Police Bust Russian Gang On Samui

[bunuel]

I can think of one already in Koh Samui that is even more well known!

name="harber8" post="6154156" timestamp="1361939740"]

Maybe it's time the Thai Government rethinks it's visa policy for Russians?

Jimi, why don't you ask Thai government to change their visa policy for other countries citizens since there are many criminal cases here in Thailand where other nationalities involved, not only Russians. Or you think that only Russians are all criminals?

I agree Waldemar...it's not just the Russians.

But name a mafia which has and continues to stick it's neck out here as much as the Russians???

[carmine]

This whole story sounds totally unbelievable to me. Perhaps we will learn more about it on april 1st.

[Groadie666]

Maybe it's time the Thai Government rethinks it's visa policy for Russians?

The Thai government should rethink their visa policy for Russians??? Where are you from?? Take a look in the mirror!! The worst attitudes I know are from my country's neighbors, they think their shit doesn't stink and they are the best and nobody is better!! The real world terrorists!!

Came through Poipet last week and noticed a lot or Russians coming through dressed as backpackers. They didn't have that look that backpackers have, shorts too neat and tidy, spotless T shirts and shoes that looked quite expensive and most definately well out of their twenties. Didn't look right in my eyes anyway.

Russians like to look and dress good, no matter what the situation!! They would spend their last dime to impress!!

In my 12th visit to Koh Samui I NEVER seen so many Russians before.

Most of them keep their chin high up and think they are better then everyone else.

I hope this "Bust" help`s the Thai Goverment to "rethink" the visa for alot of Russians.

One bad apple can make the whole basket bad. In this case, alot of the Russian Tourists are bad apples. Sad, but true.

I know many Russians, but the thing going on here in Thailand now is escalating like ants on a sugarstick!

Seperate the good apples from the bad ones!

Karma can bite you back, HARD!

Please read my first comment above!!

Open again.

PLEASE READ THE RULES.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[bigbamboo]

With Thailand and Russia both being effectively mafia states it was only a matter of time before one would eventually attract the other.

Thirty per centers flock together.

[yougivemebaby]

If the BIB don't make an example of these guys, this will lead to many more of these. The Russians saw them as easy prey.

[Groadie666]

I can think of one already in Koh Samui that is even more well known!

name="harber8" post="6154156" timestamp="1361939740"]

Maybe it's time the Thai Government rethinks it's visa policy for Russians?

Jimi, why don't you ask Thai government to change their visa policy for other countries citizens since there are many criminal cases here in Thailand where other nationalities involved, not only Russians. Or you think that only Russians are all criminals?

I agree Waldemar...it's not just the Russians.

But name a mafia which has and continues to stick it's neck out here as much as the Russians???

Thai......???

Edited February 27, 2013 by Groadie666

[bunuel]

This thread has provoked a number of responses that come accross as a bit...tired and emotional, to coin a phrase. Some posters cannot see the forest for the trees. As someone who has written about sustainable tourism development around the world, the

key question here is what is provoking all these emotional responses?

I would suggest it is the impact of unregulated mass tourism from one country on the delicate social infrastructure of any popular destination. For example, many Caribbean islands have recognized that unregulated mass tourism can have a devastating effect on electricity and water supply, as well as antagonize the local population, who feel like foreigners in their own country, particularly if they see few economic benefits from the influx. As a result, these islands have discouraged or banned the construction of all-inclusive resorts , since they do not want to "kill the fatted calf" , as they say in the Caribbean.

Similarly, many countries recognize that not all foreigners have different taste and interest, and some do not mingle well with other foreign groups. In Turkey, for example, government planners have designated areas for Germans, French and English mass tourism, knowing full well that some people just want to socialize with people who speak their language, etc.

There are also some of us who travel to escape the thundering herd from back home, and who take delight in discovering new countries and new cultures. Most of my Russian friends would fall into this category, and I know they have the same problems as I do with unregulated mass tourism, no matter from what country. The bottom line is that an invasion of a destination from any single country can disrupt the delicate balance that has evolved between the local population and foreign visitors. And this disruption of the social balance can quickly ruin the destination for other foreigners, resulting in substantial loss of income for Thailand.

