How Long Till All Russians Are Rounded Up

[phuketrichard]

First in kata /Karon, shutting their tour agencies down

now ChernTalay

how long till the thai's stop allowing them in to set up business and undercutting them and it starts turning ugly?

[eezergood]

You think it will happen, look at Jomtien !

[Guest]

You think it will happen, look at Jomtien !

I would like to know what did happen there between Thais and Russians What was the starting point and what is the situation today.

[steelepulse]

At some point it will get ugly, I just hope I'm not close by!

[huuwi]

and then start shutting down all the foreign run diving enterprises and restaurants.

why not let the russian run there business, better then the big spenders from china.

[taninthai]

It's a sad day when lo-so tuk tuk drivers dictate who runs what bussinesses

[pagallim]

At some point it will get ugly, I just hope I'm not close by!

For sure, and Russians are not intimidated easily that's for sure. Any actual violence handed out by Thais is almost certainly going to be reciprocated.

On the up side, an escalation of this conflict is going to raise the profile of the root cause (the cartels that exist for fleecing tourists through forcing them to use tuk tuks and taxis), to diplomatic levels (if it's not already there). A lack of Russian clientele would seriously hurt Phuket's hotel occupancy that's for sure, and where would the replacement tourists come from?

[Guest]

I have not even driven trough Pattaya for the past 5 years, so I don't know what is going on there. Some rumors say that Pattaya is under control of Russian mafia. If this is true, then it would be good to know how did things happen.. to be able to predict what could happen in Phuket.

One maybe possible scenario for Phuket is: The first wave will bring normal business to Phuket, people who wish to invest here and make money with their businesses. When this fails due local protests some of these people will go away.

However some will not and this will result violent attacks. At this point it's time to call the big boys with their motorbikes for security. Now we have organized mafias on both sides of the fence. This might throw some shit to the fan, like steelepulse mentioned.

After an while, the rudest of the gangs will take the 'security' of Phuket to their hands.. and will collect tax for the work.

[JetsetBkk]

Just goes to show that the governor, vice governor, Or Bor Jor, etc. don't give a tinker's cuss and don't have any real power on this mafia infested island.

[NamKangMan]

I have not even driven trough Pattaya for the past 5 years, so I don't know what is going on there. Some rumors say that Pattaya is under control of Russian mafia. If this is true, then it would be good to know how did things happen.. to be able to predict what could happen in Phuket.

One maybe possible scenario for Phuket is: The first wave will bring normal business to Phuket, people who wish to invest here and make money with their businesses. When this fails due local protests some of these people will go away.

However some will not and this will result violent attacks. At this point it's time to call the big boys with their motorbikes for security. Now we have organized mafias on both sides of the fence. This might throw some shit to the fan, like steelepulse mentioned.

After an while, the rudest of the gangs will take the 'security' of Phuket to their hands.. and will collect tax for the work.

Just because Russians in Pattaya are paying bribes to have Russian staff, doesn't mean they are mafia.

In general, in Pattaya, the Thai's are happy - they get a monthly payment.

The Russian owner is happy - he makes a bit of money.

The Russian tourists are happy - they have a Russian speaking guide, menus etc and are with fellow Russians.

This BS is only happening on "Planet Phuket" - not all over Thailand.

The baht buses in Pattaya don't care if Russians jump on the back for a ride or not - but on Phuket, well, you can see the lengths the tuk-tuks go to to make sure tourists must have to use them.

We are expats and chose to live here, but, like Alex Tours, a Russian can walk into a travel agent in Russia and he can be told, "Don't go to Phuket, there is a problem with transport there. I can sell you the same holiday to Thailand in a place called Pattaya. and for a cheaper price."

The travel agent has just done what Alex Tours has done, but there is nothing the tuk-tuks can do about it. In this case, the bottom line is, less tourists to Phuket, and it's probably already happening.

[Kananga]

At some point it will get ugly, I just hope I'm not close by!

For sure, and Russians are not intimidated easily that's for sure. Any actual violence handed out by Thais is almost certainly going to be reciprocated.

