Abhisit's Key Goal Is Ousting Thaksin From Politics

[jayboy]

Please try and focus on the topic and avoid personalising the discussion.

You should put that on a post-it note for your fridge.

Thanks for the advice.I will try to do better.I would take it even more seriously if at least one (in his several incarnations on the forum) of those who endorsed your excellent sentiment had not so frequently been suspended or warned for persona abuse of one kind or another.

[rixalex]

Mr Abisit wants to keep Mr Thaksin out of politics, Mr Thaksin wants to keep Mr Abisit out of politics, the ruling party wants to keep everybody out of politics. When is this personal vendetta going to ever stop.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

[jayboy]

Mr Abisit wants to keep Mr Thaksin out of politics, Mr Thaksin wants to keep Mr Abisit out of politics, the ruling party wants to keep everybody out of politics. When is this personal vendetta going to ever stop.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

No, I don't believe that is what being said.The suggestion being made is that politically motivated prosecutions, rigged consititutions, military coups and judicial activism only goes so far.They may delay or frustrate the inevitable but can't stop it altogether - namely the decisive voice of the Thai people.In so many ways the clock is ticking in Thailand and all the signs are the unelected elites are on a long slide downwards.Ultimately the only way to stop Thaksinism (and I am here specifically talking about a meglomaniac manipulation of democracy for personal aggrandisement - wealth and power) is to persuade the Thai people and thus be able to win a fair general election.It means taking the Thai majority seriously which for all his serious faults is what Thaksin did, and is why he is so loved by millions.

I'm not sure Thaksin is now the main issue but in the event of his return he would certainly be arrested, tried and jailed briefly.The alternative and less likely option would be a stand off too appalling to contemplate.

[rixalex]

No, I don't believe that is what being said.The suggestion being made is that politically motivated prosecutions, rigged consititutions, military coups and judicial activism only goes so far.They may delay or frustrate the inevitable but can't stop it altogether - namely the decisive voice of the Thai people.In so many ways the clock is ticking in Thailand and all the signs are the unelected elites are on a long slide downwards.Ultimately the only way to stop Thaksinism (and I am here specifically talking about a meglomaniac manipulation of democracy for personal aggrandisement - wealth and power) is to persuade the Thai people and thus be able to win a fair general election.It means taking the Thai majority seriously which for all his serious faults is what Thaksin did, and is why he is so loved by millions.

I'm not sure Thaksin is now the main issue but in the event of his return he would certainly be arrested, tried and jailed briefly.The alternative and less likely option would be a stand off too appalling to contemplate.

You have responded to a much broader point about how Thailand progresses past Thaksin - assuming Thailand wishes to - and you make some good points, but you do not really address the specific point to which i was responding, and that is, when someone talks about bringing Thaksin back, as CMK did, they really don't mean that at all, do they? How could they? The man has a passport and a private jet.

[rubl]

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

No, I don't believe that is what being said.The suggestion being made is that politically motivated prosecutions, rigged consititutions, military coups and judicial activism only goes so far.They may delay or frustrate the inevitable but can't stop it altogether - namely the decisive voice of the Thai people.In so many ways the clock is ticking in Thailand and all the signs are the unelected elites are on a long slide downwards.Ultimately the only way to stop Thaksinism (and I am here specifically talking about a meglomaniac manipulation of democracy for personal aggrandisement - wealth and power) is to persuade the Thai people and thus be able to win a fair general election.It means taking the Thai majority seriously which for all his serious faults is what Thaksin did, and is why he is so loved by millions.

I'm not sure Thaksin is now the main issue but in the event of his return he would certainly be arrested, tried and jailed briefly.The alternative and less likely option would be a stand off too appalling to contemplate.

The suggestion being made is that Thaksin is totally uninportant, Thailand has moved beyond him, while at the same time our dear politically motivated bail jumper and criminal fugitive is skyping in to tell his cabinet how he wants his country to be run.

He's loved by millions who got handouts, who got indoctrinated, who 'know' Abhisit said "kill me some", etc., etc. He's hated by millions who remember the 'war on drugs', the disasters down South with 'weak from fasting', etc., etc.His lovely sister (Ms. Yingluck that is) is a puppet, his other sister is a mouthpiece, lots of relative being pushed into government and government controlled positions. It's like 2005/2006 again.

