Eco-Tourism In The Rai

[Nonja]

Seeking eco-tourism accommodations in the Rai:

I am writing an article on eco-tourism in CR Province and I’m looking for places I can recommend. They need to be small and in areas of natural beauty or interest. Homestays are fine, although most people prefer some privacy. The place you nominate might be in existence already, or might potentially be built. Small is good.

There is much confusion as to what eco-tourism is, so I better sort that out before we go any further. Firstly, let me say what eco-tourism is not. It is not about building a massive resort complex in a pristine environment. It is not about exploiting natural attractions and local people for the financial benefit of others. Nor does it involve damaging the environment in any way. These are not my rules: that is the official definition of eco-tourism, as understood outside of Thailand. In Thailand it’s another matter, but many eco-tourists come from overseas. I’m sticking with the overseas definition for this article. And I’m looking for excellence.

So, what are the principles of eco-tourism?

Firstly, it should be low impact.

The following aspects are emphasised:

Conservation of the environment

Demonstrating the value of the environment as an on-going
resource

Education of the tourist regarding the environment and
different cultures

To directly benefit the economic development of local
communities

To foster respect for different cultures

The International Ecotourism Society (TIES) defines eco-tourism as responsible travel to natural areas which conserves the environment and improves the well-being of local people.

If you want to have a look at what the BKK NGO REST does, it will give you a good idea of the official philosophy of responsible eco-tourism,
go to: http://mangroveactionproject.org/issues/tourism/community-based-tourism-cbt/thailand

My question is, can you recommend small, sustainable places to stay? I have trawled the web thoroughly (as an incoming overseas tourist would do) and I can’t find very much. Yes, I am aware of one of the major players, but recent reviews indicate there may be some problems there at the moment. A small Lahu place @ Tumbol Doi Hung gets excellent reviews (with two caveats), and I came across another near Phu Chi Fa but I’ve lost my reference for the latter.

So, I am looking for small or potential eco-tourism places to stay within Chiang Rai Province, please. And if you have one, or plan to have one, I’m happy to visit and provide feedback, if requested.

Thank you.

[toybits]

Are you surprised nobody has replied to your post? That is because very few people know the definition of eco-tourism. Many use the prefix "Eco" as a marketing tool. Just like they use "Green" or "Sustainable" or "Community-based". Many organizations that use these words really do not understand the essence of the word they are using. It's kind of sad really...

[Nonja]

That's fine: it proves my point, really. Pity.

[sceadugenga]

I think you described eco-tourism fairly well in your post and the lack of replies have more to do with the time of posting.

Unfortunately commercial tourism is much more appealing to many Thais, tourist income, particularly in community type attractions soon bring the things that spoil the original attraction for many.

My advice is to hire transport and get off the beaten track, enjoy the many small villages and temples and find patches of genuinely untouched countryside.

[villagefarang]

As toybits suggests, no surprise. Not sure I would label it a pity. You have simply taken an obscure and highly adulterated concept and addressed your question to a small sub forum, with interests which lie elsewhere.

[sunholidaysun1]

Nonja.

This maybe of help to you and the only place I can think of of the top of my head at the moment .

http://www.akhahill.com/

[harrry]

Nonja.

This maybe of help to you and the only place I can think of of the top of my head at the moment .

http://www.akhahill.com/

There are those who believe the conversion of the Akha to Chritianity and using them as entertainment does not count as real eco tourism

[toybits]

I have heard a lot about that Akha place and some of them were not good comments at all. I would not recommend that place either.

[aliep]

I know of only one place. It is currently a 10,000ft2 private house built almost completely in glass by a billionaire as a gift to a poor Hill Tribe orphan girl on the summit of it's own mountain in the National Park on 28 rai of land leased from the Forestry Department. Staying there is currently invitation only (Johnny Depp spent the week before Xmas there) but I believe it will change status to the most exclusive and most luxurious, small, country club, sometime in the next 5-10 years for no more than 10 guests at a time with food provided by a Michelin starred chef. Few people are fortunate to have seen it, and even fewer to have stayed there. It is stunning to put it mildly and was built with conservation in mind. If you want to see it, PM me and I'll put you in touch, but they won't want you to identify exactly where it is or what it is called.

[villagefarang]

That waterfall at Tat Khwan is an easy 18km mountain bike ride from my home. Fortunately I have not encountered any ATVs on my visits as I approach from a different direction, I guess.

