Thai Wine

[utalkin2me]

Amazing how many worthless comments there are on ThaiVisa...

Anyhow, a great Thai winery is Hua Hin Hills. Their wine is a bit pricy. Starts at 500 baht, I think. If you need a good Thai wine that'd be my recommendation.

And if you're ever in Hua Hin is recommend a tasting at their winery. It's not free, but costs 400 baht and pairs several wines with appetizers.

Lol. Of course the wine tasting costs here.

Anyway, just chalk this up to another worthless comment. I quite agree with you. Your recommendations sound great though.

Edited February 3, 2013 by utalkin2me

[bonobo]

Anything Australian will be good. Always is.

As European it is very hard to admit that you are right....Every, without exception, wine from Australia I tried was very good.

Maybe the grapes get better when they hang upside down in Australia?

but on the other hand Australian beer is just average....way better than anything the label as beer in Thailand but still not even close to German quality.

I have read a few books on "modern" wine, and all seem to point to the school of wine at the University of California, Davis, where instead of going with traditions going back centuries, decided to look at wine with a scientific methodology. Part of their findings were to adopt the cleanliness and other-such practices used throughout the food industry.

At the time, the French wines were considered the world's best, and as such, most French winemakers refused to switch from the same methods that had been used for centuries. However, winemakers from up and coming wine-producing nations embraced the findings and basically started from scratch using modern methods that ensured steady, good quality in the production of wine. Australia was at the forefront of this movement, followed by Chile and a good portion of the US wine industry. When Australian wines, in particular, started winning more wine competitions, people noticed. Now, good-quality yet reasonably-priced wines are readily available. Even the French are starting to embrace the modern methods of wine production.

[tim armstrong]

I'm not in the wine business, but have family who are. There seems to be a downsizing in many countries as the sheer growth of small 'boutique' wineries in places like Oz produced an oversupply a few years ago, so typically, the big players have bought many of them out.

One of the good things about France, is the way you can go between very small villages and still get really good cheap wine. You can't do that in many countries anymore. So I hope for the sake of the consumer that efforts to grow wine in Thailand, China or other parts of Asia work and keep that tradition going.

[StefanBBK]

You will not impress any wine drinker with any of the Thai wines. If you want to take it home as a couriosity, choose the one with the most unique label. Never ever open the bottle.

I went araound some vineyards in saraburi and it was a great day out. The only drinkable wine we found somewhere was a bottle of very young beaujolais type, which was palletable, well chilled....

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[Morden]

I've yet to taste a Thai wine that is any more than passable. Our local plonk is made from grapes grown on volcanic soil. As soon as I knew that I was reminded of Tenerife wine which is from similar soil and tastes like it is.

I'd rather pay a tad more for an imported brand that I knew.

[bonobo]

I'm not in the wine business, but have family who are. There seems to be a downsizing in many countries as the sheer growth of small 'boutique' wineries in places like Oz produced an oversupply a few years ago, so typically, the big players have bought many of them out.

One of the good things about France, is the way you can go between very small villages and still get really good cheap wine. You can't do that in many countries anymore. So I hope for the sake of the consumer that efforts to grow wine in Thailand, China or other parts of Asia work and keep that tradition going.

I have travelled extensively in France, and unlike you, I was surprised at how bad the cheap wines were. Much of it was undrinkable.

What i have seen is a gentrification of wine, especially at the lower ends. I can find quite drinkable wine at the $6-12 range from Australia, Chile, Argentina, the US, Bulgaria, and South Africa. One of my "safe" choices in the US doesn't even own any vineyards--they buy all their grapes. I know many oenophiles who decry this "industrialization" of winemaking, but I like being able to get drinkable wine at a reasonable price. I will agree that at the higher end of the price range, there are some truly great wines with character, but to be honest, how often do you want to spend $300-500 for a bottle of Montrachet (double that here in Thailand)?

[h90]

Anything Australian will be good. Always is.

As European it is very hard to admit that you are right....Every, without exception, wine from Australia I tried was very good.

Maybe the grapes get better when they hang upside down in Australia?

but on the other hand Australian beer is just average....way better than anything the label as beer in Thailand but still not even close to German quality.

