Should Foreigners (Permanent Residents) Contribute To A Change?

[tropico]

Hi

I was just curious to know what people thought about the possible involvement of foreigners in actively change the things they don't like or they perceive not adequate in Chiang mai for example. I am not a senior member of this forum and do not participate very actively to discussions but I did notice in many occasions that people (myself as well) complained about many things but I am not sure if anything is done to facilitate a change!

So the question is:" should foreigners (permanent residents) get involved in issues that affect them as well? Should we have a say or should we just accept and mostly complain without any results and be treated as permanent tourists?

Thanks to all

[Morakot]

What would you like to actively change?

[hellodolly]

What would you like to actively change?

And how would you propose going about it.

The first thing in my opinion would be to present it in such a manner as the Thais would think it was not some thing they are doing wrong. It would have to be presented in such a manner as they would think it was there idea. At least that is my opinion.

The one worry I have is they would make it hard on us to stay here. The immigration process is OK it is just what if they started to add other qualifications.

But I probably read to much Thai Visa. It for sure is not loaded down with positive thoughts about how the Thais see us.

[tropico]

I am just interested to know what people think and I also understand the barriers we have. Colonizing is not the right word to represent this but maybe just be part of a discussion and have a say since we live here, we have family here and most importantly we spend money here. This is just my thought!

[Morakot]

Well, I find that most things I would like to see changed many Thai people would like to see changed too. Especially, if you are supporting or contributing to an already existing momentum that tends to be welcome by many people and is probably seen as logical as one who lives here has a stake in it.

Edited March 23, 2013 by Morakot

[hellodolly]

I am just interested to know what people think and I also understand the barriers we have. Colonizing is not the right word to represent this but maybe just be part of a discussion and have a say since we live here, we have family here and most importantly we spend money here. This is just my thought!

Pretty much my feelings also.

I live here by choice not out of financial need this is my home I have a family here and I would like to feel that it will always be a part of my life not just people I am close to who live in a country I can not live in. I in all ways qualify for their retirement visa and have no problem with that it is the other unforeseen things that could happen.

My common sense tells me that they know I have a minimum of 65,000 baht a month and they for sure do not want to lose that. Yet I still fear some thing coming out of the blue. As I said maybe I read to much Thai Visa.

[muchogra]

OP, before I say anything, I would like you to accept my apology if I may be offending you with what I think. Here's what I think:

I think Thailand is changing too fast particularly in the past 20 years or so.

How has it changed?

It's gotten too Westernized too quickly without first learning responsibility and accountability. Add on that is the inherent chracter of greediness which is characteristic in this part of the world. People here, the Westernized ones, capitaliize on it in the name of "democracy" and "liberty" to earn their place of power in the society and they affect the genral mass, which is irreversible, thereby, destroying the culture, and ridding them off what I call togetherness, family values, friendship, and the values of living to be abe to be happy, trueful, and be content which they formerly have. Happiness index goes down when it gets more Westernized. The measure of living standard, as claimed by saviours, to bring "poor" people to their own standards is just myth in their own mind!...Let me ask. Why have you left your advanced countries? I'm sure there are reasons but you have not questioned yourself yet!..Nothing is perfect and don't entertain the idea that what you have escaped from is better!

[muchogra]

I read my post above and I'm afriad that I may be construed by some as one who's not on the side of righteousness!

I want to say that we should maintain our Western values by speaking out and participating against injustice like the recent thread about the "music hooligans", but I'm against about demanding the democracy and liberty like those in the West!

[tropico]

I read my post above and I'm afriad that I may be construed by some as one who's not on the side of righteousness!

I want to say that we should maintain our Western values by speaking out and participating against injustice like the recent thread about the "music hooligans", but I'm against about demanding the democracy and liberty like those in the West!

I understand your point and again I am not here to westernize anybody but be able to have a say on issues that involve myself as well. I am here for work and because I like those Thai features you mention in your post and I firmly believe that where I come from doesn't have to be necessarily better in everything. I am only saying that I'd like to have a say on the things that affect myself as well. I know I do not have much choices and I would be always no more than a tourist here but in reality I do live here and I experience the problems that locals have, even though I see it differently because of my backgrounds.

