Your Thai Family's History?

[Chittychangchang]

I know it's history!

For example your brother or sister get's married to a German national who's grandparents turn out to be ex Nazi stormtoopers or such like.

We watched an old Vietnamese war movie recently and the ensuing conversation resulted in my Thai other half informing me that her grandparents used to provide food and shelter for the Viet Cong in the 1960's.

It was normal to them and they didn't think about the bigger picture.

Two reasons i thought it strange.

1, Did the Viet Cong ever venture into North/Central Thailand Certainly it's well documented that they only ventured into Laos, but my wifes family has always lived in Thailand!

2, I married a descendent of someone who was helping the war effort against the States which didn't sit well for me personally for a while.

How well do you know your other half's Thai history?

Bearing in mind this is all history now and the Thai's did struggle around Kanchanburi etc in WW2.

It would be interesting to hear other members stories.

[Semper]

How well do you know your other half's Thai history?

My wife didn't have any money, until she met me.

[scorecard]

I have no intention to criticize your reaction, but I wonder whether there is a lot more detail and local circumstances which need to be known and understood in cases like this.

On a different angle, I am a Vietnam veteran. Nowadays I am a visiting lecturer at universities in both the North and the South (I don't teach history or similar).

In the North many of my local faculty colleagues are quite old, they are nice people and they have gone out of their way to be helpful and to take care of me, many times I've enjoyed a meal and a local 33 beer with them. Most speak perfect English.

History has been raised a couple of times, but more in the context of the rough road the country has been through and now working towards democracy* albeit a bumpy road - and none of it raised by me, but usually several others in the group have politely and quickly said 'let's focus on the future'. (*with 99% expressing a desire for democracy.)

I would never ask any of them their personal history or what role (if any) they played during the conflict. But my guess is that at least a sprinkling, probably more, were soldiers / young officers in the red machine.

On the other hand I know very well that the western machine present in Vietnam in the conflict did some pretty shocking things, blatant and hideous acts breaking all tenants of human rights.

It's history and I'm quite happy to stay with the future.

[chiangmaikelly]

http://en.wikipedia....ids_in_Thailand

Vietnamese border raids in Thailand

80% of the bombing on North Vietnam came from Thai airbases.

Also you can google, “Those who served in Thailand were subjected to insurgent sapper attacks, sniper fire, and ...”

Thailand was a member of SEATO and as such requested assistance in the early 1960's from the other members of the treaty organization. Many countries came to Thailand's assistance.

A joint communiqué by Secretary of State Rusk and Thailand's Foreign Minister Thanat Khoman on March 6, 1962, in effect "bilateralized" the SEATO agreement, asserting that there was an American obligation to come to Thailand's support, even if other SEATO signatories refused to go along.

I never met any Thais who were on the Communist side although there were some. Most that I know fought or worked for the US or Australians.

[robblok]

Come on nothing wrong fighting against the USA, its not like they were angels back there. Nobody is an angel in war, and remember it looked as if they were invaders.

Sure i am on the side of the USA, but to hate people for opposing them is crazy. Its just different thinking. I can perfectly understand people now fighting against the US, same as i can understand the USA fighting. I draw the line when people start killing and targeting civilians, but a war between armies normal in my opinion.

[submaniac]

1, Did the Viet Cong ever venture into North/Central Thailand Certainly it's well documented that they only ventured into Laos, but my wifes family has always lived in Thailand!

It may be a misunderstanding on dates or who it was...

There have been skirmishes between the Thai and Vietnamese troops (when Vietnam invaded Cambodia).

http://en.wikipedia....ids_in_Thailand

And for a long time, there was a Thai communist guerilla war inside of Thailand. Apparently Ho Chi Minh himself arrived in Thailand to set up communist cells:

http://www.mca-marin...rgency-thailand

EDIT: oops I didn't see CMK had already posted the wikipedia on the border skirmishes between Thailand and Vietnamese troops.

[macksview]

father in law, fought in skirmishes against the pathet lao, elements of the khmer rouge (more like bandits he says), a couple of his friends were killed by thai communists in phu reua.

he also has told me mountainous parts of nan were "no go" zones into the 1990s for police and the army, after the amnesty, drug trafficking replaced idealism for the ex CTP men .

