Seven Dead In East Pattaya Minivan Crash

[HaleySabai]

From many years of riding motorcycles on the highways and bi-ways of Northern Thailand I can say unequivocally that commercial passenger vans are the single most dangerously driven vehicles on the road, the drivers have no-sense of responsibility what so ever. I have numerous near misses with these clowns every time I do a bike trip.....I have at times been so pissed I thought of turning around and following the van to a point where I could bear-spray the air intakes....but that would most likely just get me shot.

NEVER get aboard one of these death-traps.

[nontabury]

Have you EVER driven here ? Perhaps folk in minivans ''survive'' cos US who do drive here and see one of these rides in the mirror IMMEDIATELY get ready for the shit. I have been forced off the road by these so called ''professionals''.

Just to make it clear, I agree that there are some very bad drivers here, of both cars and vans. In fact, many, many more than in the UK. But, they are still in the minority. Yes, I see crazy van drivers. But for each crazy one I see, I see countless others driving safely. If they were ALL as crazy as you make out, then there would be a lot more accidents. With all these crazy drivers you claim are here, how come the death rate is still below the world average? So less deaths here, so driving can't be as bad as you make out.

ํYou obviously do not drive here.

Does anyone else want to back this bloke up that the driving in LOS is OK. ?

Certainly not me. Too much experience driving in Thailand.

[davejones]

Have you EVER driven here ? Perhaps folk in minivans ''survive'' cos US who do drive here and see one of these rides in the mirror IMMEDIATELY get ready for the shit. I have been forced off the road by these so called ''professionals''.

Just to make it clear, I agree that there are some very bad drivers here, of both cars and vans. In fact, many, many more than in the UK. But, they are still in the minority. Yes, I see crazy van drivers. But for each crazy one I see, I see countless others driving safely. If they were ALL as crazy as you make out, then there would be a lot more accidents. With all these crazy drivers you claim are here, how come the death rate is still below the world average? So less deaths here, so driving can't be as bad as you make out.

Errr, look again! 42.9ish road deaths per 100,000 , 6th highest in the world. Mostly caused by mini bus drivers (was left out :-))

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/

6 Thailand 42.9 70

So for every 2,331 people in Thailand, at the end of the year 2,330 won't have been killed in a road accident. 1 will. Sounds like pretty good odds for staying alive to me. I can think of a lot more dangerous things that people willingly do. People just seem overly paranoid about road deaths here. Yes, there are too many, but most people are getting things way out perspective. 2,300 alive for ever 1 dead. Those are the facts based on your figures above. Still one too many of course.

Edited March 2, 2013 by davejones

[rotorbreeze]

I have travel to Cambodia for my visa renewal, my last trip the company said the Van had got in an accident. The driver whom drove us..not packed but 4 passengers and myself. The driver would run red lights, go to the left lane on stop light and speed ahead not turning left. Another time he went right lane, waited and then speed ahead of the traffic..great! I had to admire his need to get us home quickly...but the odds of an accident increased. I now have a retirement Visa and only have to drive myself to immigration to extend my stay.

I trust the Visa Run companies will have to assure passengers that the driver will not go in excessive speed or endanger passengers, a website is needed for future travelers whom can access this site to see what companies provide satisfied customers. Feedback on travelers a MUST for companies whom transport foreigners for Visa Runs. Would ThaiVisa produce such a feedback?...

[gerry53]

I have over 50K kilometeres driving in Thailand and you start thinking Thai driving is "normal" - IT IS NOT. We are currently in Malaysia and it is very easy to get used to the politeness, non aggression, yielding the right of way etc, etc. In Thailand the tourist vans and buses (some better companies do have professionals) are the worst of the worst, many are absolute yaba ridden maniacs who have no regard for anyones lives.

PS - the roads are 5 times better here also.

Edited March 2, 2013 by gerry53

[apetley]

Have you EVER driven here ? Perhaps folk in minivans ''survive'' cos US who do drive here and see one of these rides in the mirror IMMEDIATELY get ready for the shit. I have been forced off the road by these so called ''professionals''.

Just to make it clear, I agree that there are some very bad drivers here, of both cars and vans. In fact, many, many more than in the UK. But, they are still in the minority. Yes, I see crazy van drivers. But for each crazy one I see, I see countless others driving safely. If they were ALL as crazy as you make out, then there would be a lot more accidents. With all these crazy drivers you claim are here, how come the death rate is still below the world average? So less deaths here, so driving can't be as bad as you make out.

