Health Insurance Vs. Self Insurance: Your Thoughts?

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed.

[pinfold]

I'm sure Malaysian health care will be flooded shortly with all Thais and foreigners living in Thailand going there for the free healthcare.

From what I ascertain Thais have their own health care system in place,the GF flashed her ID card last week at the dentist obviously used as per their health system,and I would not think Thais are particularly welcomed in Malaysia,I get that impression generally when there with the GF

Do not think foreigners generally can get off their <deleted> to explore other options than that of where they live

Be it Thai private insurance or govt (30 baht a month thing) or whatever that exists for Thais as per their health system,yes flash the ID card, I personally am not in the least bit interested in it The sole interest personally is to steer as far away from it as is possible,and quite possibly advise what is on offer elsewhere

[stevenl]

I'm sure Malaysian health care will be flooded shortly with all Thais and foreigners living in Thailand going there for the free healthcare.

From what I ascertain Thais have their own health care system in place,the GF flashed her ID card last week at the dentist obviously used as per their health system,and I would not think Thais are particularly welcomed in Malaysia,I get that impression generally when there with the GF

Do not think foreigners generally can get off their <deleted> to explore other options than that of where they live

Be it Thai private insurance or govt (30 baht a month thing) or whatever that exists for Thais as per their health system,yes flash the ID card, I personally am not in the least bit interested in it The sole interest personally is to steer as far away from it as is possible,and quite possibly advise what is on offer elsewhere

Why are you even 'contributing' to this thread, as you obviously have no idea, but even worse, are calimhg things that are blatently wrong (my girlfriend received free dental care, in Malaysia health care is free to foreigners, etc.).

[TexasRanger]

Forget the "hopping in a plane" idea, I had a problem a couple of years ago where long haul flying wasn't acceptable, I was traveling on business at the time and was in Amsterdam and luckily allowed to make the short flight to stay with family in the UK, I couldn't come home to Thailand for a further 2 months. Also what if you had a herniated disc, imagine a plane rude with that discomfort.

[pinfold]

Forget the "hopping in a plane" idea, I had a problem a couple of years ago where long haul flying wasn't acceptable, I was traveling on business at the time and was in Amsterdam and luckily allowed to make the short flight to stay with family in the UK, I couldn't come home to Thailand for a further 2 months. Also what if you had a herniated disc, imagine a plane rude with that discomfort.

There are trains,there are vehicles traversing stretchers if Malaysia is on your mind,there are even airlines accepting stretcher cases for seat price(one per flight) Air India for one

Options are there I have been/seen/witnessed hospitalisation in both mentioned countries,superb

Its choice at the end of the day,Ive been here a fair few years,and no way do I want to get involved with anything remotely medical in Thailand,yes if and when time comes up for a re-charge I hope I'm fit and able enough to stagger aboard a vehicle to get me to hell out of it,just like this coming Friday....up and away

Edited April 8, 2013 by pinfold

[Rimmer]

Flame also a quoted reply remved

[isawasnake]

One of the most important points always seems to get left out of these discussions. When you are sick, and broke, you have some of the best negotiating leverage you will ever have. Why do you think medical bills are so high? Because people with a 1 million baht bill paid 300k and are free and clear. If you want to "take the high road", fine, but realize all you are doing is just being a sucker. Putting your money into something like insurance that makes you feel secure is great, i'm not really trying to knock it, but the guy above is acting like 70k baht is nothing.... i mean, i want to use that money to actually do things and live life. I dont want to hand it over every year and line some insurance executive's pockets. To each their own, but don't forget about negotiating leverage is my only point. You simply can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. I prefer the credit card self insure method myself, I just don't see that it is even much of a question, at least for me.

Edited April 8, 2013 by isawasnake

[JLCrab]

I don't know how one presumes that even paying 70k baht per year for good health insurance means one then does not have enough money left over to enjoy things and live life. Living life being broke all the time seems more of a sucker move to me.

[JoePai]

One of the most important points always seems to get left out of these discussions. When you are sick, and broke, you have some of the best negotiating leverage you will ever have. Why do you think medical bills are so high? Because people with a 1 million baht bill paid 300k and are free and clear. If you want to "take the high road", fine, but realize all you are doing is just being a sucker. Putting your money into something like insurance that makes you feel secure is great, i'm not really trying to knock it, but the guy above is acting like 70k baht is nothing.... i mean, i want to use that money to actually do things and live life. I dont want to hand it over every year and line some insurance executive's pockets. To each their own, but don't forget about negotiating leverage is my only point. You simply can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. I prefer the credit card self insure method myself, I just don't see that it is even much of a question, at least for me.

