A Warning For Others About Importing And Customs Dept.

[lipupfatty]

Hello all,

First post,so be gentle.

A little bit of background first,have been married to a thai lady for more than 10 years,and have been coming here for about 13 years.

The past 5 years or so have been spending more and more time here,so have decided to make the move more permenant.

Shipped our 20ft container from the UK,to Bangkok,which arrived on the 25th of this month.

Unfortunatly because i have a second hand motorbike inside,which i used as a commuter in London,(honda cbr 250r-made in thailand),the customs are trying to get me to pay(extort) around the 200,000 baht mark to release my container,or they won't let me have it.

My wife qualifies under the returning resident scheme,because she has been out of the country for more than 12 months,so she should'nt have to pay any tax on the household goods,but because the bike is in my name,they say she now does not qualify for this.

They just make it up as they go along,i mean the bike you can buy here new for just over 100000 baht with all the correct paperwork,so i'm taking a massive hit because my name is on the logbook(v5),and not her's,it just seems stupid.

I previously shipped some household goods,again a 20ft container about 7 years ago,without any hassle,so why so much over a name on a piece of paper.

I even offered to drag the bike out of the container and said they could have it,but that was not good enough,still must pay.

So this is a warning to others,be very careful when you deal with this mafia.

Tomorrow customs will call my wife again and give a final settlement figure.........i can't wait.

I know why customs do this to people,it's because they can,they don't have anyone to answer to.

It's a shame that i don't know anybody in high society to fight my corner.

Sure sucks.

[ThaidDown]

I would guess that you shipped the goods under your wifes name, ie they were her goods.

So technically she made a false declaration since one of the items, namely a motorcycle was clearly not hers. This would give the Customs people the excuse to try to obtain a large amount of money from her.

Many years ago my wife shipped a container of our household goods from Japan, and although it should have been free of all duties there was still around 4,000 baht to pay for 'locating the items'.

Hopefully they will come back with a more reasonable offer but you might have to let the m/c ''disappear'.

Good luck.

Edit to add... I believe import duties on used vehicles are 3 or more times the value that they put on the goods.

Edited February 28, 2013 by ThaidDown

[HeijoshinCool]

Bummer, dude.

For anyone else shipping a bike, disassemble and ship as "parts" in separate shipments. It will save you the same headache.

[arthurwait]

They aren't making it up. You can't import motor vehicles without paying the tax on the value they put on it (secondhand value in Thailand) the scheme for returning residents being exempt on motor vehicles was scrapped last year or the year before.

You also need permission to import before you ship the vehicle. I assume this applies to motorbikes as well as cars.

There is thread after thread on this matter on this website. You have no choice but to pay and hope they waiver that you didn't have permission to import the bike if it applies to motorbikes.

Edit: and as you know it wasn't your wifes bike so she couldn't import it anyway if the scheme was still in operation. Hope you don't get a big 'fine' on top.

Edited February 28, 2013 by arthurwait

[harrry]

If the container did not have the motorbike listed in it you have the further problem of having tried to import a vehicle without declaring it. Money talks but they have the power.

[lipupfatty]

The motorbike was clearly marked at the top of page 1 on the inventory,so we did'nt try to sneak it in, also the customs officer said my wife was allowed to bring it in,but it had to be in her name,easy to fix with hindsight.

Yes,i tried suggesting it "dissappearing",but they said no can do.

[samran]

The motorbike was clearly marked at the top of page 1 on the inventory,so we did'nt try to sneak it in, also the customs officer said my wife was allowed to bring it in,but it had to be in her name,easy to fix with hindsight.

Yes,i tried suggesting it "dissappearing",but they said no can do.

So basically what they are attempting to do is make everything above board and that you have to pay what one can only assume to be the legitimate (but extremely high) tax on it. I don't see the problem apart from you not liking the price?

[DLock]

I guess the kind of have you over a barrel, so to speak.