I have read a few books on "modern" wine, and all seem to point to the school of wine at the University of California, Davis, where instead of going with traditions going back centuries, decided to look at wine with a scientific methodology. Part of their findings were to adopt the cleanliness and other-such practices used throughout the food industry.

At the time, the French wines were considered the world's best, and as such, most French winemakers refused to switch from the same methods that had been used for centuries. However, winemakers from up and coming wine-producing nations embraced the findings and basically started from scratch using modern methods that ensured steady, good quality in the production of wine. Australia was at the forefront of this movement, followed by Chile and a good portion of the US wine industry. When Australian wines, in particular, started winning more wine competitions, people noticed. Now, good-quality yet reasonably-priced wines are readily available. Even the French are starting to embrace the modern methods of wine production.

yes, right, when I had my course in wine making in 1998 in Austria our teacher complained a lot on how "conservative" (to say it nice) the small wine maker are. Experience is good, but having fouling grapes and land put in a not so clean barrel will never result in a good wine. Cleanness, having a lab and using scientific methods is the solution. Of course size helps.

From my experience in the supermarket you can take any US or Australian wine and it will be good.

You can take any cheap Thai or French wine and you have a 90% chance that it is so bad that it can't be drink at all.

Chile/South Africa/Italy you find wine in the 250-450 Baht range which do very well for every day. Of course they aren't 1000$ quality but good enough as table wine.

(I just recall the last red wine from France, I recalled when we were 16 we mixed red wine with coke and I thought I give it a try, and it was so bad that even mixed 50/50 with coke it wasn't possible to drink it)

[bonobo]

Anything Australian will be good. Always is.

As European it is very hard to admit that you are right....Every, without exception, wine from Australia I tried was very good.

Maybe the grapes get better when they hang upside down in Australia?

but on the other hand Australian beer is just average....way better than anything the label as beer in Thailand but still not even close to German quality.

I have read a few books on "modern" wine, and all seem to point to the school of wine at the University of California, Davis, where instead of going with traditions going back centuries, decided to look at wine with a scientific methodology. Part of their findings were to adopt the cleanliness and other-such practices used throughout the food industry.

At the time, the French wines were considered the world's best, and as such, most French winemakers refused to switch from the same methods that had been used for centuries. However, winemakers from up and coming wine-producing nations embraced the findings and basically started from scratch using modern methods that ensured steady, good quality in the production of wine. Australia was at the forefront of this movement, followed by Chile and a good portion of the US wine industry. When Australian wines, in particular, started winning more wine competitions, people noticed. Now, good-quality yet reasonably-priced wines are readily available. Even the French are starting to embrace the modern methods of wine production.

yes, right, when I had my course in wine making in 1998 in Austria our teacher complained a lot on how "conservative" (to say it nice) the small wine maker are. Experience is good, but having fouling grapes and land put in a not so clean barrel will never result in a good wine. Cleanness, having a lab and using scientific methods is the solution. Of course size helps.

From my experience in the supermarket you can take any US or Australian wine and it will be good.

You can take any cheap Thai or French wine and you have a 90% chance that it is so bad that it can't be drink at all.

Chile/South Africa/Italy you find wine in the 250-450 Baht range which do very well for every day. Of course they aren't 1000$ quality but good enough as table wine.

(I just recall the last red wine from France, I recalled when we were 16 we mixed red wine with coke and I thought I give it a try, and it was so bad that even mixed 50/50 with coke it wasn't possible to drink it)

Well, you are more of an expert than I am, but what you posted falls perfectly into line what I have been told and read.

[h90]

Well, you are more of an expert than I am, but what you posted falls perfectly into line what I have been told and read.

No I am no expert....I just learned a bit at university from the technology point of view and forgot already 99% of it. But as there was always some wine offered at the end of the class I never missed 1 hour

[bonobo]

Well, you are more of an expert than I am, but what you posted falls perfectly into line what I have been told and read.