As far as the crime issue is concerned, I have seen first hand my favorite destination in Brazil utterly destroyed by money laundering operations run by the Italian mafia, and it broke my heart. Simultaneously, I could understand it - the amounts of money were so huge that few local politicians could resist. And those few that resisted were frequently killed.

A sad story. Here in Thailand, I am happy to say we are not there yet, but I am sure the Thai authorities will take measures to ensure that it does not happen - just as they did in the past with the Chinese.Simultaneously, I urge the TOT to limit mass tourism to certain designated areas intended for that purpose, like Phuket, and to stop measuring success by numbers. Most countries recognize it is far more sustainable to have fewer tourists who spend more, rather than more or spend less. Promote special interest and medical tourism, and protect those lucrative markets by listening to their needs.

Cultural issues are a distraction here - business is business, and I am sure our Thai friends can appreciate the bottom line.

[HerbalEd]

Not so good at their JOB , are they ? Letting their victim to keep his phone to call for help.

How do you know he used "his" own phone?

[carmine]

This is one ridiculous story. So, lets see, the russian mafia kidnapped some people, but didn't blindfold them and let them have access to WI FI. Then the police did something!

The only thing they were busted for was probably not wearing a helmet and fined 300 baht

Edited February 27, 2013 by carmine

[Tropicalevo]

Not so good at their JOB , are they ? Letting their victim to keep his phone to call for help.

How do you know he used "his" own phone?

One article states that they gave him his phone back so that he could arrange the money drop.

(Post #31)

Edited February 27, 2013 by Tropicalevo

[username1]

I lived in Pattaya for 6 years and watched the place slowly deteriorate with the influx of Russians. Yeah, it was a pishole before, but there were

enough quality people around to offset them. Well, that's changing rapidly. More and more Russians and less and less quality farangs. And a

lot of the old guard are looking to get out. So, what will be left? Who cares? Its ruined, already.

The Thais? What do they care. They only care about lining their pockets. Doesn't matter where it comes from. They'll wake up one day and

it will be only Russians here. But most of 'em won't know because they cannot tell where a farang is from anyways. Just as long as they can

squeeze 15 bodies in a baht bus, they are happy.

The visa thing? I heard that Russia has some kind of Most Favored Nation status with Thailand that allows them a hell of a lot more leeway than

the rest of us. Why? Its all about the oil. Who has the oil the world needs? Russia baby! Makes a lot of countries cringe realizing they have to

kiss the a*s of these clowns. Welcome to the 21st century.

Dear Hater,

This is a picture of Rama 5 and Szar Nicolar. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/centscru/CzarNicholasandRama5.jpg

Russia and Thailand have a long history together. There are royal intermarriages etc.

I went to Pattaya 5 years ago when there weren't that many Russians there. I saw plenty of Western European, Australian and American Sex tourists, child molesters and ugly drunks. Yes, I agree the Siberian Villagers that go there aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, but to generalize that ALL Russians are like this or that is plain ignorant.

Pattaya has beautiful areas if you ever walk past walking street, I biked all over and found great Thai people and unspoiled nature. Everytime someone posts an article about a Brit molesting children in Pattaya you do not hear a public outcry that all Brit visas should be banned. So please keep your hate. If you do not like Pattaya, or Russians please move like you did when you did not like your original home.

Thank you,

Russia National

You would probably hear public outcry about molesting brits, if they were running some kind of pedo ring in many Thai cities already and the problem would be noticeable easily.

[Locationthailand]

Sounds like a set up to remove competition in scams of which Samui is already in limelight.

[Beetlejuice]

And don't transform quickly this thread in a Russian bashing one.

Exactly.

Perhaps the authorities should consider tighter visa regulations for all Westerners plonking themselves in Thailand?

Most of them are contravening one law or another and all should be investigated.

[robsamui]

I do not want to sound racist here. But, how many people are running into Russian tourists here in Thailand, that have redeeming qualities? I constantly meet surly, grouchy, unfriendly, Cossack style Russians, where ever I go. Whether it be Samui, Phuket, Pattaya, or Bangkok, the level of Russians I am running into is scary. Are all Russians like this? They are some pretty icy, rude, loud, arrogant people, without much in the way of redeeming qualities, from my point of view. Am I missing something here? I realize that nearly their entire current wealth is due to ransacking Siberia in the 16-17th centuries, and killing and maiming millions for the sake of the acquisition of fur. In the process they acquired (if rape, and murder is an appropriate way to acquire) an enormous territory, which now constitutes 90% of their natural gas, and 80% or their oil production, not to mention diamonds, gold, etc. But, are there no cultures Russians these days? They are not a pleasant addition to the landscape here in the LOS. Anybody agree? Or disagree?