They know it will be expensive and prohibitive to send it all back just to remove the motorcycle and try again. They figure you won't do that.

It is now a Poker game. They think they are holding Aces...and in reality, they are. They don't want the bike. They have plenty. They want the cash.

They will come back with a new number, probably 100k, and you will counter at 40k, and you will agree at around 70k.

You are hold and 8,2 off suite...not a time to bluff.

Negotiate....and congratulations. You just paid for your MBA in the intricacies of Thai customs.

Good luck.

[lipupfatty]

Exactly,a more reasonable figure would be acceptable,don't forget,this is assembled by honda in Thailand.

[lipupfatty]

I guess the kind of have you over a barrel, so to speak.

They know it will be expensive and prohibitive to send it all back just to remove the motorcycle and try again. They figure you won't do that.

It is now a Poker game. They think they are holding Aces...and in reality, they are. They don't want the bike. They have plenty. They want the cash.

They will come back with a new number, probably 100k, and you will counter at 40k, and you will agree at around 70k.

You are hold and 8,2 off suite...not a time to bluff.

Negotiate....and congratulations. You just paid for your MBA in the intricacies of Thai customs.

Good luck.

if i can get it for 70k,i will bite their arm off!

[DLock]

I guess the kind of have you over a barrel, so to speak.

They know it will be expensive and prohibitive to send it all back just to remove the motorcycle and try again. They figure you won't do that.

It is now a Poker game. They think they are holding Aces...and in reality, they are. They don't want the bike. They have plenty. They want the cash.

They will come back with a new number, probably 100k, and you will counter at 40k, and you will agree at around 70k.

You are hold and 8,2 off suite...not a time to bluff.

Negotiate....and congratulations. You just paid for your MBA in the intricacies of Thai customs.

Good luck.

if i can get it for 70k,i will bite their arm off!

You may have to be patient, or at least appear that way. Don't appear overly agitated and desperate. Look like you may send it all back and they get nothing.

Not sure how the motorcycle thing will play out though as they really have you here.

Might be a hybrid solution that they keep the bike and you pay 50k.

Good Luck...and remember your table image. Cool and stable.

[Eff1n2ret]

"I previously shipped some household goods,again a 20ft container about 7 years ago,without any hassle,so why so much over a name on a piece of paper."

Was that shipment also in your wife's name? If I recall correctly, the concession to allow a Thai citizen to repatriate goods duty free extends to one shipment only, in which case Customs would be within their rights to charge duty on the whole lot. It's 3.1/2 years since my wife and I did it, so I may be wrong, but I'm sure there was something to that effect in the regulations.

[lipupfatty]

I guess the kind of have you over a barrel, so to speak.

They know it will be expensive and prohibitive to send it all back just to remove the motorcycle and try again. They figure you won't do that.

It is now a Poker game. They think they are holding Aces...and in reality, they are. They don't want the bike. They have plenty. They want the cash.

They will come back with a new number, probably 100k, and you will counter at 40k, and you will agree at around 70k.

You are hold and 8,2 off suite...not a time to bluff.

Negotiate....and congratulations. You just paid for your MBA in the intricacies of Thai customs.

Good luck.

if i can get it for 70k,i will bite their arm off!

You may have to be patient, or at least appear that way. Don't appear overly agitated and desperate. Look like you may send it all back and they get nothing.

Not sure how the motorcycle thing will play out though as they really have you here.

Might be a hybrid solution that they keep the bike and you pay 50k.

Good Luck...and remember your table image. Cool and stable.

50k sounds even better, I wish it was you i was dealing with! But they seem pretty firm around the 150000k-200000k mark,and i will start to be charged storage after 6th march.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Are there Thai lawyers who specialize in this kind of shakedown? and know how to minimize the damage?

[lipupfatty]

"I previously shipped some household goods,again a 20ft container about 7 years ago,without any hassle,so why so much over a name on a piece of paper."