[Ebenezer]

I have visited a homestay in the mountain area just before Doi Maesalong where the owner (Surapol) seems to have made an attempt at a number of good objectives e.g. he has been encouraging local people to plant trees and he has supported local tribal people. He won a Thai tourism award in 2007 for community involvement and sustainable tourism. He has a good web site <removed> where you can judge for yourself.

Edited February 24, 2013 by onthedarkside
promotion link removed

[aliep]

I have visited a homestay in the mountain area just before Doi Maesalong where the owner (Surapol) seems to have made an attempt at a number of good objectives e.g. he has been encouraging local people to plant trees and he has supported local tribal people. He won a Thai tourism award in 2007 for community involvement and sustainable tourism. He has a good web site <removed> where you can judge for yourself.

I have seen Maesalong Homestay and I have to agree. He is doing good work. The guy who built the place at Chiang Rai ATV seems to be doing good work too. According to some of the reviews on tripadvisor he seems to be improving the lives of a poor hill tribe village and educating tourists in Hill Tribe life and conservation. We should be championing them and not pillorying them, at the very least, we should try something before we knock it. Maybe they are electric and solar powered? Doubt it though!

Those who are knocking them - what have you done as amazing as giving a poor hill tribe orphan a beautiful house and creating a business to give her financial independence? This guy gets 3 cheers from me!

[sunholidaysun1]

I repsect someone that has visited here , found a child (many all over the country are in need ) who is need of adoption and taken the step to adopt . Most who adopt I would think would remove that child from the poverty and take them to the west for all the benifits the west has to offer . Building her a palacial glass resort for the wealthy in beautiful government owned land , surrounded by people in severe poverty to me is rather crude.

Eco tourism ? My ***. This is exactly what it is meant to be , a destination for those with the money to pay for an out of the way retreat .

Paying for school uniforms and the travel for the village kids to attend school is hardly alot considering the millions of Baht spent on the resort . If someone was really keen to help , has millions of dollars to do something positve and make a difference , then maybe building proper housing for the villagers in need, to live in, would be more appropriate .

It just shows that Money talks to allow people who have, to do what they want if they pay enough and keep those in authority here sweet . Eventually maybe someone will take a stand about building any resort in government parkland and remove them .

I am all in favour of eco tourism but destroying the fauna in an area of natural beauty to me is very hypocritical .

[scorpio1945]

This topic has gotten totally out of hand.

[harrry]

The point is that there are few if any Eco tourism places meeting even the limited definitions above. There may be a few homestays that come close but many of these are run by misionary organisations causing in my view ireparable ham to the hill tribe people and cultures they live amongst thus failing the test.

As the OP asked for places meeting a certain definition it is in no way off topic to point out how suggest places fail to meet these conditions.

[pomchop]

I know of only one place. It is currently a 10,000ft2 private house built almost completely in glass by a billionaire as a gift to a poor Hill Tribe orphan girl on the summit of it's own mountain in the National Park on 28 rai of land leased from the Forestry Department. Staying there is currently invitation only (Johnny Depp spent the week before Xmas there) but I believe it will change status to the most exclusive and most luxurious, small, country club, sometime in the next 5-10 years for no more than 10 guests at a time with food provided by a Michelin starred chef. Few people are fortunate to have seen it, and even fewer to have stayed there. It is stunning to put it mildly and was built with conservation in mind. If you want to see it, PM me and I'll put you in touch, but they won't want you to identify exactly where it is or what it is called.

Go back to the OP who starts off by saying she wants Eco Tourism accommodations and TWICE mentions that SMALL IS GOOD in the first paragraph...then goes on to say that

" It is not about exploiting natural attractions and local people for the financial benefit of others. Nor does it involve damaging the environment in any way.

So next we have a poster recommending a 10 thousand square foot place made of glass and featuring an infinity pool that hosts celebrities that fly in by helicopters?...in addition the resort/palace promotes ATV rides that no doubt rip up fauna as well as cause noise pollution, all so some well heeled tourists can get their kicks....hardly an eco place or business under most ANY definition.....and per the website the owner seems anxious to expand the ATV's to others saying..."" we are the exclusive manufacturer agent in Thailand, we have a number of new vehicles always in stock for purchase from 35,000.- (list price 45,000.- up, dealer opportunities available)

So if i have indeed got the facts straight I believe that is the reason the responses have been fairly strong against the place. The billionaire may well be doing well but he may also be like the missionairies who came to Hawaii to do good ....and as the story goes they ended up doing very very well indeed.