Ho chi minh, tried to get some revolution going in the far north east, there was a small secessionist movement , apparently they tried to get the six northernmost isarn provinces to become independent..

he says he did not take part in the thammasat massacre, but says he knew former colleagues who were sent to bangkok at the time, the border police not a lot to mess with at the time.

he recieved a couple of medals for his endeavours, some extra pension, discounts on many government services and a complete disdain for ma-ma instant noodles.

the only thing that gets him to travel any distance is a yearly reunion with old comrades.

[macksview]

there is "bac ho's" house up near udon, when he lived in the area.

cant remember exactly, but father in law, mentioned a memorial somewhere off the highway around Lom Sak, i seem to remember it was about the CTP and the police having a fairly big fight there.

father in law, mentioned australian and american personel as the first farangs he met, when he was patroling parts of the mekong.

lots of thai mercenaries were hired to fight the pathet lao.

[JurgenG]

I don't know if anybody ever had the same reaction.

I was watching a movie about the vietnam war and at one time there is a band of mad western soldiers coming in a village and they start shooting indiscriminately at old people, women and kids. I got suddenly very angry, it was my relatives they were shooting at. In a strange way, I was suddenly associating not with westerners but with asian people.

Did it happen to anybody else ?

[chiangmaikelly]

I don't know if anybody ever had the same reaction.

I was watching a movie about the vietnam war and at one time there is a band of mad western soldiers coming in a village and they start shooting indiscriminately at old people, women and kids. I got suddenly very angry, it was my relatives they were shooting at. In a strange way, I was suddenly associating not with westerners but with asian people.

Did it happen to anybody else ?

History channel today, Rising sun over Malaya and The Fall of Singapore. How do you feel watching them?

[krisb]

This is not how the thread was meant to go.

[chiangmaikelly]

This is not how the thread was meant to go.

I watched the Rising Sun over Malaya last night in Thai with my Thai wife. She related a lot of what her mother had told her about the Japanese. Her father kept an M-16 in the house as he was a government employee on the Cambodian border during the problems there. We almost get in a fight every time we see or discuss Thai history. Now most of the time I just shut up.

[macksview]

my wifes family history is sometimes great listening, some times it starts of highly interesting, but talk about sidetracking, just as i am getting answers with some modicum of understanding on the whos and whens, off they go into various bits about people off topic.

just like listening to old people talking about similar things in australia.

when in thailand, father in law pulls out maps, and off we go, it is great fun, then he will ask questions on places overseas, it is great bonding between us.

[Trembly]

The CPT only had a very loose affiliation with China and North Vietnam, and received very little in the way of war matiriels in proportion to what Vietnam / Lao received from China and the USSR.

Their sheer existance was in fact kept alive by the indiscriminate brutality of Thai government forces trying to stamp them out, which went on well after the end of the the American - Vietnam war

[submaniac]

I watched the Rising Sun over Malaya last night in Thai with my Thai wife. She related a lot of what her mother had told her about the Japanese. Her father kept an M-16 in the house as he was a government employee on the Cambodian border during the problems there. We almost get in a fight every time we see or discuss Thai history. Now most of the time I just shut up.

Yeah. I hear you. I was told stories of my relatives hiding when the Japanese bombed Thailand...and then you realize, "wait Thailand technically was an ally of Japan and the axis and wasn't bombed by Japan...." and then you realize you should just nod your head, keep your mouth shut and go "uh huh."

[chiangmaikelly]

I watched the Rising Sun over Malaya last night in Thai with my Thai wife. She related a lot of what her mother had told her about the Japanese. Her father kept an M-16 in the house as he was a government employee on the Cambodian border during the problems there. We almost get in a fight every time we see or discuss Thai history. Now most of the time I just shut up.

Yeah. I hear you. I was told stories of my relatives hiding when the Japanese bombed Thailand...and then you realize, "wait Thailand technically was an ally of Japan and the axis and wasn't bombed by Japan...." and then you realize you should just nod your head, keep your mouth shut and go "uh huh."

Yup that was the word. I typed "Ally" into the google translator. That's what started it. Tonight I keep my mouth shut and watch about the fall of Penang.

