Guns On The Road.

[Unwisemonkey]

This must be the year of the gun. I stayed late at my office finishing up some work, and enjoying some private time. I finished up and decided to walk to the intersection of Phahonyothin and Ngam Wang Wan Road and catch a taxi home to save a few baht. I ended up walking south along Phahonyothin to get past the bus stops where a taxi would stop and pick me up. The bus stopped to pick up some passengers and there was a man about 20 years old on an enduro style motorcycle, looked like it had mud tires on it though, who was stopped in front of it. A taxi came from the other side of the bus and I hailed it. The Taxi driver eager to get a fare hurried over and in the process cut off the man on the motorcycle as he started pulling forward forcing him to stop suddenly. I've seen this a million times and usually it's just par for the course in BKK and the motorcycle just moves on. The driver of the motorcycle drove up to the Taxi driver, engaged the clutch and started revving his engine at the driver. All the while I am opening the door and asking if the driver will take me to my destination, I had not noticed the motorcycle driver mad dogging the taxi driver with such intent until I saw the driver wai'ing and saying "katort krap" over and over. He said he would take me to my destination and I put my hand up to the motorcycle driver to apologize as well for flagging the taxi figuring all would be good, just a little Thai culture due process. I got in the taxi and the motorcyclist pulled ahead of us and then the bus passed all of us. The motorcyclist continued revving his engine while in front of us.

The Taxi switched lanes and moved ahead of the motorcyclist and then we came to a stop where the motorcyclist pulled up on our right slightly ahead of us. He turned and looked at us then reached into his cargo pants pocket and pulled out a pistol, and began adjusting it on his leg. He then placed it in the backside of his pants and let us drive ahead of us and followed us for several hundred meters pulling up beside us here or there. I managed to get a picture of him but it was very blurry. All in all it was very frightening.

I am not an anti-gun person. In fact I am a gun rights supporter. I haven't owned a gun in many years now and have relatively little use for one even defensively because I avoid trouble. I don't drink, and I don't associate with low class types. However I felt quite defenseless in this situation. I know I'll get quite a bit of flack for this in light of yesterday's Norwegian gun nut shoot-out, but I don't see the sense in why foreigners are relegated to criminal class in this country for possessing firearms. I avoid trouble but sometimes trouble just finds you Why I am told to bring a knife to a gunfight because I'm a foreigner is just absurd. Do we have less of a right to defend ourselves in the same capacity as would be attackers?

I don't really care all that much if I own a gun or not, but let's be realistic about the situation then. You can't have one class of people living in a country with a secular set of government protected rights over another. It's just not adequate. So if this is the case, why not just make gun ownership illegal in Thailand across the board Thai's and Foreigners alike?

[krisb]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

[dean999]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

and knifes, stun guns, brass knuckles, sticks that can be sharpened into a stabbing weapon, bats, clear away all stones and rocks. Where will it end. Idiots will always find a way to kill.

[onionluke]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

and knifes, stun guns, brass knuckles, sticks that can be sharpened into a stabbing weapon, bats, clear away all stones and rocks. Where will it end. Idiots will always find a way to kill.

But without guns , they may not be so eager to get into the fray , as in get off their motorbikes or out of their motors or such , yahoo activities that require something , but for the life of me I forgot what they could be , from them . Bang bang your dead . Then again if some one is truly mental there may be no stopping them .

[dean999]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

and knifes, stun guns, brass knuckles, sticks that can be sharpened into a stabbing weapon, bats, clear away all stones and rocks. Where will it end. Idiots will always find a way to kill.

But , they may not be so eager to get into the fray , as in get off their motorbikes or out their motors or such yahoo activities .

Ok, you got me on that one.

[onionluke]

please excuse this major excursion

[NeverSure]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

And then only the criminals would have guns. Thailand is not a nice tight orderly society where people would turn in their guns if asked. There is a big criminal element and a cultural issue and it wouldn't happen.

I know you get lots' of "likes" for saying that, but Thailand is not Britain or Canada, and not even Australia. You would still have lots of armed thugs, but the good guys would be defenseless. It is what it is. Thailand has a huge underground criminal culture that brings violence with it.

