Legal Question Over Yingluck's Remarks: Bangkok Governor Election

[jayboy]

It was perhaps over rhetorical in character but in direct response to h90 who was dismissive of democracy in a very familiar way that students of far right wing reaction will be familiar.It's relewvant to the thread because to some of these people the possible victory of Pongsapat in the Bangkok election is unbearable and it's interesting to see who they would blame, in this instance apparently democracy itself.As it happens, I suspect they have little to worry about not least because the victory of Pongsapat is very far from certain but also because whoever wins the significance nationally is much much less than many think.

my problem isn't so much who wins,but the gangster like approach to this election PT is taking. yinglucks statement, if she made it,is a threat to the voters. vote for us or you get nothing.

But there's no evidence she made it so a lot of the bile and anger on this thread seems completely misdirected.Let's see if we can obtain a reliable source with accurate wording.This will enable some to either resume their hatefest or reflect in silence on their premature ejaculations ( so to speak)

[thaipod]

Mr Chalerm has already stated that things will work smoother if people vote for the governments candidate , when the Bangkok Governor race started

[rubl]

There seems to be no evidence that PM Yingluck said non-Pheu Thai governors wouldn't get government support What we do have though is:

"Pongsapat said that if voters choose him, the city management would have the support of the central government on water management, the mass transit system and other issues. Transport Minister Chadchart Sittipunt said the central government could, for example, bring maximum benefits to city residents in integrating the city's mass-transportation systems. At present the systems operate independently, but the government could help set up a joint maintenance centre."

"In a month of campaigning, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has been very active in swaying votes for Pongsapat as if she were waging a proxy war to fly the Pheu Thai flag in the capital."

""Yingluck also pushed Pongsapat's selling pitch, saying that if he were elected as governor, coordination between the state government and the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) would be very smooth. "This will benefit Bangkokians," she said."

"With polls suggesting that the Bangkok gubernatorial race is tighter than believed earlier, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said this would be a good opportunity for Pheu Thai candidate Pongsapat Pongcharoen to prove his abilities before the March 3 election."

A big hurray for the common folks who stand up to the unelected elite and vow to make the life of Bangkokians better. The normal people like you and me, Police General Pongsapat and a few Amply Rich Shinawatras.

Edited February 25, 2013 by rubl

[khunken]

It was perhaps over rhetorical in character but in direct response to h90 who was dismissive of democracy in a very familiar way that students of far right wing reaction will be familiar.It's relewvant to the thread because to some of these people the possible victory of Pongsapat in the Bangkok election is unbearable and it's interesting to see who they would blame, in this instance apparently democracy itself.As it happens, I suspect they have little to worry about not least because the victory of Pongsapat is very far from certain but also because whoever wins the significance nationally is much much less than many think.

my problem isn't so much who wins,but the gangster like approach to this election PT is taking. yinglucks statement, if she made it,is a threat to the voters. vote for us or you get nothing.

But there's no evidence she made it so a lot of the bile and anger on this thread seems completely misdirected.Let's see if we can obtain a reliable source with accurate wording.This will enable some to either resume their hatefest or reflect in silence on their premature ejaculations ( so to speak)

There's no evidence that she made the comments nor is their evidence that she didn't. Even if she did, it is very doubtful that anything would come of it in the present political climate. What is clear is that the PTP party (& Thaksin's other versions) went out of their way to prevent anything in the way of improvements to the BTS while Democrats were in charge of Bangkok.

A second problem for Bangkok is: who would have defended the city during the mismanagement by the government of the 2011 floods if a PTP yes-man had been in charge? Sukhumband's efforts were not perfect but at least he knew what he was doing in contrast to Plodprasop & Yingluck.

Your usage of 'hatefest' could just as easily apply to the anti-Abhisit mob.

Edited February 25, 2013 by khunken

[kingstonkid]

But if people voted for other candidates, they would not receive support from the government.

the PM spoke at the election rally as a state official because she was introduced to the stage to speak as the PM, so her statement could constitute abuse of authority.

.

It would be good to nail at least one of the Shinawatras for these not-so-veiled threats that they've been issuing to voters for a decade.

.

