Your Bike Is My Bike, What Would You Have Done?

[Bluetongue]

Just for some more perspective. He is a pretty good kid, I think. Miles better than many others here, in my observation. I live in close contact with a large extended family, plus only a short way from a village with many more including many young males so I think I can safely say that. He earns pocket money by sweeping and mopping the house every day as well as washing dishes and other random tasks. This pays for his fuel, lunch, phone, haircuts and small items.

The point is about the behaviour. Mostly learned from other older boys like his brother through watching etc over the years. I'm just trying to have an influence over the behaviour as well and its not easy. I think in an area where many young males are idle and poor there is a built in reflex to defend the turf if you like of at least being able to jump on a motorbike and go somewhere, hence the unwillingness to change the behaviour. I remember what things were like when I was 16 so I understand that the view from there is somewhat different.

[robblok]

Unlike Miss Farmgirl my wife even tells me not to loan to her brothers (tools and my bike) She told me so before, I did loan it result bike that had a flat or no fuel and tools that were damaged. So she says she does not loan things easy just to people she can trust to take care of what is loaned.

Basically the same as i was brought up loaning out stuff is ok but not too much and not to everyone and make sure that that person understands he or she is responsible for damages.

So no not all Thai are borg you just have to find one that suits you. In general farm girls think different then ones raised in the city.

[impulse]

Do his friends reciprocate?

When I was growing up, we had neighbors who would gladly loan you their spare car, or let you stay in their vacation home if it was idle that week.

And we had neighbors who wouldn't loan a $0.50 screwdriver. Guess who didn't get invited to the neighborhood picnics (on picnic tables built by the neighborhood guys with tools they brought to the party)?

In general, it all worked out and everyone benefited. We'd loan out our chain saw and borrow someone else's tiller. Some benefited more than others, but nobody was put out. Of course, an unspoken part of the deal was to return the borrowed stuff clean, full of gas and in good shape.

I have no advice, but to suggest ignoring advice from folks that don't know the entire situation. You may have married into a neighborhood tradition that's been going on for generations. And you probably want to get invited to the picnics. (For the less literate and more literal, the picnics are also a metaphor for neighbors having each others backs)

Edited February 17, 2013 by impulse

[robblok]

Do his friends reciprocate?

When I was growing up, we had neighbors who would gladly loan you their spare car, or let you stay in their vacation home if it was idle that week.

And we had neighbors who wouldn't loan a $0.50 screwdriver. Guess who didn't get invited to the neighborhood picnics (on picnic tables built by the neighborhood guys with tools they brought to the party)?

In general, it all worked out and everyone benefited. We'd loan out our chain saw and borrow someone else's tiller. Some benefited more than others, but nobody was put out. Of course, an unspoken part of the deal was to return the borrowed stuff clean, full of gas and in good shape.

I have no advice, but to suggest ignoring advice from folks that don't know the entire situation.

Yes but these friends don't seem to take care of it. Loaning is ok between people you can trust and take care and of course reciprocate. Here that is not the case. (at least the taking care part)

[evadgib]

Amazing how no one recalls being anywhere near a communial bike when it was scratched/bent/punctured ...or when the reserve tank was activated!

[canuckamuck]

It is good to have your own stuff, let them trash their own.

[prestburypark]

Put your foot down and demand they respect your wishes, who pays the piper...we do not loan money, bikes, cars but we help with real needs, lifts to doctors and hospitals, transport for work and school.

Why ? A few years ago we loaned a new Airblade to a friends daughter who needed it for getting to work, genuine reason and we were both in the UK for a few months.

It was used to tear around Pattaya, pose on, boyfriends used it and unknown to them, a close family member was in the group who used it. He did not realise it was our bike until we got back.

There were 3000kms on it and it was battered about. Complete contempt for the kindness we showed to a "struggling" girl. If they have not got a cent invested in the machine it will be ridden like they stole it, hell, of course it will.

[WonnabeBiker]

While I don't understand Thai culture (strangers sitting on one's motorcycle? Try that in downtown L.A.

if you want to test the nearest hospital's Emergency facilities)

But this is not sharing among family members. This is handing out of goodies to anyone - and that's being wildly abused.

(I heard stories of folks packing what's on the table and taking it home at a party, too - before every one has had the chance to eat).

Moreover, I witnessed a stranger come by, then grab my large last Coke Zero bottle and walk out.

• Fuel is expensive for a teenager.
  
• The bikes are well built and should last with proper care & maintenance
  
• The value of things needs to be learned by this 16 year old guy. In addition, he needs to learn that he cannot buy friends!
  