[krisb]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

and knifes, stun guns, brass knuckles, sticks that can be sharpened into a stabbing weapon, bats, clear away all stones and rocks. Where will it end. Idiots will always find a way to kill.

True, but it would mean in the op's situation a stone throwing or stick wielding motorcyclist wouldnt have felt so threatening perhaps.

[krisb]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

And then only the criminals would have guns. Thailand is not a nice tight orderly society where people would turn in their guns if asked. There is a big criminal element and a cultural issue and it wouldn't happen.

I know you get lots' of "likes" for saying that, but Thailand is not Britain or Canada, and not even Australia. You would still have lots of armed thugs, but the good guys would be defenseless. It is what it is. Thailand has a huge underground criminal culture that brings violence with it.

Its helped a lot in Australia. Not so easy to go out and get a gun anymore and seek a quick vengance. True, criminals still get them, but if your caught, then your in big trouble. Id dare say shootings here have dropped considerably since we brought in anti gun laws. Im a good guy and just because I dont have a gun, I dont feel vulnerable, nor would most Aussies. Edited January 30, 2013 by krisb

[krisb]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

and knifes, stun guns, brass knuckles, sticks that can be sharpened into a stabbing weapon, bats, clear away all stones and rocks. Where will it end. Idiots will always find a way to kill.

Yes, ban long bladed knifes, brass knuckles banned for sure, same stun guns. Australia has, it works.

[NeverSure]

Its helped a lot in Australia. Not so easy to go out and get a gun anymore and seek a quick vengance. True, criminals still get them, but if your caught, then your in big trouble. Id dare say shootings here have dropped considerably since we brought in anti gun laws. Im a good guy and just because I dont have a gun, I dont feel vulnerable, nor would most Aussies.

Krisb, Thailand isn't Austrialia. There is no real rule of law in Thailand. Such topics are discussed regularly here. Yes, if you get caught with a gun in Australia or Canada or Britain you know what will happen. The same is true in the US if you violate a gun law. That just isn't true of Thais. It has a lot more to do with who you are, who you know, and tea money.

You would never get guns out of the hands of criminals in Thailand. Many of the guns they have now are "illegal." All you could do is get them out of the hands of law abiding people.

That makes no sense to me and never will. Disarm the law abiding, and let the criminals continue to run amok as they already do.

[impulse]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

and knifes, stun guns, brass knuckles, sticks that can be sharpened into a stabbing weapon, bats, clear away all stones and rocks. Where will it end. Idiots will always find a way to kill.

True, but it would mean in the op's situation a stone throwing or stick wielding motorcyclist wouldnt have felt so threatening perhaps.

That's assuming he gave up his banned gun- a pretty poor assumption. He's already shown a willingness to flout the laws by pulling the gun out and brandishing it in public. You think he won't violate the law that says he must turn it in?

Guns are like nukes. Once they're there, there's no getting rid of them, regardless of wishful thinking....

[ajarnpot]

Do I understand the poster. YOu think that if you had a gun on you things would have been ok? what if the biker had decided to shoot the car you would have shot them first? or if you brandished your gun the biker would ride away?

if the biker has a gun and is not worried about threatening people with it, another firearm will likely escalate the problem as everyone starts trying to measure the length of their..............

ahhh logic

[NeverSure]

Do I understand the poster. YOu think that if you had a gun on you things would have been ok? what if the biker had decided to shoot the car you would have shot them first? or if you brandished your gun the biker would ride away?

if the biker has a gun and is not worried about threatening people with it, another firearm will likely escalate the problem as everyone starts trying to measure the length of their..............

ahhh logic

In this case I would have done nothing. In the OP, it sounds like the guy just made it known he had a gun. Where I come from that is called brandishing, and it will get you thrown in jail. You will lose your right to own a firearm for life. I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun, but I can pull it only if I reasonably believe I, or another person, is truly threatened with death or serious bodily injury. In the case of the OP, the guy with the gun was just being an asshol_e and needs to have his gun rights taken.

I would have done nothing because the guy wasn't acting as if he was going to shoot. But if he had taken hold of the gun in such a way as to control it for shooting, and then began to point it at me, it would have been another story. I'm not going to sit there and get shot.

While he was brandishing his gun, I would have been allowed to pull mine out, and if I did I would have kept it low and out of his sight hoping nothing escalated. But I would have been ready to defend myself.

