Opposition Dumps Thaksin's Election Plans

[Jai Dee]

Construction of the Suvarnabhumi airport will not be affected by the House Dissolution.

Managing Director of the Airports of Thailand (AOT) Bancha Pattanaporn (บัญชา ปัตนาภรณ์) insisted that House Dissolution will not affect the construction of the Suvarnabhumi airport.

Mr. Bancha said that the construction of the airport is 99% completed, adding that the remaining work is decoration and system testing. He insisted that the premier’s decision to dissolve parliament will not affect the construction, adding that the Suvarnabhumi airport will be opened within June or mid-July.

As for the use of the Don Muang airport after the new airport is open, Mr. Bancha said that the meeting of officials on the development of the Suvarnabhumi airport, chaired by the Prime Minister tomorrow will clarify the issue.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 Febuary 2006

[lukamar]

That is neither here nor there, as farmer Somchai from Baan-Nork in Issan will struggle to read the constitutional struggles in Thai, let along English. If he can read Thai to a stunning grade 4 level, then it is going to be via government controlled press anyway. And even if he developed a bit of independent thought in his years in the rice paddy, his village chief, who has accepted and dolled out or sorts of TRT goodies to his flock over the past 5 years will tell Somchai how to vote anyway when he gives him his TRT bag of rice with 500 baht taped to it.

All I can say to your rant is you really have a low opinion of the Thai populace, especially the undereducated and the poor. I find that very sad.

I know incredibly intelligent well educated people and some school dropouts. Funny thing is, most often the intelligent thought comes from the uneducated and the adherent from the educated who

seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves.

[Al Trego]

The first notion you need to disabuse yourselves of, is the fallacy that my country, Thailand, is a democracy. It is not.

No populace that is as uneducated about the value of enfranchisement as the Thai rural poor can be regarded as a democratic constituency. They are many years from understanding the value and meaning of democracy, or the obligations that come with their ability to vote.

Thai Ruk Thai is the largest, richest organisation ever to hit the Thai political scene. Most of those in high places there are many-times disgraced dinosaurs of Thai politics. The only successes they have enjoyed have been lining their own pockets over many incarnations.

Let us look at some of the many vaunted “successes” of TRT’s governance:

The 30 Bt. medical scheme. Every hospital involved is crying foul and desperate to find the funds to continue in operation.

The 1 M-Bt. Village fund. A blatant act of bribing and purchasing votes from the rural population, possible only through legal loopholes. Most individual beneficiaries of these funds are now deeper in debt than they ever were before. They have to repay their loans at the end of each year. To do so, they need to borrow, at exorbitant rates, from local leeches, repay the loan and then hope they can re-borrow at the start of the new year, leaving the 20-50% “leech fee” to be repaid over time.

The multiple mega-projects are al, without exception, ill conceived and riddled with corruption. Dinosaurs lining their personal nests at the cost of you, me and all the other citizens of our potentially great Kingdom.

The last "election" was won, not through a "democratic process" but through corruption, fraud and practices that would declare any Western, (apart from, perhaps, the USA) poll invalid and have the perpetuators sent away at his Majesty’s pleasure for appreciable prison sentences.

Throughout most of the rural areas, voters, in deep hock to the state through the 1M-Bt. village fund, were told their loans would be called in if TRT failed to win their local seat. Local officials, Poo-Yai Baan and others, were told they would lose their jobs. Those who could not be threatened into giving their “Free” vote to TRT were bribed in other ways. The result, a landslide.

This next election, if it went ahead normally, would be no different. No opposition party could possibly ever win on this, possibly the least flat playing field on the planet.

[Jai Dee]

Teachers required to help organize elections.

Secretary-general of the Basic Education Commission Pornnipha Limpaphayom (พรนิภา ลิมปพยอม) said that state teachers must cooperate in organizing general elections on April 2, otherwise, they will face disciplinary charges.

Mrs. Pornnipha's comment follows the announcement made by a representative of teachers' organization that said they would not help organize elections if the prime minister does not resign. She said that the Education Minister raised this issue in the meeting of five main agencies yesterday and asked that an understanding be made with teachers.