Errr, look again! 42.9ish road deaths per 100,000 , 6th highest in the world. Mostly caused by mini bus drivers (was left out :-))

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/

6 Thailand 42.9 70

So for every 2,331 people in Thailand, at the end of the year 2,330 won't have been killed in a road accident. 1 will. Sounds like pretty good odds for staying alive to me. I can think of a lot more dangerous things that people willingly do. People just seem overly paranoid about road deaths here. Yes, there are too many, but most people are getting things way out perspective. 2,300 alive for ever 1 dead. Those are the facts based on your figures above. Still one too many of course.

Those stats are truly horrifying. A death rate very nearly 10 times that of my home country the UK.

People are nearly 10 times more likely to be killed on the roads here than in the UK and the real tragedy is that it could be massively reduced by the enforcing of existing rules.

[davejones]

Have you EVER driven here ? Perhaps folk in minivans ''survive'' cos US who do drive here and see one of these rides in the mirror IMMEDIATELY get ready for the shit. I have been forced off the road by these so called ''professionals''.

Just to make it clear, I agree that there are some very bad drivers here, of both cars and vans. In fact, many, many more than in the UK. But, they are still in the minority. Yes, I see crazy van drivers. But for each crazy one I see, I see countless others driving safely. If they were ALL as crazy as you make out, then there would be a lot more accidents. With all these crazy drivers you claim are here, how come the death rate is still below the world average? So less deaths here, so driving can't be as bad as you make out.

Errr, look again! 42.9ish road deaths per 100,000 , 6th highest in the world. Mostly caused by mini bus drivers (was left out :-))

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/

6 Thailand 42.9 70

So for every 2,331 people in Thailand, at the end of the year 2,330 won't have been killed in a road accident. 1 will. Sounds like pretty good odds for staying alive to me. I can think of a lot more dangerous things that people willingly do. People just seem overly paranoid about road deaths here. Yes, there are too many, but most people are getting things way out perspective. 2,300 alive for ever 1 dead. Those are the facts based on your figures above. Still one too many of course.

Those stats are truly horrifying. A death rate very nearly 10 times that of my home country the UK.

People are nearly 10 times more likely to be killed on the roads here than in the UK and the real tragedy is that it could be massively reduced by the enforcing of existing rules.

True. But it's a developing country. UK also had horrendous traffic death rates when it was less developed. It's only since around 1990 that the numbers have really come down.

Also, UK is very safe these days, so 10 times worse than very safe isn't too bad. Especially for a developing country. If you live in a developing country, then you have to accept that things aren't going to be like back home. They need to change, but that will take a long time. So you'd better get used to it.

[Payboy]

so 10 times worse than very safe isn't too bad

Stop it, you're killing me! Statistically, of course.

[fakename]

Hey, was that some kind of joke, about looking at the Thai passengers, and if they are sleeping, then its a safe driver?? You are certainly in another world. First of all, how many Thai go on visa runs? And did you know, that all Thai sleep as soon as they get in a car, and that sometimes includes the driver!

My gf's brother comes here once a month, gets stinking drunk, then drives 150km back home, with his daughter in the car. No one ever says anything to him about drinking and driving.

Another point, but dont know if its true or not, that Thai traffic fatalities are only counted if the victim dies at the accident, so if that is true, then the total number of fatalities is much higher.

[davejones]

Hey, was that some kind of joke, about looking at the Thai passengers, and if they are sleeping, then its a safe driver?? You are certainly in another world. First of all, how many Thai go on visa runs? And did you know, that all Thai sleep as soon as they get in a car, and that sometimes includes the driver!

My gf's brother comes here once a month, gets stinking drunk, then drives 150km back home, with his daughter in the car. No one ever says anything to him about drinking and driving.

Another point, but dont know if its true or not, that Thai traffic fatalities are only counted if the victim dies at the accident, so if that is true, then the total number of fatalities is much higher.

People drink drive in many countries. In California alone, there were 1,489 road deaths related to alcohol or other drugs. Don't like the way people keep trying to say that Thailand is somehow worse than everywhere else. USA has a horrendous traffic death rate, many times higher than the UK. It's not all that far behind Thailand. So I fail to see why people from the USA find Thailand roads so dangerous. After all, they aren't much worse than back home. Just try to keep things in perspective. Maybe USA needs to work better at enforcing existing laws, just like thailand needs to do.

Have you said anything to your gf's brother?