As we have read in other accounts in Thailand recently, sometimes some <deleted> just starts shooting and sometimes even innocent bystanders get hit. Call me weird, but I'd rather do the shooting than to get shot or to see an innocent shot. Weird of me, huh.

[chrisinth]

The chances that the firearm the motor cycilist was showing was illegal anyway are pretty high. There are quite strict laws in Thailand for "licence to carry" permits anyway, however the majority of off-duty police and service personnel assume it is their given right to carry when in fact it isn't.

" I don't really care all that much if I own a gun or not, but let's be realistic about the situation then............."

My problem with your suggestion earlier in the OP as to why visitors/tourists/ex-pats should not be allowed to carry firearms is:

In the scenario you have described, where you have seen a threat involving a firearm, whether real or imagined, how many people would panic and take the initiative and fire the first shot to negate the threat?

You may be level-headed, but I can assure you that many other people are not. That is the reason, in almost every country in the world, there are restrictions on firearms, especially "licence to carry" for visitors.

BTW, if you are an ex-pat living here, it is possible to get a gun licence. Licence to carry is another story.

It is pretty scary when these things happen, but for the majority of cases, it is posturing and intimidation; if he was going to use the weapon he would have done so. Lets not get too paranoid out there, eh!......................

Edited January 31, 2013 by chrisinth

[Unwisemonkey]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

and knifes, stun guns, brass knuckles, sticks that can be sharpened into a stabbing weapon, bats, clear away all stones and rocks. Where will it end. Idiots will always find a way to kill.

True, but it would mean in the op's situation a stone throwing or stick wielding motorcyclist wouldnt have felt so threatening perhaps.

I'd just like a level playing field.

[Unwisemonkey]

Do I understand the poster. YOu think that if you had a gun on you things would have been ok? what if the biker had decided to shoot the car you would have shot them first? or if you brandished your gun the biker would ride away?

if the biker has a gun and is not worried about threatening people with it, another firearm will likely escalate the problem as everyone starts trying to measure the length of their..............

ahhh logic

Assume much?

[Unwisemonkey]

The chances that the firearm the motor cycilist was showing was illegal anyway are pretty high. There are quite strict laws in Thailand for "licence to carry" permits anyway, however the majority of off-duty police and service personnel assume it is their given right to carry when in fact it isn't.

" I don't really care all that much if I own a gun or not, but let's be realistic about the situation then............."

My problem with your suggestion earlier in the OP as to why visitors/tourists/ex-pats should not be allowed to carry firearms is:

In the scenario you have described, where you have seen a threat involving a firearm, whether real or imagined, how many people would panic and take the initiative and fire the first shot to negate the threat?

You may be level-headed, but I can assure you that many other people are not. That is the reason, in almost every country in the world, there are restrictions on firearms, especially "licence to carry" for visitors.

BTW, if you are an ex-pat living here, it is possible to get a gun licence. Licence to carry is another story.

It is pretty scary when these things happen, but for the majority of cases, it is posturing and intimidation; if he was going to use the weapon he would have done so. Lets not get too paranoid out there, eh!......................

I appreciate the level headed response but as Neversure stated I would have preferred to have had a weapon and been able to act. I think you're right also though gun restrictions are meant to keep the guns in the hands of level headed people, and although this may have been posturing, I prefer to err on the side of caution against posturing. Where I'm from that's called pumping one's self up so as to engage in aggressive actions. I've survived an unprovoked violent attack personally and have the scars to prove it. I don't take posturing lightly.

As for this particular experience the man who was only maybe 20 years old did not even have a license plate on his motorcycle, and he followed us for some length of time. I'll assume he's willing to use it, I'm not particularly keen on intellectualizing weather or not this a threat when I could only have a second or two to react, and in this case my only options would have been to duck and cover and hope for the best. I think suggesting paranoia however is distasteful. It is not paranoid when you see something with right in front of your face. He had a pistol, he was trying to intimidate the taxi driver, and myself, and posed a very clear and present danger. His behavior was intentional and harassing after that. There are simply too many stories of Thai's killing Thai's with guns, Thai's killing foreigners, and vice versa not to take seriously the threat of someone brandishing a weapon. Nearly every day you have some poor guy or some poor girl who's had their brains blown out for one petty reason or another. Life is cheap in this country and this world for that matter and I won't devalue mine, nor an innocent Taxi driver whose offense was being a bad driver.