She said that election laws state clearly that the Election Commission is authorized to have state agencies perform election-related work. She added that refusal to do so without appropriate reasons will be considered a disciplinary offense and the EC can report to supervisor to investigate the matters. However, Mrs. Pornnipha said that currently only one teacher has made such comments, adding that the representative may not be accepted by the teachers at large as no other teachers have come out to protest.

As for threats by the teacher representative that the teachers will close schools, Mrs. Pornnipha said that most schools are closing as their semester is drawing to an end. However, some teachers are still required to work during summer. Mrs. Pornnipha said that taking time off without justifications will considered an offense as well. However, she said that teachers may take turn in taking time off, adding that there should not be problems.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 Febuary 2006

[dan10400]

To clarify what a boycott will do. If under 20% of the electorate, in a single constituency, vote then that result is void. It needs 500 seats out of 500 to vote in a government. So if say 30/50 seats are not filled the whole parliament will be invalid and unable to govern. Nobody quite knows what happens after that!!!!!

But that is the point of the boycott!

Exactly what I was going to Post.

The whole point of the Boycott by the Opposition parties is that under the Constitution some Constituencies will end up having NO elected Member of Parliament, because only those voters who back TRT will vote and in many parts of the Country TRT does not have 20% of the electorat on their side - for example in the South where the Democrats have always been stronger than any other party; some Constituencies in Bangkok may also not reach the 20% level.

Without a full 500 Seats filled the Parliament is unconstitutional and simply cannot function.

This will create a true Constitutional crisis and quite possibly lead to military intervention - if that does not happen before April 2 which is also quite possible.

Patrick

interesting points - not sure about the military intervention point.

but nice incentive to go back and read the constitution.

here is a link to the 1997 constitution in english:

http://www.kpi.ac.th/kpi/en/con_th.asp

[wilko]

I don't know is an election with just one party possible "vote for TRT or TRT", even if only he alone vote for himself he get 100 %?

My wife thinks that the king will make a gouverment without election and election is somewhen later.

I have no idea, no situations like that in Austria, no experience with that......

Sorry I cannot agree with most of you.

I think boycotting the election is a great idea. they are NOT stupid... they know if he gets re-elected that all h@ll will break loose because he will not have been democratically elected if there was no opposition

One thing you cannot call Thaksin is stupid, corrupt , but not stupid.. thats why he has called a snap election.. C'mon you have all read the papers, what goes around comes around...and he knows he is on his political ARSE! He is on his way OUT one way or another.

Boycott is about their only alternative - and if they can achieve a delay then they can gain from possible changes of allegiance by other MPs. (90 day rule) Mr T has been quite crafty here but the opposition in a rare piece of cooperation has also been a bit cute too. The problem with all of this is it is sailing very close to the wind constitutionally and both sides seem to be guilty of it...they seem to have missed the point that they should be concerned about the Kingdom and its people not their own political careers.

Edited February 28, 2006 by wilko

[thedude]

and everybody seems to forget about the king's dealings in this? we all know he has already reprimanded toxin in december and again last week when surely toxin was told to hold a election to calm things down.

i can see the king being very concerned about this, and if things are not done democraticly, i am sure as he has done before, will step in one way or another!

terminator, you are advised not to speculate on the possible thoughts or actions of the monarchy.

thanks for your cooperation.

[Jai Dee]

PM believes that current political situation is normal matter in democracy

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra believes that the current political situation is considered normal in a democratic system.

The general atmosphere at the Government House this morning was filled with political movements under the management of the acting government. However, the Cabinet meeting, which presided over by the premier, was held as usual. At about 8:10 hours today, the Prime Minister traveled to the Government House, and gave an interview with the news reporters on the current political situation. He said the situation is deemed normal under the democratic regime.

Following the Cabinet meeting, Dr. Thaksin was scheduled to preside over the other meeting to follow up on the construction of Suvarnabhumi Airport.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 Febuary 2006

[Jai Dee]

Chuvit tells Thaksin to consider exile

Maverick politician and massage-parlor tycoon Chuvit Kamolvisit has suggested that Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra pack his bags and go into exile either in Singapore or the British Virgin Islands.

The former Chart Thai MP made the comments while visiting anti-Thaksin protestors at the Democracy Monument on Rajdamnern Avenue after midnight this morning.