To say that this place is an eco resort or that it's ATV promotion is environmentally friendly is a very very big stretch. I do not know the man that built this place but if he should read this I would ask that he might want to reconsider where this ATV thing could well lead in a few years time? Just imagine dozens of companies running similar tours up and down and all around the mountains, national parks, waterfalls, and places that were once upon a time serene peaceful places. Imagine remote hill tribe villages becoming against their will tourist attractions for a bunch of day tripping ATV tourists?? I do not view that as a positive no matter how well intentioned he may be or how many hilltribe kids he trys to support. How about using all that money to create some environmentally friendly ways to earn money?? Or if indeed he has billions just GIVE the money away to send a few hundred kids off to school to learn a way to make a living etc? And just so it is clear YES i do help, in my own small way, a lot of dirt poor kids by teaching english for free and also give some money to them for scholarships.

[villagefarang]

I am presently halfway through an eco-friendly mountain bike ride and having stopped for a little refreshment I thought I might catch up on this topic. I am afraid I disagree with those who say this topic is out of control. I find this a valuable and timely subject for conversation. Hopefully there will be more to read when I get home.

[pomchop]

The OP posted that he wanted the information on Eco-tourism for an article so people can come. I fear that this kind of thing ends up with the Lonely Planet effect. As most people on this forum know when tourists started using Tony Wheeler's books a place when first listed may be good but once it is listed more people frequent it and it becomes spoiled. I fear this has even more impact on low scale Eco-tourism which I take to mean a place using local shops and fcilities where possible and providing rooms and food of an acceptible standard without dominating or changing the community more than a few extra people living there would. There are probably still many of these places around but the best way to find them remains low key word of mouth.

Many may remember when for example on the whole of MaeNahm beeach on Koh Samui there was one resort. Pharlarn Inn owned by a Mr Moon. Not quite but nearly Eco Tourism. After a few years another opened a few hundred metres away and we all went with Mr Moon to visit them and eat and give them luck. Now MaeNam has grown to many resorts and is defininetly not Ecotourism though it may be a pleasant holiday destination. Better or worse I do not know but I do know with use things grow and multiply.

And I have been around long enough to remember Patong beach in Phuket before someone had the brilliant idea of bringing in a few jet skis...which of course turned what was once a beautiful peaceful beach into a roaring hell of jet skis spewing oil/gas into the ocean, hitting and terrorizing swimmers and ultimately taken over by a jet ski mafia screwing the tourists and beating those who dare to challenge their "business model" half to death.. .....and now seems no matter how they try or how many complaints they can't get the genie back in the bottle......

Edited February 25, 2013 by pomchop

[villagefarang]

One thing we have clearly put to rest is that our membership is somehow not knowledgeable on the subject of “eco-tourism” and its sometimes questionable effects here in Chiang Rai. Actually we seem to be knowledgeable to the point that we are skeptical of unproven claims and have sensible questions and opinions based on experience.

Most of the remaining members of this forum are more than capable of having an intelligent conversation and even disagreeing. There is, unfortunately, always someone who will try to point fingers and try to make it a personal dick swinging contest. Most of those people have gone somewhere else, to talk about cheese and pat themselves on the back, but still someone always leaves the playbook at home.

Things are changing in the Rai at a remarkable rate and though we may have little power to influence the direction or pace, keeping current may help us to navigate in this new world that we find unfolding on our doorstep. This may not be what the OP intended for this topic, but I think it has been a valuable discussion.

[Nonja]

As the original poster, I would like to thank you all for your comments. I do appreciate the time and trouble you have taken to discuss the concept of eco-tourism. It is obviously a problematic concept. I actually do not have a brief to promote it: I phrased my introduction badly. I was asked by some concerned people if reputable places existed and obviously, based on your comments, there is some concern as to whether in fact they do exist, or should be allowed to exist.

I was also interested to learn that the cutting of bamboo rafts for tourists has destroyed part of the bird habitat along the Kok river and several species are in danger. Additionally, I was informed the other day that the elephants at Ruammit Village are seriously affected by land-development and are running out of food. (No, I wasn't told this by a villager. I was told this by an unconcerned Thai land-developer.)

