Are You Part Of The Farang Detritus Layer?

[rsokolowski]

I do not see the issue with Thailand enforcing it's own immigration policy. Try renewing a "tourist visa" repeatedly by crossing a border and then returning to the USA, or most western countries. I don't think you would be able to do that in your home country. A tourist visa is for a tourist not someone that lives there for years at a time. My personal opinion is that the immigration policies of Thailand are overall quite reasonable.

I guess if you are breaking the law and working illegally then enforcing immigration policies might seem unreasonable, but you are wrong.

Edited March 10, 2013 by rsokolowski

[mauGR1]

Why do you want to know about everyone else though? What does it actually have to do with you?

I don't understand why this information is relevant to your interests. If you live here yourself, just enjoy your time here and keep your nose out of other people's business. It'll only get dirty if you don't.

Yep, nobody likes a dirty, nose,

[Ministry of Som Tam]

I think the OP should declare his own financial status before asking for everyone else's.

Afterall the intention of this type of post is usually a wiener gauge.

Not my intention at all Canuckamuck.

I posted to...hopefully...prompt some of those out there...with their heads firmly stuck in the sand...into positive action...

With regard to my own situation, that is clearly recorded in my other posts and threads.

I am a self funded retiree who does not meet the criteria for the Thai retirement visa. It will be many years before I am 50.

And so...I am stuck on a ED visa...because there is no other long stay option available to me.

However, this week, some entirely ridiculous new requirements have been imposed by Phuket immigration for the ED visa.

It is manifestly obvious that these new requirements are aimed squarely at the Russians here in Phuket who are now openly working in restaurants as waiters and waitresses...working as prostitutes on Bangla...driving minibuses...and even busking for loose change at local markets.

So...if you must know...I too am now part of the detritus layer...not because I don't have money...but because I am a long way off 50...and my only long stay Thai visa option is being shut down because of it's abuse by Russians.

I am currently doing my due dilligence on a number of other countries including Cambodia and PI.

Before coming to Thailand to live full time, I only carried out my due dilligence upon issues of lifestyle and infrastructure. In hindsight, that was a significant mistake on my part. In the future, the first thing I will scrutinize prior to relocating to another country will be the simplicity of obtaining, and complying with, a long stay visa.

Lifestyle and infrastructure are entirely irrelevant if maintaining a long stay visa is impossible.

What,you mean like actually learning Thai?

[MAJIC]

Do you know the full meaning of Detritus?

Or is this what you think of your fellow Ex Pats ?

Detritus

n 1 a loose mass of stones,sand,etc.

Produced by the breaking up or

wearing away of rocks.

2 bits and pieces of rubbish

left over from something.

[MAJIC]

Shock, horror, country actually standing up for itself and deciding who should live within its borders, rather than being dictated to by others.

Great well done Thailand, way to go.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to forward this to the UKBA for them to consider.

I feel sure the good citizens of Lampedusa would welcome such an initiative.

Well of course the UK is not allowed to protect it's own borders,everyone including their cat will cry fowl,and stomp off to to the HRC of appeal.

But Thailand is also perfectly within it's rights to control Immigration,as they see fit, IMO.

Edited March 10, 2013 by MAJIC

[rattler]

Its always nice to know if you have worked hard, are honest, maybe not particularly clever that you can earn the title "detritus"

Give me someone like this any day.

[MAJIC]

I think the OP should declare his own financial status before asking for everyone else's.

Afterall the intention of this type of post is usually a wiener gauge.

Is that weiner or whiner?

[MrWorldwide]

I do not see the issue with Thailand enforcing it's own immigration policy. Try renewing a "tourist visa" repeatedly by crossing a border and then returning to the USA, or most western countries. I don't think you would be able to do that in your home country. A tourist visa is for a tourist not someone that lives there for years at a time. My personal opinion is that the immigration policies of Thailand are overall quite reasonable.

I guess if you are breaking the law and working illegally then enforcing immigration policies might seem unreasonable, but you are wrong.

I met a lady in Malaysia who has to fly out with her daughter every 90 days, fly back in and they stamp her passport no problems. The issue in Thailand is that people were rorting the system to work illegally - obviously, Malaysia has sufficient enforcement in place to ensure that this doesn't happen. Both countries have major problems with corruption but clearly the Malaysians have decided that it's better to punish the people who are actually working illegally than treat every new arrival as a potential outlaw. By contrast, the qualification requirements for their MM2H retirement visa are much tougher than Thailand - things really only get easier when you buy a home in Malaysia - making the visa run (ok - visa exemption run ..) much more attractive than it currently is in Thailand.

[Fgis]

Who is the stupid jealous who wasn't smart enough to find a way to stay in Thailand and then call others shxt because they are smarter than him ?

:-)

[JDGRUEN]

I think the OP should declare his own financial status before asking for everyone else's.