Bikes last many years with normal use, just getting the oil changed & routine service done (air filter cleaned, new spark plug, carb cleaning & adjustment).

Some Honda Dreams have lasted xxx thousand km on their first engine!

It's time to put a stop to this nonsense. You are not doing the teenager a service by keeping up this strange masochistic pattern.

What next? Will he starve himself while giving away his lunch money?

(We have a spoilt brat in the family. Now 20, playing truant in M5 where all it takes to pass would be to show up.

She has taken to selling stuff from the house whenever she needs money for drugs or whatever - we

think she is hooked on chrystal meth which is as bad as it gets). That girl was given her own apartment and money.

Guess what? Some biker gang moved in and she was their groupie.

There is more to it than the cost of maintaining, repairing and replacing one or more motorcycles.

What kind of person do you want your stepson to be?!?

There is so much stupidity out there! Cold engines getting redlined. And now he is riding an unsafe bike?

Let him take the bus - and win the possibly ensuing argument with your wife. it's for the best and they will learn to respect you more.

[dave111223]

Why don't you start driving him to school, so that he no longer needs the bike?

[WonnabeBiker]

I not understand everything you write but

sometimes one person buy but the whole family use

I know this crazy thinking for you

sorry but this our way, our thinking

The whole family shares things, not crazy thinking for me. I have used their motorbikes and cars many times for small trips. But this other kid is completely unknown to me

Yes, but this boy lets friends who are not family use & abuse his motorcycle.

But even if it was a family member who is abusing a bike paid for by someone else -

this cannot be tolerated for much longer!

In the West, there was a Russian student I shared a flat with. Every morning, the toilet seat was sprinkled with urine.

I just cleaned up after him xxx times. But now, I would address the embarrassing issue and he might learn something...

Edited February 17, 2013 by metisdead
: Font

[loong]

Do his friends reciprocate?

When I was growing up, we had neighbors who would gladly loan you their spare car, or let you stay in their vacation home if it was idle that week.

And we had neighbors who wouldn't loan a $0.50 screwdriver. Guess who didn't get invited to the neighborhood picnics (on picnic tables built by the neighborhood guys with tools they brought to the party)?

In general, it all worked out and everyone benefited. We'd loan out our chain saw and borrow someone else's tiller. Some benefited more than others, but nobody was put out. Of course, an unspoken part of the deal was to return the borrowed stuff clean, full of gas and in good shape.

I have no advice, but to suggest ignoring advice from folks that don't know the entire situation. You may have married into a neighborhood tradition that's been going on for generations. And you probably want to get invited to the picnics. (For the less literate and more literal, the picnics are also a metaphor for neighbors having each others backs)

"but nobody was put out. Of course, an unspoken part of the deal was to return the borrowed stuff clean, full of gas and in good shape."

And that's the difference.

I find it really annoying that so many people will prey on the kindness of others, borrow things and treat them with no respect whatsoever.

Why should people expect to be able to have use of Your motorbike and also expect you to pay for the fuel that they use?

Most people that I know with motorbikes keep the absolute minimum in the fuel tank . They know that if they fill it up, others will borrow the bike and the thought of putting in fuel wouldn't even occur to the borrower.

[marstons]

I not understand everything you write but

sometimes one person buy but the whole family use

I know this crazy thinking for you

sorry but this our way, our thinking

This is not the family doing the damage Miss Farm Girl, and no its not crazy thinking as we farangs share our possession's with our family as well.

As an extra your grammer, punctuation and spelling as a non native English speaker is commendable and better than most native born English people.

Edited February 17, 2013 by marstons

[Briggsy]

As I have said on my other threads, "Cut the income stream."

[Jayroo]

I not understand everything you write but

sometimes one person buy but the whole family use

I know this crazy thinking for you

sorry but this our way, our thinking

But they are NOT part of the family, he is upset about his FRIENDS riding it, they are not his or his son's family, so it is WRONG!

[SparklingCascades]

I not understand everything you write but

sometimes one person buy but the whole family use

I know this crazy thinking for you

sorry but this our way, our thinking

Me know when one person buy and full family use. Me not understand when one person buy and full town use.

[kevvy]

Why is a 26 year old son living in your house? Kick him out I say, and your problems are over.

Yeah being the tough guy has been tried, it doesn't really work either, once again more problems

who wears the pants in your family mate it wouldnt happen in Aus.

[Bluetongue]

Why don't you start driving him to school, so that he no longer needs the bike?