I guess there's nothing we can do. But thank you all for your contributions.

[villagefarang]

Nonja
Thanks for getting back to us and giving a little more insight into your own interest in the subject. We do love followup on this forum and it is greatly appreciated.

[onthedarkside]

It's unfortunate that this seemingly innocuous topic has resulted in so much squabbling. Many posts removed.

[aliep]

I wonder, does it matter if it's "well heeled celebrities" or "backpackers" who go to an Eco-friendly resort? Surely the type of guest doesn't affect whether or not it's eco-friendly, only the investment made initially and the likely subsequent profit. I would like to know where this profit is intended to go if and when it does become a resort, though I suspect I already know.

I read pomchop's views on this place and what is being done and he is right to reach that kind of opinion from a position of not knowing the facts and you can easily verify them by driving to the village. I have been there and done some more research today and here are some facts, and I apologise for getting some of them wrong earlier. The village is 5km off the main highway. There is a new concrete road being constructed to the village replacing the old mud/gravel track. There is only a track to this glass house on top of a mountain, he won't put his road in before the village road is finished (if ever he says) and he, not the villagers is the one who can't get out when it rains, even in his 4x4. The mountain is in the village boundary, the house was built by the local Tambon but paid for by him, it's less than 600m from the village centre, it's not in the national forest. The poor farmers used to collect their crops on old motorbikes, now they collect them in new pickup trucks on widened/improved tracks to their fields, there is a lot of construction going on with bathrooms being built for the existing houses so they don't have to "go" outside. The schoolkids either go to the nearest government school at Mae Chan 40km away and have to board coming home twice a year or some of them now go to school in Chiang Rai on a daily basis. Personally, I think it's wonderful that their parents can see them every evening and weekend. The kids have new laptops, free internet and can swim whenever they want in his daughters swimming pool. This philanthropist might be challenging an established culture, or he might be improving things as best he knows how. I don't say it's all good and I am sure he is far from perfect, but I think his heart is in the right place, and the villagers, Tambon and local Forestry department do adore this guy, and it's their opinion that counts, not ours. VF - please ask the Forestry department at Tat Khwan waterfall, they would love to give you their opinion too, they have now been given money to improve the waterfall. This man may have wealth, but he has had a life of personal tragedy, and VF is right to recognise he is compensating for it. From what I know and have read on tripadvisor, the village was dying out and people say he wants to give new opportunities to the youngsters so they don't drift away to the metropolis. I can't see how farming alone will keep them there, so I think he has an unenviable task and is highly likely to be pilloried. There are 32 reviews on tripadvisor for his first business, an ATV business, and they are all 5 star. This alone is exceptional feedback from people who truly know the facts and probably why it has displaced the White Temple as the number 1 tripadvisor attraction in the Rai. It's also a partner of Le Meridien, a place I hold in high esteem and I am sure they did their homework on their appalrently repeated site visits.

In talking privately with Nonja, she tells me she has accepted an invitation to this place we are all so divided over. Perhaps she would like to report on her visit afterwards and tell us whether it is or isn't eco-friendly? and whether this guy should be commended or condemned?

As an aside, how about the Four Seasons Tented Camp at Chiang Sean as an eco-friendly tourist resort? Tent's are good, always fancied living in a ptenthouse.

[onthedarkside]

It's unfortunate that this seemingly innocuous topic has resulted in so much squabbling. Many posts removed.

And all the latest off topic posts also removed.

[onthedarkside]

And more posts removed. If you wish to communicate by PM then fine. But all off topic posts are being removed.

[pomchop]

I wonder, does it matter if it's "well heeled celebrities" or "backpackers" who go to an Eco-friendly resort? Surely the type of guest doesn't affect whether or not it's eco-friendly, only the investment made initially and the likely subsequent profit. I would like to know where this profit is intended to go if and when it does become a resort, though I suspect I already know.

