Bestest High Season Ever

[WinnieTheKhwai]

This is going to be subjective, but based on what I see around me this looks like the busiest high season in the history of Chiang Mai tourism.. It was actually a challenge finding a mid range (800-1400 or so) hotel room in the downtown area, and just looking around on the streets there are tourists enjoying Chiang Mai everywhere.

In addition to the usual Western nationalities I'm also seeing more middle eastern and Asian tourists, especially Chinese. I'm realizing now that these are not just 'bodies on a tour bus', I'm seeing independent travellers from China, having a holiday pretty much in the same style Western people have been having since maturing from the group tour model and shoe-string backpacking. Middle class families, couples, groups of friends and even solo travelers. That is especially good for the type of small local businesses that Chiang Mai is so good at, the little restaurants, boutiques, guesthouses and hotels/B&B places. And bars, even. If this keeps up it won't matter anymore what kind of girls work on Loy Kroh or not, it'll be a bigger party regardless of any local talent!

Beijing, right now, is -11(!) degrees. Shanghai is 4 degrees and raining. And incredibly congested hives of people. Enter Chiang Mai which is a balmy 20 or 30 something degrees, a lot more laid back and friendly, cheaper than big Chinese cities, not too long a flight and offers an easy visa on arrival.

Bring on the Chinese chicks, the future is looking bright!

Edited February 7, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Rasseru]

High time for a high-speed rail connection to China!

[Payboy]

Must be that movie.

[Ulysses G.]

I have to wonder about your conclusions. There are a fair number of tourists, but not a lot of the kind that spend much money. In general, from what I have observed, the Chinese are very frugal. Of course, some businesses are still doing well, but over all, I would say not anything like a few years ago when more free spending Westerners were flocking here.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[watcharacters]

I thought high season is pretty much considered over by this time of year.

[DaBloodyMess]

I have to wonder about your conclusions. There are a fair number of tourists, but not a lot of the kind that spend much money. In general, from what I have observed, the Chinese are very frugal. Of course, some businesses are still doing well, but over all, I would say not anything like a few years ago when more free spending Westerners were flocking here.

A friend who owns a place (and is Chinese himself) mentioned the frugal nature of Chinese tourists to me.

He was more specifically speaking about the independent ones rather than tour packages.... he said that all they talk about when sitting around together chatting in their own lingo is how to save a baht in every conceivable way.

He seemed genuinely embarrassed about how stingy they are.

[Ulysses G.]

I thought high season is pretty much considered over by this time of year.

It used to stretch from November until Songkran in April. Not anymore.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[hellodolly]

I have to wonder about your conclusions. There are a fair number of tourists, but not a lot of the kind that spend much money. In general, from what I have observed, the Chinese are very frugal. Of course, some businesses are still doing well, but over all, I would say not anything like a few years ago when more free spending Westerners were flocking here.

Like WTK says it is subjective. No the used book market is not as good as it used to be. But it will get better as the expat community grows.

The number of people on tour is a record breaking one thus leading to a huge success in the hotel and food industry. While the number of travelers spending money will increase the various sociological backgrounds will change the areas they spend money in.

[Thakkar]

I have to wonder about your conclusions. There are a fair number of tourists, but not a lot of the kind that spend much money. In general, from what I have observed, the Chinese are very frugal. Of course, some businesses are still doing well, but over all, I would say not anything like a few years ago when more free spending Westerners were flocking here.

I'm glad you said 'frugal' because they're not stingy. HK Tourist association figures, which are very reliable, indicate that Chinese tourists to HK spend more per night than any other arrival (HK$9k+). Chinese tourists tend to be frugal when spending on dining, entertainment and hotels. Their spending skews heavily towards shopping. The same seems to be true of Chinese tourists to Thailand. A week ago, Mrs T read me a Thai newspaper story on Chinese tourists that indicated they spend heavily on items such a baby milk formula, toothpaste, shampoo and Jasmine Rice. It's an odd assortment of items, and to explain it, here's a summery of recent a happening in HK gleaned from various HK cantonese language talk show podcasts:

--

China makes enough baby milk formula for domestic needs and bans any import of foreign milk formula to protect local conglomerates. This means domestic producers, in the absence of foreign competition charge about 30% more than the price of a foreign-produced milk formula available at HK retail shops. So some opportunity for arbitrage whereby Chinese day trippers buy and smuggle the product for Chinese consumers has always existed, but it's never been a big problem as the small price difference means demand hasn't been that high.