The alternative to Thaksin staying away seems to be a return leading to a civil war which would be too appalling to contemplate. Imho, of course

[chiangmaikelly]

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

No, I don't believe that is what being said.The suggestion being made is that politically motivated prosecutions, rigged consititutions, military coups and judicial activism only goes so far.They may delay or frustrate the inevitable but can't stop it altogether - namely the decisive voice of the Thai people.In so many ways the clock is ticking in Thailand and all the signs are the unelected elites are on a long slide downwards.Ultimately the only way to stop Thaksinism (and I am here specifically talking about a meglomaniac manipulation of democracy for personal aggrandisement - wealth and power) is to persuade the Thai people and thus be able to win a fair general election.It means taking the Thai majority seriously which for all his serious faults is what Thaksin did, and is why he is so loved by millions.

I'm not sure Thaksin is now the main issue but in the event of his return he would certainly be arrested, tried and jailed briefly.The alternative and less likely option would be a stand off too appalling to contemplate.

The suggestion being made is that Thaksin is totally uninportant, Thailand has moved beyond him, while at the same time our dear politically motivated bail jumper and criminal fugitive is skyping in to tell his cabinet how he wants his country to be run.

He's loved by millions who got handouts, who got indoctrinated, who 'know' Abhisit said "kill me some", etc., etc. He's hated by millions who remember the 'war on drugs', the disasters down South with 'weak from fasting', etc., etc.His lovely sister (Ms. Yingluck that is) is a puppet, his other sister is a mouthpiece, lots of relative being pushed into government and government controlled positions. It's like 2005/2006 again.

The alternative to Thaksin staying away seems to be a return leading to a civil war which would be too appalling to contemplate. Imho, of course

You only have civil wars if the minority is upset (in most cases). Thaksin comes back and you have democracy. Not the kind of oligarchy that you folks prefer but hey one can't have every thing. Some times the folks in power just don't like the same things you do. The real danger of civil was is in Thaksin not coming back.

[rubl]

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

No, I don't believe that is what being said.The suggestion being made is that politically motivated prosecutions, rigged consititutions, military coups and judicial activism only goes so far.They may delay or frustrate the inevitable but can't stop it altogether - namely the decisive voice of the Thai people.In so many ways the clock is ticking in Thailand and all the signs are the unelected elites are on a long slide downwards.Ultimately the only way to stop Thaksinism (and I am here specifically talking about a meglomaniac manipulation of democracy for personal aggrandisement - wealth and power) is to persuade the Thai people and thus be able to win a fair general election.It means taking the Thai majority seriously which for all his serious faults is what Thaksin did, and is why he is so loved by millions.

I'm not sure Thaksin is now the main issue but in the event of his return he would certainly be arrested, tried and jailed briefly.The alternative and less likely option would be a stand off too appalling to contemplate.

The suggestion being made is that Thaksin is totally uninportant, Thailand has moved beyond him, while at the same time our dear politically motivated bail jumper and criminal fugitive is skyping in to tell his cabinet how he wants his country to be run.

He's loved by millions who got handouts, who got indoctrinated, who 'know' Abhisit said "kill me some", etc., etc. He's hated by millions who remember the 'war on drugs', the disasters down South with 'weak from fasting', etc., etc.His lovely sister (Ms. Yingluck that is) is a puppet, his other sister is a mouthpiece, lots of relative being pushed into government and government controlled positions. It's like 2005/2006 again.

The alternative to Thaksin staying away seems to be a return leading to a civil war which would be too appalling to contemplate. Imho, of course

You only have civil wars if the minority is upset (in most cases). Thaksin comes back and you have democracy. Not the kind of oligarchy that you folks prefer but hey one can't have every thing. Some times the folks in power just don't like the same things you do. The real danger of civil was is in Thaksin not coming back.

To believe that with Thaksin already skyping in his orders to tell his cabinet how his country should be run, democracy would come when he returns is somewhat naive or just plain dumb and misleading. I can't speak for others, but I'm not in favour of an oligarchy. People in power?

The real danger is in Thaksin coming back.

BTW civil war and minorities?I wonder what people in Syria would think of your statement. Of course you might mean the minority of 'real democracy minded' Thaksin lovers who like to emphasize their stance with riots and grenade lobbing

[rixalex]

You only have civil wars if the minority is upset (in most cases). Thaksin comes back and you have democracy. Not the kind of oligarchy that you folks prefer but hey one can't have every thing. Some times the folks in power just don't like the same things you do. The real danger of civil was is in Thaksin not coming back.