I read pomchop's views on this place and what is being done and he is right to reach that kind of opinion from a position of not knowing the facts and you can easily verify them by driving to the village. I have been there and done some more research today and here are some facts, and I apologise for getting some of them wrong earlier. The village is 5km off the main highway. There is a new concrete road being constructed to the village replacing the old mud/gravel track. There is only a track to this glass house on top of a mountain, he won't put his road in before the village road is finished (if ever he says) and he, not the villagers is the one who can't get out when it rains, even in his 4x4. The mountain is in the village boundary, the house was built by the local Tambon but paid for by him, it's less than 600m from the village centre, it's not in the national forest. The poor farmers used to collect their crops on old motorbikes, now they collect them in new pickup trucks on widened/improved tracks to their fields, there is a lot of construction going on with bathrooms being built for the existing houses so they don't have to "go" outside. The schoolkids either go to the nearest government school at Mae Chan 40km away and have to board coming home twice a year or some of them now go to school in Chiang Rai on a daily basis. Personally, I think it's wonderful that their parents can see them every evening and weekend. The kids have new laptops, free internet and can swim whenever they want in his daughters swimming pool. This philanthropist might be challenging an established culture, or he might be improving things as best he knows how. I don't say it's all good and I am sure he is far from perfect, but I think his heart is in the right place, and the villagers, Tambon and local Forestry department do adore this guy, and it's their opinion that counts, not ours. VF - please ask the Forestry department at Tat Khwan waterfall, they would love to give you their opinion too, they have now been given money to improve the waterfall. This man may have wealth, but he has had a life of personal tragedy, and VF is right to recognise he is compensating for it. From what I know and have read on tripadvisor, the village was dying out and people say he wants to give new opportunities to the youngsters so they don't drift away to the metropolis. I can't see how farming alone will keep them there, so I think he has an unenviable task and is highly likely to be pilloried. There are 32 reviews on tripadvisor for his first business, an ATV business, and they are all 5 star. This alone is exceptional feedback from people who truly know the facts and probably why it has displaced the White Temple as the number 1 tripadvisor attraction in the Rai. It's also a partner of Le Meridien, a place I hold in high esteem and I am sure they did their homework on their appalrently repeated site visits.

In talking privately with Nonja, she tells me she has accepted an invitation to this place we are all so divided over. Perhaps she would like to report on her visit afterwards and tell us whether it is or isn't eco-friendly? and whether this guy should be commended or condemned?

As an aside, how about the Four Seasons Tented Camp at Chiang Sean as an eco-friendly tourist resort? Tent's are good, always fancied living in a ptenthouse.

First let me say good for you to go up and check it out. And I am happy to hear that the benefactors heart is in the right place....and GOOD to try and help the locals.

However:

1. Why anyone would think that this resort should be promoted in anyway as eco resort is most certainly in direct contrast to the definiiton that the OP laid out. If the resort is a beautiful place with specatcular views and great service what is wrong with just calling it that? Eco friendly with ATV's and Helicopters? I am not sure that many would agree with that monicker.

2. My and some others concern, and i believe a very valid one, is the ATV business model which obviously the benefactor is heavily involved with as a manufactures rep and offering to sell them to any and all takers. ATVs maybe are many many things but running them off road just goes against the entire eco theme of not damaging the environment. I have personally seen the chaos and environmental damage that too many ATV's have caused in some areas of the USA and it is not a pretty sight.

3. I have little doubt that a Thai national forest person or the villagers would say good things about most anyone who provides them with nice donations. I do not know the volume of business or how many ATV tours are being run through national forest or to the waterfalls but there sure seem to be a LOT of them pictured on the website.. I don't know how much time is spent off road but per the website apparently that is part of the thrill. I don't even know the price of the ATV tour as it seems to mysteriously not be listed on the website making me believe it is quite high. I see the chiang mai version goes for about 3000 baht per couple up to about 6000 baht + per couple which means it takes only about 10-15 couples or less to pay off one of the cheaper ATV's offered for sale at around 35,000 baht. . That is a lot of money, a quick payoff and a BIG incentive for other people to enter and try and expand this ATV tour model to much larger scales. The CM version claims 70% of their tour is off road and through RAIN FORESTS

4. As I stated i do COMMEND this benefactor for trying to help and make a difference. But again I would ask if he has truly considered the longer term impact that the ATV tours and the active promotion and sales of more ATV's may have across Thailand? Perhaps as a friend of his you might share some suggestions?

I would bet that the first jet skis that appeared in Phuket and Pattaya were thought to be a minor nuisance to many...but then as they made big profits of course more and more and more of them appeared....and then along with that came a jetski mafia who would do most anything to protect the cash flowing in to them including beatings and threats to anyone who dares to challenge them.