That changed when Chinese consumers lost faith in the local products due to repeated tainted milk scandals that resulted in dead and seriously maimed Chinese babies. The Chinese government has repeatedly failed to address these transgressions by Chinese manufacturers leading finally to a complete collapse of faith by consumers. The result has been that any Chinese parent with the means now buys only foreign milk powder that is smuggled in from HK and elsewhere. With Chinese buyers buying up milk formula by the shitload, HK, Macao, and even Taiwanese parents are finding it more and more difficult to buy milk formula for their babies even at double the normal price. Chinese buyers, running out of stocks to buy up in HK, Macao, and Taiwan, are going as far afield as Holland, Australia and New Zealand. Some Macao mothers have formed cooperatives to send buyers back to China to buy back (at three times the price) formula that was originally bought in Macao and smuggled to China.

This would all be farcical if we weren't talking about hungry babies all round.

--

In the past Chinese tourists spent on luxury brands, watches and high-end electronics. They also tend to spend on medical care and drugs that they can be confident are not faked. The notion that Chinese are stingy and westerners are free-spenders is not supported by the facts. Such notions, though false, are useful for some people who like to trot them out to feel somehow superior.

T

[LawrenceChee]

Chinese tourists tend to appear "frugal" as their concept of a vacation still defers from a western concept

For many of the middle class who you see around Thailand right now, their concept of a good vacation is to see everything important from their brochures of to-do list ( Doi Suthep, Tiger Kingdom, ride an elephant etc )

They like to spend their money on shopping for gifts for family...it's immense family value when you bring loads of gifts back and indicates your social status ...no right / wrong just cultural ...as such I'd you head off to Tops at airport plaza which is listed on Chinese websites as the place to be for last minute shipping you will see them with big trolleys of chocolates, milk powder and Thai snacks filled to the brim

A hotel room / a tuk tuk ride is like what they would spend back home , it's has to be clean, have free wifi and a hot shower ...I'm staying at a local motel charging 650 baht a night and its filled to the brim with independent Chinese families asking me for advice on where to shop. Most middle class families don't see the need to splurge on an expensive room ...which explains the richest hotelier in china is Jinjiang group which built its hotel business catering to the masses

Luxury stays like Meriden which is also filled with Chinese is normally company groups (VW china is there now) where the boss is paying

When the promenade opens later in the year, expect to see them all there ...for them buying an LV bag that lasts for years and the " face value" is better value than staying at the 4 seasons especially if its on your own tab hence the frugal impression

Thank his thy have not found out about Rimping yet ....so there are still quiet places for the residents to shop.

[elektrified]

Chinese tourism is the future of Thailand. I saw a show the other day with the principals from the Central Group of companies being interviewed in English. They are building a huge Central mall in Bangkok (37 Floors, 70,000 square meters) opening at the end of this year to accommodate the Chinese "weekend shoppers" who find Hong Kong too expensive now but find Thailand "cheap". They showed some Chinese shoppers and interviewed a few of them. Some shoppers in their mid-20's spent over 300,000 THB on clothes, gifts and other items during a single weekend of shopping (and eating). Besides the usual designer clothes they buy odd things like hundreds of cans of that Snake brand cooling powder, baby milk and other baby products, etc. They already have concierge service where the Chinese shoppers are met at the airport, picked up, taken to their hotel and then the shopping begins. The concierge has already been faxed a list of the items they want and can take them around to buy them in a reasonable order. The Chinese shoppers also said it is common for friends to give them money to make purchases for them, and then the next time the friends go on weekend shopping trips, they in turn buy things for their friends.

I saw another show a few months back and according to Thai business owners in Phuket, Chinese middle-class families spend on average 50% more than white Western tourists. I don't think they are stingy but are looking for the best value for their money in terms of lodging, food, etc. but instead, spend heavily on shopping.

Edited February 7, 2013 by elektrified

[rene123]

It is an interesting topic. I don't have prior knowledge of previous years, but I have seen all the tour busses filled with Chinese. The huge busses park anywhere they can and block the traffic everywhere. I think LawrenceChee nailed it from what I've observed.

[LawrenceChee]

The Chinese believe in paying for value and shopping for material accumulation

I just completed a project for an American cruise company that was trying to bring more ships to Asia to stem their losses in Europe / US routes

When I first presented my business case, they were all befuddled and disbelieving that the model I presented will work

Fast forward to today , they operate the biggest ships here in Asia which are the first to be quipped with luxury watch shops selling pieces ($20,000 USD and above ) and they have changed their tables from a $5 bet to minimum $5000 bet black jack tables and reaping the rewards from taking this risk of changing their business model

From an outsider point of view , it's amazing watching them snapped up omegas like they are swatches in these shops ...people watching at its new phase ...

