Richard-BKK Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 With all the talk about bad quality Chinese products you not read much about problems with regular motorcycles. One of the problems you can hear modern Honda Wave125i owners complain about it a funny metallic pinging/clinging in the cylinder head. Also the same series of Honda Wave125i's has a problem with the crankshaft bearings... “they can fail under stress..” to quote a Honda mechanic. The problem is that in some Honda Wave125i's the crankshaft needle bearing is only 24.68mm, Honda fixed the problem with the crankshaft needle bearings to replace them with 26.77mm needle bearings. If you own a Honda Wave125i from the older “KFL” version you cannot simple replace the needle bearings, first problem is that Honda doesn't follow Industry standards so you cannot buy the bearings anywhere else than a Honda parts center. Second, to accommodate the larger bearing Honda had to change a good amount of other parts, the crankshaft assembly and most parts connecting are different. Also with the new Honda Wave125i engine, Honda finally fixes the annoying metallic sound that some owners complain about. They changed the camshaft chain guide from a few nylon strips to a wheel based camshaft chain guide and chain tensioner... So if you buy a new or secondhand Honda Wave125i, make sure you buy a KVB model, and not the KFL model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 So if you buy a new or secondhand Honda Wave125i, make sure you buy a KVB model, and not the KFL model. Richard what does this KVB/KFL mean? Is it origin of manufacture? How do you identify which version you have? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Tomazi Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I owned a 125i for about a year and had no problems with it whatsoever. Before that I had a Wave 110 I bought new. I put about 65,000km on it in nine years. I ahd a problem with it, I had to get two spark plugs within a month. My guess is the first replacement waqs the wrong plug. No problems after that. The speedo broke down at 60,000km because of sand in the cable. The bike was totally submerged in a flood years before that. That the speedo worked that long with sand in the cable tells me that Honda uses top-of-the-line components. No product is perfect, and to imply that Honda is low quality because a model shows problems because of a bearing that are a millimeter off is ridiculous. Using that fact to make a point that Chinese products are not that bad and Honda's are not that good is even more ridiculous. I wouldn't even mention "Chinese products". And "Honda" in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 You can distinct the two different model by the parts numbers they use, I believe it's also mentioned on the manual and other locations on the motorcycle. @Rolo Tomazi, for instance the Lifan 125cc engine which look similar to the Honda Wave engine first uses international standard needle bearings for the crankshaft, which means you can buy them in several qualities from any bearing manufacturer you want... Second, the size of the bearings used in the Lifan 125cc engine are in size more comparable to the latest Honda Wave125i crankshaft bearings.... To be clear I not say that the Lifan engine is better, nor do I say that the Honda Wave 125 is bad motorcycle, actually the Honda Wave series is a marvelous motorcycle... it is just one model that is a bad apple... To everybody else I'm talking about one model of the Honda Wave 125i, which is the KFL, or sometimes also called version 3. I also include a picture from Honda to show the difference in bearings.... The second picture shows the old KFL and the new KVB camshaft chain guide and tensioner.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Poorly disguised spam. If talking up Chinese bikes hasn't worked, start talking down the quality/reliability of the Honda Wave . I see what you did there, now where's that GPX dealer disappeared to, I need to buy a Diper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Poorly disguised spam. If talking up Chinese bikes hasn't worked, start talking down the quality/reliability of the Honda Wave . I see what you did there, now where's that GPX dealer disappeared to, I need to buy a Diper... Actually, the quality of the Honda Wave 125i is excellent, still we cannot escape the truth that it is best buy the latest Honda Wave 125i “KVB” (or version 4) model. If you want to ignore my advice you free to do so... Comparing the not road legal off-road GPX Diper 125 with a road legal street motorcycle step-through Honda Wave 125i is a bit weird, but I have seen stranger things so if you want to buy or not buy a GPX Diper you are free to do so... It doesn't change the fact that the bearings in one model Honda Wave 125 are a bit weak.... Edited March 14, 2013 by Richard-BKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Poorly disguised spam. If talking up Chinese bikes hasn't worked, start talking down the quality/reliability of the Honda Wave . I see what you did there, now where's that GPX dealer disappeared to, I need to buy a Diper... Actually, the quality of the Honda Wave 125i is excellent, still we cannot escape the truth that it is best buy the latest Honda Wave 125i “KVB” (or version 4) model. If you want to ignore my advice you free to do so... Comparing the not road legal off-road GPX Diper 125 with a road legal street motorcycle step-through Honda Wave 125i is a bit weird, but I have seen stranger things so if you want to buy or not buy a GPX Diper you are free to do so... It doesn't change the fact that the bearings in one model Honda Wave 125 are a bit weak.... I was comparing the quality of bike, not the style of bike. The first line of this thread sums up your agenda perfectly. Anyway, carry on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 I have wave 125i, but cannot find any reference to the type numbers mentioned above. Model number ends in MSFC. My manual is for both the msfc and the ksfc model. I do know it already had one major part failure, repaired under warranty. It also starts to develop rattles and noises at certain engine speeds. The speedo cable alread had to be replaced. Current