5. Are there not other ways to help the village people?

A visit to doi chan coffee is perhaps a good example. The Thai/Chinese man (whose name escapes me) who set that up purchased the coffee plants and brought in people to teach the hill tribe people in the area to grow and process and sell the coffee with all the money going into a sort of co-op. Doi chan coffee is now sold all over the world and the living conditions and incomes of the hill people etc have improved considerably. Growing and processing coffee seems to me to be an eco friendly way to help people learn to have a high margin product that is in demand all over the world. And the people he trained now train their children who seem to be doing it even better than their parents. I don't claim to be a doi chan expert but i did visit and meet the benefactor here and he is an impressive man who seems to be helping out in a very positive way.

What if instead of ATV tours he ran horse back or donkey back rides through the hills? Wouldn't that also provide income and create jobs and opportunities? What's wrong with basic off road mountain bikes powered by leg muscles?

What if they created a kayak tour down the mae kok or other waterways. Everyday several dozen tourists board boats in tha ton or Chiang Rai and ROAR up or down the river in long tail boats. I have often thought that a business of one and two seat kayaks floating down the mae kok is very low impact on the environment and would be a good seller to tourists looking for some kind of adventure. Have one or more local guides along, a pickup truck to haul them in or out?

This has turned into big business on many mountain waterways in the USA and seems from what i see to have realtivily little impact on the rivers. Of course even a simple biz like this can be hijacked in a manner similar to vang vien where locals set up booze/party bars all along the river complete with massive stereos, cheap beer, dive platforms etc that ultimately turned a peaceful pleasant float down the river into a drunken party that finally got so bad the Laos government had to come in and shut all the bars down due to accidents and deaths.

6. I am not impressed by trip advisor and getting good ratings from tourists. I have no doubt that the tour is viewed as an exciting way to see the countryside by tourists. But i do question how many of these very tourists even consider for one minute the impact that more and more ATV tours could very well have. I was IN the tourism business for over 35 years and have seen many many tours that the tourists LOVED but behind the scenes caused massive problems of pollution or disruption of eco systems or simply destroying the peace and quiet that many tourists seek. Tourists come and tourists go and generally they do not have to live with the results of what they may leave behind. Example: jet skis, parasailing, dune buggies, etc.

7. Anyway...I again COMMEND this man for at least attempting to help. And I know that most anything anyone tries to do will be condemmed by some. However, I do not think it is wrong or an attack on him for me and others to question the ATV part of this business. I would simply appeal for him to take a good hard look at the ATV part and at least consider what it may well lead to and IF IF there are other better ways to help the people?

Perhaps some others have some suggestions as to other ways this man might consider to help as he does seem to want to make a difference?

[aliep]

Perhaps to say he is a friend is pushing the point a little bit. I've met him on a three or four occasions though I seem to be telephoning him more often now, thanks to TV and he seems nice enough and as I said before, his heart seems to be in the right place. I suspect nobody here really knows him, such is his nature.

This place is not currently a resort though he does make no secret that's what he wants for his daughter in years to come. I understand there is a zoning issue for a resort and whilst Thai resort owners in Zone C (eg Phowadol Resort) are ok, Farang owners are not and he won't break the law.

As you suggested, I called him to tell him of your ideas. He does not currently have an active thasivisa account and therefore can't respond, but he said several guests have asked about mountain biking there and it's quite possible in the future. He will put it to the next village meeting and will sponsor anyone in the village that wants to start that venture by buying the bikes initially for them. He also says the prices for his tours have always been on his website and always will be and suggests you look at the bottom of each tour page.

He also said Nonja has now visited him and you might want to PM her for more details, but he doubts she will risk being attacked by posting on here.

He hasn't flown a helicopter since 2009 and therefore no longer can, but he has built a landing pad for them which is currently only used by the military/forestry who use it when they are visiting the village so they don't destroy the farmers corn crops. He also suggests anyone flying by helicopter in Thailand might want to think carefully as there is poor maintenance, witnessed by the number of crashes and most pilots (army) are self-certified here.