Known for his hard-hitting and often abrasive rhetoric, Chuvit charged that the caretaker prime minister’s latest promise to amend the Constitution could not be taken seriously since he had not honoured numerous previous pledges.

Among other things, Thaksin promised to open a joint parliamentary session for government and opposition MPs to debate the controversial Shin Corp shares sale but later abruptly dissolved Parliament and called a snap new election.

Echoing the widely held views within the Thai intellectual community, Chuvit stated that there is no way out from the current political crisis gripping the country unless Thaksin resigns.

Source: ThaiDay 28 February 2006 10:54

[thedude]

i wonder who owns Thaiday.

[Jai Dee]

Love, fashion and the Constitution

Leaders of the opposition alliance, seated from left, Chat Thai’s Banharn Silpa-archa, the Democrat’s Abhisit Vejjajiva and Mahachon’s Maj-Gen Sanan Kachornprasart announcing their decision to boycott the April 2 election at the Parliament House yesterday.

Constitutional expert Kanin Boonsuwan has spent the better part of his life writing thehefty tomes found on the shelves of law firms that interpret the legalese used in various constitutions.

“I’ve produced four reference books explaining the Constitution to the public, and every time I’ve finished, something has happened to make the book obsolete,” Kanin, who helped draft the 1997 Constitution, said in an interview yesterday. “Now I fear something will happen to this Constitution.”

Like love and fashion, Thai constitutions are fickle. The past 74 years have seen no fewer than 15 constitutions, or one nearly every five years – which actually makes the 1997 Constitution relatively durable.

Calls to amend the Constitution have resounded for years, and now opposition parties wary of being beaten at the polls have placed constitutional change at the forefront of their agenda. But, like those who want Caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to resign, those calling for constitutional reform appear to agree only that change is necessary; what those changes will be is another story.

Not surprisingly, most of those who want the Constitution changed also want Thaksin to leave the political scene. The prime minister, they say, has bought off independent bodies and millions of poor uneducated North-easterners, rendering the Constitution useless and the prospect of a change of government after the next election unlikely. Hence, the election boycott called yesterday by the three main opposition parties. They have determined that the rules based on the 1997 Constitution are not being followed, and they no longer want to play the game with a man they consider a cheat.

But this Constitution was supposed to have eradicated the possibility of fraud. With its roots in the 1992 bloody ‘Black May’ uprising, the 1997 Constitution aimed to eliminate vote-buying and corruption by empowering independent watchdogs to ensure a fair playing field.

“I never imagined this would happen when we finished the Constitution in 1997,” Kanin said. “But now I see the loopholes.”

Everything appeared to be running smoothly until 2001, when the National Counter Corruption Commission (NCCC) charged Thaksin with deliberately submitting a false assets declaration in 1997, when he was deputy prime minister. The Constitutional Court was entrusted with judging the merits of the case.

Until then, the Constitutional Court had upheld every one of the NCCC’s findings. In Thaksin’s case, this would have seen him banned from politics for five years. But in one of history’s twists of fate, the public – tired of a corrupt Democrat government – took to the streets to ensure that the newly-elected Thaksin had the chance to govern.

On August 3, 2001, the court finally delivered a verdict that has had enormous ramifications in terms of today’s events. By an eight-to-seven vote, the court defied the NCCC and cleared Thaksin of wrongdoing.

“The people who had to decide Thaksin’s fate weighed up two issues: the popular mood of the country and the letter of the law,” Giles Ungpakorn, a political science professor at Chulalongkorn University, was quoted as saying at the time.

“And they decided by eight-to-seven that the popular mood was more important.”

A cursory look at the state of the independent bodies today reveals the verdict’s impact. The NCCC is not functioning, the State Audit Commission went 18 months without a leader and the Constitutional Court, the Senate and the Election Commission are all widely perceived as being pro-Thai Rak Thai.

It is understandable that those who want constitutional change also want Thaksin gone. Critics believe that the 2001 Constitutional Court verdict represented a watershed for Thailand’s young democracy, and the only way to right the ship is to toss the hijacker overboard and batten down the hatches.