Well I've thought about that too, if it comes to it I would do it but it would not be convenient. Look I dont mind him going to a friends place or hanging out somewhere after school one or two days a week, on about 3 days he comes straight home. I want to in concert with the missus teach him the concept that he can say no. Because that is what all this comes down to, in many cases that I have seen Thais are unwilling to say no. The other thing seriously, is they have ants in their pants, the mere fact that a motorcycle is sitting there with a key in it is sufficient to manufacture an excuse to go somewhere, I see it all the time. This kid didn't buy any shoes. I've been waiting since Friday to see if any thing was raised and nothing has been so I will have to .

[TommoPhysicist]

Why is a 26 year old son living in your house? Kick him out I say, and your problems are over.

Yeah being the tough guy has been tried, it doesn't really work either, once again more problems

I would dump the woman, and find a new one without such unruly baggage.

It's not about being a tough guy, it's about having a nice life.

But some guys are happy to be doormats, up to you.

Edited February 17, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[Bluetongue]

Why is a 26 year old son living in your house? Kick him out I say, and your problems are over.

Yeah being the tough guy has been tried, it doesn't really work either, once again more problems

who wears the pants in your family mate it wouldnt happen in Aus.

I have heard a lot of stories about how older and older children are staying with their parents in Australia because of housing affordability and other social issues. They call them kippers (kids in parents pockets eroding retirement savings) or boomerang kids (they go but come back) Kippers does not apply as I have not yet retired, but boomerang does. This post was in any case not about him, regardless I think that your straight up and down assessment of what wouldn't happen in Australia is very macho of you, and back in Aus I would be standing in the pub agreeing with you, but not at issue here.

[David48]

Hi there Bluetongue ... we know each other fairly well.

Firstly, thanks for opening up and sharing your dilemma, it's a difficult problem without an easy solution.

Before I stayed a long time in an extended Thai family, I might have commented similarly to many of those posters above.

But time spent in a large Thai family does change ones perspective and this brings with it new challenges.

We had a small issue with the gf's Aunts grandson. They have almost naught in physical possessions and the 5 year old doesn't own a bike. The youngest Farm child had outgrown hers ... so the bike was lent to this young boy.

Seen here as the last child

One time I saw him treating the bike with disrespect. Mustering my best Thai (which amounts to about 10 words!), I had a shot at him there and there. As soon as the gf was in contact, we went to his homes and pulled him aside. He's still laughing and smiling ... but not for long.

He lost the privilege rights to the bike for a day and the tears would have filled a dam. Gf, on seeing this wanted to capitulate and make it an hour loss. Nope ... a day it was.

He did learn his lesson, bike was well treated after that.

Not saying that this will work in your circumstances but maybe something along the lines of start by getting him to clean the bike ... spit and polish and the like. Make him have a 'feeling' for the bike, some invested effort.

I do understand your situation fairly well and wish you good luck solving the issue.

.

[rgs2001uk]

Why is a 26 year old son living in your house? Kick him out I say, and your problems are over.

Yeah being the tough guy has been tried, it doesn't really work either, once again more problems

I would dump the woman, and find a new one without such unruly baggage.

It's not about being a tough guy, it's about having a nice life.

But some guys are happy to be doormats, up to you.

For the life of me I will never understand why someone would take on a woman and the baggage she brings with her, especially boys.

Plenty of decent single women out there that dont have this baggage in tow, seek and ye shall find.

Do you think a Thai man would put up with this shit?

Edited February 17, 2013 by rgs2001uk

[Beetlejuice]

Bluetongue, it`s up to you. Are you a man or a mouse?

The solution is simple, only requires one word: NO!

Problem solved.

[mackes]

With people who don't have much resources it's as easy as that, they share everything there are to share.

Within the family, between friends, within the village. All depending on the size of the community.

If you come and add resources to such group, don't expect people to change behavior immediately. You have

to be crystal clear what rules do apply on your possessions or on your gifts. Crystal clear, not the Thai way but

the western way where you enforce the rules and apply penalties on fouls. Your decision and it will be impopular!

[473geo]

Recently I watched the joint effort from in village to create a wedding feast, party, entertainment etc. The utensils for cooking and eating were supplied from the 'village' stock set aside for such occasion, the tents and tables were delivered from the local temple, most families in the village had one or more members involved in preparing the food, the local musicians played all day for a very small payment..........this was a great wedding and in those few days a good time was enjoyed by all, a real sense of a community pulling together.........in the grand scheme of things a 30k motorsi being utilised by others does not even warrant comment......unless you wish to be an island......then good luck!.....just remember the thinking in Thailand......do good and good comes to you, it's called belief in karma.........I guess you either believe and chill, or manufacture your own version

Edited February 17, 2013 by 473geo

[impulse]

I'd gladly leave my keys in my scooter and wave at anyone driving by on it if that were my contribution to a community where I could leave my keys in my scooter (or pickup) and know it would come back after "whoever" used it.