Got any evidence for Yingluck actually making the statement below? Got a link?

"But if people voted for other candidates, they would not receive support from the government."

Thaksin's foolish statement is well attested but so far nothing I am aware of to support the accusation against Yingluck.

If she did make the statement above she is obviously wrong but there's nothing preventing her from offering strong support to Pondapat.

JAYBOY

Obviously you are a PT supporter.

OK that is your choice and I will not comment. However, the fact that it is quoted in the newspaper and is being broadcast tells us that it [probably happened.

I agree that there is nothing stopping citizen Yingluck from offering support. HOWEVER, THERE IS A GREAT DEAL wrong with her as PM offering support and hinting in any way that one candidate will get better treatment than any others.

That is a blatant attempt at interfering with an election.

Let me ask you this. When the Dems were in power what would you have said if Absihit had of made a statement that if people voted for the Dem he would make sure that they got cleaner streets and better BTS service but if they voted PT they would not get either?

Just wondering

[kimamey]

I don't think even the BKK voters are so naive that they don't realise that PT election promises are all about support Thaksin and we will shower you with money or support the Dems and buy your own water pump.

So thats what it's all about, so simple now you've pointed it out

There doesn't seem to be any clarification of whether the PM said this or not but either she did or she said something that was incorrectly interpreted as such. The only other possibility is that Suriyasai is lying or simply didn't understand what she said. I would think that there's at least some truth in this and it's right that the Election Commission should give a fair verdict on this. I'm sure you'd agree that the election should be undertaken legally.

Whilst it's true that there doesn't seem to be any conclusive proof of the PM's words I seem to recall many posts on here claiming that in 2010 Abhisit told the army to go and shoot protesters despite there being no proof of this. Sometimes there is no proof or it's a long time coming but in the meantime people will give their opinions based on the story as they are aware of it at the time.

Has the PM or the PTP commented on this yet?

[Pimay1]

I don't think even the BKK voters are so naive that they don't realise that PT election promises are all about support Thaksin and we will shower you with money or support the Dems and buy your own water pump.

So thats what it's all about, so simple now you've pointed it out

There doesn't seem to be any clarification of whether the PM said this or not but either she did or she said something that was incorrectly interpreted as such. The only other possibility is that Suriyasai is lying or simply didn't understand what she said. I would think that there's at least some truth in this and it's right that the Election Commission should give a fair verdict on this. I'm sure you'd agree that the election should be undertaken legally.

Whilst it's true that there doesn't seem to be any conclusive proof of the PM's words I seem to recall many posts on here claiming that in 2010 Abhisit told the army to go and shoot protesters despite there being no proof of this. Sometimes there is no proof or it's a long time coming but in the meantime people will give their opinions based on the story as they are aware of it at the time.

Has the PM or the PTP commented on this yet?

Not seen any comment yet but expect the following.

[jayboy]

But if people voted for other candidates, they would not receive support from the government.

the PM spoke at the election rally as a state official because she was introduced to the stage to speak as the PM, so her statement could constitute abuse of authority.

.

It would be good to nail at least one of the Shinawatras for these not-so-veiled threats that they've been issuing to voters for a decade.

.

Got any evidence for Yingluck actually making the statement below? Got a link?

"But if people voted for other candidates, they would not receive support from the government."

Thaksin's foolish statement is well attested but so far nothing I am aware of to support the accusation against Yingluck.

If she did make the statement above she is obviously wrong but there's nothing preventing her from offering strong support to Pondapat.

JAYBOY

Obviously you are a PT supporter.

OK that is your choice and I will not comment. However, the fact that it is quoted in the newspaper and is being broadcast tells us that it [probably happened.

I agree that there is nothing stopping citizen Yingluck from offering support. HOWEVER, THERE IS A GREAT DEAL wrong with her as PM offering support and hinting in any way that one candidate will get better treatment than any others.

That is a blatant attempt at interfering with an election.

Let me ask you this. When the Dems were in power what would you have said if Absihit had of made a statement that if people voted for the Dem he would make sure that they got cleaner streets and better BTS service but if they voted PT they would not get either?