Thaksin comes back and you have democracy...

Think i've heard it all now.

At least now i have a better understanding of some of the dogged defenses you have been putting up for various government schemes.

Anyway, still await you addressing your statement "bring him home". Private jet and passport at his disposal, what is to "bring"?

[jayboy]

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

No, I don't believe that is what being said.The suggestion being made is that politically motivated prosecutions, rigged consititutions, military coups and judicial activism only goes so far.They may delay or frustrate the inevitable but can't stop it altogether - namely the decisive voice of the Thai people.In so many ways the clock is ticking in Thailand and all the signs are the unelected elites are on a long slide downwards.Ultimately the only way to stop Thaksinism (and I am here specifically talking about a meglomaniac manipulation of democracy for personal aggrandisement - wealth and power) is to persuade the Thai people and thus be able to win a fair general election.It means taking the Thai majority seriously which for all his serious faults is what Thaksin did, and is why he is so loved by millions.

I'm not sure Thaksin is now the main issue but in the event of his return he would certainly be arrested, tried and jailed briefly.The alternative and less likely option would be a stand off too appalling to contemplate.

The suggestion being made is that Thaksin is totally uninportant, Thailand has moved beyond him, while at the same time our dear politically motivated bail jumper and criminal fugitive is skyping in to tell his cabinet how he wants his country to be run.

He's loved by millions who got handouts, who got indoctrinated, who 'know' Abhisit said "kill me some", etc., etc. He's hated by millions who remember the 'war on drugs', the disasters down South with 'weak from fasting', etc., etc.His lovely sister (Ms. Yingluck that is) is a puppet, his other sister is a mouthpiece, lots of relative being pushed into government and government controlled positions. It's like 2005/2006 again.

The alternative to Thaksin staying away seems to be a return leading to a civil war which would be too appalling to contemplate. Imho, of course

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.As the British politican Enoch Powell, also brilliant but flawed, once correctly commented "all political careers end in failure".

You make a huge mistake if you believe Thaksin's astonishing level of support was primarily based on handouts.I know this is part of the dimbulb propaganda but it doesn't stand up.As Thaksin oriented parties win general elections over and over again, his opponents ought to reflect a little more on the reasons for his success

Millions do not hate Thaksin because of the drugs war.It was in contrast strongly supported by most Thais including the establishment.Some of his enemies subsequently saw it as a way to pursue him after his fall, but no case was ever made.

In the South his involvement was hopeless and he made some stupid and crass remarks.But the criminals were Thai army officers who have never been pursued.In the limited investigations carried out the officers concerned were find not guilty.

I agree the possible disastrous scenario that might follow his unnegotiated return.But there are compromise solutions in which both sides would have to give an take.At present there seems no wish to compromise.

[rubl]

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

No, I don't believe that is what being said.The suggestion being made is that politically motivated prosecutions, rigged consititutions, military coups and judicial activism only goes so far.They may delay or frustrate the inevitable but can't stop it altogether - namely the decisive voice of the Thai people.In so many ways the clock is ticking in Thailand and all the signs are the unelected elites are on a long slide downwards.Ultimately the only way to stop Thaksinism (and I am here specifically talking about a meglomaniac manipulation of democracy for personal aggrandisement - wealth and power) is to persuade the Thai people and thus be able to win a fair general election.It means taking the Thai majority seriously which for all his serious faults is what Thaksin did, and is why he is so loved by millions.

I'm not sure Thaksin is now the main issue but in the event of his return he would certainly be arrested, tried and jailed briefly.The alternative and less likely option would be a stand off too appalling to contemplate.

The suggestion being made is that Thaksin is totally uninportant, Thailand has moved beyond him, while at the same time our dear politically motivated bail jumper and criminal fugitive is skyping in to tell his cabinet how he wants his country to be run.

He's loved by millions who got handouts, who got indoctrinated, who 'know' Abhisit said "kill me some", etc., etc. He's hated by millions who remember the 'war on drugs', the disasters down South with 'weak from fasting', etc., etc.His lovely sister (Ms. Yingluck that is) is a puppet, his other sister is a mouthpiece, lots of relative being pushed into government and government controlled positions. It's like 2005/2006 again.