mileage is 19000km. All in all not so happy with the wave. My old click (forward) did 50000 km totally issue free. No shakes, no rattles, no problems. Replaced 1 bearing in the rear gear, didn't fail but became noisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 I have wave 125i, but cannot find any reference to the type numbers mentioned above. Model number ends in MSFC. My manual is for both the msfc and the ksfc model. I do know it already had one major part failure, repaired under warranty. It also starts to develop rattles and noises at certain engine speeds. The speedo cable alread had to be replaced. Current mileage is 19000km. All in all not so happy with the wave. My old click (forward) did 50000 km totally issue free. No shakes, no rattles, no problems. Replaced 1 bearing in the rear gear, didn't fail but became noisy. Nope I not believe your model is effected... The rattle and noises that come from your cylinder head have to do with the old style camshaft chain guide and tensioner.. (which your model also uses) Still this noise is sometimes a bit annoying but completely harmless (as long you regularly service the motorcycle as described in the manual.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Lets stop comparing the crankshaft bearings of the Honda Wave125i “KFL” model with Chinese, engines. If any moderator want to remove all the references to anything Chinese I'm fine with that, as this has absolutely nothing to do with anything else than one model of the Honda Wave125i. If anybody wants to compare the bearings to other manufacturers, we can select similar engines from Suzuki, Yamaha, or even Kawasaki. Yes, even Kawasaki has an engine similar to the Honda Wave, they use this engine in the KSR110, even the Kawasaki KSR110 is only an 110cc engine it can easily handle stress produced by an 189cc big-bore kit... The Honda Wave 125i was designed for a maximum load of 170kg, and while most Thai riders will never exceed the maximum load, a foreigner sometimes riding with his buddy to the pub will probably come much closer and stress the engine beyond design specifications.... The factor increases when owners modify the motorcycle with aftermarket exhaust pipes, use sport/race gaskets, or use any other aftermarket parts to increase performance... Edited March 14, 2013 by Richard-BKK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokerkid Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) honda wave's (and dreams) are very reliable bikes. i love them and had 6 or so in the last 10 years just to use as a simple runaround next to my other bike. In 4 of those bikes i had to replace the swingarm because they all rust away at the exact same place where the chain protector is. The local mechanic here has a stock of 10 spare swingarms, i wonder why........ to be fair, i live close to the beach so all bikes here get hammered but only the wave has this swingarm problem. Still i keep buying them, nothing else comes close and a swingarm only costs 700 baht. it takes a while for this rusting process, i bought most of the bikes second hand so they had been exposed to the elements for a while. Edited March 14, 2013 by pokerkid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 (edited) Poorly disguised spam. If talking up Chinese bikes hasn't worked, start talking down the quality/reliability of the Honda Wave . I see what you did there, now where's that GPX dealer disappeared to, I need to buy a Diper... Actually, the quality of the Honda Wave 125i is excellent, still we cannot escape the truth that it is best buy the latest Honda Wave 125i “KVB” (or version 4) model. If you want to ignore my advice you free to do so... Comparing the not road legal off-road GPX Diper 125 with a road legal street motorcycle step-through Honda Wave 125i is a bit weird, but I have seen stranger things so if you want to buy or not buy a GPX Diper you are free to do so... It doesn't change the fact that the bearings in one model Honda Wave 125 are a bit weak.... I was comparing the quality of bike, not the style of bike. The first line of this thread sums up your agenda perfectly. Anyway, carry on... If somebody who knows nothing about motorcycles would compare the quality of the finishing of a Honda CRF250R, which cost 310,000 THB, with the much cheaper Honda CRF250L, they would probably say that the Honda CRF250L is a much better bike... Edited March 14, 2013 by Richard-BKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Poorly disguised spam. If talking up Chinese bikes hasn't worked, start talking down the quality/reliability of the Honda Wave . I see what you did there, now where's that GPX dealer disappeared to, I need to buy a Diper... Actually, the quality of the Honda Wave 125i is excellent, still we cannot escape the truth that it is best buy the latest Honda Wave 125i “KVB” (or version 4) model. If you want to ignore my advice you free to do so... Comparing the not road legal off-road GPX Diper 125 with a road legal street motorcycle step-through Honda Wave 125i is a bit weird, but I have seen stranger things so if you want to buy or not buy a GPX Diper you are free to do so... It doesn't change the fact that the bearings in one model Honda Wave 125 are a bit weak.... I was comparing the quality of bike, not the style of bike. The first line of this thread sums up your agenda perfectly. Anyway, carry on... If somebody who knows nothing about motorcycles would compare the quality of the finishing of a Honda CRF250R, which cost 310,000 THB, with the much cheaper Honda CRF250L, they would probably say that the Honda CRF250L is a much better bike... That's extremely obvious, but what does it have to do with my post? A Honda Wave is in the same price bracket as the Chinese bikes. And yet the Honda has much better quality. Your spamming of poorly made Chinese bikes isn't working so now you are pointing out a very minor issue with one of the most reliable, economic and best sold bikes ever made in an attempt to justify the plethora of issues with the Chinese bikes that you promote via the forum. It's pretty transparent as your first sentence in this thread demonstrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 That's extremely obvious, but what does it