Edited March 2, 2013 by davejones

[CHANGOVER]

On a few trips to Swampy when a 'normal bus' has not been available and I HAD to take a mini bus, I have slapped and shouted at drivers when they were falling asleep; and the Thai in the front seats didn't answer when I said 'wake him up' they just clambered over the seat to get in the back, shit scared but wouldn't lose face by telling him he was at fault!!! I moved into the front and made sure he stayed awake!

The only time I took a minibus for a visa run we nearly careered over a cliff in Mae Sot with a sleeping/drunk driver at the wheel. I vowed I'd never take another mini bus.

For the past 11 years I have trusted in my own driving!

[Dorkers]

Have you EVER driven here ? Perhaps folk in minivans ''survive'' cos US who do drive here and see one of these rides in the mirror IMMEDIATELY get ready for the shit. I have been forced off the road by these so called ''professionals''.

Just to make it clear, I agree that there are some very bad drivers here, of both cars and vans. In fact, many, many more than in the UK. But, they are still in the minority. Yes, I see crazy van drivers. But for each crazy one I see, I see countless others driving safely. If they were ALL as crazy as you make out, then there would be a lot more accidents. With all these crazy drivers you claim are here, how come the death rate is still below the world average? So less deaths here, so driving can't be as bad as you make out.

Errr, look again! 42.9ish road deaths per 100,000 , 6th highest in the world. Mostly caused by mini bus drivers (was left out :-))

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/

6 Thailand 42.9 70

So for every 2,331 people in Thailand, at the end of the year 2,330 won't have been killed in a road accident. 1 will. Sounds like pretty good odds for staying alive to me. I can think of a lot more dangerous things that people willingly do. People just seem overly paranoid about road deaths here. Yes, there are too many, but most people are getting things way out perspective. 2,300 alive for ever 1 dead. Those are the facts based on your figures above. Still one too many of course.

Those stats are truly horrifying. A death rate very nearly 10 times that of my home country the UK.

People are nearly 10 times more likely to be killed on the roads here than in the UK and the real tragedy is that it could be massively reduced by the enforcing of existing rules.

True. But it's a developing country. UK also had horrendous traffic death rates when it was less developed. It's only since around 1990 that the numbers have really come down.

Also, UK is very safe these days, so 10 times worse than very safe isn't too bad. Especially for a developing country. If you live in a developing country, then you have to accept that things aren't going to be like back home. They need to change, but that will take a long time. So you'd better get used to it.

Davejones, not sure where you got your fatality statistics from , last stat I heard was I think in 2010 there were 12500 deaths.... however that does not include people that died as a result of a crash. It only counts those people that died on the road! if you die 3 weeks later in hospital as a result of your injury it is not counted as a road fatality. So speculation is that the actual road fatality total is around 25000 per year. That does include motor bike crashes not just car accidents.

Speaking of speculation - you keep saying that the crazy drivers are in the minority. There are no stats on that. That is your opinion. In my opinion, and I regulary caught minivans, fortnightly from Bangkok to Chanthaburi for 3 years, is that at least more than half of them drive too fast, tailgate and overtake on double lines,overtake on verges and generally risk take a lot more than the average Thai driver. They don't all crash obviously - but you would have your head completely in the sand if you think that your heart rate doesn't go up when you take a seat in one of these vans. Oh, don't forget no seatbelts to add to the mix.

Most of the posters here in relation to this topic support my opinion, mostly from their own personal experiences from driving on the roads here everyday. Open roads/Highways, not just heading down to Tesco for the shopping.

I now have a car and have driven 50000km's in Thailand over the last 2 years. Mainly runs down to Chanthaburi and incidently on the same road that the last bus crashed. Again, just go for a spin and see how many mini buses you see driving like maniacs, yes along with pickups and mercs and BMW's. But again, these Mini buses have paying customers on board. Their driving skills are severely lacking - more than the minority, I would give it more than half of them are severe risk takers.

When you see two of them racing each other, thats when they really start to push the envelope.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Dorkers

[notime]

The problem is that in most cases the poor travellers have absolutely no choice. I though I was going to avoid speeding, cramped vans but recently came across two scary trips in them.

I boght a ferry/bus ticket from Koh Samui to Suratthani at Seatran jetty. When I arrived at Don Sak after the ferry trip I was confronted with a van instead of the bus. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that was the last ferry of the day, departing 6pm from Samui. There were two vans that looked full with another dozen of people trying to get a seat. I guess they had no tickets as when I produced mine they shown me my place in the van: between the driver and front passanger, kind of on the engine cover. There was no seatbelt for it! But it was late and this was all on offer short of walking to Suratthani that evening. I mildly objected pointing that to the driver and saying I didn't want to seat there but he only responded with ugg .. uggg .. and a total bemusement on his face. The next door passenger who saw me showing there was no seat belt asked me if I was afraid to die. He turned out to be a lawyer but obviously didn't see anything wrong with the van taking passengers at the front seat with no seat belt. Luckily the driver was slow (in every way) and apart from having my bum almost burned we arrived safely at Suratthini 1 hour later.

