17 Gunmen Dead In Thai Military Base Attack: Army

[maidu]

Muslims are not by nature cowards & violent, that is just a bigoted statement.

Actually, it's not at all cowardly to attack a military garrison. I'd rather see that, than attacks on street sweepers and teachers. The stupid decision (by Thai military brass) to say there were informants (if it's true) will stifle future informant cooperation.

[simple1]

Muslims are not by nature cowards & violent, that is just a bigoted statement.

Actually, it's not at all cowardly to attack a military garrison. I'd rather see that, than attacks on street sweepers and teachers. The stupid decision (by Thai military brass) to say there were informants (if it's true) will stifle future informant cooperation.

As I posted in another topic on this matter. In today's BKK Post is a report that the Marines were prepared for the assault as some militants had been killed some days ago & they found maps and documents that identified the Marines location for attack. Again why do Thai authorities provide this level of detail to the media, unless they realised they stuffed up on previous media briefing and now trying misinformation.

[DeepInTheForest]

As a starting point to understand the conflict, from a Thai perspective, have a read of a paper written by a Thai Army Colonel who attended the Centre for Defence and Strategic Studies in Australia.

http://www.defence.g...d_Nurakkate.pdf

Muslims are not by nature cowards & violent, that is just a bigoted statement.

Many thanks for the link to the paper, simple1. Absolutely indispensable reading for those interested in the situation in the South. The author, Chumphot Nurakkate, is to be commended for a thorough and remarkably objective account.

Nurakkate makes many points, many having to do with the sorry history of Thai missteps, miscalculations, and outright bungling. The British empire left its clumsy fingerprints all over the current mess as well, in the form of the Anglo‐Siamese Treaty of 1909, which imposed unworkable borders on ethnic peoples.

Since the turn of the 20th century, Thai policies toward the region have been almost determinedly misguided. A heavy-handed assimilationist policy started in the 1930s actually banned Malay dress and language, and closed Muslim courts which had been handling local affairs since the days of the Patani sultanate.

The story of Haji Sulong bin Abdul Kadir is particularly striking, and makes the reader want to cry out in frustration and rage:

...the first civil non‐belligerent political movement to emerge in the

area was the PPM (Pattani’s People Movement), organized by Haji Sulong bin

Abdul Kadir. Its aim was to improve the welfare of the local people through

constitutional means. In April 1947, Haji Sulong bin Abdul Kadir tried to

negotiate with the Thai government by submitting seven demands. On the list

was the call for an end to the assimilation policy in the south. The Thai government responded by arresting him and charging him with treason. This

led to widespread protests in Pattani and surrounding districts. He was

released in 1952, and then killed while in police custody in August 1954. His

presumed murder instantly transformed him into a central symbol of ethnic

Malay Muslim resistance. This event also reflected the end of civil tolerance

against a repressive regime.

Edited February 14, 2013 by DeepInTheForest

[DeepInTheForest]

Forgive me for another post, but I feel compelled to include another excerpt from Nurakkate's paper linked to by simple1.

The Thai government introduced an amnesty program during the 1980s which

brought significant changes to the situation by the 1990s. Two important

initiatives were the... Civilian‐Police‐Military Command 43

(CPM43) and the Southern Border Provinces Administrative Centre (SBPAC)…. The SBPAC played a crucial role in fostering closer relations and mutual trust between the local community, security forces and government officials...These organizations helped reduce misunderstandings between Malay Muslims and government officials, and undermined the insurgent’s ability to use propaganda to gain supporters.

…Thaksin Shinawatra was Prime Minister from 2001 to 2006. During his time in

office, his strong leadership and what many see as harsh policies provided

conditions conducive to the escalation of the unrest. Because of the successful

policies implemented during the 1980s to the 1990s, violent incidents dropped

dramatically by the end of 1990s. At coming into office, Thaksin believed that

there were only an insignificant number of insurgents remaining, and only

criminal gangs involved in illicit activities in the southernmost provinces. As

such, he believed the best course of action was to dissolve the successful SBPAC

and CPM43 and to transfer all responsibilities to the police. Unfortunately, this

created a communications vacuum between the government and Muslims in

the area.