Was that shipment also in your wife's name? If I recall correctly, the concession to allow a Thai citizen to repatriate goods duty free extends to one shipment only, in which case Customs would be within their rights to charge duty on the whole lot. It's 3.1/2 years since my wife and I did it, so I may be wrong, but I'm sure there was something to that effect in the regulations.

You may well be right about the regulations,as i read something similar before,but i previously sent it in my name,and had to pay an "under the table" figure of about 5000 baht to change the paperwork here to save a lot on tax.

[lipupfatty]

Are there Thai lawyers who specialize in this kind of shakedown? and know how to minimize the damage?

If there were i would be glad to know them,if it resulted in saving money and a lot of stress.

[Crossy]

I can't be a lot of help here I'm afraid, but do be aware that whilst you're not paying the requested duty / tax / special fee you're container is racking up 'storage' fees at some unholy rate. It may actually end up cheaper to cough now

[lipupfatty]

I can't be a lot of help here I'm afraid, but do be aware that whilst you're not paying the requested duty / tax / special fee you're container is racking up 'storage' fees at some unholy rate. It may actually end up cheaper to cough now

Yes thats correct,and of course they know it.

The last free day is on the 6th of march,so i may well have to pay up and be taught a painfull lesson.

[p_brownstone]

The motorbike was clearly marked at the top of page 1 on the inventory,so we did'nt try to sneak it in, also the customs officer said my wife was allowed to bring it in,but it had to be in her name,easy to fix with hindsight.

Yes,i tried suggesting it "dissappearing",but they said no can do.

Not wanting to sound like one of those boring old Farang wearing rose tinted glasses and insisting that everything in Thailand is 100% fantastic :

BUT :

The Thai Customs Department is now FAR more corruption free than it was even just 5 years ago (I deal with them on Imports many times a month) - so I do not really think your complaint about a "Mafia" can in any way be supported.

They based their assessment for Import Duty on the facts - the facts being that you tried to Import something into Thailand under the guise that it was your wifes' personal property when the documentation failed to support that claim, the Customs Department detected the (apparent) attempt to avoid Tax and are now charging Duty at whatever the rate should have been had you Imported it under your own name.

Nor is it at all sensible for you to suggest the Customs Department make the item "disappear" or send it back to the originating Country and expect them to allow that with no penalty. Facts again. You tried to Import something under false pretences - not an exact analogy but suppose you imported illegal drugs and were apprehended at the Airport ..... would you expect to be able to say "Wow, this stuff is illegal in Thailand? Really? OK, sorry you can keep it - or I'll send it back home on the next plane, no play no foul. Can I go now?"?

Finally, you should get a formal Government Receipt for both the Import Duty and the associated VAT - if you do not get that then, yes, you can cry foul but I am willing to bet you will get a Receipt for whatever you eventually have to pay.

Patrick

Edited February 28, 2013 by p_brownstone

[marstons]

the only surprising thing for me is you did not expect this to happen, hind site is a wonderful thing but had you posted about this before doing it plenty who they have stung before would have told you. Have you checked out how to get a green book for it yet? think you will be in for a bigger shock, no matter where it was made its an import now. It will be the most expensive Honda cbr 250 in Thailand or some customs guy is going to have the cheapest cbr 250 in Thailand if you get my drift.

[NeverSure]

Are there Thai lawyers who specialize in this kind of shakedown? and know how to minimize the damage?

Yes, there are plenty of lawyers who specialize in shakedowns, in most countries I know.

[arthurwait]

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=140#Permanent

[lipupfatty]

The motorbike was clearly marked at the top of page 1 on the inventory,so we did'nt try to sneak it in, also the customs officer said my wife was allowed to bring it in,but it had to be in her name,easy to fix with hindsight.

Yes,i tried suggesting it "dissappearing",but they said no can do.

