Settlement Visa For Thai Stepdaughter

[zak]

Hi all,

I am in the process of applying for a settlement/family reunion visa for my thai wife's 9 year old daughter who is in Thailand living

with her grandparents.

we are in the uk at the moment and have left it in the hands of a visa/solicitor to arrange the visa (G.A.M Legal Alliance) in Bangkok which is costing us 73,000 bht plus paper work costs.

Now heres the tricky bit my wife came to the UK on a holiday visa in mar 2010 with our 2 year old son who has a British passport

and while here we applied for an extension to the holiday visa and were granted a 3 year residence permit with limited leave to remain due to the fact that her family home was only 8 km from where Thai and Cambodia troops were fighting at the time, the permit was issued before 09/july/2012

so i believe we come under different rules to the present ones?

Now bearing in mind none of this was ever planed and is why we have not until now realised that we are going to settle in the UK and want

my wife's daughter our sons sister here with us, we have financial records showing monthly payments for her daughters welfare and one substantial payment to my wife's mother as part of her upbringing, we have photos hundreds of the children together at different stages from new born to present, we have records of constant contact by telephone, we visited thailand last month to get the ball rolling with the visa and it was one of the hardest things to do leaving her behind and feeling helpless because its just out of our hands try explaining that to a 9 year old as my wife did.

my wife now works for the N.H.S on a permanent contract. she has completed an NVQ in English and has completed NVQ courses within her employment she earns around £14,500 per anum before tax about £12,000 after tax

I earn around £9600 after tax per anum, We have around £7000 savings and we receive some tax credits for help with nursery fees etc..

but these tax credits will be minimal in six months when our son will attend state school.

the reason i am asking these questions is because i seem to be doing everything for this visa company and after investigating myself found

that because of the date my wife's permit was issued we may have an easier process than under new rules form vaf 4a appendix 1. they were or are going to apply for a settlement visa under the present rules? I'm not totally convinced this company knows what there doing, we have paid them half the money upfront, i would be very grateful for any advise or info with this as i dont want to loose a small fortune due to this companys lack of knowledge regarding our situation i understand its not strait forward but surely its there job to investigate what are the correct forms to use ect..

Thanks in advance

justin

[theoldgit]

As you say yours is an unusual case, I would share your concern over the response you are getting from you current advisors, have you already paid them their fee, it does seem a bit excessive?

I have never heard of G.A.M Legal Alliance, that in itself doesn't mean anything, did you research them before you engaged their services?

[zak]

HI oldgit

we have paid them half the fee up front and the rest to be paid with the visa application fee when they submit it.

As far as research we checked them out through the internet and met them in asoke Bangkok where there head office is located

the building and offices were very proffesional and the philipino lady/solicitor dealing with us spoke very good English also her Thai secretary made my wife feel confident at the time, they are a large company dealing in all departments of law and immigration which is why we handed over the money and chose them to deal with everything in our absence, but once i was back in the UK and done a little research myself i feel they are doing little for the money and contact is non existent unless we contact them first and it seems im directing them with which way and how to deal with this visa application which if thats going to be the case then im looking for anyones help and advise as i can pass the info on.

hopefully i am wrong and this lady will sort everything for us but even still all advise appreciated

Edited February 10, 2013 by zak

[7by7]

From what you say, your wife has limited leave to remain in the UK which expires in March of this year; correct?

What steps have you taken to extend this, or, if possible, obtain Indefinite Leave to Remain for her?

If she is about to apply for ILR then I would advise waiting for her to be granted that.

This is because once she has ILR then her child will be granted Indefinite Leave to Enter and, more importantly, you will not have to meet the new financial requirements.

Instead you will simply have to show that you can support yourselves and the child without recourse to public funds.

The same applies, of course, if your wife already has ILR, in which case you should apply now.

From what you have said the company you are using haven't told you this and so, to be frank, were I you I'd write of the money you have already paid them, unless you can get a refund, and do it yourself.