[Beetlejuice]

From my experience, the Thais know virtually nothing about their history and family ancestors.

As far as I know, in the past, birth, marriages and death records were never kept in Thailand until the late 1940s. All my Thai wife can tell me about her family history is that her paternal great grandfather came from China and her grandfather was involved in skirmishes with the French and that’s about all she knows. She doesn’t even know their full names or from what part of China they originated from and it`s the same with all her siblings and cousins, no one knows anything. I once asked my wife’s 86-year-old Uncle what he did during WW2. He just gave me a blank look, as if to say, what war?

On my side of the family our history is well documented, but as for the wife, that’s a different story. It would be interesting to be able to trace my wife’s lineage back a few hundred years, but in Thailand, I wouldn’t know where to start or even if it`s possible?

[submaniac]

You know CMK, after I posted and after your post, I looked it up. It looks like the Japanese did bomb Bangkok...once.

According to Wikipedia

"This was the only bombing raid during the Japanese invasion of Thailand because the Thai government acceded to Japan's demands by 1pm that same day."

It was actually the RAF and the Americans that did the rest of the bombing. But when discussing such things with Thais, it is best to keep your mouth shut and agree with whatever it is they said.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Bangkok_in_World_War_II

[robblok]

I watched the Rising Sun over Malaya last night in Thai with my Thai wife. She related a lot of what her mother had told her about the Japanese. Her father kept an M-16 in the house as he was a government employee on the Cambodian border during the problems there. We almost get in a fight every time we see or discuss Thai history. Now most of the time I just shut up.

Yeah. I hear you. I was told stories of my relatives hiding when the Japanese bombed Thailand...and then you realize, "wait Thailand technically was an ally of Japan and the axis and wasn't bombed by Japan...." and then you realize you should just nod your head, keep your mouth shut and go "uh huh."

Sub, isnt it hard agreeing with something you know is untrue..and you are able to express yourself 100% in Thai ?. Maybe its better just to keep the peace at times but it does show the mentality here at times. I know and acknowledge that my country did bad things in Indonesia, no need to white wash stuff like that.

[chiangmaikelly]

I watched the Rising Sun over Malaya last night in Thai with my Thai wife. She related a lot of what her mother had told her about the Japanese. Her father kept an M-16 in the house as he was a government employee on the Cambodian border during the problems there. We almost get in a fight every time we see or discuss Thai history. Now most of the time I just shut up.

Yeah. I hear you. I was told stories of my relatives hiding when the Japanese bombed Thailand...and then you realize, "wait Thailand technically was an ally of Japan and the axis and wasn't bombed by Japan...." and then you realize you should just nod your head, keep your mouth shut and go "uh huh."

Sub, isnt it hard agreeing with something you know is untrue..and you are able to express yourself 100% in Thai ?. Maybe its better just to keep the peace at times but it does show the mentality here at times. I know and acknowledge that my country did bad things in Indonesia, no need to white wash stuff like that.

In the History Channel show they come right out and say that Thailand was given provinces in Malaya in exchange for their help and being an ally in 1941. I almost spit up my coke.

[geriatrickid]

History channel today, Rising sun over Malaya and The Fall of Singapore. How do you feel watching them?

I find such films uncomfortable. Part of my family endured the Japanese occupation in China and then the communist revolution and then the abandonment of obligations by the west. I have yet to be able to vsit the Bridge over the River Kwai area as I find it too painful thinking of the Commonwealth forces and Americans that were beaten and starved to death as slave labour in Thailand. There wasn't much hope for escaped POWs because the Thais were allied with the Japanese. It is one of the reasons why I don't care much for some of the old Thai families as I know how some of them made their money. There is a dark and nasty past that isn't discussed in Thailand. I don't want to know about some of the family hiotories for people on the Cambodia border because I know that many Thais profited from the Khmer Rouge initiated genocide, exploiting the refugeees and providing goods to the Khmer Rouge. Again, it's one of those things Thais do not wish to discuss. I can differentiate between the Vietnamese that took action against the Khmer and the Thais that indirectly aided and abetted Pol Pot.

[submaniac]

I watched the Rising Sun over Malaya last night in Thai with my Thai wife. She related a lot of what her mother had told her about the Japanese. Her father kept an M-16 in the house as he was a government employee on the Cambodian border during the problems there. We almost get in a fight every time we see or discuss Thai history. Now most of the time I just shut up.

