if she had, as stated, a Tourist - Visa, she did not to have to pay at all.!?

[theajarn]

Nice bail. I read over and over about bail for Thai politicians that go only into five Thai digits.

...and for a camera... and a bit more.

There's more that we're not hearing about. I really doubt she'd be stupid enough to do what she did. One thing is pretty certain -- she must have been scared and done something stupid, but I doubt the camera thing is it. The Thais just need a good excuse to squeeze some money out of her parents.

The real filthy dogs in this story are the ones pushing the papers.

[theajarn]

This Thai actor "Phee" gets a bail set at 200,000 THB for a murder charge and this girl 130,000 THB for stealing a camera ???

Wow !!!

Amazing Thailand, isn't it?

[Wombat6]

This story made me wonder what was the mental state of this woman and poses a few questions. Was she travelling alone ? Did she throw a tantrum in the Immigration office. Why would a camera be lying around on a desk? Obviously she had been in Thailand already for at least 30 days. Did she have any drug abuse history? (Ranong is famous for having invented the concoction of 1-2 Call (Google it )Did she have any mental health issues?. No use speculating until all the facts emerge

[ALFREDO]

so you get bail for murder, rape and other serious offences, yet you steal a 5000 baht camera and go to jail.. comical

She had no money for that sum of bail and as it seems,did not want to contact anybody. Ashamed?

Or, was not allowed? I do not believe that, she was not allowed to contact somebody!

Edited January 24, 2013 by ALFREDO

[Puccini]

At this stage, you can only believe her version or the immigration officer's.

Pick your choice.

What is her version? I do not see it mentioned in the news article.

I have now found her version. It is in fact right there in the news article in the OP, the second to the last paragraph:

“She was charged with overstaying her visa and with theft. She confessed to the overstay, but denied stealing the camera. She was then transferred to Ranong Prison while awaiting her case to be heard in court,” he added.

[A_Traveller]

^ ]Hm to be pedantic ... no you haven't, you have "found" a statement made by an officer, Cpl Rungroj, not the lady herself. Therefore it is not "her" version is it?

Regards

Edit remove unnecessary quotes

Edited January 24, 2013 by A_Traveller

[Puccini]

By the way her name sounds she has Eastern European-Russian roots,

cannot know if that had to do with her attitude of stealing and not wanting to contacting anybody, as it seems and her attitude!

Trying your hand at racism, are you? Not that it matters as far as I can see but like many family names of Swiss citizens the name Janisch has its origin in Germany.

Source: http://www.houseofnames.com/janisch-family-crest

[ALFREDO]

And yes people who murder, steal and whatnot, wether foreigner or Thai can get bail in a couple of days and basically get off Scot Free more or less ... but small minute and ridiculous offenders like this have to go through this non sense of almost life & death threat .... Logic here please ...??????????????????????

You can pay Bail, if you have the money for it. Did she have the money? And maybe was ashamed to contact anybody.

[ricklev]

Heck, I thought perhaps I could make a difference in the forum discourse by pointing out early on the probability that none of the "facts" are correct.

If it is a probability that none of the "facts" are correct, then perhaps it was actually a 60 year old American male on a work visa that was holed up in a hotel popping ya ba and having sex with children. If we don't start with some of the "facts", there can be no discourse at all. You should have left it at your first post instead of slipping into absurdity. You were right: everything here is speculation. Some of that speculation might be based on one's personal experiences in Thailand, or simply based on logic or personal prejudices, but still just speculation. Without speculation and personal opinions this forum would be empty. My only complaint about posting such is when it is presented as fact.

Having said that, I ask ricklev: Are you willing to stipulate to any of the facts? Was it a 22 year old Swiss woman? Did she have a 15 day stamp in her passport (let's not get hung up on the semantics of visa versus 15 day waiver)? Was she confronted by immigration officers? Did she overstay? Did a camera exist? Has she been held in prison? All inclusive statements like yours are just as ridiculous as any speculation.

Probably a woman, I admit. I wouldn't trust the accuracy of any other "fact" presented.