On the issue of Eco friendly, he says point taken on the ATV business but supply will always grow to fill demand and if not him, it will be someone else. Personally, I think that's a bit of a lame answer and the weakest point of what he's doing. He says he doesn't use ATV's and wished he never bought them as they are far too dangerous. He uses only UTV's with roll cages and seatbelts which are much safer and will gladly sell all the ATV's he bought at a loss if anyone wants one. He is happy to welcome anyone from the forum at his home and defend why it's eco friendly in nature, though he accepts it's arguably not "low impact". Eco friendly was a requirement given to the architect at design stage and there are dozens of demonstrable eco-friendly features which increased the build cost. If you want to debate them, he is prepared to make a list for me to post but warns the list will be sizeable.

He is happy to consider any ideas to give the village youngsters opportunities other than farming which cannot sustain the existing family growth already.

[villagefarang]

Generally I prefer to discuss issues as apposed to people. To that point, I wish this discussion had not been made to focus so much on one individual and his business. Each comment opens the door for more advertising in the form of rebuttal. Good points and interesting ideas are being overshadowed by the personal nature of this discussion. I am probably in the minority here but I think we have missed an opportunity to elevate this discussion to another level.

[aliep]

I can't believe this forum would have any impact on any "tourism" business here. I think the membership is almost exclusively non-tourist in nature and I suspect we are too used to local Thai prices to pay thousands of baht for a ride in this chaps wotsits. I think we could advertise his business in big flashing letters on TV and he probably wouldn't get a single customer. My opinion for what it's worth.

Would we be off topic if we debated what is eco friendly and what isn't? That would be much more interesting to this poster.

We have probably done the tourism thing to death but we could discuss transportation (LPG vs CNG vs Gasoline vs Diesel), whether Hybrid cars are actually eco friendly or the amount of rare earths used in their batteries and magnets defeats their eco friendly nature.

Whether inverter a/c is more eco friendly than conventional a/c?

How we can all be more eco friendly in our daily lives?

etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

[pomchop]

Perhaps to say he is a friend is pushing the point a little bit. I've met him on a three or four occasions though I seem to be telephoning him more often now, thanks to TV and he seems nice enough and as I said before, his heart seems to be in the right place. I suspect nobody here really knows him, such is his nature.

This place is not currently a resort though he does make no secret that's what he wants for his daughter in years to come. I understand there is a zoning issue for a resort and whilst Thai resort owners in Zone C (eg Phowadol Resort) are ok, Farang owners are not and he won't break the law.

As you suggested, I called him to tell him of your ideas. He does not currently have an active thasivisa account and therefore can't respond, but he said several guests have asked about mountain biking there and it's quite possible in the future. He will put it to the next village meeting and will sponsor anyone in the village that wants to start that venture by buying the bikes initially for them. He also says the prices for his tours have always been on his website and always will be and suggests you look at the bottom of each tour page.

He also said Nonja has now visited him and you might want to PM her for more details, but he doubts she will risk being attacked by posting on here.

He hasn't flown a helicopter since 2009 and therefore no longer can, but he has built a landing pad for them which is currently only used by the military/forestry who use it when they are visiting the village so they don't destroy the farmers corn crops. He also suggests anyone flying by helicopter in Thailand might want to think carefully as there is poor maintenance, witnessed by the number of crashes and most pilots (army) are self-certified here.

On the issue of Eco friendly, he says point taken on the ATV business but supply will always grow to fill demand and if not him, it will be someone else. Personally, I think that's a bit of a lame answer and the weakest point of what he's doing. He says he doesn't use ATV's and wished he never bought them as they are far too dangerous. He uses only UTV's with roll cages and seatbelts which are much safer and will gladly sell all the ATV's he bought at a loss if anyone wants one. He is happy to welcome anyone from the forum at his home and defend why it's eco friendly in nature, though he accepts it's arguably not "low impact". Eco friendly was a requirement given to the architect at design stage and there are dozens of demonstrable eco-friendly features which increased the build cost. If you want to debate them, he is prepared to make a list for me to post but warns the list will be sizeable.

He is happy to consider any ideas to give the village youngsters opportunities other than farming which cannot sustain the existing family growth already.

thanks good points....as an ex hotel and tour biz guy i would recommend he try and build up the upscale resort concept with perhaps horses and bikes and kayaks more than atv.......nothing wrong with having a resort and cateriing to the more wealthy tourists and this resort appears to have good potential in that direction...

please keep us posted as to what happens ..