Need Bangkok Bank Help On Pension Benificiery Accounts

[BuckarooBanzai]

Currently receive pension retirement benefits to my bank account in US and then transfer to Thailand for tax reasons.

Trying to set up Bangkok Bank New York account for auto transfer to Thailand to wife and child upon my death for beneficiary death benefits.

Bank is saying I need to authorize my wife and child as beneficiaries to Bangkok Bank in New York but since the money would be sent to their new accounts in New York by pension companies at the time of my death this makes absolutely no sense to me.

It is up to my pension companies to change accounts to transfer amounts and beneficiaries upon my death and not BKB. Am I missing something here? I am not intending on changing current deposit accounts at this time for reasons per-mentioned - tax.

I really need some up front and personal help on this one as the local rural bankers seem to be missing something or I am to far gone to think clearly.

Help would be most appreciated.

I am sick in the hospital and will post in general so please move where appropriate.

[craigt3365]

Hey Buckeroo! So sorry to hear about your situation. Hope you recovery quickly.

I also transfer on a regular basis this way. Maybe you could setup a joint account that would survive here in Thailand upon your departure? I'm no expert, but think this would be better over in the banking forum. So....let's move this topic over there and see what the experts have to say. OK?

Topic Moved.

[Pib]

I don't think Bangkok Bank New York accepts retail customer accounts...that is, provides retail customer accounts like savings or checking accounts. They are more of a commercial bank. Sure they have an ACH routing number which can be used for funds transfer pass-through to account numbers in Thailand Bangkok Bank branches, but I don't think the New York operation opens individual retail accounts. You should probably call Bangkok Bank headquarters in Bangkok (on Silom Rd) for more info. Good luck and Cheers.

[Langsuan Man]

Sorry but I don't understand your "tax" angle. All worldwide income is subject to US tax for US citizens, irregardless of how it flows to you.

You also should clarify exactly what kind of pensions / retirement benefits you are talking about. There are different US rules on government pensions, US Social Security, etc.and how and to whom they can be transferred to upon your death ( survivorship ). You should really be discussing these types of questions with whatever entity is paying you these benefits, not the bank that is just a conduit for these funds

[Sophon]

Sorry but I don't understand your "tax" angle. All worldwide income is subject to US tax for US citizens, irregardless of how it flows to you.

He probably means Thai tax. If the pension is transferred to Thailand in the same year as it is earned, then it technically becomes taxable in Thailand.

Sophon

[Langsuan Man]

Sorry but I don't understand your "tax" angle. All worldwide income is subject to US tax for US citizens, irregardless of how it flows to you.

He probably means Thai tax. If the pension is transferred to Thailand in the same year as it is earned, then it technically becomes taxable in Thailand.

Sophon

Literally thousands of ex-pats transfer funds from pensions in the same year to Thailand, in fact Immigration law requires it, yet I have never heard of anyone having to pay Thai tax on a foreign pension

Please explain

[ianguygil]

Sent you a PM

[Sophon]

Sorry but I don't understand your "tax" angle. All worldwide income is subject to US tax for US citizens, irregardless of how it flows to you.

He probably means Thai tax. If the pension is transferred to Thailand in the same year as it is earned, then it technically becomes taxable in Thailand.

Sophon

Literally thousands of ex-pats transfer funds from pensions in the same year to Thailand, in fact Immigration law requires it, yet I have never heard of anyone having to pay Thai tax on a foreign pension

Please explain

I already explained, nothing much to add. If you are living in Thailand and have income/pension abroad, that income is taxable in Thailand if the income is transferred to Thailand in the same year it is earned. To avoid this many people let the income/pension accumulate into their foreign account, and lives of savings from earlier years.

The reason I said "technically" in my post is because currently the Thai tax authorities are not actively trying to tax such income, maybe because such income in many cases would be covered by a double taxation treaty, so if the income is already taxed in the country it is earned Thailand would probably end up getting little or no tax.

Sophon

Edited February 1, 2013 by Sophon

[meatboy]

Sorry but I don't understand your "tax" angle. All worldwide income is subject to US tax for US citizens, irregardless of how it flows to you.