Thaksin’s brutal war on drugs campaign in 2003 claimed more than 2,500 lives including an unspecified number of Malay‐Muslims from the southern

provinces. This campaign, mostly enacted through extrajudicial police killings,

further aggravated Muslim hostility. In 2004, Thaksin employed what many

termed a ’heavy‐handed‘ military approach to the south, and two incidents in

particular are recognized as having had serious repercussions.

The first incident occurred at the Krue Se mosque.On 28 April 2004, around 200

insurgents attacked 11 police and military posts in Pattani, Yala and Songkhla.

Five officials and 107 rebels were killed. During this incident, 32 Muslims

retreated to the historic Krue Se mosque. A tense nine‐hour standoff,

followed by a full‐scale attack on the mosque, resulted in all 32 insurgents

being killed as well as one civilian. This incident fuelled public anger in the

south, and feelings of injustice were further stirred up by subsequent separatist

propaganda. Such feelings were compounded when, according to the report

of a government-appointed fact-finding commission, no attempts had

been made to initiate negotiations at all during the siege.

We love to beat up on Thaksin in these pages. Should we not take him to task for his most egregious and cruellest assaults upon our common humanity?

Edited February 14, 2013 by DeepInTheForest

[hellodolly]

Really not sure what you are getting at. You say

"I've read that 85% of the administrative and governmental personnel of the South are Buddhist while the population is overwhelmingly Muslim. How can that be just, or lead to anything but trouble? How would any of us feel if we were ruled by outsiders? Clearly, big money does not want the status quo to change-- there is a lot of wealth being pulled out of that tragic land."

What other religion in the world insists on being the ruling class. You are right in line with Islam beliefs If they have there way the whole world will be ruled by Muslims.

Then you went on to say

"Recently the government of the Philippines, after decades of violence, has agreed in principle to home rule for its Muslim districts. How much bloodshed could have been avoided if this approach had been employed earlier? How much longer will the situation in the South continue to wreck the lives of innocent people before the Thai government comes to grips with facts on the ground?"

Think of all the bloodshed that could have been avoided if the Muslims hadn't taken there better than thou attitude.

The south of Thailand is plagued with the same disease that plagues many countries Muslims desire to take over. Some with rampant uncontrolled birth in foreign nations.Some with guns and bombs. I realize that to your Muslim mind that is OK because Allah said it but it is not OK to the rest of the world.

Let the Muslims inflict there religion on Muslims and stop trying to take over the world.

It will be interesting to see how long it will be before the Muslims in the Philippines start to demand more.

Are you sure you've thought this through? Who's taking over who?

If Muslims are taking over in the South, how come the government is overwhelmingly Buddhist? Why are the resources being exploited by non-Malay Muslims?

And like others, I find the religious framing of this struggle to be disingenuous. It's about more than religion, isn't it?

Reread your own rambling.

You said the Muslims had taken over a part of the Philippines. reread mine I said

" You are right in line with Islam beliefs If they have there way the whole world will be ruled by Muslims."

I said nothing about taking over. Just what do you think the Muslims are doing in Afghanistan?

[mca]

self-deleted

Edited February 14, 2013 by mca

[HereIAm]

"We learned of the attack in advance from defected militants," Pramote told Thai television - Why are they making these public announcements, you would think that it will slow down the defection rates or at least provides intelligence to the insurgents.

Will the authorities now be providing protection for the defectors families?

It's like the old saying "only a fool tells all he knows".

Fool ? A ploy, maybe, to sow doubt in the enemy camp ?

[HereIAm]

The way the Thai government in Bangkok along with most of its citizens around the country and the super powers worldwide are ignoring this prolonged and continuing conflict is amazing to me. What will it take for the world police (USA, UK and France) to get involved help protect the people of the Deep South here in Thailand? Maybe after another insurgence strike with a higher profile target like some tourist places in Phuket or Pattaya will make the outside world help and take notice of this terrible conflict and loss of lives here in Thailand?

I hope not.

Secessionists are not particularly liked anywhere in the world. It's not easy for "world police" as you term them to side with secessionists. Everyone realises that what goes around comes around, and nobody wants to be caught in a stick cleaved by oneself.