[barefoot1988]

peharps in f&b but not so in the jewelry industries, i guess. my wife had a jewelry shop in bkk and afew others in partnership, the biggest spenders are chinese, to a point i find it scary to see all these cash transaction. no other nationality came close to their spendings

[LawrenceChee]

Cash and gold are what they believe in ...

[mic6ard]

There is an increase in number of tourists, but unfortunately the average grade of these tourists are lower than normal. Their spending power is low, and they are very selective in where they shop/eat/etc.

A friend of mine's a guide, complaint a while ago that they (his current group) didn't need anything but a driver and a bus, all the bookings were done back home. His company didn't do anything.

So really it's quantity Vs quality. Right now it's more people and less quality of people/

[LawrenceChee]

Hahahah that is funny seeing that a lot of threads bashing them for being bus troopers ...now that they are getting more savvy in booking things on their own ..they become low quality

We of the western demographics have been doing it for ages and honestly in Chiang Mai unless you want a real historical lesson on the moat and the city lanna history and engage a guide that can give you this kind of information

The rest of the city is easy navigation and all you need is a bus if you have a big family

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have to wonder about your conclusions. There are a fair number of tourists, but not a lot of the kind that spend much money. In general, from what I have observed, the Chinese are very frugal. Of course, some businesses are still doing well, but over all, I would say not anything like a few years ago when more free spending Westerners were flocking here.

A friend who owns a place (and is Chinese himself) mentioned the frugal nature of Chinese tourists to me.

He was more specifically speaking about the independent ones rather than tour packages.... he said that all they talk about when sitting around together chatting in their own lingo is how to save a baht in every conceivable way.

Yes, that seems radically different from Western backpackers.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

There is an increase in number of tourists, but unfortunately the average grade of these tourists are lower than normal. Their spending power is low, and they are very selective in where they shop/eat/etc.

A friend of mine's a guide, complaint a while ago that they (his current group) didn't need anything but a driver and a bus, all the bookings were done back home. His company didn't do anything.

Right, so what I'm seeing and posting is that this seems to be changing. Middle class urban people booking a flight and a hotel, rent a bicycle and go explore on their own, their English being good enough to enable that and not be shipped around like tour group cattle following a dude with a whistle and a flag. The dude with the flag may be complaining, but I can't see it as anything other than a positive.

Then you meet them at the same restaurants, bars and coffee shops that everyone else visits. (I guess I'm approaching this more from a social aspect than a business aspect. I don't really have anything to sell but my wit and charm, and even that comes free most days. )

Edited February 7, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[DaBloodyMess]

I have to wonder about your conclusions. There are a fair number of tourists, but not a lot of the kind that spend much money. In general, from what I have observed, the Chinese are very frugal. Of course, some businesses are still doing well, but over all, I would say not anything like a few years ago when more free spending Westerners were flocking here.

A friend who owns a place (and is Chinese himself) mentioned the frugal nature of Chinese tourists to me.

He was more specifically speaking about the independent ones rather than tour packages.... he said that all they talk about when sitting around together chatting in their own lingo is how to save a baht in every conceivable way.

Yes, that seems radically different from Western backpackers.

Not many Western backpackers I know will haggle over a 10baht bag of fruit or a 20baht coconut...

They run a few backpacker joints and are used to cheap Charlies. The Chinese that they are having to deal with take it to a whole new level.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of middle class Chinese spending up in airport plaza. there is also a less visible low range of Chinese tourist that is as cheap as the meanest of western backpackers (not even spending money on booze )

Edited February 7, 2013 by DaBloodyMess

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Not many Western backpackers I know will haggle over a 10baht bag of fruit or a 20baht coconut...

Oh yes they will! I need to not look further than myself, and those around me when I first got to Thailand. $*&@ I even avoided buying water by refilling from the water cooler at banks, and asked market ladies if they would please sell me half a portion of chilli paste so I avoided having to splash out a full 10 baht. I'm hard resisting mentioning nationalities here as that wouldn't be proper (or allowed), but I have seen people do things that you wouldn't even expect from a homeless person pusing a shopping cart through the streets.

They run a few backpacker joints and are used to cheap Charlies. The Chinese that they are having to deal with take it to a whole new level.

Good. Makes it easy to get chicks drunk. I wonder how you say in Chinese "Hi, can I buy you a strawberry mojito?"

(Again I'm approaching this as a regular Joe, not someone trying to increase a bottom line.)

EDIT: Ah, here we are: http://translate.google.com/#en/zh-CN/Can%20I%20give%20you%20a%20strawberry%20mojito%3F

Edited February 7, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[DaBloodyMess]

Good. Makes it easy to get chicks drunk. I wonder how you say in Chinese "Hi, can I buy you a strawberry mojito?"

