Are Older Men in Thailand Trading Love for Financial Ruin

[cjk]

Hi Everyone...this is my first post so please let me know if I should be posting this under another category.

I have been teaching in Thailand for several years and am attempting to switch back to writing/editing/copy writing (5 years experience in America prior to teaching). It appears I am being offered a job at a marketing firm that staffs about 50 people and has a target market that is primarily in America. Because they are expanding in America they need an American (me) with project management experience (me) who has several years experience in editing and writing (me). The title would be either editor or head writer or both, and would be responsible for ALL content in the organization, leading a small team of about 10 people (mostly Thai and some Filipino writers). The hours are standard 9-6, but of course many employees seem to work evenings and even some Saturdays. I would be the only native English speaker in the organization.

The organization is currently asking me for salary expectations. Unfortunately I can't find much information about a position specifically like this that requires a native English speaker and writer. I only told them what I currently make, 52k-60k a month, (they quickly said "yes that's within our range" which makes me think those are very low numbers) but that I can't say more until I know more specifics about the job responsibilities.

They seem to be really pushing for a number before we move on with the process (I have had one interview already that went well). Does anyone have any information on this sort of position, or a website I could check out for average farang salaries? I already tried adecco but it looks like that is generally thai salaries. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[fletchsmile]

Yes it's very common in Thailand for people to just look at your salary and add on x%. This can end up with people just stuck in a rut, as "well paid" or poorly paid, as many HR departments don't "right-size" salaries and just do "cost plus x" for what it takes to hire. They then often don't bother that people do similar jobs at similar levels within their firm and just see it as the way it is. So you're right to want to get it right from the start

You need to to position yourself, with reasoned thoughts put across with things like:

- teaching was a temporary line to settle into Thailand, and of course you realise you could have got more, but....

- copy writing or editing is of course a more valued added task to a company

- good copy writers are in short supply (unlike teachers) - BTW I'm not beating up teachers here, just saying you need to justify your worth

- you've quoted your existing salary

- as a reference tell them what you earned as a skilled and experienced person in this field in the US. At least now you will have raised your worth in their eyes (as short sightedly many can't see past what you're paid now)

- from there you can say of course $xxx may not be realistic for Thailand, but as you've raised the bar, you could then quite openly say you're not that familar with Thailand and ask what their budget is or what they think it should be. You know it should be more than an English teacher but recognise lower than US

In terms of numbers, I can tell you that about 7 or 8 years ago I was CFO for a small group of companies. One company in the group was similar size and had 2 copy writers/ editors earning around THB 70k month. The firm was foreign owned and run, with Thai shareholders who had invested but didn't do much day to day. They generally paid above average in their sectors, but that was a few years back, so to me your numbers look low,

If I were you I'd arrange another meeting and chat face to face with them - much better than phone or email. Negotiating using points above to arrive at a suitable mid-point, where you and they both feel comfortable.

Their flexibility and how they address it will also be an indication of what they're like to work for as well as future issues that come up. i.e if they low ball you take it or leave it style or whether they actually care and want to compromise.

Edited January 24, 2013 by fletchsmile

[cjk]

fletchsmile thank you so much for taking the time to give me such a detailed reply. I don't want to bash teachers either (I am one!) but they are indeed in high supply here in Bangkok. This position seems to be looking for someone with very specific qualifications, and I have a feeling they don't have many foreigners knocking on their door right now (but as always, who knows?). I'm glad you said I should mention what my salary was in the states as a point of reference (not a demand) because I was considering doing this but was nervous about throwing out such a large number. I think mentioning it, followed by stating my understanding that here in Thailand the salary may be lower, and then asking what there budget is for this kind of niche position is a good idea. I'll also take your advice and no longer discuss salary via email or the phone....face to face only from here on out.

One note: The company appears to be 'foreign-owned" by Americans, but seems to be strictly run by Thais. There target market is now shifting towards American buyers only (hence the need for an American writer/editor). Would you consider this an "international" company as it is owned by Americans but run by Thais.

Thanks for the numbers....the more and more I look at this 60k seems extremely low, especially if your copy editors were not managing and those numbers are from 7 years ago.

all the best...

[cjk]

p.s. I'm chuckling a bit at the my horrible grammar and spelling in these replies as I discuss my "worth" as a writer/editor....hehe