On the up side, an escalation of this conflict is going to raise the profile of the root cause (the cartels that exist for fleecing tourists through forcing them to use tuk tuks and taxis), to diplomatic levels (if it's not already there). A lack of Russian clientele would seriously hurt Phuket's hotel occupancy that's for sure, and where would the replacement tourists come from?

Incredible India

[tingtongtourist]

I wonder is there any truth about this rumor that its very easy for the Russians to start up business in Phukhet....?

Maybe just have to know where to go, to the special desk and ask " I hear you can buy a license to open a ...... business here, How much?

So very easy, actually probably anyone can do it.

And these people is even so considerate that when you come back for the finish paperwork they advise.."Very hard for foriener like you to fill out paperwork for tax, all write in Thai, No Problem..i come along to shop every month to collect tax"

It will be like the lawabing jetski and tuk tuk who will pay their fair share of tax, as long as keep getting paid dont expect to ever see the end of them

[schlog]

At some point it will get ugly, I just hope I'm not close by!

For sure, and Russians are not intimidated easily that's for sure. Any actual violence handed out by Thais is almost certainly going to be reciprocated.

On the up side, an escalation of this conflict is going to raise the profile of the root cause (the cartels that exist for fleecing tourists through forcing them to use tuk tuks and taxis), to diplomatic levels (if it's not already there). A lack of Russian clientele would seriously hurt Phuket's hotel occupancy that's for sure, and where would the replacement tourists come from?

Bangladesh.

[daiwill60]

At some point it will get ugly, I just hope I'm not close by!

For sure, and Russians are not intimidated easily that's for sure. Any actual violence handed out by Thais is almost certainly going to be reciprocated.

On the up side, an escalation of this conflict is going to raise the profile of the root cause (the cartels that exist for fleecing tourists through forcing them to use tuk tuks and taxis), to diplomatic levels (if it's not already there). A lack of Russian clientele would seriously hurt Phuket's hotel occupancy that's for sure, and where would the replacement tourists come from?

Bangladesh.

Myanmar, when the wealth of its citizens is surpassing the Thais, and they can afford holidays many thais cannot and can speak more than one language ie the language of Asean, but woah woah! kind of rules Thailand out as an ideal destination in the future doesnt it, if they cannot speak english? Myammar may actually become the next Holiday hotspot for many in the not to distant future.

[Kananga]

At some point it will get ugly, I just hope I'm not close by!

For sure, and Russians are not intimidated easily that's for sure. Any actual violence handed out by Thais is almost certainly going to be reciprocated.

On the up side, an escalation of this conflict is going to raise the profile of the root cause (the cartels that exist for fleecing tourists through forcing them to use tuk tuks and taxis), to diplomatic levels (if it's not already there). A lack of Russian clientele would seriously hurt Phuket's hotel occupancy that's for sure, and where would the replacement tourists come from?

Bangladesh.

Myanmar, when the wealth of its citizens is surpassing the Thais, and they can afford holidays many thais cannot and can speak more than one language ie the language of Asean, but woah woah! kind of rules Thailand out as an ideal destination in the future doesnt it, if they cannot speak english? Myammar may actually become the next Holiday hotspot for many in the not to distant future.

Well there is bugger all infrastructure so I wouldnt say the near future but 20 years from now Thailand could be worried.

[eezergood]

Viktor Bout was arrested in Pattaya - just sayin' like........

[Lancelot]

If the Pattaya Ruskies were rounded up- half of the foreign "guests" would be missing.

Hmmmm, maybe thats not all bad

[NamKangMan]

Viktor Bout was arrested in Pattaya - just sayin' like........

He was arrested in a Bangkok hotel, not Pattaya.

Edited January 29, 2013 by NamKangMan

[eezergood]

I stand corrected was his 'residence' in Pattaya?

[NamKangMan]

I stand corrected was his 'residence' in Pattaya?