Just wondering

Pointless post because there's no evidence she said it.If she did say it I would condemn it.I assume you are having a laugh in suggesting that because it appeared in a Thai newspaper it "probably happened ".

[rubl]

Waiting for a defamation case to be lodged by either PM Yingluck, cabinet ministers, Pheu Thai MPs, UDD leaders or Police generals

[oldsailor35]

I have read reports in the other media, that they plan to cut power to provinces that supported yellow and will keep the power on to red provinces.

Ho Hum.

I think that we are already having that problem on Samui. Power out (That i know of, but probably more) since the 4 day cut in December. January 6th.,14th., 16th., 18th.,28th., Feb 23rd., 24th 25th........Bit of a problem, but mai pen rai as usual ! Apart from this, i understand that Yellow reigns supreme in the South !

[Yo Sup]

I recall that square headed lad in Dubai saying in 2004 that those provinces that didn't support Thai Rak Thai should not expect any help from the government. What the hell is the matter with these people? It is clear they have no understanding of representative democracy. Why am I not surprised...

He said it to a meeting of teachers in Khon Kaen, there was a reaction in the media and he made the usual politicians crap excuses of " misquoted "and " taken out of context " but it was quite clear what he meant.

His sister is a political novice but there again she's a Thai politician and they live in that world of saying and doing what they like with impunity

I forgot to say he also wanted to zone the south into graded areas and the most troublesome would not get any government aid. As usual he had opened his mouth without engaging his brain but it was glossed over without explanation

What brain...?

[scorecard]

I have read reports in the other media, that they plan to cut power to provinces that supported yellow and will keep the power on to red provinces.

Ho Hum.

I think that we are already having that problem on Samui. Power out (That i know of, but probably more) since the 4 day cut in December. January 6th.,14th., 16th., 18th.,28th., Feb 23rd., 24th 25th........Bit of a problem, but mai pen rai as usual ! Apart from this, i understand that Yellow reigns supreme in the South !

Are you meaning that yellow = democrats?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed (again) as well as the replies.

[Thai at Heart]

chainarong, on 25 Feb 2013 - 10:13, said:

My only problem is that when these remarks/ veiled threats are made, respectable governments should call in the Thai Ambassador and give them a grilling on Democracy, they all know the game being played here in Thai , applying pressure would let them know others are watching, they don't like that.

Which governments would that be?

USA 2 party system?

French majority system where you don't come into parliament even if you get many votes and you can't be voted for as president without a give amount of governors sign for you?

Germany with their NDP disaster?

Yes the Swiss government could have called the Ambassador...

Other countries aren't far ahead in democracy. Just the problems are less visible....

Yup, just look at all the pesky problems of democracy - a messy inefficient process which is much too over valued.What we need is a strong man at the helm who can make the trains run on time and keep the underclass in line.And if we absolutely must have a franchise let's restrict it to those who pay taxes,have a university degree and don't burden the state with welfare demands.Above all let's keep the current elite social order and never stint on channelling money to the army, our virtuous protector (except of course against China to whom we must kowtow, we sons of China).Sound familiar? It ought to:it was the constant dream beat of the fascist PAD movement of which you were so fervent a champion at one time.

This is the philosophical, political conundrum of our time. How can apparent dictatorships or single party states be so good at delivering prosperity.

Doesn't scan with western democratic thinking.

[Halion]

The PM is a dilusional puppet, however, even she knows that she is so far out of her depth that it is only a mater of time before she drowns in her own incompotence. She has spent the past two years hiding when ever possible and only coming out on the coat tails of her big brother and his syncophantic cronnies. The whole thing is all smoke and mirrors and I seriously doubt that any of the current Govenment ministers has done an honest days work since coming to power.

[jayboy]

chainarong, on 25 Feb 2013 - 10:13, said:

My only problem is that when these remarks/ veiled threats are made, respectable governments should call in the Thai Ambassador and give them a grilling on Democracy, they all know the game being played here in Thai , applying pressure would let them know others are watching, they don't like that.Which governments would that be?

USA 2 party system?

French majority system where you don't come into parliament even if you get many votes and you can't be voted for as president without a give amount of governors sign for you?