[DiamondKing]

If that ever happened to me and someone pulled a gun it would be pedal to the metal knock him off his bike and then get the hell outta there I aitn waiting for him to fire

You and the taxi driver were trying to get away and that guy would not let you and just showing you the gun would be enough for me and if he was in front of me I would ram him

Crazy maybe but at least he would not be able to shoot me

[LennyW]

All this speculation about guns could have been avoided if the taxi driver learned to drive properly and not cut people off in the first place!

[DiamondKing]

All this speculation about guns could have been avoided if the taxi driver learned to drive properly and not cut people off in the first place!

So you condone threatening bad drivers with guns

[rattler]

The gun's not the problem its the mentality behind it thats the problem, and they ingrain that from birth here.

[LennyW]

All this speculation about guns could have been avoided if the taxi driver learned to drive properly and not cut people off in the first place!

So you condone threatening bad drivers with guns

How do you figure that?

Properly driven taxi not cutting off biker = no pissed off biker=no gun produced=no driver threatened, there you go - simple.

[scorecard]

All this speculation about guns could have been avoided if the taxi driver learned to drive properly and not cut people off in the first place!

So you condone threatening bad drivers with guns

He didn't say that, nothing like it.

[NeverSure]

All this speculation about guns could have been avoided if the taxi driver learned to drive properly and not cut people off in the first place!

So you condone threatening bad drivers with guns

How do you figure that?

Properly driven taxi not cutting off biker = no pissed off biker=no gun produced=no driver threatened, there you go - simple.

I don't even know where to start on this. I blame only the guy with the gun because cutting someone off in traffic is NOT a sane reason to pull a gun. The guy with the gun was nuts and no driver should expect that his driving actions would produce a gun. Where I come from this behavior is also called road rage. Sometimes people use the car as a weapon and sometimes a gun. It's still deadly behavior and will still get you locked up, your gun rights taken for life, and your driver's license taken for a goodly time. You'll also get a huge fine.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Jesus, people. The danger comes from crazy people. Those crazy people get their hands on guns one way or another in a culture like Thailand. People are dying all the time from these crazy people.

[ajarnpot]

Do I understand the poster. YOu think that if you had a gun on you things would have been ok? what if the biker had decided to shoot the car you would have shot them first? or if you brandished your gun the biker would ride away?

if the biker has a gun and is not worried about threatening people with it, another firearm will likely escalate the problem as everyone starts trying to measure the length of their..............

ahhh logic

In this case I would have done nothing. In the OP, it sounds like the guy just made it known he had a gun. Where I come from that is called brandishing, and it will get you thrown in jail. You will lose your right to own a firearm for life. I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun, but I can pull it only if I reasonably believe I, or another person, is truly threatened with death or serious bodily injury. In the case of the OP, the guy with the gun was just being an asshol_e and needs to have his gun rights taken.

I would have done nothing because the guy wasn't acting as if he was going to shoot. But if he had taken hold of the gun in such a way as to control it for shooting, and then began to point it at me, it would have been another story. I'm not going to sit there and get shot.

While he was brandishing his gun, I would have been allowed to pull mine out, and if I did I would have kept it low and out of his sight hoping nothing escalated. But I would have been ready to defend myself.

As we have read in other accounts in Thailand recently, sometimes some <deleted> just starts shooting and sometimes even innocent bystanders get hit. Call me weird, but I'd rather do the shooting than to get shot or to see an innocent shot. Weird of me, huh.

This is nonsense though, ok you would have been allowed to pull yours out and then you decide to shoot thinking you are in too much danger, the police come along , see a rich or not rich foreigner has killed a local, taxi driver is not saying a word, maybe drives off leaving foreigner to face music or alternative what if as the locals turn up things begin to look ugly, some of them don't look too friendly

[NeverSure]

Do I understand the poster. YOu think that if you had a gun on you things would have been ok? what if the biker had decided to shoot the car you would have shot them first? or if you brandished your gun the biker would ride away?

if the biker has a gun and is not worried about threatening people with it, another firearm will likely escalate the problem as everyone starts trying to measure the length of their..............

ahhh logic

In this case I would have done nothing. In the OP, it sounds like the guy just made it known he had a gun. Where I come from that is called brandishing, and it will get you thrown in jail. You will lose your right to own a firearm for life. I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun, but I can pull it only if I reasonably believe I, or another person, is truly threatened with death or serious bodily injury. In the case of the OP, the guy with the gun was just being an asshol_e and needs to have his gun rights taken.