“The Constitution is not the problem and neither is another election,” said Senator Thongbai Thongpao, who also helped write the 1997 Constitution.

“The center of the problem is the prime minister. He created all these problems in the first place, so how can he solve them?” Thongbai asked.

With an intimidating 336 articles, the Constitution certainly has no shortage of material that can be changed. Even though 100 people will undoubtedly come up with 100 different ways to mend the abused Constitution, several broad themes have emerged.

Under Article 313, only Cabinet members, senators and lawmakers can propose constitutional amendments. Though reformers are wary of making it too easy to change the Constitution, they also want to allow eligible voters to be able to propose amendments by collecting anywhere between 100,000 and 500,000 signatures.

Article 291 only requires a minister to report assets held by him or her, his or her spouse and children under the age of 20.

With Ample Rich and the Shin Corp sale at the center of the current crisis, critics want this article to be amended to require ministers to report their entire family’s holdings, regardless of their children’s age.

Similarly, Article 110, paragraph 2, says a lawmaker should not receive a state concession. Critics want this changed to restrict anyone whose company has ever received a state concession to be banned from politics – a clause that would have prevented Thaksin from running for office.

And finally, much talk surrounds the 90-day rule which effectively prevents MPs from changing parties if the prime minister decides to dissolve the House. This rule was initially put into the Constitution to promote political stability, but the current crisis has made many think that the country is no more stable than it was before.

“Even though we have the 90-day rule in the Constitution now, it doesn’t mean our political system is stable,” said Colonel Vinae Sompong, the first Thai Rak Thai lawmaker to resign from the party and call on Thaksin to resign. “In our history, stability has been threatened by one of three things: violence, communism or corruption. Now we have violence in the South and a corrupt government.”

Though many critics want the 90-day rule scrapped, they are not clear what should replace it. Some people like the big parties that exist today, others want smaller parties to rise again, and still others want the party system consigned to the history books.

Thaksin’s reluctance to embrace constitutional change is understandable, given how the current one has treated him so far. As one Thai Rak Thai member lamented this week: “The protestors want to amend the Constitution so that anybody but Thaksin can run the country.”

Reformers probably would not disagree. But while they blame the prime minister for tainting the Constitution, they also realize that even if they redraft the charter 100 times over, it will only be as strong as the leaders who enforce it and the citizens that hold those leaders accountable.

“The Constitution is only a packet of papers,” Kanin said. “It doesn’t mean anything without good people to implement it.”

Source: ThaiDay 28 February 2006 12:59

[Roger_JG]

I do not like Thaksin but he is at least democratically elected!

Democratically elected?

My partner's familly in far Issan got 100 baht per person to vote for the candidate of the opposition last time, and then 200 to vote for Thaksin....

~S

[Plus]

While Sanoh might be sitting next to Abhisit in today's paper he is far from being a Democrat party member. Boycot has little to do with giving MPs time to jump ship, IMO.

Taksin is being accused of corruption and conflict of interest. Snap elections have nothing to do with these allegations.

Constitution Court, SEC, and AMLO are some of the agencies that should be involved and clarify the matter one way or another, not the bribed and brainwashed Isan villagers or Songkla rubber farmers.

[h90]

as well many got told that thaksin paid back the money for thailands credits at 1997 by his own money. He bought the airforce 1 for thailand from his money, actually everything money comes direct from his own pocket.

As crazy this sound, but you'll not belive on how many people think that and watch TV......

If you pay for votes, desinform the people, bring only bulls*it in TV (the schools and their quality are also a topic), than you can not really speak from democratically elected......

(by the way they got cheated I heared from some which got 300 from TRT)

I do not like Thaksin but he is at least democratically elected!

Democratically elected?

My partner's familly in far Issan got 100 baht per person to vote for the candidate of the opposition last time, and then 200 to vote for Thaksin....

~S

[Heng]

For locals waiting for the right opportunity to get into politics, this could be a ripe time to pull a Schwarzenegger.

Edited February 28, 2006 by Heng

[otherstuff1957]

So, Heng, will you be an MP by May?

[Heng]

So, Heng, will you be an MP by May?

Baby steps. I do like the sound of Kamnan Heng though.

[ovenman]

So, Heng, will you be an MP by May?