He probably means Thai tax. If the pension is transferred to Thailand in the same year as it is earned, then it technically becomes taxable in Thailand.

Sophon

Literally thousands of ex-pats transfer funds from pensions in the same year to Thailand, in fact Immigration law requires it, yet I have never heard of anyone having to pay Thai tax on a foreign pension

Please explain

i get my pensions sent once a yr.from uk.these are subject to uk.tax if any,never had any tax taken other than on savings which i claim back.regarding your wf.inheriting from your pensions you should be making a will and stipulating who gets what that way the lawyer or excutors will see your wf.gets anything she is entitled to,and she shouldnt pay tax as she has a personel allowance of 150,000bht a year.and if you live in isaan i recomend korat-legal lawyer.

[lopburi3]

As said many transfer direct and there is no active hunt for tax by Thai authorities but the indirect route is often better for anyone needing source of funds in home country.

If you pass and the Thai are not citizens they should not have to pay US tax so direct transfer is likely the best option - either by wire or check. If you have a joint US bank account expect that could continue to be used and transfers made as now. You need to talk with your pension plan as to what is required after death as to tax withholding and payment. Any Thailand based Bangkok Bank account can be used for receipt of ACH transfers from US (not just the government mandated no ATM access accounts required in case of death) but that will be a pension provider call (and any bank account here could receive by wire transfer). She may have to file a Form W-8BEN to allow payment without US tax taken out (if not US citizen) but it will then be subject to Thai Tax here.

[BuckarooBanzai]

The whole tax issue with me was that this was/is all combined with SS benefits which was just easier to deal with through home bank. things are much different now. Many good offers of help. Thank you all.

[Mrjlh]

It sounded to me as if BB NY only needs a beneficiary release so they will know that the recipients are truly the ones to receive the funds. Could this be the case?

[Lopburi99]

I am considering having my SSA monthly benefits direct deposited into my existing Bangkok Bank account here rather than to my Ally Bank account in the U.S. as presently being done (there are personal reasons why I need to consider doing this). Where would the currency exchange occur? Would the Soc Sec Admin deposit my funds as baht or USD? Confused, can't get my ageing mind around this.

I need to access funds via ATM either here in Thailand or in the U.S. and I love my Ally card because they charge only 1% foreign conversion charge for cash withdrawal from ATMs here. I am hoping I don't somehow lose this saving to the customary 3% fee somehow by using a Bangkok Bank account and ATM card. FYI, by withdrawing from a AEON ATM I pay no ATM fees since neither AEON nor Ally charge a withdrawal fee. I think I've squeezed the last drop out of that last nickel.

Thanks.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Lopburi99

[Pib]

It would occur at the local Bangkok Bank branch. Since you would be using the Bangkok Bank "NY" routing number a fee of around $5 would be sliced off as it flowed through the NY branch to your local branch. See this link for the specific fee based on the amount transferred. Link. And then the local branch would apply a 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max) fee as mentioned in above link. When the dust settles you probably end up paying approx $12 in total transfer fees for a typical SS pension.

You'll probably have to set up a Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account as Bangkok Bank may catch/identify the transfer as a U.S. govt pension transfer assuming it coming directly from the SSA....there is coding in the transfer. Also mentioned a little in above Link. A Direct Deposit account has some drawbacks like there can be no ATM/Debit card tied to it and you must show up in person to withdraw money. However, if you have another standard Bangkok Bank savings account which does come with a ATM/debit card periodically you can just transfer in-person money from the Direct Deposit Account to your regular savings account. Or, to avoid Bangkok Bank possibly making you open a Direct Deposit account, just have the SS pension first deposited in your stateside bank and then setup automatic monthly ACH transfer from your stateside acct to your Bangkok Bank regular saving acct. Hopefully your stateside bank provides free ACH transfers...it not you might want to change banks as plenty of banks do provide free ACH transfers (i.e., no sending fee charged by your home country bank).

Schwab Bank, State Farm Bank, and others provide no foreign transaction fee debit cards along with ATM reimbursement if required.. I you want to squeese more from that nickel switch to a bank that provides a no foreign transaction fee debit card.

[BuckarooBanzai]

As a closing comment on my need for help.

