Regret, Self-imprisonment.

[thaibebop]

Do what you won't regret, freedom is your self-respect.-KMFDM

I have always tried to live my life with an understanding that whatever befalls me, befalls me, and that I needed to work from this new point. I have always tried to not look back at what could've been. It happened, it's over, move on, has always been what I have tried to do. I have been successful at this, but the regret I have cast off has always effected just me.

So, what happens when through your actions other people are hurt or placed in very difficult positions? What happens when these people's problems can be fixed through your actions, but you can do nothing? I am not asking what a person should physically do, that would be determined by the individual situation, but rather how does one cope? How do you carry this burden, or put it down, and should you?

Scripture is welcome as well as your own wisdom.

[ThaiPauly]

I have always used this phrase.

Lord grant me the serenity

To accept the things I cannot change

The couarge to change the things I can

and the WISDOM to know the difference

[sabaijai]

from a Thanissaro lecture, and although it relates to death, regret comes in as well:

When death comes, all sorts of thoughts are going to come crowding into your mind — regret about things you haven't yet been able to do, regret about things you did do, memories of people you have loved and will have to leave. I was once almost electrocuted, and although people who saw it happening said that it was only a few seconds before the current was cut off, to me it felt like five minutes. Many things went through my mind in that period, beginning with the thought that I was going to die of my own stupidity. Then I made up my mind that, if the time had come to go, I'd better do it right, so I didn't let my mind fasten on any of the feelings of regret, etc., that came flooding through the mind. I seemed to be doing OK, and then the current ceased.

If you haven't been practicing meditation, this sort of experience can be overwhelming, and the mind will latch on to whatever offers itself and then will get carried away in that direction. If, though, you have practiced meditation, becoming skillful at letting go of your thoughts, or knowing which thoughts to hang onto and which ones to let pass, you'll be able to handle the situation, refusing to fall in line with any mental states that aren't of the highest quality. If your concentration is firm, you can make this the ultimate test of the skill you have been developing. If there's pain, you can see which will disappear first: the pain or the core of your awareness. You can rest assured that no matter what, the pain will go first, for that core of awareness cannot die.

Regret is, in the end, a form of pain, emotional pain. Like other emotions, if you apply mindfulness I think you'll see that 'regret' is accompanied by certain physical symptoms. If you apply mindfulness to these physical symptoms, you'll see they are transient (anicca), insubstantial (anatta) and unsatisfactory (dukkha). Seeing this you won't want to hold onto it any longer. Like other strong emotions, it will pass if you don't nurture it. That's where the wisdom ThaiPauly referred to comes in. If wisdom can't be granted by God, then you need to develop it yourself.

A mighty fine object for meditation, regret.

On the other hand if you've done something unskilful/unwholesome (akusala)then regret may be part of the akusala vipaka - the unwholesome result - of your action.

[chownah]

Sabaijai,

I've never seen "annatta" translated as "insubstantial"...I've always seen it as "not-self". How did you come up with "insubstantial"?

Also, do you think that "regret" is always a result of unskillfullness?

Chownah

[thaibebop]

from a Thanissaro lecture, and although it relates to death, regret comes in as well:

When death comes, all sorts of thoughts are going to come crowding into your mind — regret about things you haven't yet been able to do, regret about things you did do, memories of people you have loved and will have to leave. I was once almost electrocuted, and although people who saw it happening said that it was only a few seconds before the current was cut off, to me it felt like five minutes. Many things went through my mind in that period, beginning with the thought that I was going to die of my own stupidity. Then I made up my mind that, if the time had come to go, I'd better do it right, so I didn't let my mind fasten on any of the feelings of regret, etc., that came flooding through the mind. I seemed to be doing OK, and then the current ceased.

If you haven't been practicing meditation, this sort of experience can be overwhelming, and the mind will latch on to whatever offers itself and then will get carried away in that direction. If, though, you have practiced meditation, becoming skillful at letting go of your thoughts, or knowing which thoughts to hang onto and which ones to let pass, you'll be able to handle the situation, refusing to fall in line with any mental states that aren't of the highest quality. If your concentration is firm, you can make this the ultimate test of the skill you have been developing. If there's pain, you can see which will disappear first: the pain or the core of your awareness. You can rest assured that no matter what, the pain will go first, for that core of awareness cannot die.

Regret is, in the end, a form of pain, emotional pain. Like other emotions, if you apply mindfulness I think you'll see that 'regret' is accompanied by certain physical symptoms. If you apply mindfulness to these physical symptoms, you'll see they are transient (anicca), insubstantial (anatta) and unsatisfactory (dukkha). Seeing this you won't want to hold onto it any longer. Like other strong emotions, it will pass if you don't nurture it. That's where the wisdom ThaiPauly referred to comes in. If wisdom can't be granted by God, then you need to develop it yourself.

A mighty fine object for meditation, regret.

On the other hand if you've done something unskilful/unwholesome (akusala)then regret may be part of the akusala vipaka - the unwholesome result - of your action.

Not unwholesome, but unskillful. I will discuss just one aspect of this situation. I failed at a task I should have been able to handle. Then I tried again, and failed again. The end result is a great loss of time and money. We now struggle to meet the bills and I know that this would not have been the case if I had succeeded or realized that I wouldn't succeed much earier than I did.

So , this regret is much harder to swallow. My intentions were good, but what are intentions when the outcome is still bad. A mistake that effects just me is nothing to me, but when the well being of my child is threaten because of my mistake..... well I don't the right words expext to say that the Buddhist teachings I have learned to this point do me no good, or I do them no good, one of the two. I guess I am saying this regret feels different than from what Buddhism discusses, at least what I have read.