[stuartd1]

The people on OurChiangMai.com seem to be trying to influence things.

[LarryBird]

I think change has to come within. Interesting topic, although I would expect this to turn into the typical idiotic TV discussion, though. We probably can't all agree on the fact that the air pollution right now is a tragedy, so, how far can we get?

I think a way to affect change is through direct marketing. Generate funds to pay for some good commercials and print media. Get the word out there.. It might take a while, but these things work.

[tornado24]

The che guevara of 21st century!

[Ned]

Leave as little footprint as possible I say. Dump this missionary mentality and don't annoy anyone if you can help it.

A lot of people would throw us out if they had the power.

[ARISTIDE]

There is a Music in the garden at Suen bowk had. They are interested in improving the Park and all farangs are welcome to join listening to free music. every sunday afternoon

involvement of foreigners in actively change the things they don't like or they perceive not adequate in Chiang mai

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

all expats play a vital and irreplaceable role in Thailand.

When something goes wrong they can be blamed for all ills.

American GI's caused prostitution

Korean BBQ's cause the air pollution

Obesity caused by western foods

Hold your head high expats.... You and only you can insulate Thailand from reality.

[BookMan]

I'm not sure Thai people in Chiang Mai would respond well to having foreigners openly trying to change or tweak things. I also don’t think that resistance would be limited to Chiang Mai, unlikely any populace in the world would welcome involvement from outsiders.

Whether or not the contribution is small, unless asked, it is probably not welcome.

I agree that when something directly affects you, and there seems obvious better ways to do it, it can be frustrating, but the natural human state is against accepting advice from outsiders.

I would go as far to say that the average citizen joe has limited ability to change much about government bureaucracy and procedures, one of the main gripes on TV.

On a micro level I do believe that change can be affected and thinking influenced to a great extent, but with longer term results.

[ARISTIDE]

Seriously? All Thai will want farangs contributions to improve Chiang Mai, particularly improvement of Suen Bowk Hard park! The free concert on Sunday at the park is a volunteer group trying to get people together. Imagine some farangs and Thai helping improving our city's!

Whether or not the contribution is small, unless asked, it is probably not welcome.

[ramrod711]

Many things have changed here, smart Thais look to see what we want to buy and sell it to us. Items that were only available at Kasems years ago are widely available now. Home improvement items that were unavailable at all are now quite common and every type of restaurant is here. Not all change is for the best, but my wife and her family are living a life that they could only dream of. I suppose the change I would like to see is a different attitude toward farangs in general, we aren't all here to get drunk and have sex with as many women as possible.

[tropico]

I just throw it there .......anyone interested in meeting up and continue this topic face to face?

To be honest I do not know a lot of people and It would be good to meet others and discuss about various things that are of common interest and it does not necessarily means talk only about problems!

[I Like Thai]

[Dante99]

"I Colonizing is not the right word to represent this but ........ most importantly we spend money here."

money, money, money, lovely attitude much appreciated

[tropico]

"I Colonizing is not the right word to represent this but ........ most importantly we spend money here."

money, money, money, lovely attitude much appreciated

What I meant is that we are living our life here like we would anywhere else and of course contribute to the economy. I thought that maybe we should be able to contribute to more than just the economy

[endure]

Whenever I see a thread like this I always wonder how posters might feel if a foreigner pitched up in their town and started to tell them all the things that they were doing wrong and suggesting changes that would be beneficial to that foreigner.

[tropico]

Whenever I see a thread like this I always wonder how posters might feel if a foreigner pitched up in their town and started to tell them all the things that they were doing wrong and suggesting changes that would be beneficial to that foreigner.

Ok, maybe I am not making myself clear. I do not want to say to Thai people how to live in their country and neither ask for changes that would be beneficial only to foreigners. But I just asked what people thought about being part of a dialog that involved us as well.