Afterall the intention of this type of post is usually a wiener gauge.

Not my intention at all Canuckamuck.

I posted to...hopefully...prompt some of those out there...with their heads firmly stuck in the sand...into positive action...

With regard to my own situation, that is clearly recorded in my other posts and threads.

I am a self funded retiree who does not meet the criteria for the Thai retirement visa. It will be many years before I am 50.

And so...I am stuck on a ED visa...because there is no other long stay option available to me.

However, this week, some entirely ridiculous new requirements have been imposed by Phuket immigration for the ED visa.

It is manifestly obvious that these new requirements are aimed squarely at the Russians here in Phuket who are now openly working in restaurants as waiters and waitresses...working as prostitutes on Bangla...driving minibuses...and even busking for loose change at local markets.

So...if you must know...I too am now part of the detritus layer...not because I don't have money...but because I am a long way off 50...and my only long stay Thai visa option is being shut down because of it's abuse by Russians.

I am currently doing my due dilligence on a number of other countries including Cambodia and PI.

Before coming to Thailand to live full time, I only carried out my due dilligence upon issues of lifestyle and infrastructure. In hindsight, that was a significant mistake on my part. In the future, the first thing I will scrutinize prior to relocating to another country will be the simplicity of obtaining, and complying with, a long stay visa.

Lifestyle and infrastructure are entirely irrelevant if maintaining a long stay visa is impossible.

I read that Panama has created a number of inducements to attract foreign residents... such as easy entry and long stay visas, ability to own property, ability to have a work permit without a hassle (up to you to find the job), ability to start a business, and even obtain resident status... and none of this has anything to do with marriage. Thailand is my first stop - but Panama could become my backup plan.

[Kitsune]

Let's put your theory in practice.

My mate falls into your category : he has an ED visa and lives off his website here.

He has a GF, a 8 months old daughter and provides and lives with a family of 8 members.

If he left they all would be worse off - Not to mention his daughter who would be without father

How is that doing Thailand or anyone else a favor ?

[rct99q]

Lived and worked here since day one legally. Found an employer to sponsor me (convinced them they needed me), started with an imm-b (with wp), met a wonderful woman, got married, marriage visa, still working, paying taxes, buying diapers....holy crap.....sounds to me like I have a life here.....not like back in Ireland where all I did was go to work, got married, paid taxes....

By the way I also went to school and actually learned Thai. But i am not sure what that has to do with an erectile dysfunction (ED) visa??

[Sigurris]

detritus is non-living particulate organic
material (as opposed to dissolved organic material). It typically
includes the bodies or fragments of dead organisms
as well as fecal material.

It always amazes me that there are some posters who continue
to gauge the worth of a human being by their monetary worth. Calling someone
poorer than you, “a piece of s**t” may allow you the illusion of superiority
but it is an illusion.

There are many expats who prefer to struggle here than
struggle at home and an exit strategy won’t help. They will have to go back to
a country reeling from economic meltdown and live a poorer existence than they
live now.

So have a heart, enjoy your money and freedom from worry and
let those who don’t have as much as you get on with their life. They are not
harming you. They are not harming Thailand.

[TommoPhysicist]

How would they know if you were "low net worth" or not?

[simon43]

However, this week, some entirely ridiculous new requirements have been imposed by Phuket immigration for the ED visa

[\quote]

Can you tell me more? I'm just interested to know what these new requirements are.

Simon

[Berkshire]

Let's put your theory in practice.

My mate falls into your category : he has an ED visa and lives off his website here.

He has a GF, a 8 months old daughter and provides and lives with a family of 8 members.

If he left they all would be worse off - Not to mention his daughter who would be without father

How is that doing Thailand or anyone else a favor ?

Let's put your theory to practice....in the USA.

A Mexican illegally enters the US (as millions do every year). Finds work. Raises a family. Builds a life, contributes to the community. If he left, "they would all be worse off" (as you say). Same same, no? Are you sympathetic to illegals in your home country?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Let's put your theory in practice.

My mate falls into your category : he has an ED visa and lives off his website here.

He has a GF, a 8 months old daughter and provides and lives with a family of 8 members.

If he left they all would be worse off - Not to mention his daughter who would be without father

How is that doing Thailand or anyone else a favor ?

Let's put your theory to practice....in the USA.

A Mexican illegally enters the US (as millions do every year). Finds work. Raises a family. Builds a life, contributes to the community. If he left, "they would all be worse off" (as you say). Same same, no? Are you sympathetic to illegals in your home country?

That's a divided issue in the states but a lot of the electorate is very sympathetic to illegals in the US.

It's not a fair comparison because the US is a melting pot that is very accepting of different peoples. Thailand is early in their evolution and still very xenophobic and racist by comparison.

Lots of example of Asians, Hispanics in the US who are elected leaders and successful in business, arts etc and respected by the broad society.