I think that for me the biggest problem regarding specifically Russians (I can only speak about Samui) is that generically they speak very little English. Not being able to speak any of the common languages (English or Thai) except for a few learned phrases means that they do not socialise. Other nationalities will come here for several months, find accommodation somewhere that suits them, then meet-up with all sorts of different people out in the restaurants bars and clubs and then make a wider circle of friends of all nationalities - it's one of the great things about Samui . . . a cosmopolitan community.

But because Russians tend not to socialise, this means that they all group themselves together in small concentrated communities and don't share at all, or involve themselves, with the people around them. This then attracts more Russian friends/visitors to the same area and it grows. Even the little local Thai restaurants have menus in Russian and now I feel that I am a stranger in my own area. There's no friendly nods or waves of greeting, they don't even acknowledge my presence (even though I was going there long before they were) and I've now started eating elsewhere.

With such intensely-concentrated groups of what are essentially 'anti-social' people (by definition) it is hardly surprising that this might contain a criminal element, whatever their nationality.

The only other national group who band-together like this on Samui seem to be the Filipinos. But I've never heard any adverse comments about their attitude or behavior - or criminality either, come to think of it. Perhaps it's because they can communicate with the community around them and readily go out and interact with it, who knows.

Yes I know there are exceptions to all general observations. But as with all generalisations the core points contain some element of validity.

R

Edited February 27, 2013 by robsamui

[yorkie100]

And don't transform quickly this thread in a Russian bashing one.

Exactly.

Perhaps the authorities should consider tighter visa regulations for all Westerners plonking themselves in Thailand?

Most of them are contravening one law or another and all should be investigated.

What a ridiculous statement totally unsupported by ANY facts.

[Markaew]

And don't transform quickly this thread in a Russian bashing one.

I have never seen your posts before. How can you have over 3000 posts?

[angiud]

And don't transform quickly this thread in a Russian bashing one.

I have never seen your posts before. How can you have over 3000 posts?

I don't know.

Just woke up one morning with a lot of post, an important and well paid assignment and an handsome avatar.

[Andre0720]

I do not want to sound racist here. But, how many people are running into Russian tourists here in Thailand, that have redeeming qualities? I constantly meet surly, grouchy, unfriendly, Cossack style Russians, where ever I go. Whether it be Samui, Phuket, Pattaya, or Bangkok, the level of Russians I am running into is scary. Are all Russians like this? They are some pretty icy, rude, loud, arrogant people, without much in the way of redeeming qualities, from my point of view. Am I missing something here? I realize that nearly their entire current wealth is due to ransacking Siberia in the 16-17th centuries, and killing and maiming millions for the sake of the acquisition of fur. In the process they acquired (if rape, and murder is an appropriate way to acquire) an enormous territory, which now constitutes 90% of their natural gas, and 80% or their oil production, not to mention diamonds, gold, etc. But, are there no cultures Russians these days? They are not a pleasant addition to the landscape here in the LOS. Anybody agree? Or disagree?

I think that for me the biggest problem regarding specifically Russians (I can only speak about Samui) is that generically they speak very little English. Not being able to speak any of the common languages (English or Thai) except for a few learned phrases means that they do not socialise. Other nationalities will come here for several months, find accommodation somewhere that suits them, then meet-up with all sorts of different people out in the restaurants bars and clubs and then make a wider circle of friends of all nationalities - it's one of the great things about Samui . . . a cosmopolitan community.

But because Russians tend not to socialise, this means that they all group themselves together in small concentrated communities and don't share at all, or involve themselves, with the people around them. This then attracts more Russian friends/visitors to the same area and it grows. Even the little local Thai restaurants have menus in Russian and now I feel that I am a stranger in my own area. There's no friendly nods or waves of greeting, they don't even acknowledge my presence (even though I was going there long before they were) and I've now started eating elsewhere.

With such intensely-concentrated groups of what are essentially 'anti-social' people (by definition) it is hardly surprising that this might contain a criminal element, whatever their nationality.