Baby steps. I do like the sound of Kamnan Heng though.

500 baht gets my vote!

[buadhai]

To clarify what a boycott will do. If under 20% of the electorate, in a single constituency, vote then that result is void. It needs 500 seats out of 500 to vote in a government. So if say 30/50 seats are not filled the whole parliament will be invalid and unable to govern. Nobody quite knows what happens after that!!!!!

But that is the point of the boycott!

But, aren't all those voters who go along with the boycott blacklisted and prevented from voting in the next election?

So, when a re-election is held to replace the void one only those who voted will be able to vote in the second round?

[Siripon]

Sorry I cannot agree with most of you.

I think boycotting the election is a great idea. they are NOT stupid... they know if he gets re-elected that all h@ll will break loose because he will not have been democratically elected if there was no opposition

One thing you cannot call Thaksin is stupid, corrupt , but not stupid.. thats why he has called a snap election.. C'mon you have all read the papers, what goes around comes around...and he knows he is on his political ARSE! He is on his way OUT one way or another.

Why would he not be elected democratically? as I recall votings a duty in Thailand. If your going to show up at the polls might as well vote. The sunni minority tried a boycott in the first Iraqi election, changed their tune the next election.

Big cities are generally democratic, as well as union. trade association etc but rural areas where the majority of people live are more conservative, they are people who have to work for life on its most basic level.

The majority of posters on this board come from socialist europe, they feel more comfortable with a nanny goverment, like the cradle to grave comfort of big brother watching over them, wiping their asses and giving them comfort. Hence the proliferation of prodemo posts, and anti Taksin messages found on this board. well I'm never voting in a Thai election and very ###### few of you will. I constantly read negativity against the PM but very few comments about whats occurred thats been good. I go with my Thai wife on this one, she points out all the good Taksins done vs what occurred before he took office. She has no reason to be happy with the man, didn't like him before he took office, and as she worked for a company that he owned and lost her job when he closed it, she certainly didn't vote for the man. But she recognizes what many things that've improved. 30 baht health visits, wipe out of world bank debt in such a short period of time, it surprised all, building projects all around the country etc..

I think alot people dislike the intrusion into their enjoyments, bars closing earlier, crackdown on drugs, an increase in what it takes to stay in Thailand monetarily etc None of which will affect me, I'm happily married, drink rarely , bars aren't my cup of tea anymore, and if I want live music I'll buy an electronic piano as I can't play my guitars anymore.

But I guess my point is most here wish to import their values from home and place them in Thailand. Same as Muslims wish to do in Europe(world) and many are starting to resent that. I say let the Thais decide, many on board have a tendency toward elitism, as if their smarter, better than the Thais. I'm not smarter or better than anyone, I recognize that fact, my values aren't necessarily thai values, although many coincide, but I'll not try to force them on anyone

There was an ex-minister of industry talking about this at tonight's rally. He claims he was not surprised when the IMF loans were quickly paid off after Thaksin's arrival as PM in order to keep the IMF's nose out of Thailand's books, enabling a free for all with even more corruption in those building projects you mentioned and more. Makes sense?

7:20 pm: Thaksin gives interview to reporters after a meeting with small parties that the Thai Rak Thai will go on "carrying out our duty". He says although the Chat Thai, Democrat and Mahachon would boycott the election, there are 10 other small parties, which will participate in the election.

I think he has them check-mate with that one... if they boycott they'll lose all their seats

Wise words indeed

The poker game has just begun. There's a whole lot more bluffing coming from both parties. Even though your opponent has stacked the deck doesn't mean he'll end up with all of the chips.

Regarding the payback of the IMF loan, the rates of interest payable to The World Bank and Asia Development Bank were \are higher than those of the IMF so Thaksin cost the country a lot of money by paying the IMF first, but of course he could claim to be a true nationalist, freeing Thailand from the oppression of the pitiless foreigners, just like when he sold Shin Corps to Singapore's 'state enterprise', Temasek!

[wilko]

Taksin is being accused of corruption and conflict of interest. Snap elections have nothing to do with these allegations.

you can't be serious??????????????????