I would suggest quite the opposite - you can be left outside the hospital until you can contact a few friends to come and bail you out (then you find out who your friends are)

CC : You are lucky, the BKK Bank would only give me a 100k Baht credit line on my CC

[JLCrab]

Again, to the post above about handing over money to the insurance company as being a sucker, I hope i get real sick next year and have a hospital bill multiple times my many years' total paid-in premium just to show you guys.

(Or just another case of impossible to prove the negative)

Edited April 8, 2013 by JLCrab

[jbrain]

One of the most important points always seems to get left out of these discussions. When you are sick, and broke, you have some of the best negotiating leverage you will ever have. Why do you think medical bills are so high? Because people with a 1 million baht bill paid 300k and are free and clear. If you want to "take the high road", fine, but realize all you are doing is just being a sucker. Putting your money into something like insurance that makes you feel secure is great, i'm not really trying to knock it, but the guy above is acting like 70k baht is nothing.... i mean, i want to use that money to actually do things and live life. I dont want to hand it over every year and line some insurance executive's pockets. To each their own, but don't forget about negotiating leverage is my only point. You simply can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. I prefer the credit card self insure method myself, I just don't see that it is even much of a question, at least for me.

I would suggest quite the opposite - you can be left outside the hospital until you can contact a few friends to come and bail you out (then you find out who your friends are)

CC : You are lucky, the BKK Bank would only give me a 100k Baht credit line on my CC

You beat me to it. It is a well known fact that hospitals in Thailand let you die outside on the alley if your unconsious when brought in and don't have money on you.

I think there was not so long ago a a topic in the Pattaya forum regarding such a situation.

If you need the 70.000 Baht a year, or less than 6000 Baht a month, to live your life I assume the life isn't much in itself.

You should realise how vulnerable you are to very high medical costs at an old age.

Edited April 8, 2013 by jbrain

[Morden]

Many expats. fail to consider future health and how they might deal with it. Yes, you may be able to pay for an air fare to get treatment in another country. On the other hand, if you are rushed to a local ICU and need urgent surgery, you won't be flying anywhere. As we reach old age, we can be struck with a serious and incapacitating illness very suddenly. Without insurance or at least THB1m, probably more, that you can spare for that particular treatment, you can find yourself in deep dodo.

[Ace of Pop]

You mean doing a Bunk back to the U.K. fora NHS Freebie cause yer Broke. The Medical care here is better. Folks Fly here for Quick Treatment and a Nice Room to U.S Standards.

[pinfold]

One of the most important points always seems to get left out of these discussions. When you are sick, and broke, you have some of the best negotiating leverage you will ever have. Why do you think medical bills are so high? Because people with a 1 million baht bill paid 300k and are free and clear. If you want to "take the high road", fine, but realize all you are doing is just being a sucker. Putting your money into something like insurance that makes you feel secure is great, i'm not really trying to knock it, but the guy above is acting like 70k baht is nothing.... i mean, i want to use that money to actually do things and live life. I dont want to hand it over every year and line some insurance executive's pockets. To each their own, but don't forget about negotiating leverage is my only point. You simply can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. I prefer the credit card self insure method myself, I just don't see that it is even much of a question, at least for me.

This is a good quote,why would anybody stay in Thailand for medical treatment if you had a million whatever in the bank?,cheap insurance when young,damned expensive when old,and yes insurance companies are there to make money

Experience for me suggests medical care in Thailand is a crock of shit Whacked leg in Spain couple of years ago,could not see a doctor as on way to Barcelona urgently to catch plane to BKK.

Totted myself around quite a few hospitals when I arrived back in Thailand,x rays blah blah blah,advice ,pills by the crate full,just knew advice was all horse shit ,pain killers probably the most effective,even though yes I have the dough to get it fixed privately if I did decide on Thailand it would have money ill spent,was having quotes of $40,000,min of $12000 just for the op,then plus ,plus plus plus,so flew to India,private room for 24 hours ,two surgeons ,an anesthetist,two dozen nurses around me , only white man around and that was $700,best $700 I ever spent,took a few weeks for pain to diminish,then AOK

[pinfold]

...and one could say not having medical insurance for 15 or so, as I lived in other countries,that's erm 15 years of insurance premiums saved(save for the $700 ) in India and then I dosed myself with every medical test available to the human body,so I would suggest a positive saving when applied to Thailand's savagery

Yes a coconut could land on my head blah blah blah but I think especially while I'm in Thailand Ill take my chances of that not happening

[JLCrab]

I guess one can say as above that I've not had insurance for X number of years and I haven't had any major setback so -- being way ahead of the game as compared to the hoi polloi suckers who paid those annual premiums and never had any major claims -- I'll continue to take my chances.

Only thing for certain is that, as one ages, those chances go increasingly in one's disfavor.

[poanoi]

Like any other business, insurance companies is based on making money,

so on an average the insurance cost more than paying as you go.