Yeah. I hear you. I was told stories of my relatives hiding when the Japanese bombed Thailand...and then you realize, "wait Thailand technically was an ally of Japan and the axis and wasn't bombed by Japan...." and then you realize you should just nod your head, keep your mouth shut and go "uh huh."

Sub, isnt it hard agreeing with something you know is untrue..and you are able to express yourself 100% in Thai ?. Maybe its better just to keep the peace at times but it does show the mentality here at times. I know and acknowledge that my country did bad things in Indonesia, no need to white wash stuff like that.

In the History Channel show they come right out and say that Thailand was given provinces in Malaya in exchange for their help and being an ally in 1941. I almost spit up my coke.

Yeah seems like the history channel is the source of your problems. You should try Thai soaps....

[JurgenG]

I don't know if anybody ever had the same reaction.

I was watching a movie about the vietnam war and at one time there is a band of mad western soldiers coming in a village and they start shooting indiscriminately at old people, women and kids. I got suddenly very angry, it was my relatives they were shooting at. In a strange way, I was suddenly associating not with westerners but with asian people.

Did it happen to anybody else ?

History channel today, Rising sun over Malaya and The Fall of Singapore. How do you feel watching them?

A very interesting question.

While people here are usually very upset to se a young Asian wearing a nazi t-shirt, they usually don't mind when a Japanese prime minister visits the Yasukini shrine. And then they blame the Thais for their lack of knowledge of history

This is not how the thread was meant to go.

And how this thread was meant to go ?

[nickmanchester2]

the girl who i am seeing at the moment tells me her mum and dad are both dead and that she has 2 brothers, 1 in the mafia and the other one sells guns illegally... I can pick them eh? I didnt meet her in a bar either, I got chatting to her in public - I have met one of the brothers and sure enough, he had a gun on the bed next to him.

I am scared to end it with this girl now!

[Mosha]

I have no intention to criticize your reaction, but I wonder whether there is a lot more detail and local circumstances which need to be known and understood in cases like this.

On a different angle, I am a Vietnam veteran. Nowadays I am a visiting lecturer at universities in both the North and the South (I don't teach history or similar).

In the North many of my local faculty colleagues are quite old, they are nice people and they have gone out of their way to be helpful and to take care of me, many times I've enjoyed a meal and a local 33 beer with them. Most speak perfect English.

History has been raised a couple of times, but more in the context of the rough road the country has been through and now working towards democracy* albeit a bumpy road - and none of it raised by me, but usually several others in the group have politely and quickly said 'let's focus on the future'. (*with 99% expressing a desire for democracy.)

I would never ask any of them their personal history or what role (if any) they played during the conflict. But my guess is that at least a sprinkling, probably more, were soldiers / young officers in the red machine.

On the other hand I know very well that the western machine present in Vietnam in the conflict did some pretty shocking things, blatant and hideous acts breaking all tenants of human rights.

It's history and I'm quite happy to stay with the future.

Sadly a war that didn't need to be fought, if the VC position had been understood better. The US administration thought they were keeping the Chinese out. The VC just wanted an independent Vietnam.

[HeavyDrinker]

FiL and MiL fled to the UK with their daughters after Thammasart 1976 and were given scholarships at a UK uni to take their Doctorates.

2 uncle -in- laws were killed in the oppression of the 'uprising' and the aftermath.

It is fascinating and horrifying to hear them tell of those times. My wife still has vague memories of being awoken by her terrified mother in the dead of night and the subsequent flight to Malaysia which took 4 days.

[maprao]

All our "other halves" on Thaivisa are descendants of "hiso rich white chinese" I thought everyone new this!

[Mosha]

All our other halve on Thaivisa are descendants of "hiso rich white chinese" I thought everyone new this!

Not mine 100% Thai. However her dad did have a bicycle.

[Neeranam]

My wife's father was Thai soldier in the Vietnam war.

[Mosha]

My wife's father was Thai soldier in the Vietnam war.

Ex BIL was too. He has a medal that just sits in a drawer out of site. Yet his BS ones for being Kamnam he proudly didplays.