No I am no expert....I just learned a bit at university from the technology point of view and forgot already 99% of it. But as there was always some wine offered at the end of the class I never missed 1 hour

I guess that is one way to ensure class attendance!

[h90]

Well, you are more of an expert than I am, but what you posted falls perfectly into line what I have been told and read.

No I am no expert....I just learned a bit at university from the technology point of view and forgot already 99% of it. But as there was always some wine offered at the end of the class I never missed 1 hour

I guess that is one way to ensure class attendance!

only downside was that sometimes it was obvious that the teacher had some classes before us

Great was the exam....I was way too early at his place (which was a 30 km away from the University), he asked me if I am nervous.....I told no....he went outside came back with a glass wine against being nervous.

We were 4 people on the exam. One girl failed, a week later I met her and she told me he offered her a glass wine for not being so sad, which ended in 1 or 2 bottles together.....

Luckily it was before being so political correct....these days they would crucify him....

[jackr]

Anything Australian will be good. Always is.

Except wine, beer, tattoo parlour sharpshooters or anything else for that matter

Don't sweat it, they get force-fed that in school, much like the yankee-doodles with their biased take on modern history. There are some decent Aussie wines though, just a shame about the beer and fish & chips.

[h90]

Anything Australian will be good. Always is.

Except wine, beer, tattoo parlour sharpshooters or anything else for that matter

Don't sweat it, they get force-fed that in school, much like the yankee-doodles with their biased take on modern history. There are some decent Aussie wines though, just a shame about the beer and fish & chips.

Well in average Aussie wine is a great deal. The beer is not so great but doesn't need to hide in compare with American one. On food I think no English speaking country has much to offer....

[homeownership]

Chateau neuf du pape??

It's my favourite although I am not a drinker.

Not available as a Thai Wine any more than Cuban Cigars.

Its a French Wine exclusive to a region of France.

[homeownership]

Amazing how many worthless comments there are on ThaiVisa...

Anyhow, a great Thai winery is Hua Hin Hills. Their wine is a bit pricy. Starts at 500 baht, I think. If you need a good Thai wine that'd be my recommendation.

And if you're ever in Hua Hin is recommend a tasting at their winery. It's not free, but costs 400 baht and pairs several wines with appetizers.

I have personally been to this estate and as a matter of record paid a lot of money to go on a wine tour and a ride on the elephants arounds the estate. (a great day out by the way).

The wine would be described as akin to Greek Desert Wine. Very light bodied, fruity tasting.

While it is possible to grow vineyard in Thailand, their are lots of contributing factors that make Thai Wine, inferior to wines costing a few pounds/dollars elsewhere. The soil, climate and skill of the growers at the moment in my own opinion cannot match Chiliean, South African or Austrailian Wines and lack the sophisticated earthy tastes of French and Italian Wines.

Thai wines are on a par with Egyptian and Greek wines.

[Sandman77]

When I look on eBay Germany price for 1 bottle thai wine is not more then in Thailand itself !

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[h90]

When I look on eBay Germany price for 1 bottle thai wine is not more then in Thailand itself !

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strange I would have thought it is less, because of the huge saving in tax.

[bonobo]

Anything Australian will be good. Always is.

Except wine, beer, tattoo parlour sharpshooters or anything else for that matter

Don't sweat it, they get force-fed that in school, much like the yankee-doodles with their biased take on modern history. There are some decent Aussie wines though, just a shame about the beer and fish & chips.

Well in average Aussie wine is a great deal. The beer is not so great but doesn't need to hide in compare with American one. On food I think no English speaking country has much to offer....

British food has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 15 years, in my humble opinion. Australian food, especially that from Tasmania, is cutting edge and very good. Food from the US is varied and unique, and just about every palate can be pleased. Canadian food is not as varied as US, but the seafood from the Maritimes is unmatched, and BC has some fantastic directions in food. I don't know as much about New Zealand food, but I remember fantastic lamb and boysenberries.

My point is that snide remarks putting down food from English-speaking countries is like having blinders on. There is great food in all of them, from Michelin 3-star to every-day lunch places. The same blinders can be said to exist about Thai wine. Sure, Thailand is not noted for wine, and sure, I have had some pretty bad stuff, too. But I have also had some very drinkable wines. Give Thailand more time, and you will see more and more drinkable vintages.