Not only for profit for the insurance company & shareholders, but also staff, office, etc.

Edited April 8, 2013 by poanoi

[JLCrab]

For the lucky persons who have no or few major medical maladies, the odds are that they will not get back from the health insurer over the course of time much more than the total of premiums paid-in or maybe even less. Such persons to several posters herein are labeled as 'suckers'. But that really isn't the reason you buy the insurance:

You buy it just in case you become one of the very few unlucky persons who has one or more major medical events that cost the insurer far more than the total of premiums paid in. Of those few unlucky, probably close to 100% thought it would never happen to them.

[isawasnake]

Like any other business, insurance companies is based on making money,

so on an average the insurance cost more than paying as you go.

Not only for profit for the insurance company & shareholders, but also staff, office, etc.

That is exactly how I think about it, and how I WISH others would too

Simply put:

Through insurance we pay for insurance overhead, profit margins, AND care.

On our own we pay for (drum roll please)............... Care!

That;s why I say credit card is the best, if possible. The equation just seems really simple, but I do respect everybody's right to feel comfortable when it comes to this stuff. It isn't easy, and people have different philosophies.

Edited April 8, 2013 by isawasnake

[pinfold]

I guess one can say as above that I've not had insurance for X number of years and I haven't had any major setback so -- being way ahead of the game as compared to the hoi polloi suckers who paid those annual premiums and never had any major claims -- I'll continue to take my chances.

Only thing for certain is that, as one ages, those chances go increasingly in one's disfavor.

Ahead of the game? I tell you the older you get the more expensive insurance premiums are,you think for one minute an insurance company here in Thailand would keep you indefinitely on its books as a geriatric, if it looked as though you were going to cost them in the long run,you would be offloaded like shit off a shovel as soon as...

Looking at insurance cover here in Thailand,obviously the cheapest is Thailand specific insurance,not the more expensive worldwide ,which is way over the top, now since the leg whacking incident in Spain a couple of years ago,Ive done France a few times ,UK too,Burma,Vietnam ,Lombok, Malaysia more than a dozen times,,PH last month Yellowstone coming up in June.

For certain if I had medical insurance in Thailand I would never move out of Thailand,Id be too frightened

You can tick India in with that lot,off there this Friday for my "live another 100 years" Dri-Pack battery pack being fitted!

Edited April 9, 2013 by pinfold

[JLCrab]

Thank you for the edification that I may be looked at as sh-t. I spent many years traveling to India and you can have it. Even being SongKran week and a slow day, I think I've had about enough.

[pinfold]

Thank you for the edification that I may be looked at as sh-t. I spent many years traveling to India and you can have it. Even being SongKran week and a slow day, I think I've had about enough.

Get yourself down to the doctor,no thoughts of suicide I hope,do not think that is covered!!!

[richard_smith237]

For the lucky persons who have no or few major medical maladies, the odds are that they will not get back from the health insurer over the course of time much more than the total of premiums paid-in or maybe even less. Such persons to several posters herein are labeled as 'suckers'. But that really isn't the reason you buy the insurance:

You buy it just in case you become one of the very few unlucky persons who has one or more major medical events that cost the insurer far more than the total of premiums paid in. Of those few unlucky, probably close to 100% thought it would never happen to them.

Indeed... This sucker required a medivac (after a DVT at an age of 36 yrs)... Total Bill: About US$50,000... so was I lucky to have insurance? I was not stupid enough to hope I'd be one of the people nothing ever happens to.

Perhaps you don't need insurance if you never plan on travelling away from a centre of medical excellence, always have a lump sum of money sitting ready in an account and have someone with power of attorney over your accounts who can access the cash in a medical emergency.

[manjara]

I'm insured through work at the moment, but when that ends, my plan was always to get some 'catastrophic illness insurance', i.e. with a big excess, and then keep about, ohhh, I don't know, 800k ( ) in the bank, perhaps adding a few thousand every month that I save by not having a more comprehensive insurance.

[pinfold]

For the lucky persons who have no or few major medical maladies, the odds are that they will not get back from the health insurer over the course of time much more than the total of premiums paid-in or maybe even less. Such persons to several posters herein are labeled as 'suckers'. But that really isn't the reason you buy the insurance:

You buy it just in case you become one of the very few unlucky persons who has one or more major medical events that cost the insurer far more than the total of premiums paid in. Of those few unlucky, probably close to 100% thought it would never happen to them.

Indeed... This sucker required a medivac (after a DVT at an age of 36 yrs)... Total Bill: About US$50,000... so was I lucky to have insurance? I was not stupid enough to hope I'd be one of the people nothing ever happens to.

Perhaps you don't need insurance if you never plan on travelling away from a centre of medical excellence, always have a lump sum of money sitting ready in an account and have someone with power of attorney over your accounts who can access the cash in a medical emergency.