The only other national group who band-together like this on Samui seem to be the Filipinos. But I've never heard any adverse comments about their attitude or behavior - or criminality either, come to think of it. Perhaps it's because they can communicate with the community around them and readily go out and interact with it, who knows.

Yes I know there are exceptions to all general observations. But as with all generalisations the core points contain some element of validity.

R

'''I think that for me the biggest problem regarding specifically Russians (I can only speak about Samui) is that generically they speak very little English.'''

Many many thai girls speak very little english, but are still able to socialise I would say.

[Andre0720]

Back home, russians made themselves known some years ago by kidnapping, inside Russia, the family of successful hockey players geting a very good salary in my country. . The kidnappers demanded a ransom from the hockey player, or else.

We had never heard of anything like that.

Somalians at least kidnap vessels that are foreign owned.

[robsamui]

I do not want to sound racist here. But, how many people are running into Russian tourists here in Thailand, that have redeeming qualities? I constantly meet surly, grouchy, unfriendly, Cossack style Russians, where ever I go. Whether it be Samui, Phuket, Pattaya, or Bangkok, the level of Russians I am running into is scary. Are all Russians like this? They are some pretty icy, rude, loud, arrogant people, without much in the way of redeeming qualities, from my point of view. Am I missing something here? I realize that nearly their entire current wealth is due to ransacking Siberia in the 16-17th centuries, and killing and maiming millions for the sake of the acquisition of fur. In the process they acquired (if rape, and murder is an appropriate way to acquire) an enormous territory, which now constitutes 90% of their natural gas, and 80% or their oil production, not to mention diamonds, gold, etc. But, are there no cultures Russians these days? They are not a pleasant addition to the landscape here in the LOS. Anybody agree? Or disagree?

I think that for me the biggest problem regarding specifically Russians (I can only speak about Samui) is that generically they speak very little English. Not being able to speak any of the common languages (English or Thai) except for a few learned phrases means that they do not socialise. Other nationalities will come here for several months, find accommodation somewhere that suits them, then meet-up with all sorts of different people out in the restaurants bars and clubs and then make a wider circle of friends of all nationalities - it's one of the great things about Samui . . . a cosmopolitan community.

But because Russians tend not to socialise, this means that they all group themselves together in small concentrated communities and don't share at all, or involve themselves, with the people around them. This then attracts more Russian friends/visitors to the same area and it grows. Even the little local Thai restaurants have menus in Russian and now I feel that I am a stranger in my own area. There's no friendly nods or waves of greeting, they don't even acknowledge my presence (even though I was going there long before they were) and I've now started eating elsewhere.

With such intensely-concentrated groups of what are essentially 'anti-social' people (by definition) it is hardly surprising that this might contain a criminal element, whatever their nationality.

The only other national group who band-together like this on Samui seem to be the Filipinos. But I've never heard any adverse comments about their attitude or behavior - or criminality either, come to think of it. Perhaps it's because they can communicate with the community around them and readily go out and interact with it, who knows.

Yes I know there are exceptions to all general observations. But as with all generalisations the core points contain some element of validity.

R

'''I think that for me the biggest problem regarding specifically Russians (I can only speak about Samui) is that generically they speak very little English.'''

Many many thai girls speak very little english, but are still able to socialise I would say.

Absolutely the point I am subtly making without wanting to have someone yell 'racist' at me!

R

Edited February 27, 2013 by robsamui

[Arkady]

Maybe it's time the Thai Government rethinks it's visa policy for Russians?

Jimi, why don't you ask Thai government to change their visa policy for other countries citizens since there are many criminal cases here in Thailand where other nationalities involved, not only Russians. Or you think that only Russians are all criminals?

Can you explain the russian visa thing? Do they have easier way to get visa and stay longtime?

Khman which is in Penang now for visa issues...

No, but they can stay without visa in advance for 30 days, same as Thais can in Russia, under a reciprocal treaty.