Are their any foreigners elected to Thai leadership or publicly visible business executives who are known and respected by Thai society?

There must be some but I can't think of any.

[Ministry of Som Tam]

To the OP,try The Philippines if you want easier visa rules?Over there you don't even have to go to immigration,never mind leave the country,even on a tourist visa!

You just take it to the travel agents every two months,pay them and collect your passport and visa the next day.You can do this for 16 months before you have to leave the country for as long or as little time as you like,then do it again for another 16 months!

The cost of living and beer is much cheaper there,everyone speaks English and the beaches beat Thailand's beaches hands down and many times over.

Personally I just use the restrictive and convoluted visa laws in Thailand as a great opportunity to go and live in different parts of South-East Asia,to see what they are like.Next on my list will be Vietnam or Cambodia,or possibly back to the Phil's again.Then again there's always Indonesia!

[MrWorldwide]

MOST, I readily admit that I have only spent two weeks in Jakarta and a similar amount of time in Bali, but I'm curious re your experience in Indonesia, esp your experience of their visa system.

[Ministry of Som Tam]

MOST, I readily admit that I have only spent two weeks in Jakarta and a similar amount of time in Bali, but I'm curious re your experience in Indonesia, esp your experience of their visa system.

Indonesia is probably not such a good example as the visa laws are probably more restrictive even than Thailand!You need to have an Indonesian employer or connections to get working visas otherwise I think you have to leave every 60 days.

A great shame as Indonesia really is one of the last great unexplored wilderness left on this planet,with places like Sumatra,Java,Lombok,Bali,Komodo,Flores,Sulawesi,Irian Jaya.With a diversity of animal and plant species found nowhere else on the planet!

[chrisinth]

The changes in your first group were probably brought about by people in the second group (the so called 'detritus' ) taking the p*ss out of the regulations.

On balance I think major changes in the regs have actually helped more foreigners stay. The main ones being reduction of Retirement extension age from 55 to 50 years ago now, and an amazing godsend for the under 50/not married to a Thai brigade, the Ed Visa. I'm surprised that it's still so easily available without much testing .

As far as 'Detritus"

detritus (dɪˈtraɪtəs) —n 1. a loose mass of stones, silt, etc, worn away from rocks 2. an accumulation of disintegrated material or debris 3.

the organic debris formed from the decay of organisms

I am assuming you are using definition 3.

Well I've seen some foreigners looking rough round the edges but I think that's going a bit far.

The ones that look rough round the edges should still be OK. They haven't reached the 'worn away from rocks' stage as denoted in 1. of your definition above.....................

[poanoi]

I didnt study riddles, i studied engineering,

i can confirm i'm part of the below 50 sods and thus subject to the visa hassle

[meatballs]

Tough. I've gotta live somehow. If not Thailand then it's Cambodia or Vietnam. But I'm not living in america anymore. It's gotten too expensive and I just don't like living there.

The problem is the system wants to pay us peanuts but then doesn't want to deal with the refuse(us) it has created. That is totally unfair. If they want to treat us like gypsies so be it. I'll just travel around from country to country with my laptop.

[FunFon]

I'm not sure what is specifically referred to by "the system" or how it created us. My mum created me with a little bit of help from Dad, and neither of them ever made me think the world owes me a living, even the human part of the world is subject to the laws of nature and the fact that for a few decades the West was able to pretend it's anything but dog-eat-dog out there will I'm sure prove to be a very temporary anomaly soon forgotten.

Regarding the OP, I agree that the ease of any given category of trying-to-stay-long-term foreigner goes up and down over the years as capriciously as the wind.

And of course EVERY category expect perhaps PR and full citizen has to pay a "usage fee" for the right to stay here, and nothing wrong with that.

If that expense is significant enough for you to notice, then it's also 100% true that those that run this place would much rather see you go than stay, but fortunately they don't care enough most of the time to try to make sure that those benefiting from our presence at the lower levels are forced to go along with that wish.

And of course those that run this place don't care about any dark-skinned peasants we might be helping, they'd just as soon kick all of them out too if they could but they can't.

I definitely don't see this as a single one-way long-term trend in any one direction, it just goes up and down back and forth.

The biggest difference for me is that none of the above surprises me, nor in fact even bothers me anymore - as with most annoyances in Thailand, it is what it is, don't waste your energy B&Ming about it.

Perhaps you've miscalculated the amount you need to truly "self-fund" (is there any other way?) your retirement? Perhaps you should re-think your strategy with some realistic numbers?

Pretend you'll live to 100, but be physically incapable of earning a living from 70 on.

Maximum return for safe investment taking into account currency fluctuations and inflation is 2%.

Your actual living expenses will increase at least 20% per decade.

You need private health insurance that can't be cut off due to your age, continuously funded your entire life from now on.