Hell $50.000?,should have taken the Air India option of one stretcher case per flight,.....probably come in at under $2000

[JLCrab]

The BUPA Thailand Platinum policy document Table of Benefits says: "...If you join before the age of 61 and are continuously insured, renewal is guaranteed for life." Such document is registered with the Thailand Office Insurance Commission (OIC).

BTW as mentioned before, BUPA Thailand is a provident association and doesn't have any shareholders.

And from the BUPA Thailand website (all advertising claims are binding as per OIC regulation):

Guarantee lifetime renewal

You can renew your policy with us for lifelong if you apply your health insurance before 60 years old. It guarantees you that you will always be protected by Bupa even if you are at your old ages.

Edited April 9, 2013 by JLCrab

[pinfold]

The BUPA Thailand Platinum policy document Table of Benefits says: "...If you join before the age of 61 and are continuously insured, renewal is guaranteed for life." Such document is registered with the Thailand Office Insurance Commission (OIC).

BTW as mentioned before, BUPA Thailand is a provident association and doesn't have any shareholders.

And from the BUPA Thailand website (all advertising claims are binding as per OIC regulation):

Guarantee lifetime renewal

You can renew your policy with us for lifelong if you apply your health insurance before 60 years old. It guarantees you that you will always be protected by Bupa even if you are at your old ages.

Sure,if you do not mind a renewal quote of half a million,rising by 20% a year or something like.

[JLCrab]

I thought they were were going to drop me like a shovel of ... Now it's half a million baht or 20% annual premium increase or something like that -- Is this something of which you have specific knowledge or just some urban legend you heard while in Goa?

[pinfold]

I thought they were were going to drop me like a shovel of ... Now it's half a million baht or 20% annual premium increase or something like that -- Is this something of which you have specific knowledge or just some urban legend you heard while in Goa?

Good luck in your expectations of your "old ages" BUPA (Thailand) health insurance, especially stiffened by OIC regulations,now that must be something written in stone (whatever is expected from it),personally I would not trust my own shadow of any issued guarantees,or for that matter anything that is said/done/ promised or guaranteed in Thailand,think Id trust the local bar girls" love me too much" spiel before any of the peddled trash.

Specific knowledge, yes? farang,a year or two under 60 years of age,and not living a million metres away from I, ,whoever insurance wise he was with stumped up around one mil for quite a critical illness,then cut him off He self funded another 3 mil out of his own pocket here in Thailand, then threw his hands up at that point, returning to whence he came. Not going into the ins and outs of treatment received but he was disappointed to say the least.

Was either his age, or his insurance company could see a bottomless pit looming . I see him now and again,proud guy ,feel sorry for him hobbling around after returning to Thailand.

Yes have seen the pre 60/65s ,post 60/65s benefits on offer,more than a shock to see reduced benefits coupled with sharp spike in fees,have you looked?

Nice to be "flip" about things,especially in Thailand,but good to see absolute faith being placed into whatever institution here in LOS

Where is the OIC office anyway?,the last banana tree after turning left after falling off the bar stool.?

[isawasnake]

One of the most important points always seems to get left out of these discussions. When you are sick, and broke, you have some of the best negotiating leverage you will ever have. Why do you think medical bills are so high? Because people with a 1 million baht bill paid 300k and are free and clear. If you want to "take the high road", fine, but realize all you are doing is just being a sucker. Putting your money into something like insurance that makes you feel secure is great, i'm not really trying to knock it, but the guy above is acting like 70k baht is nothing.... i mean, i want to use that money to actually do things and live life. I dont want to hand it over every year and line some insurance executive's pockets. To each their own, but don't forget about negotiating leverage is my only point. You simply can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. I prefer the credit card self insure method myself, I just don't see that it is even much of a question, at least for me.

I would suggest quite the opposite - you can be left outside the hospital until you can contact a few friends to come and bail you out (then you find out who your friends are)

CC : You are lucky, the BKK Bank would only give me a 100k Baht credit line on my CC

You beat me to it. It is a well known fact that hospitals in Thailand let you die outside on the alley if your unconsious when brought in and don't have money on you.

I think there was not so long ago a a topic in the Pattaya forum regarding such a situation.

If you need the 70.000 Baht a year, or less than 6000 Baht a month, to live your life I assume the life isn't much in itself.

You should realise how vulnerable you are to very high medical costs at an old age.

I have my home country credit cards, which I really dont use anymore. One of them has 20k dollars on it. One of them. I dont know, like I said, this isn't brain surgery, or is it?

The reference I made to being broke and sick would be AFTER treatment. You'd have great negotiating power at this point; think about it, take this or you are screwed. What can they say?

Edited April 9, 2013 by isawasnake