After landing at Suratthani airport on the way back I approached Panthip Travel desk and bought myself a bus/ferry ticket to Samui for 350 THB. I was than lead to the awaiting mini van. I awkwardly tried to protest asking for the bus but they didn't understand what I was on about. At least this time the van was almost empty and I could seat myself inside like a human being. A few travelers joined later and we promptly took off. Right after the airport gate our prompt departure changed into a full blown car racing with the van doing 130-150 km/h and overtaking all other vehicles on the road. If they happen to be in front of him the driver didn't hesitate to honk so they clear his race-track. It was pure madness and I bet all the other bumping around fellow travellers were thinking exactly what I was thinking: are we going to survive this? but nobody dared to oepn their mouth and ask the driver to slow down. I would ahve done that as I'm not shy but: 1) I remembered the speeding bus from Bangkok that crashed and burned about a year ago approaching Suratthani after reportedly some passengers asked the driver to slow down 2) the driver could not necessary speak English or pretend he didn't 3) by asking him I could have stepped on his foot that could in fact result in him increasing his speed to show how little he cared about his all farang passengers. So, we all sat terrified and I was thinking how easy it is to get ourselves into silly situations like this, without any intent to be in it or way out of it. We arrived 30 minutes before the Don Sak ferry departure time, so there was absolutely no need for this race.

I know it's a long post but in light of the OP I think we should all revalue our approach to these kind of situations and be stronger fighting unscrupulous transportation practices, at least by reporting these cases to each other here.

Edited March 2, 2013 by notime

[retell]

I would like to see governors fitted to Minibuses and Normal Buses, as they sometime drive too fast as well, and a major crackdown by police, but we all know this will never happen, don't we!

>

R.I.P

my condolences to family and friends of the victims.

No suprise it was a minivan.

I'm assume it was on LPG gas. They dont care about safety. Save money on fuel is more important. LlPG is dangerous. Specially the way they do the installations.

had LPG for many yeas and never had a problem... the installation was done to specs.

so is me in holland never heard anything like cillinders coming "loose or airborne" in a collision what i think that due to impact the cillenders got loose and torn the tubes so the valve doesnt know there is a leak ,, and to all the posters that kick the fact that the cillinders where in the same compartment ,,its ok to have it in your trunk of your sedan ??? like that backseat couch gonna give you protection i know iknow do not be smart on tv they will get you for it

[davejones]

On a few trips to Swampy when a 'normal bus' has not been available and I HAD to take a mini bus, I have slapped and shouted at drivers when they were falling asleep; and the Thai in the front seats didn't answer when I said 'wake him up' they just clambered over the seat to get in the back, shit scared but wouldn't lose face by telling him he was at fault!!! I moved into the front and made sure he stayed awake!

The only time I took a minibus for a visa run we nearly careered over a cliff in Mae Sot with a sleeping/drunk driver at the wheel. I vowed I'd never take another mini bus.

For the past 11 years I have trusted in my own driving!

Just take some spare red bull with you next time. Or pay for a decent driver to drive you there.

Not sure what level of service people expect when using a cheap van. Pay cheap, get cheap. If you want to be safe, then pay what you need to. Plenty of decent drivers around. But many won't pay. They prefer to be cheap and then complain.

[CHANGOVER]

WIMP!

He could have killed you all and you wouldn't say anything! Count yourself lucky and next time tell him

CHA CHA!!!

[retell]

Hey, was that some kind of joke, about looking at the Thai passengers, and if they are sleeping, then its a safe driver?? You are certainly in another world. First of all, how many Thai go on visa runs? And did you know, that all Thai sleep as soon as they get in a car, and that sometimes includes the driver!

My gf's brother comes here once a month, gets stinking drunk, then drives 150km back home, with his daughter in the car. No one ever says anything to him about drinking and driving.

Another point, but dont know if its true or not, that Thai traffic fatalities are only counted if the victim dies at the accident, so if that is true, then the total number of fatalities is much higher.