[hellodolly]

Many things have changed here, smart Thais look to see what we want to buy and sell it to us. Items that were only available at Kasems years ago are widely available now. Home improvement items that were unavailable at all are now quite common and every type of restaurant is here. Not all change is for the best, but my wife and her family are living a life that they could only dream of. I suppose the change I would like to see is a different attitude toward farangs in general, we aren't all here to get drunk and have sex with as many women as possible.

I concur with you on the family issue. It gives me a sense of satisfaction to help improve another life even if I never see the end results.

When the wife and I first got together we had are differences about money. Part of it involved me accepting that it was their country. Well we came to mutually acceptable terms. For myself it was not worth the time she put into working so i gave her enough + money to help her family. Through it all she was told that when a family member needed money for schooling she was to not hesitate coming to me for it. I may never live to see the change but I feel good knowing I could first hand help out.

In return I get a loving wife and a life I never dreamed of before. As far as I am concerned there could be a lot of changes but what am I doing to bring them about. It begins at home.

Edited March 24, 2013 by hellodolly

[Chicog]

Permanent residents generally wish to remind you how good it used to be years ago.

Contribute to change?

[LarryBird]

If someone came to my country and said 'we used to have the same problem in our country with X.... To fix it, we did this..........." I don't see how I could have a problem with that... Littering would be a good example.. America used to have a problem with this.. The country did some things to fix it, now for the most part, there isn't trash on the side of every road.. (Of course some TV cynic genius will point out some form of pollution, which is irrelevant)..

If the same light, if someone told me, their country had a problem with school shootings, and they took certain measures to improve the issue, I would listen.

I think you can help on things that are clear cut problems, and the average citizen would be willing to listen.. If you're out on the streets thumping away about how Thailand should handle boarder issues and such things, they'd probably tell you to buzz off..

Just my 2 cents.

[puukao]

To promote change, it can important to both speak the language fluently and understand their culture. If you have a product, and not just an idea, then you can show them and possibly manufacture this product in their country (so they make more money). For example, a product that helps filter water, or recycles food/trash, etc....Then they can see the value.

If, in America, an Hispanic (30% of the country is Hispanic, or some large percentage) offers a viewpoint, it is generally not accepted well. But an Hispanic-made product should be looked at with an open mind would look and judge the product on merit alone. I would, and I do. Times are changing, and others are given much more of a voice than in the past (blacks and women, for example), but I think people need to see and feel this new product that might evoke chance in their home country.

anyhow, that's my view.

[hellodolly]

If someone came to my country and said 'we used to have the same problem in our country with X.... To fix it, we did this..........." I don't see how I could have a problem with that... Littering would be a good example.. America used to have a problem with this.. The country did some things to fix it, now for the most part, there isn't trash on the side of every road.. (Of course some TV cynic genius will point out some form of pollution, which is irrelevant)..

If the same light, if someone told me, their country had a problem with school shootings, and they took certain measures to improve the issue, I would listen.

I think you can help on things that are clear cut problems, and the average citizen would be willing to listen.. If you're out on the streets thumping away about how Thailand should handle boarder issues and such things, they'd probably tell you to buzz off..

Just my 2 cents.

Depends on what you call a clear cut problem.

I think the whole school system is a clear cut problem.

All I can do is try to help those close to me.

[scorecard]

I'm not sure Thai people in Chiang Mai would respond well to having foreigners openly trying to change or tweak things. I also don’t think that resistance would be limited to Chiang Mai, unlikely any populace in the world would welcome involvement from outsiders.

Whether or not the contribution is small, unless asked, it is probably not welcome.

I agree that when something directly affects you, and there seems obvious better ways to do it, it can be frustrating, but the natural human state is against accepting advice from outsiders.

I would go as far to say that the average citizen joe has limited ability to change much about government bureaucracy and procedures, one of the main gripes on TV.

On a micro level I do believe that change can be affected and thinking influenced to a great extent, but with longer term results.

Sorry but I don't believe that the total monthly / yearly of farangs living in Chiang Mai is all that big in comparison to the actual local economy and the cash, investment etc., that it produces.