[Andre0720]

I do not want to sound racist here. But, how many people are running into Russian tourists here in Thailand, that have redeeming qualities? I constantly meet surly, grouchy, unfriendly, Cossack style Russians, where ever I go. Whether it be Samui, Phuket, Pattaya, or Bangkok, the level of Russians I am running into is scary. Are all Russians like this? They are some pretty icy, rude, loud, arrogant people, without much in the way of redeeming qualities, from my point of view. Am I missing something here? I realize that nearly their entire current wealth is due to ransacking Siberia in the 16-17th centuries, and killing and maiming millions for the sake of the acquisition of fur. In the process they acquired (if rape, and murder is an appropriate way to acquire) an enormous territory, which now constitutes 90% of their natural gas, and 80% or their oil production, not to mention diamonds, gold, etc. But, are there no cultures Russians these days? They are not a pleasant addition to the landscape here in the LOS. Anybody agree? Or disagree?

I think that for me the biggest problem regarding specifically Russians (I can only speak about Samui) is that generically they speak very little English. Not being able to speak any of the common languages (English or Thai) except for a few learned phrases means that they do not socialise. Other nationalities will come here for several months, find accommodation somewhere that suits them, then meet-up with all sorts of different people out in the restaurants bars and clubs and then make a wider circle of friends of all nationalities - it's one of the great things about Samui . . . a cosmopolitan community.

But because Russians tend not to socialise, this means that they all group themselves together in small concentrated communities and don't share at all, or involve themselves, with the people around them. This then attracts more Russian friends/visitors to the same area and it grows. Even the little local Thai restaurants have menus in Russian and now I feel that I am a stranger in my own area. There's no friendly nods or waves of greeting, they don't even acknowledge my presence (even though I was going there long before they were) and I've now started eating elsewhere.

With such intensely-concentrated groups of what are essentially 'anti-social' people (by definition) it is hardly surprising that this might contain a criminal element, whatever their nationality.

The only other national group who band-together like this on Samui seem to be the Filipinos. But I've never heard any adverse comments about their attitude or behavior - or criminality either, come to think of it. Perhaps it's because they can communicate with the community around them and readily go out and interact with it, who knows.

Yes I know there are exceptions to all general observations. But as with all generalisations the core points contain some element of validity.

R

'''I think that for me the biggest problem regarding specifically Russians (I can only speak about Samui) is that generically they speak very little English.'''

Many many thai girls speak very little english, but are still able to socialise I would say.

Absolutely the point I am subtly making without wanting to have someone yell 'racist' at me!

R

Well, if I can be allowed to be racist, I will explain also about filipinos. They are hard working, they show up for work, they are faithful, more than thais very very obviously, they have chistian faith (a bit too much faith).

They are known to be good people. They emigrate to California, they apply for a job, and are hired as soon as an opening is available.

So I am racist, just favorably in this instance, and so are many employers in america, and certainly elsewhere in the world where they emigrate.

[Rooo]

Please keep on topic & ENOUGH with the racist comments. Several more posts deleted.

[Rooo]

Also pictures containing nudity not allowed

[Andre0720]

Also pictures containing nudity not allowed

Nudity was already not allowed on the beach, so not allowing them here is more like double jeopardy, mai yut thi tham, mai bpen tham, not fair.

[davo67]

I do not want to sound racist here. But, how many people are running into Russian tourists here in Thailand, that have redeeming qualities? I constantly meet surly, grouchy, unfriendly, Cossack style Russians, where ever I go. Whether it be Samui, Phuket, Pattaya, or Bangkok, the level of Russians I am running into is scary. Are all Russians like this? They are some pretty icy, rude, loud, arrogant people, without much in the way of redeeming qualities, from my point of view. Am I missing something here? I realize that nearly their entire current wealth is due to ransacking Siberia in the 16-17th centuries, and killing and maiming millions for the sake of the acquisition of fur. In the process they acquired (if rape, and murder is an appropriate way to acquire) an enormous territory, which now constitutes 90% of their natural gas, and 80% or their oil production, not to mention diamonds, gold, etc. But, are there no cultures Russians these days? They are not a pleasant addition to the landscape here in the LOS. Anybody agree? Or disagree?

I think that for me the biggest problem regarding specifically Russians (I can only speak about Samui) is that generically they speak very little English. Not being able to speak any of the common languages (English or Thai) except for a few learned phrases means that they do not socialise. Other nationalities will come here for several months, find accommodation somewhere that suits them, then meet-up with all sorts of different people out in the restaurants bars and clubs and then make a wider circle of friends of all nationalities - it's one of the great things about Samui . . . a cosmopolitan community.