have to do with my post? A Honda Wave is in the same price bracket as the Chinese bikes. And yet the Honda has much better quality. Your spamming of poorly made Chinese bikes isn't working so now you are pointing out a very minor issue with one of the most reliable, economic and best sold bikes ever made in an attempt to justify the plethora of issues with the Chinese bikes that you promote via the forum. It's pretty transparent as your first sentence in this thread demonstrates. ------- I'm not spamming anything, is anything I said here not true? And everybody with only a little bit mechanical knowledge will acknowledge that the failure of a crankshaft bearing will do major damage, often beyond reparable damage, to an engine... Even the Honda Wave 110i has a crankshaft bearing that can handle more stress than the bearing you can find in the Honda Wave 125i KFL model. The problem has nothing to do with any other model Honda Wave125, and taking into account all the numbers of Honda Wave 125 sold, we can say that this problem is marginal, it will probably not even statistically change the failure rate of the Honda Wave 125 as a model... Still if you have one of this motorcycles, still in warranty, you would be happy to know that something can go wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserlazer Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 richard, i am sure you know the story about the 'Liar Shepherd' You say lots of things about Chinese bikes out of truth here so of course people do not believe what you say about honda Wave now:) i will keep in mind what you are saying though as a matter of precaution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 richard, i am sure you know the story about the 'Liar Shepherd' You say lots of things about Chinese bikes out of truth here so of course people do not believe what you say about honda Wave now:) i will keep in mind what you are saying though as a matter of precaution. As far as I can see only the people who see Chinese motorcycles as crap criticize this post. I have no problems with that, this forum thread has nothing to do with Chinese motorcycles.... The Honda Wave 125i with PGM-FI as we know it today, is the 4th generation. The crankshaft bearings are fine in all versions with exception of version 3, which is specified as KFL As far as it go's for liars, I bet that people are more shocked about your activities, using a picture from a deathly accident and claiming that the motorcycle was Chinese made while in fact it was Japanese... that is disgusting Still it has little to nothing to do with the Honda Wave 125i we talking about here.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserlazer Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 richard, i am sure you know the story about the 'Liar Shepherd' You say lots of things about Chinese bikes out of truth here so of course people do not believe what you say about honda Wave now:) i will keep in mind what you are saying though as a matter of precaution. As far as I can see only the people who see Chinese motorcycles as crap criticize this post. I have no problems with that, this forum thread has nothing to do with Chinese motorcycles.... The Honda Wave 125i with PGM-FI as we know it today, is the 4th generation. The crankshaft bearings are fine in all versions with exception of version 3, which is specified as KFL As far as it go's for liars, I bet that people are more shocked about your activities, using a picture from a deathly accident and claiming that the motorcycle was Chinese made while in fact it was Japanese... that is disgusting Still it has little to nothing to do with the Honda Wave 125i we talking about here.. Old food again richard? As i stated, i have no gains here to lie as i am not working for honda etc. But you have reasons and gain to do that as you work for chinese:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard-BKK Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 richard, i am sure you know the story about the 'Liar Shepherd' You say lots of things about Chinese bikes out of truth here so of course people do not believe what you say about honda Wave now:) i will keep in mind what you are saying though as a matter of precaution. As far as I can see only the people who see Chinese motorcycles as crap criticize this post. I have no problems with that, this forum thread has nothing to do with Chinese motorcycles.... The Honda Wave 125i with PGM-FI as we know it today, is the 4th generation. The crankshaft bearings are fine in all versions with exception of version 3, which is specified as KFL As far as it go's for liars, I bet that people are more shocked about your activities, using a picture from a deathly accident and claiming that the motorcycle was Chinese made while in fact it was Japanese... that is disgusting Still it has little to nothing to do with the Honda Wave 125i we talking about here.. Old food again richard? As i stated, i have no gains here to lie as i am not working for honda etc. But you have reasons and gain to do that as you work for chinese:lol: I surely not work for a Chinese company today, I think the last contract with a Chinese owned company ended 2 or 1.5 years ago... If I'm correct we have currently two active contracts and both companies produce vehicles in Thailand (not any Chinese or related brand names). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserlazer Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 well, i am sure these companies are just assembling parts coming from China and selling them like Thai bikes then? look richard, i do not care where you work, it does not matter for anyone too. I respect you sometime as well, i downloaded the English manual for my cbr500 from your website man which i was desperately looking for it, there are good things you are doing. But, just be honest with us man and no problems. We are not stupid here after all. And maybe what you are saying here about wave is true but once you lose some credibility, you need time to gain it back. Still, as i stated, i will keep your words in my mind about wave as i am a septic guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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