If still unsure, particularly about your wife's status in the UK, then speak to an OISC regulated adviser in the UK. Or contact Thai Visa Express, both Paul and Tony there are competent and know what they are talking about; more than the people at the company you are using appear to do!

Edited February 10, 2013 by 7by7

[zak]

My wife's permit expires July 2014 and have been told from UKBA that she will have to apply for the same type of visa she has at the moment at least a month before the current one is due to expire and hopefully get granted a further three years which should not be a problem i have been told after which time we can apply for ILR, which would be to long to wait for her daughter to come to the UK also the longer time mother and daughter apart the harder it becomes to get a visa apparently? and also my wife misses her madly and we want this sorting out asap.

As i stated earlier her limited leave to remain was granted before 09/july/2012 and from what i can gather we don't come under the new strict rules in force i think we apply under the old rules before 09/July/2012. on form VAF4A APPENDIX 1 I would be grateful if someone could confirm this.

Edited February 10, 2013 by zak

[ThaiVisaExpress]

I think that might partly depend on why the extension of stay was granted. The financial requirements apply to those who were granted leave to enter or remain as a family member, either before or after 9th July 2012. You say :

"we applied for an extension to the holiday visa and were granted a 3 year residence permit with limited leave to remain due to the fact that her family home was only 8 km from where Thai and Cambodia troops were fighting at the time"

What was the reason for the extension of stay ? Because it was unsafe to return to Thailand, or because she is your wife ?

You say that you should be treated as having made an application before 9th July 2012, so this might apply :

A person who has been granted, or made an application for, leave to enter or remain before 9 July 2012 in one of the following categories will remain subject to the Immigration Rules in force as at 8 July 2012 until settlement (the grant of indefinite leave to remain) even where the application is granted on or after 9 July 2012:

•

person exercising rights of access to a child resident in the UK (see Part 7 of the Immigration Rules);

•

fiancé(e);

•

proposed civil partner;

•

spouse;

•

civil partner;

•

same sex partner;

•

unmarried partner;

•

child;

•

adult dependent relative;

•

post-flight family member of a person granted refugee leave or humanitarian protection in the UK; or

•

14 year long residence.

But I think this is more appropriate if your wife was granted further leave because she couldn't return to Thailand, especially as your wife was granted 3 years Leave to Remain, and can apply for a further 3 years :

Individuals granted Discretionary Leave before 9 July 2012

Those who before 9 July 2012 have been granted leave under the Discretionary Leave policy in force at the time will continue to be dealt with under that policy through to settlement if they qualify for it (normally after accruing six years of Discretionary Leave unless Discretionary Leave has been granted because the individual is excluded from a grant of asylum or humanitarian protection, in which case 10 years leave is usually required), subject to the individual meeting the new criminality thresholds as set out in Appendix FM (paragraphs S-EC and S-LTR).

However, this is hidden in the transitional arrangements for applications made under the new or old rules, and could be the bottom line :

Note: Applications received from those who have not previously been granted EC or limited leave as a family member (under Part 8) prior to the 9 July, will not fall for consideration under these transitional arrangements and will be considered under new Rules.

I think you will need to contact UKBA to see what they think, and. if necessary, an immigration lawyer.

Edited February 11, 2013 by ThaiVisaExpress

[zak]

Yes she was granted the residence permit under discretionary leave.

so does that mean we apply under the old rules before 9/july/2012

[zak]

The UKBA gave this reason for issuing the resident permit on the 28 july 2011

"Due to the particular circumstances of your case, your leave has now been varied until 28 july 2014

for a purpose not covered by the immigration rules and on a discretionary basis due to your private

and family life with your British citizen partner and child."

so yes it was at the UKBA discretion and issued before before the 09 july 2012

so do we apply under the old rules and also does anyone think we have a chance of getting

my wife's daughter over in the UK with us?

Do the UKBA look at a young brother and sister/ mother daughter reunion compassionately or is it all just black and white

in there eyes regarding finances ect with this type of application?