The alternative to Thaksin staying away seems to be a return leading to a civil war which would be too appalling to contemplate. Imho, of course

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.As the British politican Enoch Powell, also brilliant but flawed, once correctly commented "all political careers end in failure".

You make a huge mistake if you believe Thaksin's astonishing level of support was primarily based on handouts.I know this is part of the dimbulb propaganda but it doesn't stand up.As Thaksin oriented parties win general elections over and over again, his opponents ought to reflect a little more on the reasons for his success

Millions do not hate Thaksin because of the drugs war.It was in contrast strongly supported by most Thais including the establishment.Some of his enemies subsequently saw it as a way to pursue him after his fall, but no case was ever made.

In the South his involvement was hopeless and he made some stupid and crass remarks.But the criminals were Thai army officers who have never been pursued.In the limited investigations carried out the officers concerned were find not guilty.

I agree the possible disastrous scenario that might follow his unnegotiated return.But there are compromise solutions in which both sides would have to give an take.At present there seems no wish to compromise.

Jayboy, there are currently only signs that the Shinawatra dynasty with patriarch Thaksin is stretching and strangling democracy.

Whether Thaksin is loved by millions and hated by other millions doesn't really matter. A figure controversial like that means troubles. He and his family, relatives and cronies enrich themselves while saying to help the poor. That's no longer to be tolerated, however benovalent some say it's being done.

In the South the criminals were not the RTA, but the PM who gave clear orders to solve a problem. Like k. Abhisit/Suthep were charged, remember?

The more Thaksin orders around the less likely a possible compromise is. His stance simply hardens point of views, like you can even see here on this forum which has no (clear) effect on Thailand.

As far as I'm concerned (yes, my opinion) Thaksin could have returned a long time ago already if only he had made good on his statements to get out of politics. That statement was a lie of course, Thaksin knows he needs politics to be able to be succesful in business and become a wee bit more 'Amply Rich'. In the mean time some Thai now really have 300 Baht a day and still wonder how to make ends meet.

Edited March 20, 2013 by rubl

[Buchholz]

You only have civil wars if the minority is upset (in most cases). Thaksin comes back and you have democracy. Not the kind of oligarchy that you folks prefer but hey one can't have every thing. Some times the folks in power just don't like the same things you do. The real danger of civil was is in Thaksin not coming back.

Thaksin comes back and you have democracy...

Think i've heard it all now.

At least now i have a better understanding of some of the dogged defenses you have been putting up for various government schemes.

Anyway, still await you addressing your statement "bring him home". Private jet and passport at his disposal, what is to "bring"?

He has to want to come back. He has stated more than once that he's not interested in doing that.

=================================================================

Thailand's former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra said on Tuesday that policies implemented by his younger sister Yingluck Shinawatra's government will take time to have an effect, while reiterating he has no plans to return to the country

==================================================================

Fugitive former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra said Wednesday he has no plans to return home, following suggestions that the current government headed by his sister may seek to pardon him.

==================================================================

Thai former premier Thaksin Shinawatra said Monday that he has no immediate plans to return home

==================================================================

Edited March 20, 2013 by Buchholz

[rixalex]

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.As the British politican Enoch Powell, also brilliant but flawed, once correctly commented "all political careers end in failure".

Another variation on the "it's not all about the Shinawatras" line that we have been hearing for so many years, and that is each and every year, proven little more than wishful thinking, if it is even that.

[Buchholz]

When Thaksin is out of the picture.

I agree. And the only way he gets out of the picture is to bring him home and defeat him and his party in an election. If you can't do that he will remain a force in Thai politics.

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

.

Otherwise known as the Cousin Chaiyasit Ultimatum....

==========================================================================

Fugitive former PM Thaksin Shinawatra would return to Thailand only if he were exempted from serving time in jail, his cousin retired General Chaiyasit Shinawatra said yesterday.

Chaiyasit added that the opposition Pheu Thai Party would seek royal amnesty for Thaksin if it won the upcoming general elections. "He will only return home if he does not have to serve the jail sentence," he reiterated.

Chaiyasit served as Army Chief and then Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces during Thaksin's reign.

==========================================================================

.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.

Another variation on the "it's not all about the Shinawatras" line that we have been hearing for so many years, and that is each and every year, proven little more than wishful thinking, if it is even that.