People drink drive in many countries. In California alone, there were 1,489 road deaths related to alcohol or other drugs. Don't like the way people keep trying to say that Thailand is somehow worse than everywhere else. USA has a horrendous traffic death rate, many times higher than the UK. It's not all that far behind Thailand. So I fail to see why people from the USA find Thailand roads so dangerous. After all, they aren't much worse than back home. Just try to keep things in perspective. Maybe USA needs to work better at enforcing existing laws, just like thailand needs to do.

Have you said anything to your gf's brother?

hey to fakename poster YOU dont say any thing about his drunk and drive shame on you

[davejones]

Well, you all seem to agree that vans are very dangerous, so the only suggestion I have for you is to stop using them. Don't say you don't have a choice. You can go home to the safety of your own country. If they are as dangerous as you say they are, then you shouldn't use them at all. You should either use your own car, or book a decent driver in advance for all journeys. Yes, it will cost you more, but better to pay and save your lives. But I'm amazed that so many think they are so dangerous, yet still use them. If I thought they was as dangerous as many of you claim, I would never, ever get in one. But I might get one this week, just to see what you're all talking about. Last time I took one, we drove at a very sedate 90 km/hr, or thereabouts. No dangerous driving, no tailgating, etc. A pretty boring van journey in fact.

[CHANGOVER]

On a few trips to Swampy when a 'normal bus' has not been available and I HAD to take a mini bus, I have slapped and shouted at drivers when they were falling asleep; and the Thai in the front seats didn't answer when I said 'wake him up' they just clambered over the seat to get in the back, shit scared but wouldn't lose face by telling him he was at fault!!! I moved into the front and made sure he stayed awake!

The only time I took a minibus for a visa run we nearly careered over a cliff in Mae Sot with a sleeping/drunk driver at the wheel. I vowed I'd never take another mini bus.

For the past 11 years I have trusted in my own driving!

Just take some spare red bull with you next time. Or pay for a decent driver to drive you there.

Not sure what level of service people expect when using a cheap van. Pay cheap, get cheap. If you want to be safe, then pay what you need to. Plenty of decent drivers around. But many won't pay. They prefer to be cheap and then complain.

Mini bus drivers use Red Bull and Lao Khao to keep awake, I use neither for safety.

As people have stated before I doubt whether you have either driven here or in fact anywhere.

Mini vans are normally the cheapest option, VIP busses are the best and if I have to travel any distance I would take them or usually prefer the safer option and drive myself.

Maybe you are just a Troll.

[retell]

On a few trips to Swampy when a 'normal bus' has not been available and I HAD to take a mini bus, I have slapped and shouted at drivers when they were falling asleep; and the Thai in the front seats didn't answer when I said 'wake him up' they just clambered over the seat to get in the back, shit scared but wouldn't lose face by telling him he was at fault!!! I moved into the front and made sure he stayed awake!

The only time I took a minibus for a visa run we nearly careered over a cliff in Mae Sot with a sleeping/drunk driver at the wheel. I vowed I'd never take another mini bus.

For the past 11 years I have trusted in my own driving!

Just take some spare red bull with you next time. Or pay for a decent driver to drive you there.

Not sure what level of service people expect when using a cheap van. Pay cheap, get cheap. If you want to be safe, then pay what you need to. Plenty of decent drivers around. But many won't pay. They prefer to be cheap and then complain.

or not be wasted yourself and drive the van

[retell]

On a few trips to Swampy when a 'normal bus' has not been available and I HAD to take a mini bus, I have slapped and shouted at drivers when they were falling asleep; and the Thai in the front seats didn't answer when I said 'wake him up' they just clambered over the seat to get in the back, shit scared but wouldn't lose face by telling him he was at fault!!! I moved into the front and made sure he stayed awake!

The only time I took a minibus for a visa run we nearly careered over a cliff in Mae Sot with a sleeping/drunk driver at the wheel. I vowed I'd never take another mini bus.

For the past 11 years I have trusted in my own driving!

Just take some spare red bull with you next time. Or pay for a decent driver to drive you there.

Not sure what level of service people expect when using a cheap van. Pay cheap, get cheap. If you want to be safe, then pay what you need to. Plenty of decent drivers around. But many won't pay. They prefer to be cheap and then complain.

Mini bus drivers use Red Bull and Lao Khao to keep awake, I use neither for safety.

As people have stated before I doubt whether you have either driven here or in fact anywhere.

Mini vans are normally the cheapest option, VIP busses are the best and if I have to travel any distance I would take them or usually prefer the safer option and drive myself.