There's a bigger picture here being missed in a lot of this advice about manning up and putting feet down....

Great posts mackes and 473geo!

Edited February 17, 2013 by impulse

[rattler]

I not understand everything you write but

sometimes one person buy but the whole family use

I know this crazy thinking for you

sorry but this our way, our thinking

In my country in the West, vehicles are shared among family members. But it is stressed how the vehicle is cared for.

But letting any non-family member, especially random kids use and abuse it? Unheard of in my lifetime.

If I had a kid who was abusing any vehicle I paid for, he'd lose his privilege. If I bought him a vehicle and he and or his friends abused it, then when it quit running it would just sit, broken. I wouldn't fix it. Fixing it would be his responsibility, including earning the money for it. I'll bet that then he wouldn't let random people tear it up.

How else are kids to learn?

They dont in Thailand and this lets them continue doing it indefinitely.

agreed so what would you do?

Its not what I would do, but I wouldnt have allowed any sharing to start with, share in the family maybe ok and depends who bought the thing? , but if i had financed it I would make it very clear any abuse and Id sell it or even give it away.

But at the back of my mind this is NOT a child, he's 26..............sorry take that back, forgot we are in Thailand.

I like this " one person buy the whole family use" when it breaks do the whole family pay to fix it too????

Edited February 17, 2013 by rattler

[TommoPhysicist]

I like this " one person buy the whole family use" when it breaks do the whole family pay to fix it too????

Foreigner pay ......... obviously.

(If foreigner wasn't here, we wouldn't have bike, therefore we wouldn't need the repair)

[Pormax]

I agree it isa matter of putting your foot down.

My 15 year old neice (who lives with us) needs a motorbike to go to the new school 25kms away at the start of the new school year. So yesterday we bought a new honda, in my wife's name (as no Thai I believe can own a vehicle until 21or 25 years old).

First though I set out the rules.

1. She has to go and get her licence.

2. If she goes outside the village she must always wear a hemut.

3. Nobody but direct family can use it.

4. It must be left at our house, Not other family's houses when she is not using it.

5. It is her responsibility to keep it clean.

Then she was told that breaking of any of the first 4 rules will mean no motorbike, other than for going to and returning from school, for a month. Second offence 2 months.

Now I await the outcome. hopefully what I have said will get through.

I think it will, because she came home last week saying a friend of hers was very scared to go home as another friend borrowed her motorbike and had an accident, where the bike was seriously damaged and could not be driven home.

[dave111223]

Why don't you start driving him to school, so that he no longer needs the bike?

Well I've thought about that too, if it comes to it I would do it but it would not be convenient. Look I dont mind him going to a friends place or hanging out somewhere after school one or two days a week, on about 3 days he comes straight home. I want to in concert with the missus teach him the concept that he can say no. Because that is what all this comes down to, in many cases that I have seen Thais are unwilling to say no. The other thing seriously, is they have ants in their pants, the mere fact that a motorcycle is sitting there with a key in it is sufficient to manufacture an excuse to go somewhere, I see it all the time. This kid didn't buy any shoes. I've been waiting since Friday to see if any thing was raised and nothing has been so I will have to .

It just seems to me that you are looking for options that require you to not actually have to put any time in? I asked my wife if she'd let out son drive a motorbike to school when he's 16...she just about sh*t herself.

School runs are not convenient; being a parent is not convenient...but if you want to be a good dad you got to put in the time. Otherwise may as well just ignore these issues for the next 2 years and then show him the door at 18, that would be convenient.

Think you need to decide what exactly your role is. If you don't really want much to do with the kids, then a motorbike is a small price to pay for peace and quiet at home.

[scorecard]

My Thai son came home from university and told me that during that day a senior girl student, same course, but next year up, who he never seen / met before appraoched him and said she needed to borrow his car for a 4 or 5 day upcountry trip.

My son is always polite but is not an easy push over. He shared:-

- You are assuming I have a car, which is not true. (No doubt assumed because his first name is very Thai and his family name is avery typical farang name, and at university his home lecturer always called his by his farang family name as a nick name.)

- OK well, I need to borrow your fathers car.

- Do you have a licence? No, but that's not important.

- I've never seen you before, you really expect that I would suggest to my father he should give the family car to a stranger for 5 days.

- You have no respect for your senior.

Son walked away with his friends giving the girl some less than positive comments.