Not wanting to sound like one of those boring old Farang wearing rose tinted glasses and insisting that everything in Thailand is 100% fantastic :

BUT :

The Thai Customs Department is now FAR more corruption free than it was even just 5 years ago (I deal with them on Imports many times a month) - so I do not really think your complaint about a "Mafia" can in any way be supported.

They based their assessment for Import Duty on the facts - the facts being that you tried to Import something into Thailand under the guise that it was your wifes' personal property when the documentation failed to support that claim, the Customs Department detected the (apparent) attempt to avoid Tax and are now charging Duty at whatever the rate should have been had you Imported it under your own name.

Nor is it at all sensible for you to suggest the Customs Department make the item "disappear" or send it back to the originating Country and expect them to allow that with no penalty. Facts again. You tried to Import something under false pretences - not an exact analogy but suppose you imported illegal drugs and were apprehended at the Airport ..... would you expect to be able to say "Wow, this stuff is illegal in Thailand? Really? OK, sorry you can keep it - or I'll send it back home on the next plane, no play no foul. Can I go now?"?

Finally, you should get a formal Government Receipt for both the Import Duty and the associated VAT - if you do not get that then, yes, you can cry foul but I am willing to bet you will get a Receipt for whatever you eventually have to pay.

Patrick

attempting to smuggle drugs and an oversight on paperwork are in slightly different leagues in IMO.

[Beetlejuice]

They aren't making it up. You can't import motor vehicles without paying the tax on the value they put on it (secondhand value in Thailand) the scheme for returning residents being exempt on motor vehicles was scrapped last year or the year before.

You also need permission to import before you ship the vehicle. I assume this applies to motorbikes as well as cars.

There is thread after thread on this matter on this website. You have no choice but to pay and hope they waiver that you didn't have permission to import the bike if it applies to motorbikes.

Edit: and as you know it wasn't your wifes bike so she couldn't import it anyway if the scheme was still in operation. Hope you don't get a big 'fine' on top.

Absolutely right and spot on.

The OP should have done his homework and research prior to shipping the vehicle over.

When I was in the UK and decided to move to Thailand, I wanted to bring my beloved family car over. After I did some research and evaluated what was involved and how much it would have cost me in import taxes and so on, I had to conclude that bringing over the vehicle was just not viable.

Similar rules apply to many countries if bringing stuff over.

[LongTimeLurker]

What's the rest of the shipment worth to you?

If it's not worth the 200k then tell them to keep it (and where they can put it).

If it is then negotiate with them but make it clear that if denurrage fees are mentioned all bets are off.

[arthurwait]

Anyway. Welcome to the land where you either have shedloads of cash or a boring car.

[Khun Jean]

Sending it back would probably cost somewhere around 40.000 baht, i think if you search it can be even cheaper.

I would try to apologize, say that it was a misunderstanding of the rules and try to send it back.

Thai people are much more flexible then the very strict ones in our own countries, and i mean that in a good and helping way.

Are you doing it yourself or is an agent involved.

If there is an agent, take them out of the equation. For me it was the difference between 64.000 and zero.

[astral]

Even if you do get it in I wonder how you will get on trying to register the bike?

That will be the next hurdle.

[DiNiro]

The farang needs to keep out of it and best if the wife can bring in old dad or grandpa or someone of status to close the deal.

[h90]

They aren't making it up. You can't import motor vehicles without paying the tax on the value they put on it (secondhand value in Thailand) the scheme for returning residents being exempt on motor vehicles was scrapped last year or the year before.

You also need permission to import before you ship the vehicle. I assume this applies to motorbikes as well as cars.

There is thread after thread on this matter on this website. You have no choice but to pay and hope they waiver that you didn't have permission to import the bike if it applies to motorbikes.

Edit: and as you know it wasn't your wifes bike so she couldn't import it anyway if the scheme was still in operation. Hope you don't get a big 'fine' on top.

Wasn't the import of second hand vehicles or cars banned a short time ago because of the big abuse?