I would have done nothing because the guy wasn't acting as if he was going to shoot. But if he had taken hold of the gun in such a way as to control it for shooting, and then began to point it at me, it would have been another story. I'm not going to sit there and get shot.

While he was brandishing his gun, I would have been allowed to pull mine out, and if I did I would have kept it low and out of his sight hoping nothing escalated. But I would have been ready to defend myself.

As we have read in other accounts in Thailand recently, sometimes some <deleted> just starts shooting and sometimes even innocent bystanders get hit. Call me weird, but I'd rather do the shooting than to get shot or to see an innocent shot. Weird of me, huh.

This is nonsense though, ok you would have been allowed to pull yours out and then you decide to shoot thinking you are in too much danger, the police come along , see a rich or not rich foreigner has killed a local, taxi driver is not saying a word, maybe drives off leaving foreigner to face music or alternative what if as the locals turn up things begin to look ugly, some of them don't look too friendly

Wow, you can read a lot that isn't written. I started out saying "In this case I would have done nothing." Then you say that's nonsense.

Then I said "...but I can pull it only if I reasonably believe I, or another person, is truly threatened with death or serious bodily injury. In the case of the OP, the guy with the gun was just being an asshol_e and needs to have his gun rights taken."

I also said "I would have done nothing because the guy wasn't acting as if he was going to shoot. But if he had taken hold of the gun in such a way as to control it for shooting, and then began to point it at me, it would have been another story. I'm not going to sit there and get shot."

I'm not going to just sit still and let some guy shoot me. I may have some consequences later, but at least I'll be alive to deal with it.

I guess you'd rather get shot and killed to avoid any hassles. If someone is pointing a gun at you, you already have a very serious hassle I'd say.

[martynsnowmans]

a thai man and 2 girls tried to stop me when on my motorbike last year , i knew they were up to no good i could see it in there faces and they were drunk

there was no help from other thais near to me so i had no option i pulled the gun i carrying and let all three have the full mag ,

lucky for them it was SONGKRAM and the gun was full of cold water ...... snowman ( ex-sas and seal team 6 )

[krisb]

Its helped a lot in Australia. Not so easy to go out and get a gun anymore and seek a quick vengance. True, criminals still get them, but if your caught, then your in big trouble. Id dare say shootings here have dropped considerably since we brought in anti gun laws. Im a good guy and just because I dont have a gun, I dont feel vulnerable, nor would most Aussies.

Krisb, Thailand isn't Austrialia. There is no real rule of law in Thailand. Such topics are discussed regularly here. Yes, if you get caught with a gun in Australia or Canada or Britain you know what will happen. The same is true in the US if you violate a gun law. That just isn't true of Thais. It has a lot more to do with who you are, who you know, and tea money.

You would never get guns out of the hands of criminals in Thailand. Many of the guns they have now are "illegal." All you could do is get them out of the hands of law abiding people.

That makes no sense to me and never will. Disarm the law abiding, and let the criminals continue to run amok as they already do.

Yeh but Thailands not Australia either. Get caught with a gram of cocaine of a few exctasy tablets and you wont do 30 years. Your post is what makes no sense. To accept the culture of owning a gun in Thailand and thats how Thailand is, thats giving up to easily.

I say bring in severe sentences for carrying guns in public or owning a gun unregistered. Only the bad guys do this and they need a stint in Bangkok Hilton to wake them up.

[kevvy]

Better idea is ban all guns altogether.

and knifes, stun guns, brass knuckles, sticks that can be sharpened into a stabbing weapon, bats, clear away all stones and rocks. Where will it end. Idiots will always find a way to kill.

Yes, ban long bladed knifes, brass knuckles banned for sure, same stun guns. Australia has, it works.

you cannot own a BB gun in Australia Even a slingshot the police will take off you