[Jai Dee]

Democrat members demand the party to send candidates for the general election

Democrat Party members from various areas of Bangkok have demanded the party to send its candidate to run the general election as alternatives for general public.

Over fifty members of Democrat party from districts of Phayathai (พญาไท), Ratchathevee (ราชเทวี) and nearby areas have gathered at the party head office to demand the party for sending the candidates to run election on the 2nd of April 2006.

They gave the reason for such demand that it would be an alternative for general public. They insisted to return the member card to the party if their demands are neglected.

However, until now there has been no confirmation from the party core figures over the demands of the party’s members.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 Febuary 2006

[Jai Dee]

Mahachon Party insists not to field its candidates for the election

Mahachon Party leader Sanan Kajornprasart (สนั่น ขจรประศาสน์) insisted that no candidates from his party will run in the next general election. He also said his party will not join any political activity with the Thai Rak Thai Party if Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra still holds the premier position.

Maj. Gen. Sanan has announced the party’s resolution and reasons not to field the candidates in the upcoming election.

He gave the first reason that corruption could still occur if TRT leader Thaksin is still the Prime Minister. Secondly, the Mahachon Party leader affirmed that the party will send the candidates only if Dr. Thaksin resigns from his post, as an act to show transparency. The last reason he gave is Mahachon Party supports the movement of people, academics and students who demand the premier to resign for the new political reform.

He stated that the three opposition parties will keep a close eye on the general election on the 2nd of April for transparency reasons. He said they will arrange a stage to inform the facts to the general public.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 28 Febuary 2006

[Plus]

Taksin is being accused of corruption and conflict of interest. Snap elections have nothing to do with these allegations.

you can't be serious??????????????????

I'm serious. Do you think TRT will build its campaign around these issues? No way. It will be "eradicating poverty", "30 Baht scheme", "Otop", Ua arthorn and all sorts of government handouts.

It's as if doing all that exempts Taksin from scrutiny in what really matters to his opponents - massive corruption, hiding assets and secretly attending to his business.

Democrats might address that, of course, but it will be called whining and mud-slinging and negativism and what not.

As I said earlier -Taksin should be investigated, prosecuted, and, if necessary, punished through proper channels, not through election campaigning on irrelevant issues.

But if you mean that these allegations have caused him to dissolve the house and call the elections, than it's obvious, isn't it? It's just the elections will be about anything else but his shady dealings.

Edited February 28, 2006 by Plus

[Rinrada]

The first notion you need to disabuse yourselves of, is the fallacy that my country, Thailand, is a democracy. It is not.

of course its NOT.

Dont think that anyone living outside "fantasy island" would for one moment consider LOS a Democracy

Fledgling maybe and give it another 100 years or so the seed might start buding but not yet.

Most outsiders really just sit and watch the shenanigans and are amazed at the "playouts "between the likes of organisations under the headings of ...TRT versus the THT (Thai hate Taskin party)...can you imagine a political party called England loves the English party (ELE) dear dear ..switch over the channel and... doze off.

Mr T could have been more imaginative and held the "boy-cot-Day"on April the 1st ..that would maybe have made the outcome a real supprise......MPR-TIT (here we go again GITB.).. get in the beer..

[thedude]

I'm serious. Do you think TRT will build its campaign around these issues? No way. It will be "eradicating poverty", "30 Baht scheme", "Otop", Ua arthorn and all sorts of government handouts.

It's as if doing all that exempts Taksin from scrutiny in what really matters to his opponents - massive corruption, hiding assets and secretly attending to his business.

interesting point. alms giving, or in this case giving back to the people is a very thai way of undoing previous wrongs. this is pefectly in line with karmic principles. perhaps they will then find it in their hearts to forgive him and give him another chance.

[CL0R0X]

Sorry I cannot agree with most of you.

I think boycotting the election is a great idea. they are NOT stupid... they know if he gets re-elected that all h@ll will break loose because he will not have been democratically elected if there was no opposition

One thing you cannot call Thaksin is stupid, corrupt , but not stupid.. thats why he has called a snap election.. C'mon you have all read the papers, what goes around comes around...and he knows he is on his political ARSE! He is on his way OUT one way or another.