Germany with their NDP disaster?

Yes the Swiss government could have called the Ambassador...

Other countries aren't far ahead in democracy. Just the problems are less visible....

Yup, just look at all the pesky problems of democracy - a messy inefficient process which is much too over valued.What we need is a strong man at the helm who can make the trains run on time and keep the underclass in line.And if we absolutely must have a franchise let's restrict it to those who pay taxes,have a university degree and don't burden the state with welfare demands.Above all let's keep the current elite social order and never stint on channelling money to the army, our virtuous protector (except of course against China to whom we must kowtow, we sons of China).Sound familiar? It ought to:it was the constant dream beat of the fascist PAD movement of which you were so fervent a champion at one time.

This is the philosophical, political conundrum of our time. How can apparent dictatorships or single party states be so good at delivering prosperity.

Doesn't scan with western democratic thinking.

It's a fascinating and good question, probably best discussed on another thread.But one thought to ponder - despite the differing China - India approaches few countries have ever been able to deliver mass prosperity that weren't functioning democracy albeit tailored to local conditions.

Singapore is the exception but even there things are stirring,precisely because of the country's success.

[Thai at Heart]

chainarong, on 25 Feb 2013 - 10:13, said:

My only problem is that when these remarks/ veiled threats are made, respectable governments should call in the Thai Ambassador and give them a grilling on Democracy, they all know the game being played here in Thai , applying pressure would let them know others are watching, they don't like that.Which governments would that be?

USA 2 party system?

French majority system where you don't come into parliament even if you get many votes and you can't be voted for as president without a give amount of governors sign for you?

Germany with their NDP disaster?

Yes the Swiss government could have called the Ambassador...

Other countries aren't far ahead in democracy. Just the problems are less visible....

Yup, just look at all the pesky problems of democracy - a messy inefficient process which is much too over valued.What we need is a strong man at the helm who can make the trains run on time and keep the underclass in line.And if we absolutely must have a franchise let's restrict it to those who pay taxes,have a university degree and don't burden the state with welfare demands.Above all let's keep the current elite social order and never stint on channelling money to the army, our virtuous protector (except of course against China to whom we must kowtow, we sons of China).Sound familiar? It ought to:it was the constant dream beat of the fascist PAD movement of which you were so fervent a champion at one time.

This is the philosophical, political conundrum of our time. How can apparent dictatorships or single party states be so good at delivering prosperity.

Doesn't scan with western democratic thinking.

It's a fascinating and good question, probably best discussed on another thread.But one thought to ponder - despite the differing China - India approaches few countries have ever been able to deliver mass prosperity that weren't functioning democracy albeit tailored to local conditions.

Singapore is the exception but even there things are stirring,precisely because of the country's success.

Well, its all relative, what has been achieved in China since the 70s is amazing. We believed, capitalism + democracy= prosperity. Maybe not an exclusive relationship.

Long term stability and planning + controlled capitalism = prosperity too.

is an election every 4 or 5 years in any way ideal?

just look at Russia, what a mess in comparison with China. And to believe that democracy is an inevitable outcome of capitalist wealth, maybe too much of a stretch.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[Ian Curtis]

I recall that square headed lad in Dubai saying in 2004 that those provinces that didn't support Thai Rak Thai should not expect any help from the government. What the hell is the matter with these people? It is clear they have no understanding of representative democracy. Why am I not surprised...

He said it to a meeting of teachers in Khon Kaen, there was a reaction in the media and he made the usual politicians crap excuses of " misquoted "and " taken out of context " but it was quite clear what he meant.

His sister is a political novice but there again she's a Thai politician and they live in that world of saying and doing what they like with impunity

I forgot to say he also wanted to zone the south into graded areas and the most troublesome would not get any government aid. As usual he had opened his mouth without engaging his brain but it was glossed over without explanation

Rather difficult to engage a brain if it doesn't exist

[theajarn]

Ah, just like they flooded Bangkok back in 2011. Of COURSE they will make non-red villages/towns/cities suffer. And of course the Thai people will remain ignorant and all-accepting lemmings to this dictatorship. Welcome to Chinaland.

[metisdead]

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