[h90]

British food has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 15 years, in my humble opinion. Australian food, especially that from Tasmania, is cutting edge and very good. Food from the US is varied and unique, and just about every palate can be pleased. Canadian food is not as varied as US, but the seafood from the Maritimes is unmatched, and BC has some fantastic directions in food. I don't know as much about New Zealand food, but I remember fantastic lamb and boysenberries.

My point is that snide remarks putting down food from English-speaking countries is like having blinders on. There is great food in all of them, from Michelin 3-star to every-day lunch places. The same blinders can be said to exist about Thai wine. Sure, Thailand is not noted for wine, and sure, I have had some pretty bad stuff, too. But I have also had some very drinkable wines. Give Thailand more time, and you will see more and more drinkable vintages.

OK, I didn't express myself correct....I meant food that English speaking countries developed themself. Of course there is excellent Indian food in UK, I ate amazing Chinese food in USA. But I don't know any food developed in USA or Australia, that is well known. I admit I don't know much about the Australian one, and they really didn't had much time yet. On my two trips to USA I didn't see any food they developed. UK has a couple of interesting things, but they aren't easily accepted by other countries. (I recall explaining my wife what black pudding is, and that she should not expect a chocolate dessert )

But the British beers and chocolates are world class!

[Morden]

British food has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 15 years, in my humble opinion. Australian food, especially that from Tasmania, is cutting edge and very good. Food from the US is varied and unique, and just about every palate can be pleased. Canadian food is not as varied as US, but the seafood from the Maritimes is unmatched, and BC has some fantastic directions in food. I don't know as much about New Zealand food, but I remember fantastic lamb and boysenberries.

My point is that snide remarks putting down food from English-speaking countries is like having blinders on. There is great food in all of them, from Michelin 3-star to every-day lunch places. The same blinders can be said to exist about Thai wine. Sure, Thailand is not noted for wine, and sure, I have had some pretty bad stuff, too. But I have also had some very drinkable wines. Give Thailand more time, and you will see more and more drinkable vintages.

OK, I didn't express myself correct....I meant food that English speaking countries developed themself. Of course there is excellent Indian food in UK, I ate amazing Chinese food in USA. But I don't know any food developed in USA or Australia, that is well known. I admit I don't know much about the Australian one, and they really didn't had much time yet. On my two trips to USA I didn't see any food they developed. UK has a couple of interesting things, but they aren't easily accepted by other countries. (I recall explaining my wife what black pudding is, and that she should not expect a chocolate dessert )

But the British beers and chocolates are world class!

Britain has always had some very good dishes, many of them regional. Some required quality meat, hence there was no need to add flavour or hide poor quality with spiced sauces. After WWII, Britain was poor and food rationing lasted into the '50s. That was during the time that the US got fat on Britain's war loan repayments. Few could afford to use restaurants. Hence, the quality of British food declined. Now, traditional and foreign dishes make eating out as good an experience as it is elsewhere.

[Spaniel]

Thanks for all the wine info. I think I'll forget about getting wine for gifts.

[Morakot]

tc

I think you'll find that Chateauneuf-du-Pape is made in France.

Correct, anyway, it ain't got a patch on Chateau De Loei.

Maybe not as good as Chateau De Nakhon la Nowhere.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Morakot

[xylophone]

Thanks for all the wine info. I think I'll forget about getting wine for gifts.

I think that is probably a wise decision.

Some good comments on wines and a couple I would like to enlarge upon...........the fact that many French wines here taste average/poor is because a lot of the very low-end French wines are sent over here and even with the tax, they can still come out at around 400 to 500 baht. They would only be considered average village swigging wines back in their home country, and of course with shipping, heat and some age, they fare badly once they are on the shelves.

The top chateaux of Bordeaux and many other top French winemakers use the most up-to-date, computer-controlled equipment in order to produce outstanding wines, and these are still regarded as some of the best in the world. I remember looking at the control room in Chateau Pichon Lalande and it looked more like the inside of a power station control panel than anything else!! At the other end of the scale, I have visited winemakers in the Languedoc who still use the old concrete vats to make their wine and are still capable of producing some really outstanding wines, many a cross between the old world and the new world styles.