I tried this tactic already, they go to bed too early

...so they can get up nice and ealry to do their laundry in the sink

And yeah, I am not out to make money either - just calling it as I see it

[rene123]

Is "Bestest" even a word? Or is Winnie just trying to be funny? I thought a simple "Best" was sufficient.

Chiang Mai is changing rapidly and there is nothing any negative thinking person can do about it. Anyone wanting to live here in the future is just going to have to adjust. There are already several discussions on the poorly designed and inadequate immigration office policies.

[rene123]

Right, so what I'm seeing and posting is that this seems to be changing. Middle class urban people booking a flight and a hotel, rent a bicycle and go explore on their own, their English being good enough to enable that and not be shipped around like tour group cattle following a dude with a whistle and a flag. The dude with the flag may be complaining, but I can't see it as anything other than a positive.

They still travel in groups. Today, while I was having lunch, a young, English speaking Asian (Thai or Chinese ?) was leading a group of young Chinese women and asked the Thai-Chinese owner of the cafe I was at, if they served food fresh, and did they offer Wi-Fi. Apparantely SOMETHING wasn't quite right and the young lady marched off with her group in tow.

I also see them bottling up traffic on rented bicycles, without a care in the world.

[TommoPhysicist]

I have to wonder about your conclusions. There are a fair number of tourists, but not a lot of the kind that spend much money. In general, from what I have observed, the Chinese are very frugal. Of course, some businesses are still doing well, but over all, I would say not anything like a few years ago when more free spending Westerners were flocking here.

I have to agree with you UG.

Bars are empty, Chinese don't seem to use them.

All I ever see them do is rent m/cs and drive around doing free stuff.

[TommoPhysicist]

Good. Makes it easy to get chicks drunk. I wonder how you say in Chinese "Hi, can I buy you a strawberry mojito?"

Nee how, wow keyee gay nee my cowmy mojito?

Edited February 7, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Is "Bestest" even a word? Or is Winnie just trying to be funny? I thought a simple "Best" was sufficient.

You bet your sweet bippy it is!

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bestest

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bestest

It's there to brighten up the title and give it an exuberant note. And to draw in the final 2% of professional pedants who wouldn't otherwise click to read the topic.

Chiang Mai is changing rapidly and there is nothing any negative thinking person can do about it. Anyone wanting to live here in the future is just going to have to adjust.

Yes. 'have to adjust' sounds a bit like it's a negative, or a challenge at least. My take is that people mature and evolve all the time, just by their own experiences and accomplishments in life. The "Me" 20 years ago wouldn't appreciate many of the things I highly appreciate today. It almost feels like Chiang Mai matures and grows with me, keeping a fairly even pace. I may save this for another topic, but it almost seems like Chiang Mai is offering decent coffee, cakes and higher end restaurant just about at the same time when I can afford them occasionally. It provides a choice of schools and family entertainment to coincide with the arrival of my kids. They built ring roads with awesome tunnels just as I got to drive a car. Nightlife options are growing all the time too. (New all you can drink Beer Buffet opening tomorrow ) And you know what, I have a feeling a good choice of retirement homes will be there around the time I need that, too.

Edited February 7, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Good. Makes it easy to get chicks drunk. I wonder how you say in Chinese "Hi, can I buy you a strawberry mojito?"

I tried this tactic already, they go to bed too early

...so they can get up nice and ealry to do their laundry in the sink

Funny you mention that, as I do my laundry in the sink too when I travel. Hotel laundry prices in many countries are such that it makes more sense to throw it in the bin and buy new. Or bring some Fab.

[rene123]

Well said, Winnie. ... in reply to my light hearted comment.

When I said "adjust", I meant adapt to the changes that are coming whether we like it or not. There is no sense in living in the past, and as we grow older we learn new things. Two years ago I never would have thought I would return to Thailand and enjoy it so much. Chiang Mai is very different than 1998 when I first came here as a back packer. And, I am learning new things that I didn't notice before.

[hellodolly]

Good. Makes it easy to get chicks drunk. I wonder how you say in Chinese "Hi, can I buy you a strawberry mojito?"

I tried this tactic already, they go to bed too early

...so they can get up nice and ealry to do their laundry in the sink

Funny you mention that, as I do my laundry in the sink too when I travel. Hotel laundry prices in many countries are such that it makes more sense to throw it in the bin and buy new. Or bring some Fab.

My wife would rather die than have me do that. I am in no way going to try to change her.