Also when we submit a covering letter with the application can i write one on behalf of me and my wife

or is it best to do a covering letter for each of us?

thanks for all your replies so far

Edited February 11, 2013 by zak

[ThaiVisaExpress]

As I said, it would be best to ask UKBA whether or not any other dependants ( your wife's daughter) will be treated under the new rules or the old rules. The sections of the rules that I quoted earlier appear to slightly contradict each other, I think, and I certainly wouldn't want to give you a definitive yes or no without contacting UKBA first.

The rules seem to talk about people who have been given leave to enter, or remain, for family life, not because of problems in their home country ( although the two could be the same, of course), and UKBA have said that the leave was granted "on a discretionary basis due to your private and family life", so your wife's daughter might well be treated under the old rules. But this does appear to contradict that statement :

Note: Applications received from those who have not previously been granted EC or limited leave as a family member (under Part 8) prior to the 9 July, will not fall for consideration under these transitional arrangements and will be considered under new Rules.

That said, if treated under the old rules, you will still need to show that you can support and acccommodate the daughter adequately and, most importantly, your wife will have to show that she has had sole responsibility for her daughter's upbringing. Without knowing any details about your wife's ( and her daughter's life in Thailand) I can already foresee, from what you have said, some problems ( and don't forget that UKBA will already have some statements on file about your wife's life in Thailand which led to the grant of discretionary leave). For instance, why did your wife leave her daughter in Thailand if it was (presumably) unsafe for the daughter to live in Thailand, or why didn't your wife make arrangements to bring her daughter to the UK earlier if her life was in danger. Or, if the daughter's life wasn't in danger, maybe because she was living away from the danger zone, then why couldn't your wife have lived in Thailand, away from the danger zone, too ? As I said, whatever you told UKBA is now on record. If, for instance, your wife's daughter is still at school in her home town ( in the danger zone), living with family, etc, then it might be hard to argue that your wife has had her best interests at heart.

UKBA don't really look at "reunions" compassionately. They consider them under the immigration rules, and the matter of "sole responsibility" is possibly the main deciding factor. Where child applications are concerned it is more than just looking at the financial aspect of the application.

Further, from what you say, you meet the financial requirements anyway, so it doesn't really matter if the application needs to be considered under the new rules or old rules ? Your main problem will be proving sole responsibility, and I hope your agent has explained that to you ?

Edited February 12, 2013 by ThaiVisaExpress

[zak]

The reason we never applied for her daughter to come to the UK was because we originally only

came here on a holiday visa for a short 3 month stay,

but things changed while we were here in the UK,

and yes things are quite calm at the moment between Thailand and Cambodia and it was always the intention for my wife to return to Thailand but now our son has become settled here in the UK speaking English and due to start nursery school in September and my wife has accidentally and slowly become settled and working here in the UK and only now do we realize that we want to settle in the UK as a family this being the reason we haven't applied earlier for a visa for her daughter

[7by7]

You may want to explain in the application why she didn't come with you on the original visit.

If she had she would almost certainly have been granted discretionary leave along with her mother.

I assume that she was mentioned in both your wife's visit visa application and her discretionary leave applications. If not, you have an uphill struggle facing you.

[zak]

Yes 7 by 7 the daughter was mentioned in both application letters and we explained my wife had a daughter and it was our long term plan to retire in Thailand eventually as a family unit but even though it seems we favored one child, we didn't we asked for an extension to the holiday visa and were granted discretionary leave.

and things rapidly calmed down between Thailand and Cambodia so we knew our daughter was OK and it was never as easy as "were going to go and get her"

As they included in restrictions that this leave does not allow you to bring relatives or dependents.

and remember we only asked for an extension to the holiday visa as i was sure this recent conflict would blow over so there was no case for us to apply for her to come to the UK up until now!

Like i said my wife and son have become accidentally settled here if that makes sense.

thanks for your replies 7b7 i take note of what you say, as you actually helped me out with our original application for visitors visa extension

in 2010

and everyone else on this forum great bunch of guys.