Maybe you are just a Troll.

sure as hell i like to drive myself ... did just over 150.000 km last year from northeast to the south on a weekly base no problem take my rest every 2 hours sometimes 3 when stuck in bkk traffic

Edited March 2, 2013 by retell

[retell]

On a few trips to Swampy when a 'normal bus' has not been available and I HAD to take a mini bus, I have slapped and shouted at drivers when they were falling asleep; and the Thai in the front seats didn't answer when I said 'wake him up' they just clambered over the seat to get in the back, shit scared but wouldn't lose face by telling him he was at fault!!! I moved into the front and made sure he stayed awake!

The only time I took a minibus for a visa run we nearly careered over a cliff in Mae Sot with a sleeping/drunk driver at the wheel. I vowed I'd never take another mini bus.

For the past 11 years I have trusted in my own driving!

Just take some spare red bull with you next time. Or pay for a decent driver to drive you there.

Not sure what level of service people expect when using a cheap van. Pay cheap, get cheap. If you want to be safe, then pay what you need to. Plenty of decent drivers around. But many won't pay. They prefer to be cheap and then complain.

Mini bus drivers use Red Bull and Lao Khao to keep awake, I use neither for safety.

As people have stated before I doubt whether you have either driven here or in fact anywhere.

Mini vans are normally the cheapest option, VIP busses are the best and if I have to travel any distance I would take them or usually prefer the safer option and drive myself.

Maybe you are just a Troll.

just love your quote at the end of yr posts

just wanna say that

Edited March 2, 2013 by retell

[Dorkers]

Well, you all seem to agree that vans are very dangerous, so the only suggestion I have for you is to stop using them. Don't say you don't have a choice. You can go home to the safety of your own country. If they are as dangerous as you say they are, then you shouldn't use them at all. You should either use your own car, or book a decent driver in advance for all journeys. Yes, it will cost you more, but better to pay and save your lives. But I'm amazed that so many think they are so dangerous, yet still use them. If I thought they was as dangerous as many of you claim, I would never, ever get in one. But I might get one this week, just to see what you're all talking about. Last time I took one, we drove at a very sedate 90 km/hr, or thereabouts. No dangerous driving, no tailgating, etc. A pretty boring van journey in fact.

Well, you all seem to agree that vans are very dangerous, so the only suggestion I have for you is to stop using them. Don't say you don't have a choice. You can go home to the safety of your own country. If they are as dangerous as you say they are, then you shouldn't use them at all. You should either use your own car, or book a decent driver in advance for all journeys. Yes, it will cost you more, but better to pay and save your lives. But I'm amazed that so many think they are so dangerous, yet still use them. If I thought they was as dangerous as many of you claim, I would never, ever get in one. But I might get one this week, just to see what you're all talking about. Last time I took one, we drove at a very sedate 90 km/hr, or thereabouts. No dangerous driving, no tailgating, etc. A pretty boring van journey in fact.

Davejones - what a Pompous attitude.

have ever thought that you could be in a car and the mini bus could hit you? That ever crossed your mind?

as for your cheap seats - get what you pay for theory - you obviously don't have a conscience towards the 1000's of Thai people that have to use these mini buses as they can't afford to have their own transport or a bus trip isn't available.

Good luck with your mini bus trip when you come to Thailand this week.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Dorkers

[steve187]

i have never read such rubbish, do you control the keyboard of does it control you??????????????

The minibus amongst other vehicle need to be governed down to a safe speed, the population of Thailand is the same as the uk, but the death rate is way way above, the drivers of minibus as used on regular numbered routes leave me speechless at some of the stunts they pull whilst driving fare paying passengers from A to B, and as an ex UK road traffic police officer i have seen some bad stunts pulled.

RIP all on board and my thoughts are with the families

True. But it's a developing country. UK also had horrendous traffic death rates when it was less developed. It's only since around 1990 that the numbers have really come down.

Also, UK is very safe these days, so 10 times worse than very safe isn't too bad. Especially for a developing country. If you live in a developing country, then you have to accept that things aren't going to be like back home. They need to change, but that will take a long time. So you'd better get used to it

[davejones]

Well, you all seem to agree that vans are very dangerous, so the only suggestion I have for you is to stop using them. Don't say you don't have a choice. You can go home to the safety of your own country. If they are as dangerous as you say they are, then you shouldn't use them at all. You should either use your own car, or book a decent driver in advance for all journeys. Yes, it will cost you more, but better to pay and save your lives. But I'm amazed that so many think they are so dangerous, yet still use them. If I thought they was as dangerous as many of you claim, I would never, ever get in one. But I might get one this week, just to see what you're all talking about. Last time I took one, we drove at a very sedate 90 km/hr, or thereabouts. No dangerous driving, no tailgating, etc. A pretty boring van journey in fact.