But because Russians tend not to socialise, this means that they all group themselves together in small concentrated communities and don't share at all, or involve themselves, with the people around them. This then attracts more Russian friends/visitors to the same area and it grows. Even the little local Thai restaurants have menus in Russian and now I feel that I am a stranger in my own area. There's no friendly nods or waves of greeting, they don't even acknowledge my presence (even though I was going there long before they were) and I've now started eating elsewhere.

With such intensely-concentrated groups of what are essentially 'anti-social' people (by definition) it is hardly surprising that this might contain a criminal element, whatever their nationality.

The only other national group who band-together like this on Samui seem to be the Filipinos. But I've never heard any adverse comments about their attitude or behavior - or criminality either, come to think of it. Perhaps it's because they can communicate with the community around them and readily go out and interact with it, who knows.

Yes I know there are exceptions to all general observations. But as with all generalisations the core points contain some element of validity.

R

spot on, Robsamui. Maybe being unsociable is a cultural thing, but the vast majority of our Russian visitors seem to have a problem with a simple smile.

[samuibeachcomber]

well they are here to stay and the future of tourism in Thailand and future expat community.

they are indeed,i'm waiting for a food cart to start up selling borsch and vodka shots outside yadda bar(,ban rak for the uninitiated)

[Beetlejuice]

Well, if I can be allowed to be racist, I will explain also about filipinos. They are hard working, they show up for work, they are faithful, more than thais very very obviously, they have chistian faith (a bit too much faith).

They are known to be good people. They emigrate to California, they apply for a job, and are hired as soon as an opening is available.

So I am racist, just favorably in this instance, and so are many employers in america, and certainly elsewhere in the world where they emigrate.

Of course you’re being racist. Or in this case you have substituted the word racist for favorable.

You are assuming all persons of a certain nationality or race have the same traits and characteristics. For example, you are saying that Filipinos are hard working and loyal, yet Thais are not. That`s what your comments suggest to me?

I wonder what your views are regarding, Scottish, Irish, Jewish, Russia, East Eurpeons and other peoples? Don`t tell me, you have many as your friends?

Edited February 27, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[BOS2BKK]

To all you guys pointing out the low ransom as a sign of amateurs you couldn't be more wrong. The Colombian FARC turned kidnapping into a finance scheme a long time ago. They quickly realized kidnapping millionaires for million dollar ransoms was high reward but huge risk. Security guards, influential family and friends, were the norm and the physical difficulty of moving millions of dollars in cash.(1Ml US in $100 bills weighs about 10Kg) is no joke. Also a multi million dollar ransom makes it worth it for the insurance companies to engage alternate recovery methods. Faced with these challenges they started kidnapping anonymous middle class people and asking for relatively small ransoms. Your average bar owner can probably lay his hands on $25K without too much trouble, it fits in your pocket, and it is unlikely he is connected enough to get authorities to feign concern. You do one or two of these kidnappings a month with minimal risk and you can quickly make more money that doing the once a year hgh profile kidnapping. You sit on people for a couple of days, if you don't get yoru ransom you kill them, or just walk away and they are on their own. As far as the guy getting a cell phone...that's another story, but the low end kidnapping is well established among organized criminals.

[Andre0720]

Well, if I can be allowed to be racist, I will explain also about filipinos. They are hard working, they show up for work, they are faithful, more than thais very very obviously, they have chistian faith (a bit too much faith).

They are known to be good people. They emigrate to California, they apply for a job, and are hired as soon as an opening is available.

So I am racist, just favorably in this instance, and so are many employers in america, and certainly elsewhere in the world where they emigrate.

Of course you’re being racist. Or in this case you have substituted the word racist for favorable.

You are assuming all persons of a certain nationality or race have the same traits and characteristics. For example, you are saying that Filipinos are hard working and loyal, yet Thais are not. That`s what your comments suggest to me?

I wonder what your views are regarding, Scottish, Irish, Jewish, Russia, East Eurpeons and other peoples? Don`t tell me, you have many as your friends?

Sorry to disappoint you, but I do not have any views regarding most origins that you have listed. I prefer to stick to origins that I know about. And I do know about the philippines, mind you. And about Thailand, as I have been coming here for some 10 years or so. And if you care to learn about russia, just read the above posts.

Thank you for your interest.