.

but, but, but... any day now it will become valid and credible.

.

[rixalex]

Millions do not hate Thaksin because of the drugs war.It was in contrast strongly supported by most Thais including the establishment.Some of his enemies subsequently saw it as a way to pursue him after his fall, but no case was ever made.

..but no case was ever made.

What a terribly convenient place to draw a line under that train of thought. To a new-comer, reading what you wrote above, the impression given would be something quite different from the position i understand you to hold from previous more in depth discussions on this matter. But perhaps i have been misled....

[473geo]

I guess The success of Thaksin has to be attributed to the abysmal failure of his opponents to gain the respect of the electorate in sufficient quantity. The Abhisit platform of 'Thaksin Bad vote for me'.......failed.....the fact that Abhisit and the Democrats do not carry the ability to change course, their inabiity to provide a platform to get elected on their own merit, is possibly quite a significant factor in their continued failed relationship with many of the electorate.

[jayboy]

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.As the British politican Enoch Powell, also brilliant but flawed, once correctly commented "all political careers end in failure".

Another variation on the "it's not all about the Shinawatras" line that we have been hearing for so many years, and that is each and every year, proven little more than wishful thinking, if it is even that.

It is sometimes necessary to hold more than one thought in one's head at a time.Yes the Shinawatras are dominant now.But the political revolution Thaksin instigated will be important long after he and his family have faded from the scene

[Roadman]

I guess The success of Thaksin has to be attributed to the abysmal failure of his opponents to gain the respect of the electorate in sufficient quantity. The Abhisit platform of 'Thaksin Bad vote for me'.......failed.....the fact that Abhisit and the Democrats do not carry the ability to change course, their inabiity to provide a platform to get elected on their own merit, is possibly quite a significant factor in their continued failed relationship with many of the electorate.

Its difficult to build a relationship hand out the ฿500 on election Khwai numbers buying day when the Red thugs are there to deal to you.

[Buchholz]

Please try and focus on the topic and avoid personalising the discussion.

You should put that on a post-it note for your fridge.

Thanks for the advice.I will try to do better.

.

Try harder.

.

It is sometimes necessary to hold more than one thought in one's head at a time.

[jayboy]

Please try and focus on the topic and avoid personalising the discussion.You should put that on a post-it note for your fridge.Thanks for the advice.I will try to do better..Try harder. .It is sometimes necessary to hold more than one thought in one's head at a time.

Not clear what your problem is.It is undeniably important to hold in ones mind several sometimes competing pieces of evidence when considering a proposition.

However if one's mental processes are swamped by an overriding one track obsession,I can see the concept of reasoning out the truth might be a rather alien concept to grasp.

[Pimay1]

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.As the British politican Enoch Powell, also brilliant but flawed, once correctly commented "all political careers end in failure".

Another variation on the "it's not all about the Shinawatras" line that we have been hearing for so many years, and that is each and every year, proven little more than wishful thinking, if it is even that.

It is sometimes necessary to hold more than one thought in one's head at a time.Yes the Shinawatras are dominant now.But the political revolution Thaksin instigated will be important long after he and his family have faded from the scene

Ferdinand Emmanuel Edralin Marcos comes to mind. While in power he implemented wide-ranging programs of infrastructure development and economic reform. However, his administration was marred by massive corruption, political repression, and human rights violations. It was discovered that, during his 20 years in power, he and his wife Imelda Marcos had moved billions of dollars of embezzled public funds to accounts and investments in the United States, Switzerland, and other countries.

[waza]

What do you mean by bring him home? He has a private jet and could be back in time for lunch if he wished. The only person who is stopping him from returning is himself. It seems that even having a sister as PM and a brother in law as head of police isn't sufficient assurance for him of being able to control the cases against him. I think he is waiting for an absolute cast-iron guarantee that he will be above the law with regards all of his past actions.

I think therefore that when you say bring him back, what you are actually saying in effect is give him a complete whitewash.