My understanding is he flew into Bangkok for a meeting with some Columbian rebels to do a deal to supply them with heavy weapons. The Columbian rebels were actually undercover American DEA agents and they arrested him on an INTERPOL warrant.

I don't think he lived in Pattaya. He may have visited Pattaya, but I could be wrong.

[scar2]

I have not even driven trough Pattaya for the past 5 years, so I don't know what is going on there. Some rumors say that Pattaya is under control of Russian mafia. If this is true, then it would be good to know how did things happen.. to be able to predict what could happen in Phuket.

One maybe possible scenario for Phuket is: The first wave will bring normal business to Phuket, people who wish to invest here and make money with their businesses. When this fails due local protests some of these people will go away.

However some will not and this will result violent attacks. At this point it's time to call the big boys with their motorbikes for security. Now we have organized mafias on both sides of the fence. This might throw some shit to the fan, like steelepulse mentioned.

After an while, the rudest of the gangs will take the 'security' of Phuket to their hands.. and will collect tax for the work.

Just because Russians in Pattaya are paying bribes to have Russian staff, doesn't mean they are mafia.

In general, in Pattaya, the Thai's are happy - they get a monthly payment.

The Russian owner is happy - he makes a bit of money.

The Russian tourists are happy - they have a Russian speaking guide, menus etc and are with fellow Russians.

This BS is only happening on "Planet Phuket" - not all over Thailand.

The baht buses in Pattaya don't care if Russians jump on the back for a ride or not - but on Phuket, well, you can see the lengths the tuk-tuks go to to make sure tourists must have to use them.

We are expats and chose to live here, but, like Alex Tours, a Russian can walk into a travel agent in Russia and he can be told, "Don't go to Phuket, there is a problem with transport there. I can sell you the same holiday to Thailand in a place called Pattaya. and for a cheaper price."

The travel agent has just done what Alex Tours has done, but there is nothing the tuk-tuks can do about it. In this case, the bottom line is, less tourists to Phuket, and it's probably already happening.

very well said, I agree with all above.

[surangw]

as long as they can pay ( tea money) they will stay

[falkan]

thais been ripping tourists of since last 10 years back, i happy to see the russians here, 250bath for a massage at ruski-massage and the "local thais" charge 300thb and now they go to war over 50bath...

[eezergood]

Saw a group of agitated Russians last night in PAtong alont the 3rd road - there was a Russian store/travel agency there. Coincidence or are we seeing a cleansing?

[phuketsub]

I am sick and tired of everyone talking shit about the Russians.

I have met many of them during my 25 years here and haven't had a single bad encounter. I grew up in the US during the Cold War, when we we were basically subjected to government brainwashing aimed at trying to get us to hate them...(the new target is the Muslim world, of course.) On the other side, we had to endure intelligence-insulting bullshit like Sting's song "I hope the Russians love their children too". It's all pathetic, boring and insulting. We need to move past this. The Thai tourism industry has simply replaced "Russian" for "Korean" as the bete-noir of the day.

If Russians are breaking Thai laws, just enforce the the damned law and stop bitching about it.

[NamKangMan]

I am sick and tired of everyone talking shit about the Russians.

I have met many of them during my 25 years here and haven't had a single bad encounter. I grew up in the US during the Cold War, when we we were basically subjected to government brainwashing aimed at trying to get us to hate them...(the new target is the Muslim world, of course.) On the other side, we had to endure intelligence-insulting bullshit like Sting's song "I hope the Russians love their children too". It's all pathetic, boring and insulting. We need to move past this. The Thai tourism industry has simply replaced "Russian" for "Korean" as the bete-noir of the day.

If Russians are breaking Thai laws, just enforce the the damned law and stop bitching about it.

I've never had a problem with the Russians either.

Phuket's problem is, if they do as you say and enforce the law, then the Russians will stop coming here, and by "here" I mean Phuket, not Thailand.

It's business as usual up in Pattaya. Russian tourist everywhere, Russian tour guides everywhere, Russian concierges in hotels (I've never seen that one before) Russian travel agents, Russian chefs, Russian dive shops etc etc. Everyone is making money, some legally, some illegally, but Russian tourists, just by their presence, are pouring millions of baht into Pattaya.