[sabaijai]

Not unwholesome, but unskillful. I will discuss just one aspect of this situation. I failed at a task I should have been able to handle. Then I tried again, and failed again. The end result is a great loss of time and money. We now struggle to meet the bills and I know that this would not have been the case if I had succeeded or realized that I wouldn't succeed much earier than I did.

So , this regret is much harder to swallow. My intentions were good, but what are intentions when the outcome is still bad. A mistake that effects just me is nothing to me, but when the well being of my child is threaten because of my mistake..... well I don't the right words expext to say that the Buddhist teachings I have learned to this point do me no good, or I do them no good, one of the two. I guess I am saying this regret feels different than from what Buddhism discusses, at least what I have read.

That's a tough one. There comes a point where you have to cut your losses, accept that you may have screwed up, and move on, not clinging to the past. Easier said than done of course.

It might help for you to remember the intent of your actions. It sounds like you had the best of intentions, so from the standpoint of kamma, you did nothing wrong.

For me mindfulness is the cure. Find the physical base for this feeling you call 'regret'. If you can tap into the physical sensations that arise when you feel this way, you may find that there's a bundle of them that are signalling your brain to call it 'regret' and this causes a mind-body loop where the regret is nurtured rather than left to wither, which I assume would be your preference. Which comes first, the physical sensations or the thinking 'I regret'? This is the essence of Buddhist practice, learning how we generate dukkha and learning how to diffuse it.

Standard Western psychotherapy may be of help in a case like this as well. I have zero experience there but having an impartial person who's an expert on human psychology might help.

Sabaijai,

I've never seen "annatta" translated as "insubstantial"...I've always seen it as "not-self". How did you come up with "insubstantial"?

Also, do you think that "regret" is always a result of unskillfullness?

Chownah

Chownah anatta can be translated many ways including non-substantiality, non-essentiality and non-self.

Please reread my post - I said that regret may be a result of akusala kamma (unskilful/unwholesome action) linked to the object of regret. Now that I think about it further I'd say it's definitely the result of akusala kamma somewhere, as is all dukkha. In which case it might be linked to other kamma having nothing to do with the object of regret. Probably not beneficial to think of regret in these terms though. Better to bring everything back to the present and work forward from there, don't you think?

[chownah]

"......

Better to bring everything back to the present and work forward from there, don't you think?

I agree completely. My understand is that "skillfullness" means the ability to react to the fruits of kamma without creating new kamma....on the other hand, "unskillfullness" means that when one reacts to the fruit of kamma, new kamma is created.......so it is ONLY in the present that we have the opportunity to end kamma.

[sabaijai]

"......

Better to bring everything back to the present and work forward from there, don't you think?

I agree completely. My understand is that "skillfullness" means the ability to react to the fruits of kamma without creating new kamma....on the other hand, "unskillfullness" means that when one reacts to the fruit of kamma, new kamma is created.......so it is ONLY in the present that we have the opportunity to end kamma.

precisely ...

Does any of this help you, thaibebop?

[thaibebop]

Not unwholesome, but unskillful. I will discuss just one aspect of this situation. I failed at a task I should have been able to handle. Then I tried again, and failed again. The end result is a great loss of time and money. We now struggle to meet the bills and I know that this would not have been the case if I had succeeded or realized that I wouldn't succeed much earier than I did.

So , this regret is much harder to swallow. My intentions were good, but what are intentions when the outcome is still bad. A mistake that effects just me is nothing to me, but when the well being of my child is threaten because of my mistake..... well I don't the right words expext to say that the Buddhist teachings I have learned to this point do me no good, or I do them no good, one of the two. I guess I am saying this regret feels different than from what Buddhism discusses, at least what I have read.

That's a tough one. There comes a point where you have to cut your losses, accept that you may have screwed up, and move on, not clinging to the past. Easier said than done of course.

It might help for you to remember the intent of your actions. It sounds like you had the best of intentions, so from the standpoint of kamma, you did nothing wrong.

For me mindfulness is the cure. Find the physical base for this feeling you call 'regret'. If you can tap into the physical sensations that arise when you feel this way, you may find that there's a bundle of them that are signalling your brain to call it 'regret' and this causes a mind-body loop where the regret is nurtured rather than left to wither, which I assume would be your preference. Which comes first, the physical sensations or the thinking 'I regret'? This is the essence of Buddhist practice, learning how we generate dukkha and learning how to diffuse it.

Thank you. I will have to thnk on what you have said, give it a try. As I try to do something that will change our position I find that these physical manifesttations of this regret are quite debilitating, but I didn't think to target them. So, thanks.

Standard Western psychotherapy may be of help in a case like this as well. I have zero experience there but having an impartial person who's an expert on human psychology might help.

Sabaijai,

I've never seen "annatta" translated as "insubstantial"...I've always seen it as "not-self". How did you come up with "insubstantial"?

Also, do you think that "regret" is always a result of unskillfullness?

Chownah

Chownah anatta can be translated many ways including non-substantiality, non-essentiality and non-self.

Please reread my post - I said that regret may be a result of akusala kamma (unskilful/unwholesome action) linked to the object of regret. Now that I think about it further I'd say it's definitely the result of akusala kamma somewhere, as is all dukkha. In which case it might be linked to other kamma having nothing to do with the object of regret. Probably not beneficial to think of regret in these terms though. Better to bring everything back to the present and work forward from there, don't you think?