No, I don't believe that is what being said.The suggestion being made is that politically motivated prosecutions, rigged consititutions, military coups and judicial activism only goes so far.They may delay or frustrate the inevitable but can't stop it altogether - namely the decisive voice of the Thai people.In so many ways the clock is ticking in Thailand and all the signs are the unelected elites are on a long slide downwards.Ultimately the only way to stop Thaksinism (and I am here specifically talking about a meglomaniac manipulation of democracy for personal aggrandisement - wealth and power) is to persuade the Thai people and thus be able to win a fair general election.It means taking the Thai majority seriously which for all his serious faults is what Thaksin did, and is why he is so loved by millions.

I'm not sure Thaksin is now the main issue but in the event of his return he would certainly be arrested, tried and jailed briefly.The alternative and less likely option would be a stand off too appalling to contemplate.

The suggestion being made is that Thaksin is totally uninportant, Thailand has moved beyond him, while at the same time our dear politically motivated bail jumper and criminal fugitive is skyping in to tell his cabinet how he wants his country to be run.

He's loved by millions who got handouts, who got indoctrinated, who 'know' Abhisit said "kill me some", etc., etc. He's hated by millions who remember the 'war on drugs', the disasters down South with 'weak from fasting', etc., etc.His lovely sister (Ms. Yingluck that is) is a puppet, his other sister is a mouthpiece, lots of relative being pushed into government and government controlled positions. It's like 2005/2006 again.

The alternative to Thaksin staying away seems to be a return leading to a civil war which would be too appalling to contemplate. Imho, of course

You only have civil wars if the minority is upset (in most cases). Thaksin comes back and you have democracy. Not the kind of oligarchy that you folks prefer but hey one can't have every thing. Some times the folks in power just don't like the same things you do. The real danger of civil was is in Thaksin not coming back.

Oligarchy 1] is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people.

A bit like what we have now with the Shinewatra clan. I would prefer a socialist government.

[Sing_Sling]

You only have civil wars if the minority is upset (in most cases). Thaksin comes back and you have democracy. Not the kind of oligarchy that you folks prefer but hey one can't have every thing. Some times the folks in power just don't like the same things you do. The real danger of civil was is in Thaksin not coming back.

Oligarchy 1] is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people.

A bit like what we have now with the Shinewatra clan. I would prefer a socialist government.

Except of course that Thailand is a democracy and not an oligarchy . . . Didn't another party hold power until recently and previous to the Thaksin years, putting paid to your assertion?

[waza]

You only have civil wars if the minority is upset (in most cases). Thaksin comes back and you have democracy. Not the kind of oligarchy that you folks prefer but hey one can't have every thing. Some times the folks in power just don't like the same things you do. The real danger of civil was is in Thaksin not coming back.

Oligarchy 1] is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people.

A bit like what we have now with the Shinewatra clan. I would prefer a socialist government.

Except of course that Thailand is a democracy and not an oligarchy . . . Didn't another party hold power until recently and previous to the Thaksin years, putting paid to your assertion?

I think 3 of the last 5 PMs have been Shinawartras and 4 of the last 5 have been Thaksin governments, plus a coup government.

[yoshiwara]

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.As the British politican Enoch Powell, also brilliant but flawed, once correctly commented "all political careers end in failure".

Another variation on the "it's not all about the Shinawatras" line that we have been hearing for so many years, and that is each and every year, proven little more than wishful thinking, if it is even that.

It is sometimes necessary to hold more than one thought in one's head at a time.Yes the Shinawatras are dominant now.But the political revolution Thaksin instigated will be important long after he and his family have faded from the scene

But since your one thought is sneaking a pro-Thaksin agenda in as the long term project (and today on the menu we have the 'I don't support Thaksin but'... and two veg) the twists and turns of additional thoughts holding it all together must be a little stressful at times.

Edited March 21, 2013 by yoshiwara

[jayboy]

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.As the British politican Enoch Powell, also brilliant but flawed, once correctly commented "all political careers end in failure".

Another variation on the "it's not all about the Shinawatras" line that we have been hearing for so many years, and that is each and every year, proven little more than wishful thinking, if it is even that.

It is sometimes necessary to hold more than one thought in one's head at a time.Yes the Shinawatras are dominant now.But the political revolution Thaksin instigated will be important long after he and his family have faded from the scene

But since your one thought is sneaking a pro-Thaksin agenda in as the long term project (and today on the menu we have the 'I don't support Thaksin but'... and two veg) the twists and turns of additional thoughts holding it all together must be a little stressful at times.

My "one thought" is sneaking in a pro-Thaksin agenda? Really?