Here, in Phuket, they are trying to set up businesses, like in Pattaya, and are finding things very different, even though they are in the same country. Strangely enough, the problems are coming from tuk-tuk and taxi drivers, not police and immigration.

It's alright for farang to own a beer bar here and sell alcohol, and indirectly sell sex, but how many Russians have you seen buy a beer bar here? They are better off using their ability to speak and read a very difficult language and sell some trips to islands, or show Russians around the island, or show them real estate, or sell them activities or shows etc etc.

The Russians run things differently to westerners and the Thai's are not used to it. The Thai's would rather see them buy an overpriced beer bar, like the westerners, go broke halfway through their lease, sell up and go home. The same cycle that many westerners have been through, but the Russians are different.

If they shut all of their businesses down here, the word will get back to travel agents in Russia to stop selling Phuket package holidays and only sell Pattaya package holidays and the whole Phuket Russian tourist market, and Russian businesses and staff, will just move to Pattaya.

So, it's possible that a bunch of tuk-tuks and taxis will turn away hundreds of millions of baht a year for the Phuket economy from Russian tourist, just because they were arranging their own transport on the island.

The tuk-tuks have done this before. Remember the big American warship that was due for some shore leave here a while back? The tuk-tuks blockaded the port because the American Navy had organisd their own buses to transport their personel. The ship, with thousands of sailors onboard, just sailed on and Phuket didn't see a baht out of them, all thanks to the tuk-tuks.

It's possible the Russians will "sail on by" Phuket in the future and head to Pattaya, or their Communist cousins Vietnam, and who could blame them.

The tuk-tuks are damaging the Phuket tourism industry and hurting small business here.

[CHRISTIANa9]

"The tuk-tuks are damaging the Phuket tourism industry and hurting small business here."

It's good news for me. Self cleansing. Hopefully things will go back to norm like 15 years ago but then again TiT.

[Sharp]

The Russians are going no where they know who to pay , it's just a matter of amending the amount ,the TUK TUKs also know how corrupt the police etc are and that's why they have taken it upon themselves to try to do something about it .

Any bets on the Russians getting here in bigger numbers...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[NamKangMan]

The Russians are going no where they know who to pay , it's just a matter of amending the amount ,the TUK TUKs also know how corrupt the police etc are and that's why they have taken it upon themselves to try to do something about it .

Any bets on the Russians getting here in bigger numbers...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Of course the Russian know who to pay, and they do pay. However, "tea money" has to be factored into your business plan. It is a liability - an expense - and it comes off your bottom line.

If they have to "amend the amount" as you put it, and the new "amount" means they will be passing higher running costs onto their customers, then, a holiday in Pattaya is now looking a lot cheaper than Phuket, and the business owner must also be thinking, "I can run the same business, with less tea money to pay, in Pattaya and no problems from tuk-tuk drivers."

So, the ussian business owner seriously considers moving his business. He can do so because, although there are thousands of Russian tourist coming to Thailand, the language barrier, both spoken and writen, does lend themselves to be a niche market. I notice you will only see Russians in an establishment that has a sign out the front writen in Russian.

The question also remains, if the Russians, like everyone else, are paying tea money and bribes to have Russian staff working, why are they being shut down???? They are paying for "protection." Why pay for protection if you are not being protected???? So, they know they are being ripped off.

This is another reason why I think many of them will be moving to Pattaya, they get better value for their corruption dollar. :) They pay their protection money and then it's "hands off" from officials and locals, and they are free to conduct their business, which we should not forget, employs a lot of Thai staff.

[NamKangMan]

"The tuk-tuks are damaging the Phuket tourism industry and hurting small business here."

It's good news for me. Self cleansing. Hopefully things will go back to norm like 15 years ago but then again TiT.

Don't forget the Thai business model. Profits goes down so they put prices up. The more "self cleansing" as you put it, will see higher prices for everyone here.