>>Well, you all seem to agree that vans are very dangerous, so the only suggestion I have for you is to stop using them. Don't say you don't have a choice. You can go home to the safety of your own country. If they are as dangerous as you say they are, then you shouldn't use them at all. You should either use your own car, or book a decent driver in advance for all journeys. Yes, it will cost you more, but better to pay and save your lives. But I'm amazed that so many think they are so dangerous, yet still use them. If I thought they was as dangerous as many of you claim, I would never, ever get in one. But I might get one this week, just to see what you're all talking about. Last time I took one, we drove at a very sedate 90 km/hr, or thereabouts. No dangerous driving, no tailgating, etc. A pretty boring van journey in fact.

Davejones - ever thought that you could be in a car and the mini bus could hit you? That ever crossed your mind?

as for your cheap seats - get what you pay for attitude - you obviously don't have a conscience towards the 1000's of Thai people that have to use these mini buses as they can't afford to have their own transport or a bus trip isn't available.

Good luck with your mini bus trip when you come to Thailand this week.

I'm not coming to Thailand this week. I've already been here for 3 years. I do have a conscience as far as poor people go. What I've saying is that farangs than can afford better transport still take what they they claim is the dangerous option because they would rather save a few baht than save their lives. Farangs have a choice, so they should quit complaining all the time.

My gf usually drives me and she is a pretty safe driver. I doubt a van would hit our car because she's aware of what's going on around her. Driving always has risks, but it's pretty easy to avoid the crazy drivers. She's done over 200,000 km in her current car and never had an accident. Not even a minor one. She feels pretty safe driving, and I don't feel any less safe when I'm in the car with her than driving in a safer country like the UK.

Edited March 2, 2013 by davejones

[davejones]

i have never read such rubbish, do you control the keyboard of does it control you??????????????

The minibus amongst other vehicle need to be governed down to a safe speed, the population of Thailand is the same as the uk, but the death rate is way way above, the drivers of minibus as used on regular numbered routes leave me speechless at some of the stunts they pull whilst driving fare paying passengers from A to B, and as an ex UK road traffic police officer i have seen some bad stunts pulled.

RIP all on board and my thoughts are with the families

True. But it's a developing country. UK also had horrendous traffic death rates when it was less developed. It's only since around 1990 that the numbers have really come down.

Also, UK is very safe these days, so 10 times worse than very safe isn't too bad. Especially for a developing country. If you live in a developing country, then you have to accept that things aren't going to be like back home. They need to change, but that will take a long time. So you'd better get used to it

Not being disrespectful here, but why do you choose to live in such a dangerous country? I'm amazed at the general comments on this forum about all things Thai, including how dangerous driving is. But the complainers still live here. If you'd be safer in the UK, then why not live there. This is a genuine question, because I would never live in a country where I fel as unsafe as some on here seem to feel. Surely people should want a better life than feeling so unsafe.

[davejones]

Goodnight, and safe driving.

[Dorkers]

Well, you all seem to agree that vans are very dangerous, so the only suggestion I have for you is to stop using them. Don't say you don't have a choice. You can go home to the safety of your own country. If they are as dangerous as you say they are, then you shouldn't use them at all. You should either use your own car, or book a decent driver in advance for all journeys. Yes, it will cost you more, but better to pay and save your lives. But I'm amazed that so many think they are so dangerous, yet still use them. If I thought they was as dangerous as many of you claim, I would never, ever get in one. But I might get one this week, just to see what you're all talking about. Last time I took one, we drove at a very sedate 90 km/hr, or thereabouts. No dangerous driving, no tailgating, etc. A pretty boring van journey in fact.

>>Well, you all seem to agree that vans are very dangerous, so the only suggestion I have for you is to stop using them. Don't say you don't have a choice. You can go home to the safety of your own country. If they are as dangerous as you say they are, then you shouldn't use them at all. You should either use your own car, or book a decent driver in advance for all journeys. Yes, it will cost you more, but better to pay and save your lives. But I'm amazed that so many think they are so dangerous, yet still use them. If I thought they was as dangerous as many of you claim, I would never, ever get in one. But I might get one this week, just to see what you're all talking about. Last time I took one, we drove at a very sedate 90 km/hr, or thereabouts. No dangerous driving, no tailgating, etc. A pretty boring van journey in fact.