Is that really my "one thought"? Sometimes a nuanced approach to problems makes more sense than any other way.

But what do you mean by a "pro-Thaksin agenda"? Unless you can articulate this clearly your post is simply another usual suspects rant, a pity really.

If you mean do I admire Thaksin, call for his return to Thailand, and seek for the charges against him to be dropped - then you are wrong on all counts.

If you mean he is a highly significant political figure who has permanently changed the Thai political landscape, then you are right.

But I don't really know what you mean.If you want to explain rationally I will do my best to address the matter.If you don't, I daresay I can struggle on regardless.

But as a piece of friendly advice I don't think mocking the "I don't like Thaksin but.." line really cuts it any more as a debating point.I only mention it because you so frequently use it.

It really only makes sense if you believe that all Thailand's problems were caused by - and are embodied - in one man, and that people who take a different view are driven by some mysterious underlying agenda.

[waza]

Obviously Thaksin is currently extremely influential now.Since the people of Thailand recently voted in a government intimately associated with him, this is scarcely surprising.But in the medium term he will become personally less important.As the British politican Enoch Powell, also brilliant but flawed, once correctly commented "all political careers end in failure".

Another variation on the "it's not all about the Shinawatras" line that we have been hearing for so many years, and that is each and every year, proven little more than wishful thinking, if it is even that.

It is sometimes necessary to hold more than one thought in one's head at a time.Yes the Shinawatras are dominant now.But the political revolution Thaksin instigated will be important long after he and his family have faded from the scene

But since your one thought is sneaking a pro-Thaksin agenda in as the long term project (and today on the menu we have the 'I don't support Thaksin but'... and two veg) the twists and turns of additional thoughts holding it all together must be a little stressful at times.

My "one thought" is sneaking in a pro-Thaksin agenda? Really?

Is that really my "one thought"? Sometimes a nuanced approach to problems makes more sense than any other way.

But what do you mean by a "pro-Thaksin agenda"? Unless you can articulate this clearly your post is simply another usual suspects rant, a pity really.

If you mean do I admire Thaksin, call for his return to Thailand, and seek for the charges against him to be dropped - then you are wrong on all counts.

If you mean he is a highly significant political figure who has permanently changed the Thai political landscape, then you are right.

But I don't really know what you mean.If you want to explain rationally I will do my best to address the matter.If you don't, I daresay I can struggle on regardless.

But as a piece of friendly advice I don't think mocking the "I don't like Thaksin but.." line really cuts it any more as a debating point.I only mention it because you so frequently use it.

It really only makes sense if you believe that all Thailand's problems were caused by - and are embodied - in one man, and that people who take a different view are driven by some mysterious underlying agenda.

I think you have 2 thoughts.

1. Pushing a pro-cult of thaksin agenda

2. Look at my Munchausen Syndrome

PS: "But as a piece of friendly advice...Unless you can articulate this clearly"..................ar·tic·u·late

1. Endowed with the power of speech.

2. Composed of distinct, meaningful syllables or words, as human speech.

3. To pronounce distinctly and carefully; enunciate.

This is a written forum you cant articulate on it.

Edited March 22, 2013 by waza

[Zolt]

Meh, enough with that. Thaksin may be the devil himself and this government his lapdogs, the people of Thailand still voted for them. They stay in power until the next election, and that's all there is to it.

[Sing_Sling]

I find it both humorous and a little sad that foreigners in Thailand get so engaged in the political inadequacies and structure of the place.

If anyone doesn't condemn Thaksin outright as a preface to any post about politics they will be branded 'Pro-Thaksin' . . . quite ludicrous and childish.

This says it best:

Meh, enough with that. Thaksin may be the devil himself and this government his lapdogs, the people of Thailand still voted for them. They stay in power until the next election, and that's all there is to it.

[rixalex]

Meh, enough with that. Thaksin may be the devil himself and this government his lapdogs, the people of Thailand still voted for them. They stay in power until the next election, and that's all there is to it.

The basis of the argument you are making is that essentially, the act of being voted in to power, or put another way, the act of being popular, over-rides and out-trumps everything else. Ergo, even if a convicted on the run overseas criminal is running the country, and even if there is a law that stipulates this situation breaks the law, law must take a back seat to popularity.

Reminds me of the sort of attitude amongst judges back in 2001 that started all this nonsense.