The Bangkok Bank Organization and it's willingness to help during these difficult times for me was outstanding. Never be afraid to ask for help.

Thanks again one and all but especially to the wonderful people at the Bangkok Bank.

[Lopburi99]

It would occur at the local Bangkok Bank branch. Since you would be using the Bangkok Bank "NY" routing number a fee of around $5 would be sliced off as it flowed through the NY branch to your local branch. See this link for the specific fee based on the amount transferred. Link. And then the local branch would apply a 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max) fee as mentioned in above link. When the dust settles you probably end up paying approx $12 in total transfer fees for a typical SS pension.

You'll probably have to set up a Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account as Bangkok Bank may catch/identify the transfer as a U.S. govt pension transfer assuming it coming directly from the SSA....there is coding in the transfer. Also mentioned a little in above Link. A Direct Deposit account has some drawbacks like there can be no ATM/Debit card tied to it and you must show up in person to withdraw money. However, if you have another standard Bangkok Bank savings account which does come with a ATM/debit card periodically you can just transfer in-person money from the Direct Deposit Account to your regular savings account. Or, to avoid Bangkok Bank possibly making you open a Direct Deposit account, just have the SS pension first deposited in your stateside bank and then setup automatic monthly ACH transfer from your stateside acct to your Bangkok Bank regular saving acct. Hopefully your stateside bank provides free ACH transfers...it not you might want to change banks as plenty of banks do provide free ACH transfers (i.e., no sending fee charged by your home country bank).

Schwab Bank, State Farm Bank, and others provide no foreign transaction fee debit cards along with ATM reimbursement if required.. I you want to squeese more from that nickel switch to a bank that provides a no foreign transaction fee debit card.

Good information, thanks Pib. The killer seems to be the in-person branch transfer of money from the Direct deposit account to my standard Bangkok Bank as I am not always in Thailand when I would need to be.

I wasn't aware of any no foreign transaction fee debit cards. I will look into those you mentioned.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Lopburi99

[Pib]

I wasn't aware of any no foreign transaction fee debit cards. I will look into those you mentioned.

Yeap, they are out there...I've got two U.S. debit cards ($1000/approx 60K baht withdrawal per day on each allowed) and two U.S. credit cards that do not charge any foreign transaction fees...and I use them in Thailand all the time.. The one primary debit card and credit card I use (the other two cards are really for backup/occasional use) covers the great bulk of my day-to-day living costs....approaching two years since I last did an ACH funds transfer which I reserve for those times I need some BIG bucks within a few days. I keep my Bangkok Bank account charged-up to pay local/monthly bills via Bangkok Bank internet banking and some use of my Bangkok Bank debit card by just withdrawing money from an AEON ATM in the local Lotus mall (could use any ATM, but I just want to avoid my U.S. bank from having to reimburse me the 150 baht fee...don't want to help kill the golden goose) and then take about 20 steps to the Bangkok Bank outlet in the mall also and deposit the money in a Cash Deposit Machine (CDM). Whole process takes about 5-10 minutes usually since sometimes one person might already be using the CDM and I have to wait a little bit...I did it once in approx 3-4 minutes...two withdrawals using both debit cards to get 60,000 baht & then quickly walk around around the corner and deposit in the CDM....done....finished...zero fees...and I got the Visa exchange rate which is plus or minus a few stang of the TT Buying Rate you get in funds transfers....actually the Visa rate is usually a few stang better. I can pull up to $2K / approx 60K baht per day, have the money immediately in-hand, and all "fee-free." Yeap, no foreign transaction fee debit cards are the way to go....no use helping to make your home country bank richer...better to keep that money in your pocket.

[ianguygil]

As a closing comment on my need for help.

The Bangkok Bank Organization and it's willingness to help during these difficult times for me was outstanding. Never be afraid to ask for help.

Thanks again one and all but especially to the wonderful people at the Bangkok Bank.

Dear Buckaroo

It is our pleasure to be of service. Thank you for your kind words of thanks, you have a lot on your plate but you still took the time to do that. You are a gentleman.

I had stopped involvement in this forum (I do this unofficially and in my spare time) but your case was exceptional. Any others who face daunting problems are welcome to contact me via PM, but I will not be posting extensively on this forum.