Why would he not be elected democratically? as I recall votings a duty in Thailand. If your going to show up at the polls might as well vote. The sunni minority tried a boycott in the first Iraqi election, changed their tune the next election.

Big cities are generally democratic, as well as union. trade association etc but rural areas where the majority of people live are more conservative, they are people who have to work for life on its most basic level.

The majority of posters on this board come from socialist europe, they feel more comfortable with a nanny goverment, like the cradle to grave comfort of big brother watching over them, wiping their asses and giving them comfort. Hence the proliferation of prodemo posts, and anti Taksin messages found on this board. well I'm never voting in a Thai election and very ###### few of you will. I constantly read negativity against the PM but very few comments about whats occurred thats been good. I go with my Thai wife on this one, she points out all the good Taksins done vs what occurred before he took office. She has no reason to be happy with the man, didn't like him before he took office, and as she worked for a company that he owned and lost her job when he closed it, she certainly didn't vote for the man. But she recognizes what many things that've improved. 30 baht health visits, wipe out of world bank debt in such a short period of time, it surprised all, building projects all around the country etc..

I think alot people dislike the intrusion into their enjoyments, bars closing earlier, crackdown on drugs, an increase in what it takes to stay in Thailand monetarily etc None of which will affect me, I'm happily married, drink rarely , bars aren't my cup of tea anymore, and if I want live music I'll buy an electronic piano as I can't play my guitars anymore.

But I guess my point is most here wish to import their values from home and place them in Thailand. Same as Muslims wish to do in Europe(world) and many are starting to resent that. I say let the Thais decide, many on board have a tendency toward elitism, as if their smarter, better than the Thais. I'm not smarter or better than anyone, I recognize that fact, my values aren't necessarily thai values, although many coincide, but I'll not try to force them on anyone

There was an ex-minister of industry talking about this at tonight's rally. He claims he was not surprised when the IMF loans were quickly paid off after Thaksin's arrival as PM in order to keep the IMF's nose out of Thailand's books, enabling a free for all with even more corruption in those building projects you mentioned and more. Makes sense?

7:20 pm: Thaksin gives interview to reporters after a meeting with small parties that the Thai Rak Thai will go on "carrying out our duty". He says although the Chat Thai, Democrat and Mahachon would boycott the election, there are 10 other small parties, which will participate in the election.

I think he has them check-mate with that one... if they boycott they'll lose all their seats

Wise words indeed

The poker game has just begun. There's a whole lot more bluffing coming from both parties. Even though your opponent has stacked the deck doesn't mean he'll end up with all of the chips.

Regarding the payback of the IMF loan, the rates of interest payable to The World Bank and Asia Development Bank were \are higher than those of the IMF so Thaksin cost the country a lot of money by paying the IMF first, but of course he could claim to be a true nationalist, freeing Thailand from the oppression of the pitiless foreigners, just like when he sold Shin Corps to Singapore's 'state enterprise', Temasek!

Chuan leadership was the one who pay almost all the country debt, Thaksin only pay what is left over , and it weren't much left over.

One man help the country out of debt and got blame for being too slow on economy,

while the other suck-up on his success, pay back chump change, claiming they did good.

Corruption in your face have never been seen before, and this is the first PM that did it, absolute power absolute corrupt.

for any of you think Thanksin is good, answer my one question, why is the CTX guy still an MP in another position, shouldn't he be in jail, that was the most IN YOUR FACE CORRUPTION I EVER SEEN.

[samran]

That is neither here nor there, as farmer Somchai from Baan-Nork in Issan will struggle to read the constitutional struggles in Thai, let along English. If he can read Thai to a stunning grade 4 level, then it is going to be via government controlled press anyway. And even if he developed a bit of independent thought in his years in the rice paddy, his village chief, who has accepted and dolled out or sorts of TRT goodies to his flock over the past 5 years will tell Somchai how to vote anyway when he gives him his TRT bag of rice with 500 baht taped to it.

All I can say to your rant is you really have a low opinion of the Thai populace, especially the undereducated and the poor. I find that very sad.

I know incredibly intelligent well educated people and some school dropouts. Funny thing is, most often the intelligent thought comes from the uneducated and the adherent from the educated who

seem to have lost the ability to think for themselves.