Value for money, you really cannot go past Australia (with Chile coming a close second) which produces a whole range of wines from everyday drinkers to the absolutely excellent. Many of the reds are fruit driven, biggish wines with fairly high alcohol content which can stand a few years in bottle and are probably more suited to the rigours of exporting to this country.

One of Australia's most famous, Grange, was the result of Max Schubert's visit to Europe (France in particular) to see the winemakers techniques and copy them, when he got back to Australia, to produce his first Grange which was ridiculed, not only by the Penfolds board, but by others in the industry. We all know the rest.

As a recommendation, and to taste a French wine which bridges the gap between the old and new worlds, visit the Wine Connection and look out for "Rare Vineyards" Cabernet/Syrah from the Languedoc region of France, which produces the majority of "country wines" with some very good wines thrown into the mix.

[crazygreg44]

I always suspected that imported French and Italian wines lost their taste and originality inside containers, parked off and baking in the sun at the Laem Chabang port. But that's over 14 years ago, and by the meantime the shipping of wines must have improved, as I rarely find a bad bottle among those imported from Europe.

and yes, xylophone stated it, the french wines they sell here are of the lower ranks in their own country. Called "Table wines" they are to become piss along with a good lunch, not meant to entertain you! Due to the high tax in Thailand, you rarely get to see a higher class french wine on the shelves.

Lately I have been positively surprised by the outstanding taste of some Australian wines. Many different grape varieties, made into fresh, sparkly, fruity wines. Wine drinkers worldwide have turned their attention from the slightly sour-ish and dry varieties to more juicy and fruit-resembling wines. The tastes have changed a lot. Thailand hopped onto the train many years ago, some regions produce a fairly good wine, but most others - in my personal opinion - taste like the grapes had at some points been left to rot awhile, or as if rotten grapes have entered the pressed juice.

Monsoon Valley and Loei make a good gift if you intend to stick with a Thai wine. Personally, I would add one or two bottles of another origin to the stack - so your friend has some choice and might be tempted to compare. It can be fun, though.

Edited February 24, 2013 by crazygreg44

[Morakot]

Château LOS BOLLOS

Coming soon, to your favourite Thai store.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Morakot

[nisakiman]

Thai wines are on a par with Egyptian and Greek wines.

I have to take issue with that statement.

I drink red wine on a daily basis - it's been my alcohol of choice for three decades now. I also live in Greece, and have done for ten years. There are some excellent wines produced here, from many regions but predominantly Nemea and Noussa. They tend to be a bit pricey at the top end, but they can compete with the best. Also it is possible to find very drinkable table wines. My standard evening tipple is a 2009 Agiorgitiko (a native grape variety) from Nemea, 13.5% ABV. I buy it direct from the producer in a 10 litre box for €18 a box. It is streets ahead of most French and Italian table wines I've tasted.

Price is my beef with decent Greek wines. It's crazy, but I can get Chilean and Argentinian quality wines here much cheaper than the local wines.

Endure has the right of it with his photo of Penfold's Grange. One of the great wines of the world. The younger of my two sons (both of whom are Australian) used to work for Grant Burge, a winery in the Barossa Valley, and their top end wines were truly magnificent. Yes, that's something that Australia does get right. They have a great wine industry.

I haven't been back to LOS for about 5 years, so the news that Australian wines have come down in price is good news indeed. It was my big complaint when I was there that my standard drink was so prohibitively expensive. The Thai wines I tried were expensive crap. I ended up buying 1.5 litre bottles of barely drinkable Italian table wine from Big C for about 700 baht, I think. I did a visa run to Lao last time I was there, and picked up a couple of boxes of Aussie table wine at the border. It was great! Really quite drinkable! I'd be very pleased if those boxes started appearing in the Thai supermarkets at a reasonable price!

The Thai wine industry has still got a long, long way to go before I'll be spending my hard earned on it again.