Thanks again for taking the time to say something nice. Our very best wishes to you and your family.

Ian

[Lopburi99]

It would occur at the local Bangkok Bank branch. Since you would be using the Bangkok Bank "NY" routing number a fee of around $5 would be sliced off as it flowed through the NY branch to your local branch. See this link for the specific fee based on the amount transferred. Link. And then the local branch would apply a 0.25% (200 baht min, 500 baht max) fee as mentioned in above link. When the dust settles you probably end up paying approx $12 in total transfer fees for a typical SS pension.

You'll probably have to set up a Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account as Bangkok Bank may catch/identify the transfer as a U.S. govt pension transfer assuming it coming directly from the SSA....there is coding in the transfer. Also mentioned a little in above Link. A Direct Deposit account has some drawbacks like there can be no ATM/Debit card tied to it and you must show up in person to withdraw money. However, if you have another standard Bangkok Bank savings account which does come with a ATM/debit card periodically you can just transfer in-person money from the Direct Deposit Account to your regular savings account. Or, to avoid Bangkok Bank possibly making you open a Direct Deposit account, just have the SS pension first deposited in your stateside bank and then setup automatic monthly ACH transfer from your stateside acct to your Bangkok Bank regular saving acct. Hopefully your stateside bank provides free ACH transfers...it not you might want to change banks as plenty of banks do provide free ACH transfers (i.e., no sending fee charged by your home country bank).

Schwab Bank, State Farm Bank, and others provide no foreign transaction fee debit cards along with ATM reimbursement if required.. I you want to squeese more from that nickel switch to a bank that provides a no foreign transaction fee debit card.

This would be the perfect solution, however I am getting vibes from the SSA Manila office that since I have lived here for 18 continuous months my direct deposit must take place in a Bangkok Bank account provided for that purpose. Has anybody been forced to change their SSA direct deposits from a stateside bank account to a new BB account here?

Edited February 8, 2013 by Lopburi99

[Pib]

I can't see why the SSA would care what bank in the world you send your monthly pension to as long as no laws are broke. Maybe the SSA Manila office was just really trying to say if you are going to send the SS pension (or any U.S. govt pension) to the Bangkok Bank you will need to open a Direct Deposit account with them which helps prevent fraud when the pensioner dies. And Bangkok Bank will require such as soon as they determine it's a U.S. govt pension which can be spotted through the transfer coding in the monthly transfer. With a Direct Deposit account only you in-person (a still living body) can withdraw money...so if you are not able to to show up at the bank to transfer/withdraw money you just might be dead which means the SS pension must stop...and the pension money would still be available in the account for the SSA to pull back. Unfortunately and apparently there have been too many cases where the pensioner's SS pension is going to a joint account, the pensioner dies, but the spouse either knowingly or unknowingly don't notify the SSA of the pensioners death and the pension continues to flow...and the spouse continues to illegally spend it.

Yea, yea, I know that if living in the States your SS pension can flow to a joint account...but in the States when a person dies the death is reported via numerous methods which eventually gets to the SSA although family of the pensioner are suppose to immediately report the death. I did this shortly after my Mom's funeral just to ensure the SSA got the info ASAP to prevent them from sending a payment(s) after her death and then pulling it back. But when a pensioner is living overseas...maybe in the jungles of Thailand...news of their death probably don't flow back to U.S. govt channels as fast especially if a spouse don't report it because they want that monthly SS pension to continue to flow into the joint account. The Direct Deposit account is really just to help prevent fraud and it's Bangkok Bank's attempt to comply with U.S. law in order to continue to service people with such forms of money flow....which is a good thing.

Personally, when I reach SS age I'm going to have the money sent to one of my Stateside bank accounts...and then when I need to flow some over to Thailand I will just slide the no foreign transaction fee debit card into the ATM or do an ACH transfer.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Pib

[Lopburi99]

Well, I hope you and I can do exactly that. It is appearing we may not have that choice (assuming you also have lived here for at least the past 6 months). I am going to start a new topic for greater exposure. I want to determine, yes or no, if the SSA can/will insist we have a Bangkok Bank direct deposit here, forbidding our direct deposit to a Stateside bank account.