[HereIAm]

seems no many readers know the facts about the south ?

In 1786, Siam (as Thailand was then called) expanded its influence(stole) to include

Patani and thus ended the Patani kingdom’s reign as a regional power.

In the process, Siam appointed leaders loyal to Siam to replace the existing rulers of

Patani and this led to the isolation of existing elites. This historical annexation

of the south serves as a more convincing reason behind the ongoing contention

between Malay Muslims and Siamese.

So they stole this muslim Kingdom ,kicked out the leaders and put their own puppet regime in.

The original not thai speaking people and non budist were forced to speak thai and become budists.

Well this will never happen ,this is so unfair ,they will rather die .

So all they do is to try to get back what is theirs.

Only sollution is to give those provonces back to the rightfull owners.But they wont loose face on this ,because they gave away parts of thailand on 14 different occasions and Rama5 said this was enough ,no more land could be given away.

I hope they win .But the chanse is small,look what happened in Ireland,Yougoslavia,mozambique,korea ,Vietnam..........

And i hope not to read those ignorant comments

And why do you think rewriting History is legitimate reason for violent camapigns that disturb peace, stability and development ? There can never be an end to turning back pages of History. Next you will ask the Americans to leave the USA and hand back territory to Indians. The Muslims of Patani will themselves have to give back Pattani to the people they stole it from, and so on. Not smart. Accept reality and settle down and do something good to your life. It's short.

[Buchholz]

The policy now, according to my lady (it has just been told in the Thai language news outlets) is that Yingluck has made an announcement that she will use Thai taxpayers money to compensate the families of the terrorists whom were killed in the attempt to overrun the base and kill the marines.

Shows a complete lack of understanding on how to do anything except smile and say "na ha"..

Compensation for terrorists is PTP policy. Amnesty should be suggested next.

I'll not hold my breath waiting for the Red Shirts to decry this particular instance of their much vaunted and often cried "Double Standards".

Compensation Double Standards....

It's 7.75 Million Baht for Red Shirts... and only a "pine box" for Southerners.

Suspiciously also is that the decision on compensation is made by SBPAC in this case, whereas for every other recipient it was the Cabinet.....

Families of 16 slain insurgents not entitled to large sum of compensations: SBPAC

The families of the 16 insurgents killed in an ambush in Narathiwat by Marines early Wednesday will not be entitled to any large compensations like those granted to people affected by political violence, the Southern Border Provinces Administrative Centre (SBPAC) announced Thursday.

This statement was issued to counter a remark made by Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung.

Deputy SBPAC Director Lertkiat Wongphophan said only small sums for funeral expenses were paid to the insurgents' families and Bt5,000 was given to the owner of each of the eight homes that were damaged by bullets during the gunfight. He said that the conditions for compensation of between Bt3 million and Bt7.5 million is only applicable to victims of insurgency, mistreatment by officials or red-shirt protestors, not to insurgents.

-- The Nation 2013-01-14

Edited February 14, 2013 by Buchholz

[NeverSure]

"We learned of the attack in advance from defected militants," Pramote told Thai television - Why are they making these public announcements, you would think that it will slow down the defection rates or at least provides intelligence to the insurgents.

Will the authorities now be providing protection for the defectors families?

Seems that bit of intel should have been left out. Why would you inform the muslim terrorist of you source? It seems so stupid to me.

In addition, what is thier objective, these Muslim terrorist. I know they hate the US, but why are they killing Buddhist?

Tell me that Muslims aren't by nature a violent people. Cowards all.

Go Marines!!!

Why are they killing Buddhists? They don't discriminate. They aren't targeting just Buddhists or anyone. They have a religious fervor about taking over the whole world for Allah. They think they have a religious duty to kill anyone who isn't Muslim, who they call infidels.

It should be intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer that these people will kill anyone, anywhere, in any country. Add to that the clear fact that they consider it a high honor to die for Allah, and you have big trouble.

The world simply needs to wise up and stop making excuses for them, or blaming anyone but the Muslims themselves for these killings.

[transam]

100 eh, trap set and a mere 16 taken out, hmmmmmm.