Otherwise you're likely to end up so down and out you'll be here on overstay, requiring medical care without even the funds for a ticket home.

[BookMan]

OP, I believe your theory is in action as we speak.

Reading through the thread I have noticed 4 of the members who posted have been banned. Detritus carried off by immigration no doubt!

[rene123]

I actually understood what Phronesis meant when I read the topic. Yes, the Thai authorities are trying to make it difficult for the foreign scammers in Thailand. Unfortunately, that sometimes throws the baby out with the bath water. I try to put everything into perspective. A Thai person of modest means has almost no chance of visiting North America, even as a short time tourist. Canadian and the USA authorities are paranoid that a few of them might sneek away and not return to their home country.Unfortunately, there are just enough of them who do sneek away as an illegal immigrant that it proves the authorities point. It's the same with Thailand. The authorities don't want their generosity abused. Unfortunately, many so called "tourists" do abuse the system and that makes if difficult for the honest folks.

I also understand that many people can manage quite well on limited funds while others have no idea how to budget and plan for the future. A perfect example of that is the 40,000 baht topic. Some people think they need in excess of 150k a month just to get by.

[rene123]

Tough. I've gotta live somehow. If not Thailand then it's Cambodia or Vietnam. But I'm not living in america anymore. It's gotten too expensive and I just don't like living there.

The problem is the system wants to pay us peanuts but then doesn't want to deal with the refuse(us) it has created. That is totally unfair. If they want to treat us like gypsies so be it. I'll just travel around from country to country with my laptop.

I don't really agree with you entirely. There is work in America for those that actually want to work. It is just that many people have made the choice not to get an education that would provide a job with an adequate income. Some people just don't want to go to where the work is.

[FunFon]

Yes, the Thai authorities are trying to make it difficult for the foreign scammers in Thailand.

-

Go a little further - the Thai authorities would prefer to exclude all foreigners that are in their opinion low-income.

I'm assuming you don't include that factor alone as defining "scammers" (even if many would include me, I'm speaking generally).

Hence the capital/income requirements for retirees and those becoming part of a Thai family, and the fact that it's illegal for a company wanting to employ a foreigner to pay taxes based on salaries lower than here - with the notable exception of English teachers, which are serving the interests of the kingdom.

Not saying this is in any way bad policy, IMO fair enough, just sayin'

-

I don't really agree with you entirely. There is work in America for those that actually want to work. It is just that many people have made the choice not to get an education that would provide a job with an adequate income. Some people just don't want to go to where the work is.

-

There are huge sectors of the US population that are not capable of learning the skills necessary to compete effectively in the globalised marketplace, perhaps as high a percentage as in Thailand.

By "effectively" I mean sufficient to earn enough to purchase a basic home, afford reasonable health care, pay for their children's tertiary education and fund a retirement above eating-dog-food subsistence level.

IMO a country as wealthy as the US should allow for that latter definition even among its unskilled workforce, even if such a policy would reduce its international competitiveness.

That part of the population that votes in the US apparently doesn't agree, and those that actually control the political/economic system most certainly don't.

Therefore we will see further continuing - IMO accelerating - decline into third-world conditions of the bottom 50-70%, as a result of conscious policies set by the increasingly wealthy top 1% and 10%.

Not " just sayin' " - IMO this comes pretty close to a definition of evil, a rational euthanasia policy would be more humane. So sending them off to beg in the streets of an increasingly prosperous Asia may well be a middle ground. . .

Edited April 19, 2013 by FunFon

[yourauntbob]

IMO Thailand has a way of selectively enforcing laws. They create a web in which is impossible to fully comply so that should the need come, they can give you the boot. I am not disillusioned to this and am aware that there may come a time that i need to move on to another country or return home. Anyone who believes there is no chance of this happening to them does, as the OP says, have their head in the sand. That being said, I dont believe there is any reason Thailand would want to give me the boot anytime in the near future so long as I do my best to abide by the laws.

My advise to all foreigners, have a back up plan just in case. You probably will not have anything to worry about, but s#!t happens.

[FunFon]

IMO Thailand has a way of selectively enforcing laws. They create a web in which is impossible to fully comply so that should the need come, they can give you the boot.

-

Don't let's us flatter ourselves, the primary purpose for the arbitrary enforcement of overly-complex laws being inherent to the kingdom's "legal system" is to facilitate corruption, arbitrary exercise of power by and on behalf of the real behind-the-scenes PTB that actually run the joint, government officials, police and politicians simply being their puppets just as in most countries around the world..

However this issue within Thailand is 99.99% a Thai-on-Thai problem, nothing to do with foreigners.

The fact that any sufficiently powerful Thai can have almost any of us kicked out, or tossed in the monkey house and prevented from leaving if they prefer, is just a tiny side benefit of the system.

Edited April 19, 2013 by FunFon