Well bully for you that you know some smart people. So do I. You missed my ulitmate point though. The patronage system here in Thailand is well established but is invisble to most Farangs. I have seen senior government officals educated at American unvivesities with PHD's at meetings acting like 10 year old school children who know their place in the presence of someone older and more senior. They do what they are told, without question.

To win elections here, you get to the village chief or someone who everyone in the village trusts and listens to. Once that is sorted, everything else falls into place.

[1Lucky]

As somone who welcomed the protests against various aspects of recent governmental behaviour I have been somewhat shocked by the reaction to the snap elections. The boycott concept really just smacks of people who are interested in grabbing power, who know they cannot do it be the democratic method set out in the consitution and therefore declare they won't play ball by standing in the elections and demand constitutional reform on the basis that they are acting for the people in a manner that they (the minority) demand. Thailand may be far from the perfect democracy at present (indeed I don't believe one has ever actually existed) but it does seem to have been moving in the right direction. To me these type of actions take it dangerously close to going very much in the opposite direction. Much as I have disliked some of Taksin's actions of late I am really dismayed by these recent developments - no wonder he is confident of winning reelection if this is the calibre of the people he is standing against.

I don't accept those posters who have suggested that Taksin hasn't put out any policies (eg poster 14) - read the newspapers. You may or may not agree with the policies but TRT have been setting out policy stances for the new election. I've seen less in terms of policy from the opposition parties though other than down with Taksin and reform the constitution in an undemocractic way.

Nor am I impressed by arguments that it is unfair to call such an election at such short notice. Firstly, the parties should have known it was a possibility and have been ready. Secondly, if they are any good they should have set out their policies, etc alread, election or not - there should be little need for massive campaigning. Thirdly if its in compliance with electoral laws and the constitution TRT are entitled to do this in the same way that the opposition parties would have been entitled to do had they been in power. The argument that its unfair because TRT MPs don't have time to switch parties in time seems a bit limp. If these guys were so dissatisfied with TRT what on earth were they still doing in the party anyway - why hadn't they moved already?

Whilst one feels safe expressing these views today one worries that the case may not remain so in future if recent events signal the shape of things to come.

[samran]

As somone who welcomed the protests against various aspects of recent governmental behaviour I have been somewhat shocked by the reaction to the snap elections. The boycott concept really just smacks of people who are interested in grabbing power, who know they cannot do it be the democratic method set out in the consitution and therefore declare they won't play ball by standing in the elections and demand constitutional reform on the basis that they are acting for the people in a manner that they (the minority) demand. Thailand may be far from the perfect democracy at present (indeed I don't believe one has ever actually existed) but it does seem to have been moving in the right direction. To me these type of actions take it dangerously close to going very much in the opposite direction. Much as I have disliked some of Taksin's actions of late I am really dismayed by these recent developments - no wonder he is confident of winning reelection if this is the calibre of the people he is standing against.

I don't accept those posters who have suggested that Taksin hasn't put out any policies (eg poster 14) - read the newspapers. You may or may not agree with the policies but TRT have been setting out policy stances for the new election. I've seen less in terms of policy from the opposition parties though other than down with Taksin and reform the constitution in an undemocractic way.

Nor am I impressed by arguments that it is unfair to call such an election at such short notice. Firstly, the parties should have known it was a possibility and have been ready. Secondly, if they are any good they should have set out their policies, etc alread, election or not - there should be little need for massive campaigning. Thirdly if its in compliance with electoral laws and the constitution TRT are entitled to do this in the same way that the opposition parties would have been entitled to do had they been in power. The argument that its unfair because TRT MPs don't have time to switch parties in time seems a bit limp. If these guys were so dissatisfied with TRT what on earth were they still doing in the party anyway - why hadn't they moved already?

Whilst one feels safe expressing these views today one worries that the case may not remain so in future if recent events signal the shape of things to come.

That ignores the fact however that Thaksin has so undermined the democratic processes and associated checks and balances that for the opposition to continue to play along with them would infact legitimise everything that TRT have done. There is no independent:

- judiciary

- civil service

- regulators (telecoms's etc)

- Thai media - the ones who truely count

Anyone else who tries to speak out is gagged and bankrupted - Lee Quan Yu style