Davejones - ever thought that you could be in a car and the mini bus could hit you? That ever crossed your mind?

as for your cheap seats - get what you pay for attitude - you obviously don't have a conscience towards the 1000's of Thai people that have to use these mini buses as they can't afford to have their own transport or a bus trip isn't available.

Good luck with your mini bus trip when you come to Thailand this week.

I'm not coming to Thailand this week. I've already been here for 3 years. I do have a conscience as far as poor people go. What I've saying is that farangs than can afford better transport still take what they they claim is the dangerous option because they would rather save a few baht than save their lives. Farangs have a choice, so they should quit complaining all the time.

My gf usually drives me and she is a pretty safe driver. I doubt a van would hit our car because she's aware of what's going on around her. Driving always has risks, but it's pretty easy to avoid the crazy drivers. She's done over 200,000 km in her current car and never had an accident. Not even a minor one. She feels pretty safe driving, and I don't feel any less safe when I'm in the car with her than driving in a safer country like the UK.

i note your point in regard to farangs having another seeking different transport options.

i hope that no one ever gets in a crash with a minibus.

Glad you feel safe with your gf behind the wheel and she knows what is going on around her. My driving fear here is being in a situation that you can't control - namely a head on incident as a result of a maniac driver. Sure that can happen anywhere in the world, but our minibus driver friends do not reduce the odds in our favour.

[KunMatt]

Have you EVER driven here ? Perhaps folk in minivans ''survive'' cos US who do drive here and see one of these rides in the mirror IMMEDIATELY get ready for the shit. I have been forced off the road by these so called ''professionals''.

Just to make it clear, I agree that there are some very bad drivers here, of both cars and vans. In fact, many, many more than in the UK. But, they are still in the minority. Yes, I see crazy van drivers. But for each crazy one I see, I see countless others driving safely. If they were ALL as crazy as you make out, then there would be a lot more accidents. With all these crazy drivers you claim are here, how come the death rate is still below the world average? So less deaths here, so driving can't be as bad as you make out.

ํYou obviously do not drive here.

Does anyone else want to back this bloke up that the driving in LOS is OK. ?

He has no idea what he is talking about. I'm guessing he doesn't live here or have family here or he wouldn't be singing about only having a 2300 to 1 chance of them dying a horrific death by some other idiot's carelessness here.

On a daily basis I have to avoid hitting and likely killing people here many times due to their own stupidity or arrogance on the roads. Its only because I anticipate their stupidity and arrogance that I expect them to gamble with their life and my family's lives for the sake of waiting 3 more seconds at a junction, or trying to overtake me on the right side as I am indicating right and just starting to pull off, or they turn without indicating, or indicate without turning, or throw a U turn from the inside lane while I am about to overtake on the outside lane, or a hundred other dumb driving practices I experience here every single day pretty much every minute of driving.

It's no surprise that tourists who come from countries who follow the rules of the road get in so much trouble here.

A majority of locals here drive like maniacs with no regard for other people's safety or lives. For this guy to say otherwise just proves how naiive he is of the way things really are here.

[Dorkers]

i have never read such rubbish, do you control the keyboard of does it control you??????????????

The minibus amongst other vehicle need to be governed down to a safe speed, the population of Thailand is the same as the uk, but the death rate is way way above, the drivers of minibus as used on regular numbered routes leave me speechless at some of the stunts they pull whilst driving fare paying passengers from A to B, and as an ex UK road traffic police officer i have seen some bad stunts pulled.

RIP all on board and my thoughts are with the families

True. But it's a developing country. UK also had horrendous traffic death rates when it was less developed. It's only since around 1990 that the numbers have really come down.

Also, UK is very safe these days, so 10 times worse than very safe isn't too bad. Especially for a developing country. If you live in a developing country, then you have to accept that things aren't going to be like back home. They need to change, but that will take a long time. So you'd better get used to it

Not being disrespectful here, but why do you choose to live in such a dangerous country? I'm amazed at the general comments on this forum about all things Thai, including how dangerous driving is. But the complainers still live here. If you'd be safer in the UK, then why not live there. This is a genuine question, because I would never live in a country where I fel as unsafe as some on here seem to feel. Surely people should want a better life than feeling so unsafe.

Personally, I enjoy living here in Thailand, i in fact feel safer living here than in my home city. No where in the world is perfect, but one element of Thailand that does need improving and does impact on the quality of my lifestyle are the roadways. This thread is an epitome of that very issue.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Dorkers